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Kennedy and Obama
As I'm watching the breaking news on Sen. Kennedy with concern, I can't help thinking about his important contribution to Obama's campaign for president.
Clinton may have been the "first black" Pres., but Obama will be the first black Kennedy.
We wish you well, Ted Kennedy. "The dream never dies."
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Comments (108)
Poignant observation. Good luck Teddy, I've been with you in the best and worst of times.
May 17, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't care much about Ted as a politician, but as someone who's been dealing first hand with strokes in the family the past few months, my thoughts are with him and his children.
May 17, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
On the beach at night,
Stands a child with her father,
Watching the east, the autumn sky.
Walt Whitman
May 17, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama might want to go to Ted Kennedy's bedside.
May 17, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
You should go. But you'll have to put out that cigarette.
May 19, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Great post. Rec'd.
May 17, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's done a lot of good work on a lot of good causes throughout the years, and has taken an incredible amount of shit from conservatives as a result. God speed.
May 17, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desiderito, que palabras tan amables. Sehr net von dir. Lo aprecio mucho.
May 17, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exquisito poliglotismo.
May 17, 2008 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hic haec hoc, huius huius huius, huic huic huic.
May 17, 2008 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
As the avatar morphs so morphs the demonstrative...
May 18, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's the language of the new world order, amico
Desidero and Billy Glad inspired...
Sono molto felice que lo has bemerkt.
Bona nacht!
May 17, 2008 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Merhaba, Felicitations y Willkommen al nový dapper mondo. Was anders? Da svidanya, paka.
May 18, 2008 12:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
PS - when does the truth and dare start?
May 18, 2008 2:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Truth or dare is what I'm waiting for. I never cared much for the Kennedy family. Teddy least of all. But I respect the feelings others have for him.
May 18, 2008 10:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I figured you had gone for good this time. No one showed up at the diner. Very sad. I had to drink all piña coladas by myself. But you're here now, and that's all that matters.
T or D :
Why don't you start. I take Truth. This thread will die in 15. Find you on the board...
Hasta la proxima
May 18, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can I play?
May 18, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you have an eye for Monica then?
May 18, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Only for Consuela.
May 18, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Teddy's the only one who had it tough going, though RFK pegged his speech on MLK's death. Anyway, didn't care to go after him as he's off to the hospital. I'm not a Scooter Libby.
Truth or dare, eh? "You can't handle the truth" style. Not sure how to dare people in cyberspace, much less a chimpanzee from the dark side.
May 18, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
The truth. What will you do if Ted Kennedy's siezure turns out to be something like Bush's choking on a pretzel?
May 18, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
For me it's easy - I'm not a big Teddy fan, long before this campaign, even though I still respect his efforts while acknowledging his huge flaws. I kind of place him as a quite a bit better version of Daniel Moyihan, one of our beknighted besotted individuals. The Libby thing referred to getting him to sign off on something (a campaign fundraising letter?) from his hospital bed. Does the pretzel refer to real pretzel or a drinking binge? My mother-in-law passed out (not from drinking) and fell on her face the other day - wow, that was a huge bruise.
May 18, 2008 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've always thought Bush's story about falling down because he choked on a pretzel was bullshit. In Kennedy's case we may never know. He's not exactly a paragon of truthfulness and courage. If he did fall down drunk, I doubt he'd admit it. Siezure is like a "spell." No? Could be his heart.
May 18, 2008 11:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
No Billy.
A seizure is a seizure. It's not falling down dead drunk.
If the hospital is reporting that he had one, he did. They do an EEG, and they can tell by the brainwaves. It leaves a trail.
May 18, 2008 11:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Adabsurdum, il tuo nome is perfetto per il poliglotismo del neue Weltordnung. Il riposto abajo era también para ti.
May 18, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
GFTB -
A chica negra from Spanish Harlem loves you!!!
Rock on.
C
May 18, 2008 1:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Chica negrita de Spanish Harlem! Viva Spanish Harlem.
May 18, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
The man is a lion. His contribution to Obama so far has been priceless and his is still very much required for the campaign and a possible Obama administration.
May 17, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's pretty funny.
May 18, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm a Registered Nurse. I know everybody means well about saying Obama should go to Teddy, but it isn't a good thing right now. Teddy would feel like he had to try to be social and talk. Obama would never expect that, but Teddy would and it would be stressful for him if he really is ill right now. Obama has spoken to Teddy's family and sent Teddy word of his thoughts and prayers. There will be a time to go see Teddy, but that time ought to be of Teddy's choosing and not because people think Obama doesn't care if he doesn't go now. I hope that Teddy didn't have a serious stroke, but if he did, this is an emotional and private time. Often there are tears. Often the patient doesn't want people other than their family to see them. But we should all hold a space for things to be OK too. He could well come out of this just fine. We'll all just have to wait and see. But in the mean time, let's not put pressure on Obama because Obama should really do whatever Teddy and his family feel best about and we just aren't in that loop.
May 17, 2008 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Senator Kennedy would want Senator Obama to stay on the campaign trail at this critical time in the nomination process.
The following excerpt from CNN news is cause to hope.
Senator Kennedy used the phone from the hospital.
That is very good news.
Excerpt:
The patient was subsequently transferred to the hospital's municipal airport, and a Boston Med Flight helicopter flew the man to Massachusetts General, Lt. Bill Rex said.
Family members reported that Kennedy was well enough later in the morning to call to say he would not be able to join them for lunch.
They said they were guardedly optimistic he would make a full recovery.
May 17, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also, let's hope nobody actually tells him their praying for him. Studies show that puts the patient under more stress, hindering recovery.
May 17, 2008 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I read it was a seizure... Are they saying now that it was a stroke?
Having some experience with seizures, they are frightening, but one isn't necessarily a reason for worry.
I'm glad to see he's getting excellent Medical attention. . It would be nice if the millions of Americans that experience seizures every year got the same attention. It would also be nice to see Senator Kennedy advocate for those millions that experience them. The discrimination is endemic and pretty heartless.
Senator Kennedy is certainly a Senator that will likely make UHC happen,, and is a power for good, so I hope he's back with all possible speed.
May 17, 2008 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for posting this. Recommended.
He's the last of the three, and it's not time for him to go yet.
May 17, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, there were 4. Joseph died in World War II and was reportedly the best of them all.
I don't know how someone can not feel for this family.
Truly.
May 17, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joseph Jr. was reportedly one hell of a man, but not much is known about him unfortunately.
The Kennedy family has had more than their share of personal heartbreak. Here's hoping Sen. Kennedy enjoys many happy returns.
May 17, 2008 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
He was a pilot and died on a special bomber missions over France. Whatever the sins of the father as a Nazi apologist, the two sons made up for his transgressions.
May 17, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bee, by now, the word is out that as you say, it was a seizure and not a stroke. Although quite serious, I'm sure, the news looks promising so far. I agree this family has been through unbearable times. But as kash79 said, that Ted is a Lion. I think he's got lots of jungle left to roam.
May 17, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seisures are exhausting for the one experiencing them. It's like running a marathon on an empty stomach.
I agree Ted is pretty tough given what he's been through. I'm hoping he'll recover fully, and will never have another seizure. If he does, there are a lot of newer medications that are pretty good.
May 17, 2008 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps because the Kennedy family is noted for significant unsavory behavior right from the start. Perhaps it's because Joe Kennedy Sr. was involved in bootlegging, was the fox guarding the SEC henhouse, was a Hitler sympathizer, and supported Joe McCarthy.
As Mario Puzo quotes in front of his book THE GODFATHER: All great fortunes begin with a crime.
Or, referring to Ted Kennedy specifically: we can bring up Mary Jo Kopechne (and his probably illegal subsequent behavior after the crash), his showboating against Jimmy Carter which helped Reagan win (but was not the primary cause), or his sexist behavior in Palm Beach in 1991 (see also: blue dot).
Now, mind you, that none of this negates the good legislation that Ted Kennedy pioneered, but he also brought home plenty of pork for Boston's Big Dig -- which has already shown signs of shoddy construction and had a history of corruption, all at the national expense.
So, let's keep in mind that while a legislator of considerable power, Ted has displayed less than average character in his personal life. And this from a man who started out life literally with a silver spoon in his mouth. If a GOPer had committed the same acts in his personal life as Ted Kennedy, there would hardly be sympathy by TPMers.
Something to ponder and reflect.
May 17, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would still point out that few with that much of an income would choose to work so hard for their beliefs. What would be the point is they didn't hold those beliefs dear? I don't think I would spend my days in the Senate. I'd retire to Florida.
May 17, 2008 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ted Kennedy is a member of the most exclusive club in America and arguable during the peak of America's world-wide power. I wouldn't want to stop either! He is definitely power-driven as anyone who runs for a powerful office (hence his 1980 presidential run which, even if it weren't for Chappaquiddick incident would have been ill timed), so this is consistent.
He isn't retiring from a factory job, you know.
You can ask the same question about Warren Buffet: how much more money does he need? Why doesn't he retire?
It's called enjoying your job!
May 17, 2008 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
How crass.
May 17, 2008 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Historical facts crass?
I'm not surprised by your enamor of Kennedy. It is consistent with your demonization of anyone who doesn't agree with you. As I've said many times, the world isn't black and white like you paint it.
For someone who often writes about the treatment of women I suspect Ted Kennedy presents a particular conundrum for you.
May 17, 2008 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm aware of the history. It's just that isn't anything that pertains to either my comment, or this point in time.
There is such a thing as decorum, and a common decency.
May 17, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
You asked a question... I answered it.
He was a skilled legislator who helped sponsor laws you approve of. However, the man was not a saint and exerted considerable (corrupting) political force within MA to boot. This gets back to dynasty politics which is an anathema for a democracy.
I find it interesting that you will throw all kinds of accusations around at particular anonymous posters on TPM as to their motives, but can't get your head around the fact that you should be just as irritated by Ted Kennedy as you are with other "fat cats" as you have said in the past.
And for you to speak of decorum is the height of irony.
May 17, 2008 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't ask any question. I made a statement.
I think you're overlooking the simple fact hat anyone that comments here is "aware" of the history of the Kennedy's. That wasn't the purpose of this thread, and you inappropriate comments are just another example of your hectoring lectures.
This is the wrong thread to wax ad naseum about the "evil" Kennedys. If you want to discuss that, start your own thread.
Good Luck with that.
May 17, 2008 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
WB -
You are stellar.
May 18, 2008 1:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Call me Bee.
May 18, 2008 9:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
As a factual correction, the federal funding for the big dig was cut off quite quickly, even before signs of trouble were spotted (MA is also distinctive for having sent more money to the federal government than the federal gave it through the length of the big dig, which is a matter of pride, as those opposed to a switch to the Florida and Wyoming tax systems pointed out that Florida is piss-poor and Wyoming is federally funded).
As for the rest, I'll assume devil's advocate.
May 17, 2008 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe federal funding was cut in 2000, given that first ground was broken in 1991 (not to mention earlier planning), this isn't a "quick cut off" in my book.
May 17, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but none of the mismanagement came out until 2001 (or was it later?). Most, if not all, of the overages were absorbed by the state.
May 17, 2008 11:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is interesting. Do you have any references? I wasn't aware of those post-developments.
May 18, 2008 4:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
I believe that RFK was an amazing personality and seemed to hold the "boys" together in a way. It must have been very hard for Teddy to take on the family as the last brother. People can say what they want about Teddy, but how many of us if we had that much money, would that hard for the public good?
May 17, 2008 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing against The Girl from the Bronx because we are iPhone buddies, but it's interesting to note that DF's post on the seriousness of the energy situation garnered a mere 31 recommends, while this blog, about a news story concerning the ill health of a significant, but older American politician garnered 38 -- and counting.
I am not saying one can't feel empathetic to Ted Kennedy or his family, what I am saying is that it is interesting what the TPMers have gravitated towards.
I know this comment won't be popular, but it's something I wanted to bring up nonetheless.
May 17, 2008 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
It likely would have got a lot more recommends if attempts at discussion hadn't been shot down by so much hectoring lectures.
This comment may or may not be popular, but it's something I wanted to point out nonetheless.
May 17, 2008 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
The facts don't bear you out. I entered the thread when there were already about 28 recommends.
May 17, 2008 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's a fact for you, out of the 110 comments on that thread, roughly a third, were yours.
What does that say?
May 17, 2008 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
What is wrong with concern for Ted Kennedy? You may not like the fact that many people are concerned. A greater question about
what matters is why don't you? The guy is sick.
May 17, 2008 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
In my post that you are responding to, I said there is nothing wrong with it.
Go back and reread my post. Thanks.
May 17, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes I see. I think that when a situation like this arises people are more naturally drawn to express or participate in the concern, and that might be feel more important than dealing with other issues. That's how I felt.
May 17, 2008 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have one more thing on this. I don't know your age, but perhaps you weren't living when JFK and RFK were killed. If so, I apologize for the remark. But Ted can not be separated from this lineage which makes him far more than "a significant, but older American politician."
May 17, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Somewhere, like in Sy Hersh's book) quite a few years ago I found this quote from Joe Kennedy senior to 8-year-old Teddy:
I've lived in MA since 1971, been represented by Senator Kennedy all those years. In my experience since Chappaquiddick my Senator has taken those words to heart and consistently pursued his father's advice as my senator.
May 17, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
No family has sacrificed more for this country. From losing Joe in WW2 to JFK to RFK.
Whatever you want to say - bootlegging, Chappa and so on - this family shames anyone in the patriotism stakes.
Try subtracting Teddy as a Senator - for Labor and Health Care and all else....this country would be far worse off. Toe to toe I'll go - WHAT HAVE YOU DONE LATELY?
Karma - yeah - give up 3, then talk to me.
May 18, 2008 1:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing as impotent as bravado on an anonymous Internet board. Sigh.
This is the type of hyperbole that essentially shows the emptiness of the argument. By this argument, I assume you will be voting for McCain, who not only served this country in the Senate, but whose family carried out the nation's policy in front line combat.
Perhaps if you want to go "toe to toe", you may want to talk to the Kopechne's.
The world is complex, n'est-ce pas?
My point was that it is interesting how people latch onto figures and force the reality to fit their emotional notions, either right or wrong. Your post, full of bile, is yet another example.
For the record, Courtney, I contribute to the nation's security so that you can go to bed at night with less fear. A modest contribution, to be sure, but it does indirectly impact your life for the better. Put me in the Senate and I can do even more. What have you done lately?
May 18, 2008 4:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
CT -
Thank you for your service.
I'm unsure why you read my praise as an attack on you or anyone else. Simply historical perspective - losing three sons...
In life, I've made more than my fair share of mistakes and thereby believe in redemption -- self-servingly I suppose - guess empathy is over-rated.
The true hyperbole is the language of assuming that I've done nothing in life. From less than nothing - dead or in jail I should be. It would take more than a comment to describe my journey - and surviving things most would not comprehend - but through the fire, public service all my life.
What I've done lately would not fit into this box. Stupid stuff - like exonerating the wrongly accused - getting them out of jail and shit - whatever...
Be safe. And yes - I would vote for you - if your writings here (until now that is) are any indication of your heart.
And yeah - anonymity when you can address me by name. hmmm? Kettle - pot - what?
C
May 18, 2008 8:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Empathy isn't overrated. It's the glue that holds society together.
The absence of it may indicate a lack of heart, or merely a lack of imagination. Either way, don't feel bad at criticisms delivered by those with a surfeit of spleen.
Thanks for all you do.
May 18, 2008 9:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
If I misread the direction of your comments, Courtney, I apologize if mine caused you distress.
May 18, 2008 10:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
"For the record, Courtney, I contribute to the nation's security so that you can go to bed at night with less fear. A modest contribution, to be sure, but it does indirectly impact your life for the better. Put me in the Senate and I can do even more. What have you done lately?"
Spare me. You spend far too much time here at TPM to be making much of a contribution to my security. You want to be in the Senate? Run for office.
May 18, 2008 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Billy, I seem to have gotten on your radar. I'm flattered.
May 19, 2008 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's the dynasty bullshit. I admire your clear thinking about the end of oil.
May 19, 2008 6:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh - and 'Black Water' (Joyce Carol Oates) gives one a sense of how the f'ing up went down - that is to FITB for anyone who has been fortunate enough to never f' up. Again - perhaps too much empathy from someone w/ the rearview of multiple misfortunes.
May 18, 2008 9:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
And yet you have no forgiveness in your heart for the fuck-ups by the Clintons, courgood, as you make plain in this hideous thread. I guess you just prefer the Kennedy mythology? Do you have more sympathy for the Kennedys because they've had more deaths in the family or because they come from more privilege than the Clintons? I don't get how you can be so contradictory; Chappaquiddick alone is beyond a fuck-up. It's pretty unforgivable, in fact. It's one of those monstrous and cowardly acts we humans are capable of. I personally haven't decided whether Kennedy has been redeemed for it yet.
I didn't want to participate in this thread, but I just can't help noticing the hypocrisy of some of the comments, not just courgood's. All I can think about is how lucky for Ted Kennedy that he has such excellent taxpayer-paid insurance and can be flown by helicopter from the family compound to one of the best hospitals in the country. If I had a seizure, I'd have to get my own ass to the hospital or croak. If I were to be so unfortunate, I'd much rather croak, since I wouldn't be able to pay for the treatment to save my life, let alone the ambulance ride.
That's where we are in this country, folks. Clintons bad; Kennedys good. And Democrats poised to lose another election they should have won.
May 18, 2008 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of all the Clinton bashing that goes on at TPM, I find the prudishness of the Monica blew Bill rants the most offensive. They're just so square.
May 18, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I believe I already brought that up. I didn't find any reason to do so disrespectfully. I am reacting to the news about Ted on a human level, and yes, any family that has had so much personal tragedy has my sympathy.
I'm disappointed to see you bashing democrats so vehemently, it isn't like you.
Just so you know, having a Grand Mal seizure isn't necessarily life threatening, although the more you have the more chances there are that you will die, unexpectedly. One isn't a reason for undue concern.
May 18, 2008 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
As you well know, workerbee, not everyone here is a Democrat. And I haven't "bashed" anyone (including Kennedy). "Chided" is more like it. Please don't infuse my sentiment with clearthinker's. I'm not "vehement," I am not commenting to reinforce anyone else's views. I have my own take. If I supported clearthinker's sentiments, I would have said so specifically.
Like I did say specifically, I hesitated commenting at all. I hesitated because I knew I wasn't feeling the Kennedy glow. It's not because I hate Kennedy or any posters. I too was concerned for Kennedy's well-being; but that concern has now passed for me.
I had a reason to speak up, given my recent observations of a new round of disgusting Clinton-bashing here. Not to implicate girl from the bronx, but if she hadn't brought up Bill Clinton in her OP, I might not have said anything. I weighed whether to comment and felt it was important enough to do so while a specific point could be made. Perhaps my point is lost. Most of them are.
But it's rare when an opportunity presents itself to discuss the complexity of our emotions about complicated human beings. The intersection of Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy was perfect timing. I decided there won't be another opportunity, and so I spoke my mind. I'm sorry you disapprove, but it's different from grackling, if you read me carefully enough.
I had a roommate who was an epileptic, and I've read Karen Armstrong's fascinating book The Spiral Staircase (which I highly recommend). My comment about croaking had to do with thoughts that arose from thinking about Kennedy's fragility and my own.
May 18, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry, rtbag. I misread you. I haven't been happy with the Clinton bashing either, but I think I'm just fatigued. My outrage is mostly spent.
I will look for that book. It isn't easy coming to grips with the social stigma of epilepsy. If it was me, I could do it. When it's a creature you love with all your heart and soul, it's maddening. We can use all the help we can get.
Thanks.
May 18, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't fret, workerbee, I don't mind being called out; it's hard to express any nuance whatsoever in such a limited format. I spoke strongly because my feelings are strong, but I might have served my message better if I'd elaborated the way you allowed me to.
FYI, Armstrong went undiagnosed (and misdiagnosed) for years. I can't believe the strength she had to leave a convent 7 years after she entered it at 17, join the secular world (London in 1969, of all years), and function as well as she could before a (recognizable) grand mal seizure finally got her the care she needed.
Do you know who she is? She's an expert on Islam and world religions.
Anyway, her writing "voice" may be a little schoolmarmish, but I found it delightful and self-deprecatingly funny. Also, fwiw, it's not quite the spiritual journey it's marketed as. (Kind of the opposite, in fact!) It's a charming, hopeful, and compelling read. (How's that for a review?)
Here's a link for a reminder. ;-)
May 18, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gasket:
So what were my sentiments... as you read them? I think I've been particularly clear but several people have had emotional responses that didn't allow them to truly comprehend what I wrote.
May 18, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
lol! I read you as unsentimental about Ted Kennedy, clearthinker. Do I comprehend correctly? Or is that a misread?
May 18, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only thing I have posted on this blog was:
a) An answer to the implied question of the bee by dint of pointing out some historical facts -- that I don't think everyone knows. After all, the bee had to point out that there were 4 sons, not 3.
b) Pointing out that this particular blog was more popular than something on a much more critical topic -- and one that would be affecting people directly.
In fact, I've kept my personal feelings about Ted Kennedy to myself. Perhaps you call that unsentimental... I call it being private.
In fact, I believe you and I are making the same point: to remember the context for everything.
May 18, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree we are making the same point to some extent, clearthinker.
By using the word "unsentimental," I wasn't being critical, btw. I thought the word was the right one to contrast with everyone else's much more "sentimental" approach (and I'm not being critical by using that word, either). It was that very contrast that made me laugh (kind of like coming upon a funny line in a serious book). I understand your desire to remain private about your feelings, especially in a public forum.
May 18, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe he learned it from Hillary.
Still, I applaud gasket for judging each politician as an individual rather than by party... that is clear thinking.
May 18, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Funny how things change. Clinton may be the first black president, but now he's the enemy. And Ted is out to defeat his wife.
May 18, 2008 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
God help us all.
Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis, increased troops in South Vietnam by 20 fold, overthrew the Ngo Dinh Diem regime, Domestic Policy: ?.
But he looked good on TV and gave a good speech with a lot of nice photo ops in Berlin and Ireland.
May 18, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't forget cutting the taxes on the rich (which many here would be upset by), really hoped to avoid anything with civil rights (until it was thrust in his face and then he stepped it up), and risky behavior far beyond a Lewinsky: he slept with women who were girlfriends of mafiosi.
May 18, 2008 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I do think the Kenndy bashers might find another post to rally around. I'd be more than happy to pile on. But every post doesn't have to be analytical. Good posts can be about affecting the energy around an issue or a person. The purpose of this one seems to be to generate some positive energy for Ted Kennedy right now. I'd rather not drag it down.
May 18, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Then you should criticize the blogger who used this attempt not merely to wish Ted Kennedy well, but to bolster Obama by calling him the first black Kennedy.
May 18, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Grackle.
May 18, 2008 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's how she feels about him. We can always blog something like Is Obama the first black Kennedy? What if he is? New post. New comment thread. Why do we have to challenge every statement we make as though the fate of Western Civilization depended on it?
May 18, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
The title of this thread isn't "Get well Ted" or "What I like about Ted Kennedy", it's "Kennedy and Obama".
If people want to use Kennedy's illness as an opportunity to lead the cheerleading brigade for Obama, they should expect to be called on it.
May 18, 2008 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, my personal approach is to let them cheer all they want, as long as they do it without bashing Clinton Where's the harm? If they attack Hillary, we defend her, in defending her, we kick Obama around a little. But, hey. I people want to rally around the Kennedys and Obama in what they perceive as a difficult time for Teddy, why not let them do it in peace?
May 18, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
The sixth is proper pride, which moderates and regulates us as to the honors of this world.
Dante
May 18, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are we ascending or descending?
May 18, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is the idealized Camelot version of the Kennedy family, and the "revised" GOP inspired history of the Kennedys.
The truth is likely somewhere in between.
I must say, I am appalled at so-called progressives swallowing GOP revised history hook, line and sinker. Then again, some have also swallowed the revised and "improved" history of FDR, Carter, and the Clintons. In short, any democrat or progressive of the last 100 years.
It just goes to show how successful those GOPUSA talking points have actually been.
May 18, 2008 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, I posted a comment to this that went down below. Sigh.
May 18, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have always thought of the Kennedy brothers as representing the best of what could be called 'statesmanship'.
Very wealthy family, yes, and a family like any other whose members have foibles and faults. But, unlike other wealthy families, this one has focused its members' talent on serving the nation as best it could through serving in government leadership, or creating wonderful service programs [Peace Corps, Riverkeepers, etc].
Correct me if I am wrong, but the Kennedys' statesmanship has not been motivationally diluted or made ugly [think of the Bush clan] by tying their government service to behind the scenes manipulations designed to increase the monetary base and/or power for themselves or their profit-motivated corporate associates.
I believe it is this very quality of undiluted statemanship shared within the Kennedy clan psyche which prompted the clan to endorse Barack Obama, whom they recognize as 'one of them'.
May 18, 2008 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joe Kennedy Sr.'s being appointed to oversee the new SEC rules was called at the time of putting the fox in charge of the henhouse.
Lest we forget that JFK beat Richard Nixon in dubious circumstances, not unlike the dubious circumstances we see today. It's just that that particular time it went in the Dem favor.
The Kennedy's also associated in the same circles as organized crime. That's why people like Jimmy Hoffa was so upset by the Kennedy's turning on him.
There is a reason why, when JFK was assisinated, Malcolm X said "the chickens have come home to roost."
Of course, none of this negates JFK's skillful handling of the Cuban Missle Crisis... although it might be argued we wouldn't have been put in that position if he had handled Khrushchev better at their Vienna summit and hadn't made Castro feel paranoid by constantly trying to take him down.
Ted Kennedy, of course, was probably the best politician of the 3 sons, he certainly passed JFK as an effective legislator.
However, the Kennedys throw their weight around in uncomfortable ways. I remember one time, in JFK and Tip ONeil's old district there was a good Dem primary race shaping up. A Kennedy threw his hat into the ring and... well... that was that. This particular person had no real experience and used a trumped up "environmental energy company" as his experience -- it was doubtful whether he even understood what the company did. It reminded me of the 2000 NY Senate primary race which Hillary destroyed merely by showing up.
Political dynasties are very bad for American politics. Be it the Bushes, Clintons, or Kennedys. It's simply an issue of concentrating power will create corruption.
May 18, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like to hear what the GOP version of history is. I'd also be happy to hear what you perceive as the mythologized version is, although I think I'm familiar with what you are referring to.
May 18, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Clinton's are a two career couple with one kid. Their "dynasty" begins with them. To compare them to the Bushes, Kennedys, Roosevelts, Harrimans, etc. is simply bullshit. You know better. Why don't you cut it out?
May 18, 2008 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Clintons are a dynasty. Just like the Kennedys were when 2 brothers were in elected office at the same time. Of course, the Kennedys have grown their dynasty from then, but it was a dynasty way back in the early 60s.
Roosevelts don't really qualify as they were very distantly related, many years between administrations and more importantly, from different parties.
May 18, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
You really are incredible. A two-career couple with one kid make a dynasty? Oh. I see. You just have to repeat it and it's true. Clintons are a dynasty. Clintons are a dynasty. Roosevelts don't qualify. Roosevelts don't qualify. Kennedys had two kids in office at the same time. Two kids at same time. Dynasty. And the Clintons didn't even hold office at the same time. But dynasty. Dynasty. Dynasty. Why don't you look up the meaning of the word? Or get your clock fixed.
May 18, 2008 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. Many people here agree with you.
I know you are still going into the anger phase of death on the Hillary Campaign, so I'll leave that issue be.
What are your current McCain campaign plans?
May 19, 2008 12:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
clearthinker, I've been meaning to point out for some time now that family political dynasties are an American tradition. Here, start at the beginning of the alphabet.
May 19, 2008 2:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
To pick a state he can't win and campaign for him there.
May 19, 2008 6:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Billy, I revert to Teddy Roosevelt - better not to hit at all, but if you're going to hit, hit hard. Here's how dynasties work, you yokles. Imagine the Clintons doing anything like this:
"In 1960, John Kennedy was elected President of the United States and vacated his Massachusetts Senate seat. Ted would not be eligible to fill his brother's vacant Senate seat until February 22, 1962, when he would turn thirty. Therefore the President-elect asked Massachusetts Governor Foster Furcolo to name a Kennedy family friend Benjamin A. Smith II to fill out John's term (pursuant to the 17th Amendment), keeping the seat available for Ted.[8] In 1962, Kennedy was elected to the Senate from Massachusetts in a special election. He was elected to a full six-year term in 1964 and was reelected in 1970, 1976, 1982, 1988, 1994, 2000 and 2006."
Yes, in 1962 the three Kennedy brothers were the President, the US Attorney General and a Senator from Massachusetts.
As for the Clinton Dynasty, they've never held public office at the same time, have they?
May 19, 2008 1:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
I started to do a comparative history of the Bush dynasty, Presidents, Governors, political allies, "consultancies," foreign connections, etc., but actually decided nothing we can say about the "dynasty" meme will make a dent with the Clinton haters. And I doubt it will make much of a dent with the run of the mill Obamanauts either. Disappointing. I just have to figure these talking points come straight from the Obama campaign. One of the better numbers they've done on the Clintons. When I was in graduate school, there were a number of women older than average in the program. They'd either had to wait until the kids left home or they got a divorce to pick up their own lives. I'm sorry to get angry, but I just picture people like the commentor above, waving his finger in their faces and shouting: no, no, no. One degree per family!
May 19, 2008 8:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Anger and violent rage are 2 of our most effective emotions. Acquiescence is one of our least.
May 19, 2008 10:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
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