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Pfleger Was Wrong and Owes Hillary a Public Apology
I continue to support Barack Obama, but what's right is right. Much as it pains me to defend a woman who repeatedly has manipulated sympathies of gender and race throughout this campaign, basic intellectual honesty compels me to side with her on this one.
Father Pfleger's now-famous remarks in a guest sermon at Obama's Trinity United Church of Christ were out of line. (You look them up. I'm too tired.) Pfleger spoke in terms that were racist, sexist and ignorant. He acted every bit as much the fool as Rev. Wright did before the National Press Club. What's worse, Pfleger's point was purely political, purely without redeeming merit and purely designed to play to the house, those faithful who have endured Hillary's own style of insult, months of media caricaturizations and anonymous death threats. They were ripe for a little anger, and Pfleger happily, blithely, unthinkingly supplied the bread and circuses of division that have become the staple of this primary campaign.
No candidate deserves a public roasting, especially at the hands of a daft and earnest clergyman. Hillary didn't deserve it. If anything (and church is not the place), she deserves only a fair critique. She deserves credit for being human and having run a helluva campaign.
Hilary wasn't the only one who got the short end of Pfleger's sharp stick. Trinity didn't deserve to have its pencil-sketch caricature made into a perverse Norman Rockwell painting, but the image may endure just as indelibly, now that another pastor has washed that congregation in the pastels of fury and resentment.
Obama didn't deserve it. His ability to take the high road, more often than not anyway, should have been an inspiration and example for those he knows personally. It should not have been an excuse to counter-attack Clinton in a low and despicable use of mockery and oversimplification.
If we Obama supporters are to believe that our cause is just, that our candidate is superior and that our vision of the future is deserved, we have to stop making excuses for those who tarnish all that we and Obama say we stand for. We cannot suffer fools in our midst to erode the basis of our claims. Just as Wright before him, Pfleger has hurt Obama's chances to fully unify the party and to fully earn the trust of the total American electorate. Pfleger doesn't add to Obama's Wright problem; he compounds it.
It is Pfleger — not Obama — who owes Hillary an apology. But Obama might want to think about apologizing, as well — if not for the vicious remarks, then for his propensity for keeping poor company.



Comments (94)
Pfleger did apologize. In fact I think he used the same construction Hillary used when she didn't apologize for wishing (in effect, we know what she meant and it wasn't a calendar reference) that Obama got whacked in June in California.
"So if anyone was offended by the comedy stylings of Father Pfleger, he apologizes and so do we, the proprietors of "Pun and Games: Showtime at the Trinity." Father Pfleger will be here all weekend long. Please tip your ushers."
May 30, 2008 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can see it now: the Reverends of Irreverence Comedy Tour starring Reverends Wright and Pfleger. Maybe they can do some new material, not that the classics ever get old- “Goddamn (white) America, Bill rode us dirty like Monica, A black man stole my show.” Obama could occasionally pop in with a surprise visit and crack a couple of jokes about “typical white people” (“If you’re white- you may be redneck”). I’d probably avoid the Deep South though. Hillary’s hoped-for assassins may be out there.
May 31, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Typical Obama supporter tendency to attribute the worst possible motives to anyone who opposes him when excusing monstrous actions of their own partisans.
Obama has remarkably poor judgment in choosing mentors. Pfleger was cited as a moral compass by Obama to Chatherine Falsani of the Sun Times in 2005 I think it was. They are friends of twenty years standing.
Obama needs to denounce the slanders contained in Pfleger's remarks. These apologies for whatever portion of my supporter's statements which may offend you are dodges -- those who agree with the slanders get to believe that Obama secretly agrees with them while those who are offended get to believe that Obama disagrees with them.
Pfleger is the guy Obama went to when he disinvited Wright to the invocation. What a depth of bench.
May 31, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Blaming Obama for this -- Hillary has gall like I've never seen it.
That being said, Pfleger was over the line, he apologized for it, and Obama had nothing to do with it.
As opposed to Hillary making a declarative statement about assassination. Pausing. Making another statement. Never noticing (or caring) about the abject offensiveness of her words. After 35 years of "experience" Hillary doesn't think it's a problem to bring up assassination when speaking about her primary battle with the first viable black candidate. Unbelievable.
Jeremiah Wright, Fr. Pfleger -- have never represented Barack's beliefs. There has never been anything, ever, remotely linking those beliefs with his. Obama's responsible for a poor taste mocking when he had nothing to do with it. But Hillary has no trouble taking the stage after a union leader insulted and demeaned and mocked Obama and all of his supporters in Ohio the night Obama won WI and Hawaii. No denunciation, no rebuke. She walked out on the stage and took applause.
If Hillary doesn't have to apologize for what comes out of her own mouth then Obama doesn't have to apologize for Fr. Pfleger.
May 30, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
The unfortunate truth is that while Hillary's RFK remark could be taken innocuously, there is no wiggle room in Pfleger's. I'm glad to hear he apologized (did not know that) but the two are not equivalent, either in length or in absolute meaning. And I'm one who took Hillary to task for hers.
May 30, 2008 10:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damned HTML tags.
May 30, 2008 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I regret the words I chose on Sunday," he said. "These words are inconsistent with Senator Obama's life and message, and I am deeply sorry if they offended Senator Clinton or anyone else who saw them."
Pfleger Apology
I must say I found Pfleger's performance way more offensive than Wright's. Pfleger seemed to be patronizingly affecting a stereotypical dialect and style, much as Senator Clinton did in Selma some months back.
May 30, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have watched the Pfleger performance several times short snippets delivered by the MSM and the longer "raw" version.
I must admit, that try as I might, I could not refrain from laughing out loud.
Unfortunately, in all of the brouhaha over the remarks, the larger truths he was speaking about will be missed: entitlement, resentment and privilege.
May 30, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Conversely, the points Hillary and McCain have been making are only reinforced by such stupid, errant performances on the part of those who Obama is associated with.
May 30, 2008 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
He may as well have said I'm sorry that Senator Clinton's such a Raving Harpy Monster Bitch from Hell.
May 31, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
sigh This is so very depressing: the timing was appalling, bringing home to the superdelegates just how much damage his membership of this church can do to Obama and the Democratic party between now and the fall.
I am now so sceptical of these black liberation theology clergyman. Pfleger's attack was so much worse than the brief clip most of the networks have shown. Van Sustern showed a much longer version where the attack was broader than Clinton: white supremacist going on about entitlement. But the worst thing about it was that Pfleger knew exactly what impact his performance was going to have: he said it - it would be looped.
These people's entire empire is grounded in black victimology: they have no vested interest in an African American being elected president: it undermines their whole raison d'etre.
What worries me most is that I think Obama still doesn't really get it. He wants to be President of an inclusive America but continuing membership of this church unfortunately now is symbolic of the exact opposite.
If he wants the nomination, to be entitled to the nomination through a majority of all delegates, he has to demonstrate that he understands this: he has to leave the church, citing how much he respects and values their charitable work and saying he will always donate to that but that in good conscience he can't remain a member while they're preaching such divisive and flagrantly unAmerican political propaganda.
May 30, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
In a word: No.
Pfleger can apologize after we get some apologies from the race-baiting smear-mongering Clinton thugs get around to doing it. (The Judas, the Jesse Jackson, the muslim emails from staffers, the cheating and lying, Ferraro ...)
Hillary's still scheming and smearing as we speak. She invoked her apparent hope that Obama might be killed just last week.
The Clinton's never apoligize. They deserve all the scorn they get.
Until then, I say "Pfleger didn't make any offensive remarks ... not that I know of".
May 30, 2008 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I understand the anger, but two wrongs don't make a right. The second wrong only undercuts Obama's message. We should be above that, especially now that the nomination is nearly won.
May 30, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
One example of Clinton -- or her surrogates -- race baiting. Do you have it? Just one exaple of a statement, made by Hillary or anyone representing her -- that can have no other interprtating than to be race baiting. One example of them sayng something negative about African Americans. Do you have one?
You don't have one, and you know it.
Unity and change my ass.
May 31, 2008 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
hardworking white Americans
May 31, 2008 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Count me among those who view Pfleger as a cretin.
May 31, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fr. Pfleger spoke truth to power...and was hilarious exposing what many of us suspect are the Clinton's true feelings about this election.
May 31, 2008 12:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I was reminded by another commenter (another thread) that Clinton herself has mocked Obama -- repeatedly. She would be hypocritical to complain about someone mocking her.
May 31, 2008 12:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
You mean how the sky will open up and celestial choirs will sing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pPV1yd7sQg
That doesn't count because, see, that was Hillary.
I DO think Pflegar was wrong, AND that his timing was horrendous--with friends like these, Obama may not need enemies. But still. I agree that Clinton's being a tad hypocritical here.
May 31, 2008 3:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Fr. Pfleger spoke truth to power...and was hilarious exposing what many of us suspect are the Clinton's true feelings about this election."
And will you still be laughing if superdelegates move over en masse to Clinton because more than anything they believe it's their moral duty to elect a nominee who can win the general and they decide that, with friends like Wright and Pfleger out there sending up and abusing some of the things that the majority of Americans most hold dear, Obama is odds on to lose it?
(Or have you missed that Pfleger's main theme was not Clinton, but rather white supremacy and entitlement, and especially restitution?
And have you missed that the right wing talk show hosts & Hannity et al are creaming themselves reminding everyone that Obama himself said that Pfleger was for him `a moral compass`)
May 31, 2008 3:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, Fran, they missed all of those things because Clinton rage makes them feel alive.
May 31, 2008 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just like Rev Wright - and you see what happens when someone does speak truth to power.
The person is mocked and/or excoriated -
I agree with you.
May 31, 2008 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am a Hillary Hater from before this election and I think Pfleger behaved as an unmitigated ass. The sort of rantings he did hurt the candidate he wishes to help. It is immaterial that his comments were factual. We are not required by any set of reasonable ethical standards to say everything that is true. We are required to refrain from lying but silence and tact are also required. He was not speaking truth to power. She is not in power anymore. He was rubbing salt in the wounds of one who has lost and that is just plain assinine unsportsmanlike conduct. Hillary is showing us how to be a poor loser but being a poor winner is even worse.
May 31, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Larry, thanks for this. You've made the point better than I have in my post or throughout this thread.
May 31, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Silence and tact have gotten this country really far these past eight years.
May 31, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Timing is everything.
May 31, 2008 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow! you said that so much better and more concisely than I did.
May 31, 2008 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
That has not one thing to do with helping Sen Obama to win this election. There is a difference between speaking truth to power by attacking ones political enemies and pissing off ones potential political allis. Nov 5 everybody can go back to ranting against whitey as much as they want but for now the first black man with a shot at the Whitehouse needs whitey's vote.
May 31, 2008 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ditto
May 31, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Ripper McCord, for inviting all the trolls to a little tea party.
May 31, 2008 1:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why, do you have friends coming?
May 31, 2008 1:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ha! One just showed up.
May 31, 2008 1:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did someone say "party"?
May 31, 2008 8:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jesus Babbling Christ. More faux outrage. Enough with the apologizing already. This is a battle for the White House and ending a goddamn war where people are dying. When Hillary Clinton apologizes for the deaths of 4000+ Americans and scores of thousands of dead Iraqis we can talk. Until then I don't want to hear more of this outrage over sermons at a church.
May 31, 2008 8:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Right, the Iraq War is Hillary's fault.
May 31, 2008 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly.
The faux outrage is wearing me out - are people really so sensitive that they can't stand to hear a little truth about themselves and have to go ballistic on the person who says it - mainly cause they don't like they way they said it?
This is stupid and I'm sick of this church being attacked. There is a constitutional provision that gives this church absolute freedom to teach whatever the fuck it wants to - this is AMERICA and I've heard enough from the religious right to know that this whole thing is just a pile of stinking crap.
Leave Obama's church alone, goddamn it!
May 31, 2008 11:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am not one to be "faux outraged" about anything. There is nothing fake or phony about my disappointment. Neither am I outraged.
If your sentiments were enough to win the election, that might be one thing. But public sentiment does not mirror yours just because you wish it would.
Obama's church needs to respect the separation of church and state and federal laws requiring churches to be silent on individual candidates. Had Obama's church respected this federal law, it would not be under IRS investigation, the headlines would not be trumpeting this pastor disaster, and you would not be sick of hearing about it.
May 31, 2008 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
The line from the movie Unforgiven is most apt for this post and the endless fawning over poor Hillary (she of the 'enough with the speeches and big rallies' line).Hillary has played the game as hard as she possibly can so she can complain about nothing:
as the corrupt Marshall is about to die he says
"I dont deserve this " and Eastwood's character replies:
"deserve's got nothing to do with it"
May 31, 2008 9:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. Deep.
May 31, 2008 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's what he said.
May 31, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Jesus Babbling Christ. More faux outrage. Enough with the apologizing already. This is a battle for the White House and ending a goddamn war where people are dying. When Hillary Clinton apologizes for the deaths of 4000+ Americans and scores of thousands of dead Iraqis we can talk. Until then I don't want to hear more of this outrage over sermons at a church."
Amen, bro'.
By the way Fran, I've been black my entire life and you want to lecture ME on white entitlement? How Clintonesque.
May 31, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Goldspinner, Fran is an Obama supporter, as I am. No need to hurl "Clintonesque" at anyone. Fran isn't lecturing you. She makes a valid point about public perceptions and losing votes.
May 31, 2008 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Ripper
May 31, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Goldspinner, I'm sorry I hit a raw nerve for you.
Please understand that the reason I'm so upset with Obama's church is that I want him to win. I want him to win for black people, fur white people, people of every possible hue, for the world because we've had 8 years of the neocons, and we don't need 8 years of `obliterate Iran`.
I watch Fox sometimes (as much as I can stomach) just to find out what people out there are hearing.
They are massacring Obama. Every day. It's Hannity's cause celebre, but not just Hannity's. The others I suspect are more powerful because they bring a tad more subtlety to their efforts.
Check out Obama's favourability ratings now cf where they were before Wright erupted.
We need the majority of people in swingable states to believe that he will be a President for all Americans, not that he is a closet extreme left winger whose `moral compass` is Pfleger, and whose best friends are people like Wright, Ayers, Rezko.
Again, I'm sorry that I hit a raw nerve with you.
May 31, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
This really is NOT about whether Hillary has been divisive and racist and sexist and eats children. What it IS about is Obama and those of us who support him becoming identified with racism, sexism and hatred of the kind spewed by the Wrights and Pflegers that Obama has sought "guidance" from.
I am sorely disappointed that many of my fellow Obama supporters have come to see Hillary as nothing more than the object of their daily Two-Minute Hate. Get a life, please.
Or forget Hillary for one moment, and ask yourself if these displays help or hurt Obama. Does his base — do YOU — really NEED that kind of whipping up into frenzied bloodlust to support Obama? Will those clips hurt him when used in the political ads against him?
Aren't we just as low as Hillary if our answer to mockery and old-style politics is just: "Yeah, but WE'RE the good guys. Get it?"
May 31, 2008 10:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Racist? Sexist? Fr. Pfleger told the TRUTH in a preaching context that most of us African-Americans understand and support. "Displays"? "Whipping up into frenzied bloodlust"? You haven't been to many black churches, have you?
May 31, 2008 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Father Pfleger couched his narrative of Hillary's defeat in terms of race and gender. That much is clear to most of the world, if not to you. And all of it was over the top, mocking, and absolutely excessive, given that party unity is required now, not beating a dead horse or burning Hillary in effigy. And don't presume to know where I've attended church.
May 31, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
So the fuck what? There is absolutely guaranteed Freedom of Religion in this country, no matter what the belief is.
And there is Freedom of Speech.
Now shut up about this church, dammit. If you can't handle dissent then you're in the wrong fucking country.
May 31, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
And that has what to do with winning an election?
May 31, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
If they had been to this or another black church, none of this would be happening - this is the lowest attack I've ever seen - this continuing war on this church. It's just wrong.
Everything about it is wrong.
May 31, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Now shut up about this church, dammit. If you can't handle dissent then you're in the wrong fucking country."
Do you not see the irony here?
May 31, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, I don't. You cannot set up that kind of trap, Ripper.
That's not what that was and I won't let you try to spring this on me - I'm not stupid.
The church is protected by the constitution and so is any fool thing you want to say about it. But you and I both know that there is a big difference here - or at least you should.
What happens in that church has nothing to do with Obama the candidate. Nothing. And it is really no one's business but the church's. All this bullshit is nothing more than more faux outrage from a bunch of people who do not know what the hell they are trying to talk about.
You want to keep making as ass of yourself in front of people who do know what the hell they are talking about? Go right ahead.
This is the lowest, stupidest, most irrelevant fucking attack I've ever seen grow and take legs and walk around and thanks so much for keeping this going so that every single person who's never so much as set foot inside a Universalist Church of Christ or a predominantly African American church can look like the idiot they are.
May 31, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
HusseinTenaX,
Please read my post more carefully. Regardless of your name-calling, I'm not attacking Obama's church. Far from it. I am merely denouncing those who preach hatred on behalf of Obama. It's hard to divorce the Wrights and Pflegers from Obama as easily as you think when the public simply won't do that. The remedy is not to refrain from criticizing the bombast, but to refrain the bombast itself.
I have to agree with Larry Geater's post below on when and why the remarks from Wright became indefensible. But since you call my regard for the congregation into question, here is the email from Rev. Wright's daughter I received March 23rd, in response to my original email to her:
We bless God for you, your wife, and your support of this ministry and our pastors. Happy Easter! God bless you!
Jeri
If you can't be free, be a mystery.
On Mar 23, 2008, at 12:33 PM, wrote:
>
> This message was sent from a viewer of Trinity United Church of Christ on 3/23/2008 12:33:07 PM ET.
>
> Viewer comments:
> --------------------------------------------------
> Given the vitriol still being spewed about Rev. Wrights more colorful sermons, I thought it was important for you to know that this white man and his white wife here in St. Louis love and support you all. We are not afraid. We are not turned aside. We know the heart of Rev. Wright, his flock and Illinois favorite son. God bless.
> --------------------------------------------------
May 31, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Only a couple of times. Even living in a black neighborhood there is little call for me to visit a black church since I am an atheist. That has not one damn thing to do with the damage Pfleger's offensive rant does to Sen Obama. He was not speaking to a black church. He was speaking to a national audience. There is a difference. That is why I was OK with what Rev Wright said from the pulpit before Obama was running for office, and thought the attacks on him for that were wrong, but thought his rant at the NAACP was unforgivable. He knew he was speaking to a national audience but spoke like he was only speaking to the room. Pfleger did the same. He knew he was being recorded and that what he said would play before a natioanl audience that was involved in deciding a presidential election. He did not consider that audiences reaction. He did harm to Sen Obama's campaign he now recognizes this and has given a real appology. I think that Sen Obama can over come this one like he did Rev Wright, but if he gets much more 'help' like this from the politicaly tone deaf members of the black clergy you can get ready to spend four years bithching about President McCain and nursing your resentments against the other half of our even more divided society.
May 31, 2008 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Uh?
May 31, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Come on, AdAbsurdum. You know some people demonize her to the point of being sub-human. Read the fucking thread.
May 31, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm trying hard.
May 31, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
If people cannot see that this is nothing more than an attempt to make the UCC look like the Taliban, then I don't know what's going on with liberals anymore.
Have the Republicans fucked everyone's head up so much they think this kind of thing is Ok?
You can't see what is going on here - so you perpetuate it?
Thanks for making this easier for the GOP and McLame, ya idiot.
May 31, 2008 11:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Idiot? Again, stop with the personal attacks. Read my comment above and cool your jets.
May 31, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fr. Pfleger owes no one an apology. He spoke the truth. Hillary's adolescent behavior over the past 2 months would not have happened had she lost to a white male candidate. Her behavior, her racist language, is representative of the old guard feminists... old, middle class and above, damaged white women. The fact remains, Hillary is a loser and is a loser because she is the weak candidate. Her claim to entitlement is repulsive to decent Americans. Americans want change, not just by party, but within the Democratic Party. Decent Democrats understand that the Clintons have harmed the Party and the America... this is why a vast majority of Democrats have voted for Senator Obama and have rejected Hillary Clinton. Decent Democrats do not want to have to apologize for anymore stained blue dresses. Hillary's failure to address Bill's serial cheating has demonstrated her unfitness to lead this country. Hillary's failure to control Bill's runaway mouth over the primary demonstrates her unfitness to lead this country. If she cannot deal with Bill, she sure as hell cannot deal with our international enemies.
May 31, 2008 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
He owes Sen Obama an appology even if he owes one to no one else. He has hurt Obama's campaign. The truth of what he said is irrelevent to that discussion.
May 31, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wouldn't disagree with you...
May 31, 2008 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time to get over the notion that the Clintons are owed anything
May 31, 2008 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
HusseinTenaX,
You're right. This is only a calculated attempt to pull super-delegates from Obama just before the last primaries.
Ripper,
Don't presume that black women don't know REAL racism or sexism when we see it. As I said before: "You haven't been to many black churches, have you?". You should hear the sermons I hear on Sundays. You see, we don't just sit around listening to dry little discourses on salvation. We actually get to hear calls for justice as a necessary part of our faith experience.
Without the liberation theology of the Black Church, where do you think the Civil Rights Movement would have been without those of us who actually had to fear being fire-bombed while we worshipped? Do you know why our churches were targeted? One key reason: voting rights! During this same time period, guess who was an avid "Goldwater Girl" who supported segregation?
Without those of us who made real sacrifices, neither Clinton nor Obama would be running for president. Since I'm not a Democrat, party unity is not my greatest concern. Besides, if the Democratic Party was so unified, you wouldn't have the Florida and Michigan delegate mess to resolve,hmm? What DOES concern me is that Hillary Clinton will use any means to maintain her hold on power by demonizing people who look like me or who support our viewpoints.
You recognized the Pfleuger "text" on entitlement and white supremacy but you missed the entire context of the message. In light of Clinton's coded phrases designed to appeal to her supporters, some of us recognize how dangerous her tactics are to OUR personal health and safety. The Great Panjandrum brought up another critical point. When is Clinton planning on apologizing for the blood on her hands?
May 31, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Goldspinner,
You must have missed the memo after Obama rejected and renounced Reverend Wright but the new party line is that Trinity does not represent all black churches and BLT isn’t the mainstream ideology of the black community.
It was CC’ed to all “Appalachian” voters.
May 31, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Goldspinner, I completely agree with you. There was nothing racist or sexist about the comments. He wasn't mocking Clinton because she's white or because she's a woman; he was mocking her because she's being a poor loser. And, as we've seen throughout the campaign, it seems like part of the reason she's so upset is that she thought being white and Bill's wife would be enough to win.
May 31, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Live by faux outrage, die by faux outrage.
Thanks Ripper, the fact that you see this is encouraging. Let's hope the hyper partisans come around to the understanding that their brand of negative, hateful punditry isn't just hurting Clinton. It's hurting Obama and the whole damn country.
May 31, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oops,I meant "Phleger".
May 31, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, telling the truth about Clinton is "hurting Obama"? Puh-leeze...
May 31, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
What you're doing doesn't have anything to do with the truth.
(shrug)
May 31, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope, I'm just calling out those of you who are petrified that Obama will lose the election if white voters think he's just another "scary black man". I'm waiting for the revelation that his father was a secret Mau Mau.
May 31, 2008 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Translation: Hillary can say/do/insult/threaten whenever and whoever she wants, all with impunity.
This makes her just like George W Bush.
Do we want 4 more years of Bush?
Hell NO.
Father Phleger was speaking in a church to a congregation, not to MSNBC/CBS/ABC etc.
He owes Hillary NOTHING. However he was kind enough to issue an apology for his comedy routine similar in construction/sincerity to Hillary's apology for invoking the assassination of Barack Obama.
We wouldn't even be talking about any of this if Hillary wasn't the wife (in name only) of a former president. She is a mediocre senator who voted to send our troops to a war that never should have happened.
She is Nixon in a pantsuit.
May 31, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you pat yourself on the back for your intellectual honesty as you offer Hillary some backhanded sympathy. Well, all hail to thee, oh honest and noble one! But what you miss is that no one is surprised at the depths to which some Obama supporters will sink. The damage of that video of good father Pfleger's hatefulness wasn't done to Hillary, and it wasn't done by Pfleger. The damage was done to Obama by his fellow parishioners as they cheered approvingly at Pfleger's blatantly racist bilge. As the parishioners shouted "Amen" Pfleger blamed white success and black failure on slavery, and conferred the full weight of it upon all of white America. There was no sense of shock evident in that church as they waved their arms and shouted, "Yes sir!". Clearly those parishioners had heard this kind of rhetoric before, and approved wholeheartedly. Obama can claim he never heard the worst of Jeremiah Wrights's words. Obama can claim he never before heard Pfleger speak. But he can not deny being a part of that congregation that holds such outrageously racist views. So once again the question is what Obama and his family were doing sitting in those same pews for 20 years. You speak of those who tarnish all that Obama stands for. Wake up! It is Obama's fellow parishioners who tarnish Obama's reputation. Obama willingly chose to be one of them and to raise his children among them.
May 31, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Otto,
You don't blame white success and black failure on slavery?
May 31, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wanna know, because I didn't hear that in Obama's church -- I heard it in public school. Maybe you think it's genetic?
May 31, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
And hail right back at thee, dick.
May 31, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Archbishop of Chicago tells Father Pfleger to STFU.
May 31, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like it or not, Obama is trying to secure an election by winning over voters who are unsure or unaware of him. No one gives a shit about Phleger. His life experiences are of no consequence to the voters Obama is trying to appeal to. Phleger owes no one an apology for speaking, whether truthfully or not.
However, if Phleger hopes that Obama gets elected, then he owes Obama a huge apology. Put yourself in the position of the so-called low information voter. (Low information? We elite can certainly condescend.) This voter thinks what? That Obama seems like a nice young man with nice ideas. But who are these crazy people he hangs around with?
As an instance of black liberation theology, there may be merit to Phleger's [performance, perhaps justification, maybe even obligation. But to Obama, that performance is unbelievably stupid.
Pride? Or Obama? Can't have both here.
May 31, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you Ripper. Phleger was stupid, stupid, stupid for making those comments at this point in the campaign. I mean WTF Father? How out of touch can you be?
I think part of the issue is that Obama has liked hanging out with intellectuals and activists who are not politicians and have never concerned themselves with being politic. To me, that's cool, that's a positive character trait. "Stand up for the stupid and the crazy," Walt Whitman said, meaning that the "stupid" and "crazy" often have something of real value to contribute. I like the fact that we've got a politician who gets energized being around more incendiary types.
But as Obama heads into the general election and as he prepares to govern, these folks have to understand that their comments will come to represent him (as unfair as that may be.) They will particularly represent him when they are talking about his political opponents.
Phleger was stupid and reckless in not understanding that he's got a bigger stage now. Its his responsibility either to become more politic or less visible (good luck) over the next 8 years.
May 31, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to take issue with you on this. Pfleger was not stupid "for making those comments at this point in the campaign." Neither is he "out of touch".
This man is totally in touch with what's going on. Lynn Sweet, (Chicago Sun-Times) has pointed out that Pfleger is very experienced with the press - deals with it constantly.
His performance was deliberate - he pointed to the cameras at one point and said that this was going to be looped.
This was sabotage.
These people (Wright, Pfleger, Moss)don't want Obama to succeed. Why would they support a politician who has denounced Farrakhan, their ideological bed-mate whom they're joined at the hip? Why would they continue to support a politician whom they believe has sold them out with his support for Israel? How will their white supremacist arguments survive if America has elected an African American President?
Anyone who thinks this stuff isn't working is deluded. Today Obama's national unfavourability rating has gone up to 53% and is actually higher than Clinton's.
May 31, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are most certainly right.
May 31, 2008 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish people would start paying attention when there's cameras on.
Bottom line is, whites in America do feel entitled. And especially in Appalachia, they don't like it when they are struggling economically and they perceive that black people are getting a helping hand. They lack perspective on the history of racism, obviously, but their situation is no less tough.
I hate the way Hillary's campaign has shifted the goalposts. But she's no racist. Bill's no racist either. They are just blinded by a quest for power. She didn't deserve those comments from the preist. But his larger point isn't false.
May 31, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
He was obviously aware that this was for public consumption because durring his rant he says words to the effect of 'the feed is going out'.
June 1, 2008 8:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I for one am sick and tired of people being so quick to tell Barack Obama when he needs to apologize for unauthorized surrogates speaking out of turn. If Obama had said those remarks then I would be concerned, but he didn't.
If you want every unauthorized surrogate to apologize for speaking or writing things out of turn, then why not start with TPM or CNN or the person or entity of your choice. Enough already!
May 31, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I absolutely agree with you, Ripper ... these comments were way out of line. And I suspect that Sen. Obama was even more sickened than we.
And while I guess it's a good thing the sorta apology is on record, it doesn't suffice - no apology would. Nor, in my opinion, was it addressed to the true victim: Sen Obama.
This was carefully crafted and intentional ........... and I do believe that the intention (conscious or not) was to harm Obama and his chances. Same with Wright’s comment at the press conference not long ago.
These men (Wright and Pfegler) are weird but not dumb -- they have to know who this stuff will hurt. Especially with the timing of Pfegler's 'performance' - right before the DNC committee meet and SDs are (hopefully) going to put an end to it. Gimme a break.
Why? It was speculated on another thread
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/obamas-church-back-in-the-news.php
that this may be personal anger that Obama stepped away from Wright back when he made his announcement – or it may be the fury of people who have power if the country is divided and angry, who won’t be so powerful if Obama succeeds – or it may be simply the overwhelming desire of people who are obviously showmen to have their time in the spotlight.
I don’t know - or particularly care. But let’s call it what it is: a calculated move to injure Sen. Obama’s chance to be come the Dem. nominee and/or to win the election in November. They have given Clinton and the Republicans a more valuable gift than the biggest of the fat-cat donors.
May 31, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Instead of wringing your hands over potential McCain and undecided voters, worry about appeasing the uppity branch of the Democratic Party come August. Some of my favorite superdelegates intend to show up in Denver and TURN THE JOINT OUT when they give Senator Clinton the comeuppance she so richly deserves.
May 31, 2008 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
CNN is reporting that Obama has just resigned from his church.
May 31, 2008 5:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent news.
May 31, 2008 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
That takes care of apologizing for those who are actively sabotaging his run under the guise of mentorship.
May 31, 2008 6:05 PM |