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Popular Vote... Should it matter????
Should super delegates, turn over the will of the people and crown someone the winner without winning the popular vote??? Ask yourself that.
Hillary Clinton believes that after the primary's in Puerto Rico, Montana and South Dakota are finished and the delegates from michigan and florida are included.... she will be winning the popular vote in all 6 tallies that are outlined by RCP.com..... If she is winning the popular vote in all 6 tallies, what should the super delegates do??? Should they over turn the will of the people???
As of May 30, 2008 here are the lastest popular vote tallies in all six outcomes.....
1. Popular vote which does not included michigan or florida nor does it included the caucues results...... Obama: 49.1% to Clinton 47.7%
2. Popular vote which includes all caucues , however does not included michigan and florida results.... Obama: 49.1% to Clinton 47.5%
3. Popular vote which includes florida, however does not included michigan or caucues results.... Obama: 48.3% to Clinton 47.8%
4. Popular vote which includes florida and caucues results, however does not include Michigan.... Obama: 48.3% to Clinton 47.6%
5. Popular vote which includes florida and michigan, however does not include caucues results...Clinton: 47.9% to Obama 47.5%
6. Popular vote which includes florida, michigan and all caucues results.... Clinton: 47.9% to Obama 47.6%
The 6 tallies do not included montana, south dakota or puerto rico, because they haven't voted yet.
If Hillary Clinton truly does win the popular vote under all six tallies...... should she be crown the winner at the convention????
That is something to think about.....
Are we really willing to turn over the will of the people and make barack obama the winner, just because he won more pleged delegates?? I hope not.
GO HILLARY!!!!!
Comments (23)
I just want to let everybody know, for historical reference, that May 30 was the day Joan of Arc was burned at the stake.
I just automatically think of May 30 as Joan of Arc Burning on a Stake Day, in case that ever pops up in conversation and it seems inexplicable or inappropriate to you.
That's just how I remember it's May 30.
So don't freak out or make a big deal out of it if I bring it up.
May 30, 2008 1:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think Puerto Rico should count for triple votes in the primary since they don't actually get to vote for President in the general election.
May 30, 2008 1:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well hold on a moment. This is a juicy one. If the popular vote should be determinative in American elections, Bill Clinton would never have been President. What to say?
May 30, 2008 1:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ok, but doesn't that kinda screw over all the caucus states. And do you really think Michigan can be valid if the only major candidate on the ballot was hillary?
Really, it is time to just let it go. She ran a close race, but she came in second, which means she lost. She lost way back at the end of february, she had a string of losses she could not recover from, and if she did listen to all those people telling her to drop out, she would be in the same position she is now, except with dignity and 12 million extra dollars in the bank, and Obama would be out consolidating the party and crushing McCain.
May 30, 2008 1:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
RE.....
Hillary Clinton will likely win the popular vote under all 6 tallies that are listed on RCP.com
so lets look at tally number 2......
Popular vote which includes all caucues but do not include michigan and florida..... Obama is only winning by 1.6% of the vote.... that is less than 2%...... Hillary will likely catch up and by pass him after puerto rico, montana and south dakota vote.... even if he was to win montana and south dakota, she will have won lots of votes from puerto rico to keep her above the numbers.
May 30, 2008 1:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's only true if you don't give Obama the uncommitted popular vote from MI. Read the footnote.
May 30, 2008 9:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, and you're greatly overestimating the size of Puerto Rico.
May 30, 2008 9:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
And for those of you who will say that we know have estimates of the vote total in caucues and that Obama's name was not on the ballot in michigan.....well...... Even if you were to give him extra votes..... she would still likely win the popular vote by June 3rd.
May 30, 2008 1:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is something to not think about.
Delegates, delegates, delegates. Win more delegates, that's the rule. So stick to the rules and win more delegates.
Clinton knew that, just like Obama. Or, maybe, she didn't, but cluelessness is not an excuse here.
Obama's got more pledged delegates and more superdelegates, so he's got more delegates. So he wins. It's that simple.
May 30, 2008 1:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
the will of the people should not be over turned just because someone has more pleged delegates.
May 30, 2008 1:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
The way you're calculating it is the only way to give Hillary an edge, but the way you're calculating it has nothing to do with "the will of the people.
The difference between caucuses and primaries is one reason.
The fact that the will of many voters in Michigan was to support Obama, and they turned out in spite of their candidate not being on the ballot. But Hillary doesn't want to take the will of those people into account.
Etc., etc., etc. It's smoke and mirrors, and the superdelegates aren't stupid.
May 30, 2008 2:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Keep saying it to yourself sweetie, and eventually the men in the white suits will come pick you up.
May 30, 2008 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Pledged delegates is the will of the people.
May 30, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are beyond hope for now.
I would recomend tequila, xanax, adam sandler comedys, hot pockets and a dark room for the next few weeks. No computer for you, you just need to work some things out. Come on back around June 15th, I think you will find that even though Hillary has dropped out, the world has not ended.
May 30, 2008 1:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually the problem with counting MI in any sence for popular vote is because we know the vast majority of those voting undecided wanted to vote for Obama. All those people would be disenfranchised.
Also the polls have been showing that se will lose the last two states haven't they? Or am I wrong?
Also Puerto Rico should not really count towards popular if they cannot vote in the general.
Finally you may have a point if she can take all six.
However I believe that in order to really make that claim she has to be able to make it while counting at least 80% of the uncommitted votes in MI going to Obama, which is more then fair because if you look at the vote tallies from other states he pulled more then that split Vs the other candidates not including Clinton.
These people prefered to throw there vote in the toilette then to vote for Clinton, they need to be counted in some form. I am sure if you asked them they would say the same. They made the uncommited vote for a reason.
May 30, 2008 2:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Also Puerto Rico should not really count towards popular if they cannot vote in the general. Finally you may have a point if she can take all six.
The claim that she could take all six is completely dependent on two things:
(1) not counting any of the "uncommitted" votes in Michigan for Obama, even though it's clear that some large percentage of those votes were by voters who preferred Obama over Hillary and turned out to vote even though their candidate's name wasn't on the ballot, and
(2) a huge turnout in Puerto Rico with Hillary winning by a significant margin.
Without both of these, Hillary won't "take all six".
The first is sufficient to make clear that when Hillary talks about the "popular vote" she doesn't actually imagine that it has anything to do with voter preferences. It's yet another word game from the Clintons.
And the second is, as you say, a bit problematic because Puerto Rico can't vote in the general election.
Somehow I don't think the superdelegates will be convinced.
May 30, 2008 2:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. If you give him even a quarter of the unc. votes in Michigan, he's ahead.
And the superdelegates know this.
May 30, 2008 8:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are delusional. She has lost, pure and simple. Get over it and move on!
May 30, 2008 2:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is a reason the popular vote doesn’t determine the Democratic nominee: caucuses. Simply because Senator Clinton wants to dismiss the caucuses as insignificant or undemocratic doesn’t mean it’s true or an opinion held by other Party members.
Furthermore, calculating the popular vote in this primary can’t be done with a shred of validity.
There is no way to determine what the outcome of FL and MI would have been if the states followed the rules and candidates campaigned. And, what about people who didn’t vote because they believed the primary wouldn’t count?
The MI situation presents an even greater challenge, if not impossibility, when trying to calculate the popular vote. Everyone knows that Obama was not on the ballot. Despite arguments that blame Obama for removing his name or assert that Obama had nefarious reasons for removing his name, none of those argument matter. He removed his name from a ballot in a state that was not supposed to count.
It has to be considered that many Obama voters did not go to the polls because his name wasn’t on the ballot. Some voters stayed home because the primary was considered a beauty contest. Then, there may have been confused voters who voted for Hillary Clinton because she was the only recognizable name on the ballot. There are strong arguments to support voter suppression in MI.
In the end, this was a delegate contest, and both contenders knew the game. Now that Hillary Clinton lost the delegate contest doesn’t mean she can make up her own rules and metric to win.
This isn’t Putin's Russia.
May 30, 2008 3:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
A lot of "IFs" from the original post. If my wife had balls, she'd be me.
What should count is who wins playing by the rules. Attracting super-delegates is part of the rules so the Hillary camp has every right to make whatever silly arguments they want. But, make no mistake - they're pretty silly. When everyone agrees not to contest the very early Michigan and Florida primaries and Hillary wins primarily because of name recognition, those states shouldn't count and shouldn't matter. I think the party knows that to give them any real power in the process would invite anarchy in 2012, so they'll seat 'em and let 'em drink too much at the convention, but not in a way that will influence the outcome. And, frankly, including Michigan or Florida in the popular vote totals is just another silly argument.
Silly arguments are fine to make, but they almost never carry the day. Hillary08 is a screen name you might wanna think about changing soon - it's not gonna happen. It's been reasonably clear since Wisconsin and abundantly clear since NC/Indiana.
May 30, 2008 5:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please stop enabling HillaryClinton08. Her ranting and raving does not deserve a coherent reply.
May 30, 2008 5:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
The popular vote only has meaning in Hillaryland...
May 30, 2008 7:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please give Hillary the hook.
Can't wait till this time next week, hopefully we'll be talking GE and forgetting all about Hill and Bill.
Superdels step up next week and do your jobs please.
May 30, 2008 7:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
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