I suppose that someone who says they won't vote for a black for President is reflecting their life experiences. Let me tell you about my life experiences as the relate to white men as Presidents. In my life time I have experienced nothing but white men as Presidents, and I haven't found any of them acceptable. Not a one, from either party. Some have been atrocious (witness the white man we have now). Others have been somewhat less bad, but none have been good. Clinton was somewhat to the right of Dwight Eisenhower, as at least Eisenhower warned us about the military-industrial complex. If I'm not mistaken, he coined the term. So, my conclusion is that I should learn from the past, so I am concluding that white men make bad Presidents. I'll have to vote against them in the future, I suppose. That leaves Cynthia McKinney, I guess, to get my vote if I follow through on this line of reasoning.

"Prosperity builds unity"? Bill Clinton greatly improved the lot of blacks in America, standing up for black causes, decreasing black poverty, increasing black presence at all levels of government including upper executive positions, made 2 historic trips to Africa and his wife another.

Now he's the poster child of racism in the US.

Forget about it, the message is out - no one owes Bill Clinton a thing, and no one will owe anyone else a thing. Gratitude is just another form of racism. Everybody for themselves.

Yet another reason to get rid of the electoral college. Can you imagine a country where every vote counts the same? Rather than a country where one Wyoming vote has as much power as 15 California votes.

I think the only solution for such ingrained racism is through experience that confronts such people with the absurdity of their beliefs. My hope is that the extraordinariness of Obama, as well as an undeniably strong presidency by him (which I anticipate), will cause a wide-scale rethink of people's racially based assumptions.

Bserious, an excellent post.

I digress.

Desidero, I knew you would show up for a post like this one.

Bill Clinton greatly improved the lot of blacks in America, standing up for black causes, decreasing black poverty, increasing black presence at all levels of government including upper executive positions, made 2 historic trips to Africa and his wife another. But he just stop short of an apology at the door of no return.

He could have closed the door of disparity when it comes to sentencing guidelines. The prison rate for black men also greatly increased under Bill Clinton. What's the difference in powder and crack cocaine? It depends on who is using and selling the drug which determines sentences. And please don't confuse this with any endorsement for the use of drugs.

I would have much rather Bill Clinton address the disparity in the prison-industrial-complex, than appoint black people to his cabinet; remember black people supported him more in his need of hour--the Lewinsky fiasco--than white people did according to Charles Blow's article in the New York Times:

Many blacks are aghast that their extraordinary support of Bill Clinton in the past would be repaid by the Clintons with racial innuendo (in a Times/CBS News poll after the salacious 1998 Starr report was released, his unfavorable rating among whites climbed to 52 percent; among blacks it was only 10 percent). Some who stood by him then now apparently feel betrayed.

I am one of those 90% in this article.

I have friends from the south who have often said to me that they prefer the blatant racism that exists in the south to the cool-psuedo understanding of some people in the north. Southern Indiana is also the south.

I drove through Kentucky and Southern Indiana once helping my cousin move. It was an eye opening experience for him. He was up-tight 'til we got to Kansas. We were U-hauling back from Miami to Seattle, and to his surprise we had a wonderful time. I am adept at accents, and I made sure that we didn't stand out, manners and all. As we entered the midwest he became noticably calmer. Then he commented that his trip in the other direction (to Miami) with his wife had not been very nice, and asked me if I knew why this trip was different. My answer, "Because that was the south". He asked, "What's that got to do with anything?" I said, "Because your wife is Japanese." He said, "What's that got to do with anything? Besides she was born here - she's American." I realized he really didnt get it. I finally had to spell it out. "Because your wife isn't white." He still doesn't get it. I always did, I didn't even want to sound like a northerner in some of the places we stopped for gas.

I have always known that "non-college" is code for ignorant. And "hard-working" is code for lower-middle class to poor. When you do not have an education you have very little reason to think that your lot in life is going to change, and it is based on a sense of lack, rather than abundance. When you work from a sense of lack everyone is a potential threat to the limited resources available to you. If you view a group as being as far on the bottom as you, they are a direct threat - competition for what little is available. If they have a chance to get above you, it makes you an even greater failure. It is a recipe that is highly unlikely to bring a great deal of understanding.

It takes an inner strength and self-esteem to actually believe in abundance. It is one of the reasons that I love Obama. The only way for him to combat this is to win with the majority of people who don't think this way. Slowly change the lives of the people who do, and educate their children. Eventually the people who will not grow, or gain in status will die, and their children will have enough education and worldly experience to evolve.

The first black President was always going to face this kind of talk/thought. But once in office, the first black President - who had to be an exceptional candidate just to get there in the first place - will prove worthy and resilient and will help to quell fears of catastrophe in the overactive minds of the fearing.

The first black news anchor was a big deal. So was the first black Mayor and the first black Governor and the first black Senator. No longer. It just has to happen the first time.

I was doing some work for a woman who was much older than me when Doug Wilder was running for Governor of VA.
She made a remark one day that she would never vote for that N_____.
I was stunned. I didn't say a word.
But I went to vote on election day and cast my vote for Wilder like many Virginias did.
He became the Governor!
I am sure that woman died with her hatred of blacks and her bitterness. What a wasted life!

well, Hoosiers are rednecks without southern charm, and most poor white people are dumb and ignorant. But again, almost all Americans are shockingly ignorant.

on a related note, Michelle Obama has led about as codled an existence as is humanly possible in this life. As a beneficiary of affirmative action, she gets a free ride to Princeton and HLS. As un undergraduate, she writes her thesis on the predictable and academically worthless topic, "Princeton Educated Blacks," as opposed to something substantive or that would require her to reach far beyond her own bubble existence. And doubtlessly at Princeton and HLS she was doted upon for being "special," i.e. a black person who can write and speak passable English. She gets a legal education at Harvard, in order to become the Director of External Affairs for a hospital, essentially a flack-PR job. And despite being showered with expensive education, which she has put to negligible use, she thinks the US (of the KKK of A!) has been insufficiently generous to her.

well, screw Michelle.

on another topic, screw Tibet too. Tibet is a sovereign Chinese affair, and no business of busybodies like you fools.

is it racism merely to note that Michelle Obama seems not to appreciate the many benefits she has recieved as a beneficiary of affirmative action, and that she has put her elite and expensive education to exceedingly poor use?

I'm just stating an obvious fact, that you people are apparently to stupid to recognize. In every US institution I've observed, the people who have job titles like Director of External Relations or Community Relations really are hacks, the person designated to listen to the locals' complaints and passify them with some warmed-over blather.

Yilla's just Milorad/Ludmilla/Milo under another nom de plume. The syntax, smug disdain, creepy obsession with Michelle Obama, and the usual spelling errors are dead giveaways to Yilla's true identity.

McCain won't create any jobs for white working class people, so their best bet is with the black dude.

If they're too stupid to get that ...

Women (of all hues), McCain is itching to appoint judges to get rid of Roe V Wade. If you don't want that to happen, your best bet is with the black dude.

If you're too stupid to get that ...

He can run as a white candidate in the general.

Growing up in rural Michigan, not too far from Indiana, I ran into a lot of open racists.

Most were almost proudly ignorant. Never left the small town. Literally feared going into the nearby little city because it was too "dark."

Most, probably all, didn't vote, and also had a hatred of the government.

I don't think there's anything we can do for them.

Does your wife Natalia read your posts, Mark?

AdAbsurdum,

Loved your exposé! The above comment about under-aged girls confirmed the obvious. He's made the same type of statement before.

Mark,

Can you say "character and fitness"?

Just drink the kool aid.

Why not show a bias against extraordinarily wealthy people who decide they want to be public servants? One might safely presume that the majority of people who have the means to run for office in truth are after more personal power and influence rather than serving the greater good. The preponderance of evidence is astounding. And yet, I dare to presume you still vote?

On the larger topic, I think the direct personal experience, rather than the presumptions one brings to the table, makes the difference in how people change their minds. My own workingclass white catholic mother stopped thinking gay people were sick once she actually got to work with some out gay men. They became people instead. But in her segregated community, where racial hostilities are still openly expressed, the chance to work in an integrated workplace is nearly impossible, never mind integrated neighborhoods and schools.

Blatant racism will cost Obama votes, in the primaries and in the general election, without a doubt. It's a very difficult problem.

I've found that in general, those who have the least contact with different groups have the greatest prejudices against them. For instance, many people out in rural counties may have issues with black people or gay people, and not actually know a single one.

This will continue to be a struggle for our nation, but one thing we can't do is give in to racism and say "well, so many voters are racist, we have to nominate someone who will make them happy." Racism needs to be resisted and met with tolerance, not surrendered to.

On August 5th, 2004 the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth ran their first television ad against John Kerry. Despite the fact that Kerry was a decorated Vite Nam war hero running against an unpopular "mission accomplished" President who had a dubious record of service in the so-called "Champaign" unit of the National Reserves, the ads effectively neutralized Kerry's advantage as a war hero.

An AP article running today is titled, "Obama defends his patriotism". I find it very ominous that Obama is in this position this early in the campaign, especially in light of today's USA Today/Gallup Poll which indicates that one third of voters are less likely to support Obama because of Jeremiah Wright. Kerry had a distinguished record as a Senator. Obama is the junior Senator from Illinois who voted "present" on many issues.

I sincerely hope Obama chooses Clinton for his running mate as I have grave doubts about Obama's chances in November.

ami,

A few comments on the big swaths of history here. The discussion about racial advancement in the time frame you reference is grossly over-simplified. To discuss just a few things.

First you would have to separate any economic advancements in the north from a lack of them in the south. The brutal conditions for blacks in the deep south before World War II remained the same after the war. There was an ongoing migration of blacks to the north which can be seen as economic advancement for those who left the south.

Segregation and lynching were common practice in the deep south well at the beginning of the 60's without a fucking peep from Washington until two white boys were lynched with a black civil rights worker in 1964. This was the first real turn in getting any relief from Washington in defense against such brutality.

Putting Dr. King aside for a moment, local black farmers in some places began to arm themselves against direct attacks upon them by KKK and their allies among state and local peace forces.
It was that threat of real armed conflict, the response to the killing of whites in the civil rights movement, and the coverage of by the major networks of it all that began, rather suddenly to create a very rapid shift.

Many details show how rapidly that shift took place. One that comes to mind is the role of the FBI. Their common practice in that time was to interview civil rights workers about their ties to the communist party, or the ties of their parents. Under pressure from the Justice department, they had to do some swift
work in a few murders but remained dedicated to chasing down King's possible ties to communists.

Within these very profound upheavals in Mississippi and Alabama, in a very short time, the voting rights bill was passed.
The year before (1964) the first elected black delegates sent to a democratic convention by the Mississippi Freedom Party were denied entry by the ever-brave Sen. Hubert Humphrey.

I'll abandon detail at this point to state the obvious. You can talk about economic advancement all you want, but its mush without the mention of the prime movers --young "activists" (read revolutionaries) acting against voting rights and lynchings, acting for rights. Economic advancement could not proceed in the south without the right to vote.

You have hugely underestimated the role of individuals making a life and death stand for their rights.

There have been great advancements obviously. And Obama's possible presidency is symbolic and important in exactly the way you describe.

Spending some considerable time in Germany myself, and getting involved against Nazi flare-ups in the early 90's--grave desecrations, as an example-- I was surprised by the deep anti-semitism among ordinary Germans, especially some of my friends.

I cite this example. I went looking for a Jewish cemetery to take photos of desecrated graves. The desecration had been front page news. The cemetery, however, could not be found on the city map--no directions. I asked a friend. At the point when a long time friend changed du to Sie the message was clear. As was the comment, delivered in Swabish rather than Hoch Deutsch--"you have to two legs, you find it." More shocking as well were the non-efforts of the local police to track down the neos.

Racism is doing especially well now in many places in the old century landscape. Russia, Bosinia......too depressing.

It will be important to have Obama as a president. Progress yes. But as you have underestimated the role of individuals in the fight against racism in America, you have underestimated the impact of a single to end it.

That said, send me some decent bread and a beer. I'm dying over here.

"For me, the scary part is that once you've established that someone or some people are just blatantly racist, what's your next step?"

Politely suggest that they read some good books and think about what it's like to be black in the USA. Ask them if they have ever been treated mistrustfully and rudely and disrespectfully for no reason, and ask them how they would feel if they were treated that way almost all the time everywhere they go, for their entire life.

This is an old, unattributed post that pops up from time to time. Don't believe a word of it.

I've spent a lot of time in Eastern Kentucky. Race relations are better in there than anywhere else in the country except possibly for the Pacific Northwest. I've lived in several places in California, Vegas and four or five places in the South and traveled extensively throughout the country, but I've never seen as much natural and free cross racial socialization as there is in Kentucky. You see blacks and whites freely congregating at every bar, poolhall, private gambling club, cockfighting pit and country club (I'm exaggerating a little; I've never actually been in a country club.) in ways that you would never see in Northern parts of the county.

Most of our students (I teach at a university in a neighboring state) come from the local area. A high percentage of out of area students are athletes. Many of them, both black and white, have commented to me about this (racial harmony). They really like it here for that reason.

That not to say that people are free from bigotry. There is a strong prejudice against the white latte drinking race apologists whose inner core sees blacks not as regular people like them but as a maladroit, helpless group deserving of special care and nurturance as a salve for their self-loathing.

I have only read a few comments but I think it is fair to say that racial prejudice works both ways.
I am so tired of people saying that the Clintons are prejudice against blacks. So many of the blacks have turned against them because that is the message they are getting from the Obama camp.
they are so clever at making you think That the Clintons comments are racial. Hogwash! You are just falling into their trap and being more determined to vote for Obama.
Barack Obama is the one that is using his race. He said "I am where I am because I am black, If I were white I would simply be one of 14 others without a chance for a bestseller book, and running for the President of the United States". He knew this early on, and has been using it very skillfully. That is why they jumped on Geraldine Ferrero, when she just repeated what he had said. She is not racist either, but he was able to get a lot more attention and votes by using this. Sorry, but he is not being hurt by racial prejudice.
Hillary on the other hand, is the recipient of mass prejudice against her because of gender. Her campaign has been such an uphill climb with everything she says or does scrutinized so closely that it is ridiculous. She is forbidden to campaign in the same manner as he does. Obama does not know how to campaign unless he obliterates his opponents. Ask Alice Palmer, the beloved longtime activist, in Illinois!

Here's what we do:

We win. Obama will be a great President and those who fear subjugation will find out that there was nothing to fear.
And
We wait. Each new child that is born and each old racist who passes brings us closer to racial equality.