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Hillary is the unstoppable V.P.
A commenter envisions a frightening plausible "nightmare" scenario where Clinton true believers muscle a V.P. nod at the convention.
You imagine being on the floor in Denver. Hillary's delegates,
NEARLY HALF THE DELEGATES, are demanding she be on the ticket. These
are true believers who have stuck with Clinton through thick and thin.
To them, putting Hillary on the ticket is a crusade.Most Clinton delegates are women, most Democratic voters are women,
and they're going to just accept some middle aged white governor that
Obama is rumored to want? No way. They are in your face. Hillary
supporters from back home are jamming your Blackberry. This and more
horror scenes flash through your mind in a nano second.Then it occurs to you; if the roles were reversed and Obama came
close to winning and wanted to be the vice presidential candidate,
could you imagine the convention saying no?Clinton," If we get your commitment now (we've already got a bunch
of Obama super delegates to support her) we don't have to take a vote
or fight in Denver. With Hillary's pledged delegates and a hundred or
so super delegates we'll be over 2026 before the end of June. Saves
Barack the hassle of picking a running mate and we can be united
against McCain on day one."Are you going to tell the former president of the United States no
again? Anyway you convince yourself it's a great ticket and will help
Obama in those big swing states. "I'm with you Mr. President".
Clinton," I knew I could count on you". You want to bet there aren't
20% of the super delegates who would buy this deal? We're talking super
delegates here, not profiles in courage.If Hillary Clinton wants the vice presidential nomination, and her
loyal delegates demand it, and the Clinton machine puts its full weight
behind it, she will be on the ticket.
Comments (21)
Hillary's delegates, NEARLY HALF THE DELEGATES, are demanding she be on the ticket.
The usual way an ambitious politician gets onto the ticket as the veep nominee is to show that they are competent, loyal to the party, and ready to be loyal to the presidential nominee. And usually they're from a state that isn't an automatic Democratic win.
It's striking that the case for Hillary getting the veep nod looks nothing at all like that. Instead, it's a "demand," a "crusade" that is "in your face" so intensely (some hope) that Obama won't have any choice. An in-your-face crusade backed up, in this account, by getting superdelegates to threaten to reverse their endorsements if Obama doesn't give in to the pressure and pick Hillary.
If Hillary were a good choice for a running mate, someone Obama would gladly choose because they have the qualities and strengths (and home state) that would best help his campaign, we wouldn't be hearing these proposals for how Hillary might get the veep nod by applying enough pressure and coercion to give Obama no choice but to pick her.
May 15, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, applying pressure is such poor politics.
Perhaps she should sweep up or something instead. She comes across quite uppity.
May 16, 2008 8:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, applying pressure is such poor politics.
I'm not surprised that you didn't address the actual point. If Hillary were a good choice for veep then there would be no need for the sort of pressure and threats and coercion described in the original article.
I'm not saying it won't work. She might get the veep slot by coercing Obama into choosing her by getting enough superdels to threaten to change their endorsement if he doesn't. That's not poor politics, that's hardball politics.
But if that's how she gets the veep slot, the point will remain: the case for Obama choosing her wouldn't be based on coercion and threats if she were a good choice for the position.
May 16, 2008 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps he's unable to get over his bitterness so she has to resort to less pleasant means than simply being the most qualified for the job. It wouldn't be the first time a woman had to get pushy to break through into the boys' club.
May 16, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Her negatives FAR out-weigh her positives. Barack could put ANY woman on the he ticket and get all of Hillary's positives without any of her negatives.
Stop trying to excuse inexcusable tactics. At least, they are inexcusable if you are a progressive or actually understand that this country is about one wrong president away from the abyss.
If you are DLC or RNC, these things are perfectly acceptable, even though they are the very reason this country is being destroyed.
May 16, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Last time I looked out the windows, the trees and mountains were still there. Hey, is that you with the hair on fire? That must be painful.
May 16, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. First she tried remaking the rules to get the nomination for President; now she's trying to remake the rules to get VP and create a new wave of "inevitability." The VP is not a consolation prize, not a second place trophy.
I'm disturbed by the series of theads on TPM over the past several weeks that make a case for civility toward Clinton and then interpret civility as "See, no hard feelings, lets make her VP." She would bring nothing but negatives to the VP position - a continuation of the psycho-drama of her campaign.
Civility does not equate to acceptance on the ticket.
May 16, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
So the democratic party should:
-Acquiesce to Clinton supporters who, despite losing the pledged delegate count, demand the primary be overturned to give Hillary the Presidency.
Or else:
-Acquiesce to Clinton supporters who, as a result of losing the fight to overturn the primary, demand Hillary be appointed Vice President.
Or else?
May 15, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or else we ignore you, stay home, and vote for someone with a touch of class and civility and practical sense of politics in 2012. How about that?
Clue #1: We don't owe you a fucking thing, so if you think you can do without us, fine, go it alone. But if you think you have a party that includes us, then try to show some respect to build a team. Because I don't see a choke collar on my neck.
May 16, 2008 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
We can do without Clinton's 20 percenters. Just like we can do without Bush's 20 percenters. That equals 20% of the national electorate. Yes, we can change this country without you.
The rest of us reasonable and intelligent democrats (many of whom are Hillary supporters - just not bitter like you), republicans and independents will go ahead and fix this country despite your shouting from the sidelines.
It is time the vocal minorities on both teams were benched while the silent majority takes the field. Sit back and enjoy the game. Too bad you are too angry and too myopic to get motivated and involved.
It's going to be awesome!
May 16, 2008 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, I just have enough self-respect to vote for a crew that's insulting me. If you think thats only 20% of Clinton's voters, you haven't been paying attention.
May 16, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 15, 2008 11:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well said.
May 16, 2008 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Since Terry McAuliffe talked about how great a ticket that would be shortly after NC and IN I think it's probably plan B.
May 16, 2008 2:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hate to point this out - 'nearly half' of ANY majority decision-making process is worth precisely nothing. :)
Just ask John Kerry.
May 16, 2008 2:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. Just go to Google and type define: plurality and the truth will be told.
May 16, 2008 6:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, the brainiacs have taken over the site - why exactly is it that candidates choose running mates from balancing states and ones who cover their weaknesses? What is it that's actually done at a convention besides waving some doilies? Wasn't one of the few good points of caucuses was that they helped build up the party
Hey, John Edwards pulled in 7% of the white vote in West Virginia - guess he's your man. Feel the power.
May 16, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
There's one problem with Hillary. One that is essential to the fact that in the primary, you appeal to Democrats; in the general, you appeal to everyone.
54% of the nation would rather kill themselves than to even hear the name Hillary Clinton mentioned in any way, shape, or form.
I'm one of them.
Good thing there's a middle-aged white governor who would bring all of her positives and none of her negatives, and would bring some new positives as well.
Kathleen Sebelius.
Oh, by the way, for all you Hillbots who somehow think she who shall not be named is qualified to be president because of her gender, Kathleen is a woman.
May 16, 2008 3:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I'm pushing Lou Rawls for Hillary's running mate, cause I think Laurence Fishburne might overshadow her.
May 16, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
'nearly half' of ANY majority decision-making process is worth precisely nothing. Just ask John Kerry.
I think rather, you should just ask George W. Bush, he only one nearly half of the popular vote Nationwide, and nearly half in FL, but it was enough to get him just over half of the SCOTUS to give him the Presidency. Hillary is hoping the Supers (perhaps with the help of the Credentials committee) can do for her what the SCOTUS did for W.
I see the scenario in the original post as quite plausible. In fact, the only way I see it being avoided, is if Hillary issues a Shermanesque statement regarding the VP slot. Hillary has to convince not only her delegates, but her supporters nationally, that she fully supports Obama and whoever he picks as VP. She would expect no less from him.
If this did happen, and overturned Obama's pick, Hillary should look forward to becoming the least powerful VP since Nelson Rockefeller, she would wield much more power remaining as an experienced Senator from powerful, populous state.
May 16, 2008 9:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
So you think winning half the vote counts for nothing, and we think it counts for something.
And yes, she can walk with a good chunk of those 17 million voters. Think it's unfair? I'll send you a virtual crying towel. Powerless VP? I'm sure she'll find a way to make the deal stick.
But it's nice to see Obama fans showing such generosity. A few days ago they even held out a token white woman for us. Wasn't that a nice surprise. I think now they've now passed her over for John Edwards, but still, it was a nice gesture. If Hillary wins, we'll see if we can get Wesley Snipes, how about that? Just doing our college best.
May 16, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
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