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Hillary is NOW Damaging Feminism

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It is time that feminists who have supported Clinton for the right reasons step up to the plate and criticize her for unacceptable remarks and practices. The women’s movement has been deeply divided over the Clinton candidacy. Yet what started out as a legitimate disagreement about the merits of the candidates and their agendas has turned into a test of one’s feminist credentials. But the test is perverse. It is not a test of feminist principles and values. It has become a test of loyalty to Clinton, in spite of the fact that she is undermining basic feminist values.



But perhaps one shouldn’t speak of the “women’s movement.” After all, aren’t there almost as many feminisms as there are feminists? However, it is safe to assume that feminists of different stripes share at least two basic principles: 1) one’s dignity and sense of self-worth should not depend on one’s gender, and 2) opportunities for achievement should not favor one gender over another. Almost all feminists have been willing to substitute “race” and “ethnicity” for “gender” in these two statements. Almost all feminists would argue that to set the oppressed against each other is reprehensible and undermines these principles. We rise or fall together. Isn’t this what feminists have believed? Further, means are inextricably linked with ends. You can’t promote human dignity by undermining it in your practices.

Clinton’s recent comments and strategy have wrenched means from ends. In her quest for the presidency, and now perhaps the vice presidency (or who knows what else), she has behaved as if she is willing to see divisions widen between races and classes. Here is Hillary’s recent comment in USA Today on the topic of white workers.



“There was just an AP article posted that found how Senator Obama’s support among working, hardworking Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how the, you know, whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.”



This was not an accidental throwaway comment. (And Clinton can’t hide behind the fact that she is “citing” an AP story. One is responsible for the news stories that one cites.) Numerous times during this race the Clinton campaign has attempted to make Obama the Black Candidate. What is so extraordinary about this recent statement is just how matter of fact it is.

But suppose the positions were reversed. Suppose Obama was losing. Suppose Obama decided that he had to devise a “black strategy” in order to deny Clinton the nomination or gain leverage. Suppose Obama had said,



“There was just an AP article posted that found how Senator Clinton’s support among working, hardworking Americans, black Americans, is weakening again, and how the, you know, blacks in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.”



Think of the implications. Obama would surely be viewed as playing the race card or perhaps the race deck. At minimum Hillary supporters would view Obama’s version of the statement as fostering a divide between white women and blacks, for patently selfish ends. Further, it would be viewed as creating rifts in the Democratic Party that make winning in November more difficult, thereby undermining feminism, because the Republicans will not be good for women’s issues.

Why aren’t Hillary’s feminist supporters taking her to task for these comments? We have heard some criticisms by Clinton supporters. But they are often softened with, “Well, she really didn’t mean it.” Nonsense on stilts. She meant it. Her campaign now depends on a strategy that the statement promotes. She wants to rack up a large white vote in West Virginia and Kentucky. She wants to be able to say that she is the candidate of white workers, especially white male workers. Anyone who doesn’t call this for what it is, is an apologist. And one reason for being an apologist is the fear of failing the Hillary loyalty/feminist test. But this is wrong. It is putting Hillary above feminism(s).



Feminists who have supported Clinton need to speak out NOW, and speak out with vigor. Feminism(s), and what it stands for, is more important than Hillary Clinton.

http://msa4.wordpress.com/


Comments (66)

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Numerous times during this race the Clinton campaign has attempted to make Obama the Black Candidate.

Obama waited until SC to make himself the Black Candidate. Wouldn't have worked well in IA and NH but worked wonders in SC, GA, LA, AL and MS.

Are you suggesting that Obama was responsible for Bill's Jesse Jackson statement?

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"Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in '84 and '88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here."

Is that the statement you're referring to?

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Yes, that one, which said that Obama was simply a black candidate and not to be taken seriously.

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...which said that Obama was simply a black candidate and not to be taken seriously.

Your statement. Now let's look at Clinton's statement;

"Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in '84 and '88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here."

Now show us all that Bill Clinton said what you've claimed above.

Thanks in advance.

Indiex, while I appreciate your searching for a direct quote to assign responsibility, it is in the indirectness of the statement that the press (not Obama) took umbrage with Clinton's words in South Carolina. Something called a nonsequitor - which has a tendency to catch people's attention. He made a connection that did not exist within the parameters of the situation everyone was witnessing. I watched it live, as it happened, and the reaction to the comment was from the press, not Obama.

Clinton did not mention any of the candidates that had won, or run good campaigns in SC recently, he only mentioned the black ones that he had to search further back into history to reference. Black candidates that were never taken seriously by the American public as a whole. If you were to make any comparisons between these candidates; a black candidate who was busy being successful and being taken seriously, and black candidates who were never considered nationally viable, there is only one corollation. Black. There are no other comparative factors in common. It is basic corollary informational analysis.

Since the concept is a basic question in an IQ test, most people don't feel the need to elaborate.

To find an accurate and comparable corollation between Obama and someone else who had won SC by these kinds of numbers, who was also being taken seriously by the American electorate, you would have to compare him to someone white.

While you may not like these facts, these are the ways and means by which people agree on statistics, and language. And Bill Clinton knows this, even if you do not.

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You didn't watch that live, it wasn't shown in real time. It wasn't by any means a "non sequiter", it was in direct response to a question asked by a reporter. Jesse Jackson said he understood perfectly well what Clinton was saying in his response. It's too bad we have people so disengenuous as to pretend they don't understand it either.

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Jesse Jackson wasn't a serious candidate? He wasn't taken seriously? He won 13 primaries/caucuses in 1988 (narrowly lost my state) and finished 2nd behind Dukakis. And he stayed in the race all the way to the convention.

Those, m'dear, are the facts and they destroy the argument you're trying to make.

Claiming that Jesse Jackson 'wasn't a serious candidate' is kind of offensive, don't you think?

That was Bill Clinton's response to the question a reporter asked. Why does it take the two of them (clintons) to beat Obama?

Seems a strange answer to a direct question doesn't it?

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No, it doesn't seem strange at all. I've always dealt in facts.

Do facts bother you? Does it bother you that Jesse Jackson is black?

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No, you inferred that, he didn't imply it.

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Are you suggesting that Obama was responsible for Bill's Jesse Jackson statement?
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no, but he surely was responsible for Jesse Jackson Jr.'s comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNrlSn7ndAA

And he surely was responsible for the brew-ha-ha over MLK and LBJ. Both of which occurred before Bill's comment.

Really? Let's take a look back on that day shall we?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BB4Vvgn_4k

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So Obama forced Hillary to make an offensive comment minimizing MLK's role in civil rights??

Just more "Obama forced the Clintons to make racial comments" bullshit.

Just like Bill had to make that Jesse Jackson comment with that shit-eating grin in SC, but it was OBama's fault.

Wow, this Obama is a wiley figure - he keeps forcing these savvy political masters to say stupid things!

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So Obama forced Hillary to make an offensive comment minimizing MLK's role in civil rights??

I didn't see an offensive comment that did that. I hope that you're not referring to this;

"Dr. King's dream began to be realized when President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act," she said, adding that "it took a president to get it done."

That's a fact, not an offensive comment.

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Sorry that you couldn't make it back to comment on your ambiguous post, Ben. Such is the life of an Obamanaut...Obamanut? Whatver.

I'm sad to say this, but a lot of Hillary's supporters have spent the better part of this campaign damaging feminism. I've lost track of how many times I've heard Hillary backersindicate that they're voting for her because they want a woman to be elected President. I guess, for some, any woman will do. She's just not my first choice. True feminism is about making gender a non-issue in the political realm. She seems to represent the ideals of feminism when they meet her ultimate agenda of getting elected, and to disregard them when they don't. In other words, she doesn't represent the ideals of feminism at all.

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I guess, for some, any woman will do.

I guess, for some, any black will do.

I guess, for some, any black will do.
Not that I like to feed the stupid. But thought Id chime in here on how incorrect this is.

Black Americans have long since Malcolm and Martin had a number of "wannabe" leaders who have had failed attempts at "uniting" us, or leading us to a better future(imo this may have been a good thing in the long run). We have had plenty of fakes tell us they have our best interests at heart just to win whatever local election and then forget us. Or just simply not be good at uniting us, not smart enough to cover all of the angles.

So to say "any black will do", shows your ignorance imo, as their have been MANY before Obama, but none successful. I know......you have NO idea who those people have been and are. There have also been many prior to MLK and Malcolm who have pushed the limit to unite this country, and or black americans and done it well.

And keep in mind, Obama isnt talking about black people in such a way, white people or hispanics, he is talking about all of us.
Your attempt to pigeon hole him/us is nothing new.

No one is going to sweat what you have to say really. Just another bump in the road to a better tomorrow.

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But you agree that any woman would do?

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Ondioline wrote: "I guess, for some, any woman will do." [May 12, 2008 2:23 PM]

With that in mind, I hereby propose Rice and Coulter as the Republican nominees in the 2012 election. Think of the possibilities. TWO women. And one of them is black.

That should please everyone.

She's been damaging feminism from the very beginning. Right after her IA stomping she decided to go after Obama on Choice, even though both Naaral and Planned Parenthood gave him a 100% rating. Talk about filthy mailers. Then, THEN SHE HAD THE FREAKING NERVE to do the Shame on you thing in OH. She freaking disgusts me to no end.
See for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVuMYKs8iJs

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To which faction of "feminists" do you refer?

I had recent conversation with a 20-something "feminist" who said, "Women are more intelligent than men."

If a man said, "Men are more intelligent than women," it would immediately be characterized as being "sexist". Sexism is a form of bigotry.

Though it is late in that which many "feminists" view as a game -- a power struggle in which any means are acceptible toward achieving the goal -- let's start calling female sexism what it is -- sexism -- bigotry. Instead of continuing the simpleton's extremism of: only women are oppressed/victims; all violence is male. (Want to know how disempowering oppression is and feels? be eligible for the draft -- which involuntary eligibility applies only to men -- during war time.)

More recently I discovered that her meaning of "more intelligent" is actually "lies more"; she will tell any lie to gain advantage over a person who is of good faith and trusting. She is contemptuous of her "inferiors" of "lesser intelligence".

So, to which faction of "feminists" do you refer? Those who hold the 70s view of equality? Or the several other factions which are about power and domination, and any means perceived as necessary to achieve that?

Not so by the way, that woman, who also complained about the (cliche) "oppression" of women, is white. I'm sure she -- who asserts that everyone is self-serving (her excuse for being self-serving), and that she is "unreliable" (which means her word is worthless) -- being so self-centered hasn't time to concern herself with whether she is as oppressed as black women. Or as oppressed black men.

She also complained that her fellow employees -- all of whom are male and non-white -- "stupid".

But why should she care? -- she's self-serving. And, though her word is unreliable, and her conduct is contrary to the claim, she claims to be a "feminist". Which in her case means: female cut-throat. (But let's not forget that all violence, all evil, is male, as in, male-volent.)

In short, grow up: we are humans before we are male of female. Human rights, not "EITHER my rights OR your rights".

Revealing is the irrationality of the post by "ondioline" just above mine: it begins with berating "feminists" for "damaging" "feminism". (If it were about truth, could it be "damaged" -- exposed as being other than that?), then with no discernable transition, ends up berating Hillary for "damaging" "feminism".

Clearly there isn't any "feminism"; there are several "femininsms," and most/all of those are divisive even among themselves. And VICIOUSLY cut-throat!?

Don't worry, the author here has no inkling of what feminism is and just wanted to use the term to attack Hillary. Perhaps just got back from reading Andrew Sullivan and confused bitch slapping with women's rights and equality.

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What makes you think that the woman you spoke to represents any faction of feminism?

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Mitchell Aboulafia:

Current use of the term "gender" is uninformed, bogus.

The correct term is "sex"; but "feminists" don't want to use that word because, though accurate, they want to avoid being direct in preference for being oblique, indirect, and vague.

"Gender" is different: it is "sexual identity". "Sex" and "sexual identity" are not necessarily the same thing. One's biological sex can be male, while one "sexual identity" -- one's gender -- is homosexual/"female".*

The first problem with an ideology is self-promoting oversimplification -- which is an immediate distortion of accuracy and truth at the point at which truth is made subordinate to the drive for power. At which point it becomes no different than the ideologies against which it purports to contend.
_____

See Nancy Chodorow, Mothering.

Not sure where you are getting you bogus definitions, but gender is not synonymous with sexual orientation.

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". . . . (And Clinton can’t hide behind the fact that she is “citing” an AP story. One is responsible for the news stories that one cites.)"

No, one is not "responsible for the news stories that one cites". One is responsible for the citing of it, and whatever comments one makes in relation to that.

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"Why aren’t Hillary’s feminist supporters taking her to task for these comments?"

Because white supremacism and racism are not confined to white males?

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I read this comment at over at taylormarch.com It’s from a Hillary supporter who is making get-out-the-vote calls to WVA. I wonder if this approach is considered an example of promoting feminist ideals.

http://www.taylormarsh.com/comments.php?postID=27645

“One guy said, "some Obama fellar told me the race was over"....he didn't say if it was by call or what and I didn't press him on it. Instead of calling the Obamabot a scum sucking liar in case he was friends with the person I appealed to the man's ego...I giggled like a school girl and said in my sweetest Southern drawl, "like you would even fall for that! He must not realize you are smart enough to know that's not true! Well, just in case he told anyone else that, you be sure and let them know what the real story is because like Bill Clinton says, they are just trying to discourage you is all" I could almost see his ego puff up over the phone signal...lol”

PS - if you have a vague feeling you read this comment before - I posted it on another thread. It fits better here, I think. And so bad it's worthy of repetition.

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Even Clinton's claiming feminism is hurting feminism, as all it does is ferment the stereotype of women being hormonal and such among the remaining sexists.

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So Hillary and Bill are the racists now? Is that the idea that Obama and his supporters are trying to leave us with? That anything that they may have done for this country has always been done through the view lens of racism? That any support that they might have garnered in the past surely wasn't right. What a load of BS. You people shouldn't lie to yourselves so much.

So Hillary and Bill are the racists now?

The poster didn't make that charge. Sensitive, are we?

That anything that they may have done for this country has always been done through the view lens of racism?

Setting aside the fact that a "view lens" doesn't mean anything in English, I'll merely point out that the poster didn't make anything resembling the absolutist straw man you've hastily stitched together. If you've got to put words in your interlocutor's mouth, it's a good sign you've got nothing cogent to add to the discussion. Generally speaking. And some of my best friends are sophists.

That any support that they might have garnered in the past surely wasn't right[?]

See above.

You people shouldn't lie to yourselves so much.

See here.

Now, if you've got something substantive to add, Lville, please do so. If not, I'd advise you (if only on behalf of your candidate) to refrain from jumping into threads with hyperbole and foot-shootin' rhetoric. Ya'll lost. It's time to move on.

Hold up, everyone! There's a 50+ white rural Ohioan with the overwhelming urge to dictate Democratic strategy from his armchair! Surely that will win us this (year's) election -- despite 12+ years of pandering to his ilk! Not this time! Louisville for VP!

Let it go, old man. Let it go.

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There are all kinds of view lenses - fisheye, long distance, panoramic, close up, viewing - just to name a few.

"You've got nothing"? Do you really mean to say, "you have got nothing" or did you mean to say, "you have nothing"? Perhaps that is acceptable in Detroit, but in rural Ohio we frown upon such usage of the English language.

Personally, as a rural Ohioan, I don't want to tangle with one of Detroit's bright, young boulevardiers (afterall, you city folk are so sophisticated) but I really don't care for your tactics of intimidation.

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...as their have been MANY before Obama, but none successful. I know......you have NO idea who those people have been and are.

None successful? I'd certainly disagree. I registered as a democrat in 1988 to vote for Jesse Jackson in our primary. (Yes. We actually counted votes back then.) He narrowly lost here but it didn't matter since WI sealed the deal for Dukakis.

It almost seems as if Obama is ashamed to be compared to Jackson. Why?

It almost seems as if Obama is ashamed to be compared to Jackson. Why?

Okay, there's two ways to parse this:

(A) You're a GOPer and don't know any better;
(B) You're a Hillary-backer without a clue.

I'm not sure which is worse at this point.

BC: You're no better than that last black guy!
BO: ...
BC (aka indiex): What do you have against black guys?!?

Really? Seriously? GAME OVER.

The reason is that Jackson has a much more impressive background and gives a much better speech.

No he doesn't.

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Yes he does. Jesse Jackson has done things Barry can't even dream of at this point in his life.

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In the years to come, people will look back at Clinton's performance in this campaign and wonder how she could have turned an "inevitable" victory into an ignominious defeat. Clinton has lost this election through her own hubris and mismanagement and in doing so has not helped feminism at all. I think of the women running major divisions of my company. They lead without tearing others down or relying on tears (faux or not) and sympathy. They excel in strategic planning, take responsibility for their mistakes and learn from them. Based on her performance in this election, Clinton appears to lack many of the qualities that make a successful leader. In other words, she can't manage her way out of a paper bag. The attempts by Clinton, her husband and her supporters to play the race card by denigrating Barack Obama, black leaders and black voters doesn't change the fact that she will NEVER be the first woman president. NEVER.

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I just want to know, MITCHELL,who and what gave you the right to speak for feminists, feminism.?

Me ..I was a founder of the first Woman's Group in Boston. I marched . i tabled. I lobbied. I work for prochoice lelgislation to protect the right of woman to be free and equal. WTF do you do that you arrogate to yourseld the right to even make such an unjustifed and wrongheaded demand.?

This is just a screed and a rant to once more unfairly trash Hillary Clinton.

This entire camoaign season has been one trashing a woman candidate in sexist terms...And I don't see or hear Obama supporters angry at the perpetrators of that ugly strain of bigotry,

The proprietor of this blog said in the most Freudian slip one can imagine when Mark Penn was removed that he had been "gelded" by Hillary Clinton. Gelding for those who don't know is castration? How revealing! Does this not tell you just what is the underlying psychology of the time of smear that you and your kind generate.

Oh and did you, the feminist, post something when Steve Cohen compared Hillary Clinton to the Glenn Close character in Fatal Attraction....a sexist movie to start with and a horrendously sexost analogy.

You're just like all those Republicans who found feminism valuable for ken Starr and Paula Jones.

Fie on you. You are completely illegitimate.

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Hi, Debcoop – I’m a long term feminist too and an Obama supporter. If Hillary had won the nomination a few months ago, I would have supported her candidacy with pride, as a Democrat and as a feminist, even while feeling a bit uneasy with the prospect of a continued dynasty in the White House (my original reason for not supporting her).

However, given her behavior in the ongoing campaign, I’m embarrassed as a feminist. I’m embarrassed by feminists like you who say “This is just a screed and a rant to once more unfairly trash Hillary Clinton” apparently without realizing (or perhaps not caring) that in fact they are the ones who are ranting. I’m embarrassed by feminists who view me as a traitor at best, or an idiot at worst for not supporting the woman candidate, as if it’s invalid to look beyond sexual apparatus when choosing a candidate. I’m embarrassed by feminists who complain that it’s “not fair” that Hillary hasn’t won – obviously overlooking or disregarding the fact that she lost in a democratic process, the same kind of process that allowed feminism to grow and thrive.

Please, take some time to think about these issues. I fear for the future of feminism if we can’t be more reflective in a situation like this.

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You're correct about that --- and the question he was responding to was (not exact words, but close enough) "So what do you say that it takes two of you to campaign against one of him?" (In short, WJC was asked to comment on the fact that Obama won despite the fact that he was up against not one but two Clintons.)

Now HOW is his Jesse Jackson response to **that** question, anything but an attempt to minimize and marginalize Obama's victory and explain it away as simply "black candidates win in SC - it doesn't say anything about REAL merit or REAL electability" It was, I suppose, a direct response, as you say: it was a response that said "his win doesn't matter because he's black".

I did watch it in real time - the full thing, several times, and while I had managed to remain loyal and respectful at least about their history of support for and from the AA community, there was simply NO other way to interpret the message of his response.

Do I think they are racists? Not at all. I think they are equal opportuntity "users" - no discrimination at all. If you or a group you belong to can provide traction under the wheels of their bus headed to the mountaintop, then under you go!!

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So you're saying that Jesse Jackson won because he was black? Are you attempting to minimize Jesse Jackson's electability or his real merit? Are you claiming that the only reason Jackson won in Iowa and South Carolina is because he is black? I can't think of any other way to interpret your remarks other than you think the only reason anyone voted for Jackson was because he was black.

p.s. You did not watch it in real time, it was not on in real time.

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I stand corrected -- I meant that I watched the entire interview, not the sound bite which was usually only his response.

"Are you attempting to minimize Jesse Jackson's electability or his real merit?"

I'm attempting -- no, I AM -- minimizing Jackson's electability. I personally believe that he and his career have a lot of merit, and his candidacy was very important. BUT those who voted for him, black and white (I was one of the latter, in fact) knew full well that it was a 'symbolic' vote in the sense that he had no realistic chance of winning the nomination -- because of his race and because in the eyes of many he was seen as racially polarizing. Simple fact. His candidacy was a flexing of the muscle of the AA/civil rights voting bloc, and an emotional vindication, and a foretaste of what should be at some point in the future .. and important for all those reasons .. but it was NOT going to succeed all the way and we knew it.

Clinton knew it also, and that's precisely why his analogy of Obama's campaign to Jackson's was such a put-down: inaccurate and racially polarizing.

Jackson was a "black candidate;" I don't think he ever claimed or attempted to be anything else. Whatever his merit (and I think he has a great deal) that is what he was: a very impressive groundbreaker but never a serious contender. Obama is a "candidate" - a very serious contender. By equating the two - in response to a question that didn't require referencing or even hinting at the issue of race - Clinton was attemption to minimalize and marginalize Obama's campaign and his candidacy.

Clinton might as well have said: "Sure he won, even having to campaign against both of us, but it doesn't count because he's the black candidate and this State always supports the black candidate." Just another pathetic attempt to say how losses "don't count" but one that was pretty brutal, inaccurate, and unseemly.

There are two things are at issue here: Substance and politics. On the substance, the record is clear. Barack Obama is 100 percent pro-choice -- always has been, always will be. That's why he made sure that FDA-approved contraceptives were covered by insurance plans for women in Illinois as a State Senator. That's why Obama spoke out against South Dakota's attempt to outlaw all abortions. And that's why Obama has worked so hard to make sure that low-income and college women can access affordable birth.

In terms of politics, the truth is that the Clinton campaign took a gamble that may be having unintended consequences. It has caused division and opened debate within the pro-choice movement, which has enough on its hands protecting reproductive justice against those who would return us to the days when abortion was not legally available. And, most disturbingly, these attacks on a legislative strategy created by choice leaders may threaten the ability to implement such strategies in the future. If pro-choice legislators are going to be attacked by Democrats, what incentive do they have to carry out voting strategies crafted by choice leaders?

Given the context it was clear that Clinton was trying to marginalize Obama's candidacy and his victory in S. Carolina. Our "first black President" lost a lot of support in the African-American community with that comment.

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Given the context, it doesn't mean anything other than what Clinton said. If people infer meaning, it isn't the speaker's fault. The entire evening of the primary, pundits and press talked about race, Jesse Jackson winning S.C., the demographics of the electorate, how it broke down, who received the most "black" votes, who received the most "female" votes, the "nascar" votes and every other demographic they could manage to fill up the void. Should I infer from your post that Jackson was a marginal candidate whose candidacy meant nothing?

No, but that's what Bill Clinton was implying.

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How did Clinton's remark damage feminism? The press and pundits regularly, unrelentingly and continuously discuss race, just as they discuss religion and sex in electorate demographics. There isn't a day that goes by when the discussion of racial demographics isn't measured and weighed. So why is it alright for them to discuss white blue collar voters as part of Clinton's demographic, in fact her strongest demographic, and yet she is not allowed to acknowledge it or say it?

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It damanged feminism Bev because the people here at TPM hate her so much that not simply demonizing her will do. They are looking for a total destruction of her. I've seen more than a few comments from New Yorkers hell bent on removing her from the Senate seat if she loses the Nomination. Can you imagine a Hillary Clinton supporter even trying to make such comments as these? That she has destroyed feminism, she is a racist, a white supremist, she has never done anything in her career, and those are the kind ones.

All I can say is you reap what you sow. Obama , if he is the nominee, cannot win without us. All I say is keep driving that wedge we will either stay home or go vote green or Mcain. Its your choice.

All of these comments make it obvious that most if not all Obama supporters don't feel we are part of their Democratic tent. Thats fine. I think that this election will end up destroying the Democratic party that I knew. Maybe that isn't a bad thing.

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Their motto is "it is not enough to succeed, others must fail."

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We have two very qualified semi-finalists. Primary vote totals are not tremendously far apart. Assuming you're a solid democrat (but not an obsessive political hound), you probably like most of the policy proposals from both camps.

Voting for the black man is a vote against racism.
Voting for the white woman is a feminist act.

Does one need trump the other? I mean, obviously in the booth, only one may be chosen. Still, I think only a few will vote solely on these factors.

It can never be measured, but what if, in the spirit of generosity, we assume that there are exactly as many racists as misogynists in this country?

We might have to look for OTHER answers - more complex ones!!

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This is just ridiculous. Hillary was asked something to the effect of: "How do you win at this point?" her response (I'm not quoting) was that white people are voting for me. Bill Clinton was asked what does it say about Obama that he is beating two Clintons? His response, (again not quoting) he won South Carolina just like Jesse Jackson. In the first instance, Hillary clearly lays out her winning strategy and in the latter, Bill chose to link Jackson and Obama together. Why? Why not answer the question directly? He could have said so many things! Obama's has a great ground operation for example or just say, well there are other contests ahead. In both situations, the Clintons opted to bring race into the discussion.

It doesn't matter that the media, etc., focuses on race and other demographics, as democrats allegedly committed to equality, they have the responsibility to rise above race-baiting and speak to real issues. As so-called leaders, they could have easily helped changed the tone of this race by denouncing the tendency to overemphasize race and gender, but they did not! It's one thing to note the significance, it's another to rely on it as a winning strategy. The Clinton campaign has consistently chosen to emphasize what's wrong with Obama and their comments and behavior suggest that they think his blackness should be noted as a problem.

Stop pretending this isn't so!

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Two comments don't make for a "consistent" emphasis of race. They make for an occasional reference.

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I said they have consistently chosen to emphasize what's wrong with Obama--not that they consistently emphasize race. Nonetheless, what you call "an occasional reference" I call sowing the seeds of division.

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The actual truth means very little to the Cult members Vision.

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"Academically, black children at 17 perform no better than a white 13-year old." Economist, May 10, p. 29. Considering that American children generally perform poorly compared to children in any other industrialized democracy, this is telling.

and p.30: "... studiousness is stigmatised among black children. It would be hard to imagine a more crippling cultural norm."

and " "... when the bar is lowered for black applicants to law school, they are admitted to institutions where they cannot cope."

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Dude, just stop your disgusting.

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Why are all those Tammy Wynette fans in w va voting for hillary today? And I have never understood feminists blindness to the abusive enabling of Bill treatment she visited upon several of his victims.

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HAD TO REPOST THIS.

This goes to show that there are differences in how the media treats race and gender. I’m not saying that they’re better or worse, just different. I’m just gonna say it. This country has an instinct to protect white women. It can be a burden at times (i.e., Cult of True Womanhood) but it's still there. Hillary gets her feelings hurt and voters rush to her aide. She throws a fit and we make excuses because, after all, we can’t forget those double standards, right?

Yet, at the same time, we have an instinct to fear black men.

Tell me, what would happen if Obama went on a tirade against Hillary, like she’s done ? What would happen if he (gasp) raised his voice to this white woman? What would happen if he spent all of his time talking about the “white man,” the way Hillary talks about the “boys club?”

Rick Lazio, a white man, found out when he “invaded her personal space.” If he took the fall, you can imagine what would happen to Obama the second he steps out of line.

Hillary faces a lot of obstacles through sexism, no doubt. But there are moments where she benefits as well. There are moments where she has the luxury to portray herself as the victim to garner sympathy from voters and the media. There are moments where she can, as Melissa Harris-Lacewell (a black woman, professor) notes, slip in and out of her “Scarlett O’Hara” routine. It’s a prime example of how mainstream media discusses gender bias without recognizing the white privilege that often comes with it.

You want to talk about double standards? Obama has run his campaign under the interrogation of white approval ever since he made that speech at the DNC in 2004. He knows he can’t do or say certain things because he can’t afford to make white people uncomfortable, especially when running against a white woman.

Once again, I know that we have to fight sexism as vigorously as we fight racism. And we should be doing a better job at it.

But I also know that there are many “oppressed” white women who would never trade places with a black person. All I'm saying is that it's more complicated than the media would like to suggest.

So you guys: Fine, point out the double standards. But don’t make excuses for Hillary’s poor and divisive behavior. And don’t pretend like Obama doesn’t walk a tight rope everyday as well.

Obama caught hell just for saying, “you’re likeable, enough” because people didn’t like the tone of his voice. He caught hell for the “snub” because he happened to be talking to someone else when she came by. I swear, I almost fell out of my chair late last week when I heard a pundit criticize Obama for WRITING ON HIS NOTEPAD while Hillary spoke at the debate. I guess he was being disrespectful because he wasn’t looking at her when she talked. Give me a break!

I can’t make this any clearer. Obama has to RUN AWAY from issues of race for fear of being labled the “black candidate.” It’s the only way he can win. Yet, Hillary gets to embrace “girl power” in ways Obama could NEVER embrace “black power.” Now you’ve got Tina Fey saying “Bi*ch is the new black.”

Some see Hillary as a victim. But some of us also know what discrimination is. And for a lot of us, we see Hillary as a grown woman who knows exactly what she’s doing. She conveniently plays off of gender oppression every chance she gets.

Hillary is not just any woman. She's HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON. Some of us don’t see her as a victim, and never have. What we see is a privileged person who thought the white house was her entitlement.

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More “Feminist” reaction over at taylor march – this is regarding non-Hillary options for Obama’s VP:

“OMG! Kathleen Sebelius????? That woman is a freakin' robot! I saw her sitting in the audience when Obama was at a rally, I think she might have introduced him...she was sitting there practically drooling. It looked like she just had a fresh lobotomy or something! Yeah...she'd be great for tea parties, but could you imagine her running the country if something ever happened to Obama???? This is how he picks his VP, someone who wears a skirt to get the "little missus" vote?”

Keep in mind that Sebelius is a respected female Democratic Governor. To me there is no indication that this writer is any kind of feminist or a Democrat. She’s just a complete Hillary loyalist. Trouble is, she THINKS she’s a feminist.

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I don't hate Hillary, at least I try not to and yesterday, I experienced a profound sense of compassion and empathy for her and her supporters. They believe that she is the ONLY woman capable of reaching the White House and that seems to be enough for them. (Granted, others believe she is simply most qualified.) It's painful to hear this knowing that Hillary's chances of winning are slim to none, so I have no desire to demonize her or her supporters.

But admittedly, I have struggled with her candidacy because I believe it is truly unhealthy to have a former First Lady and President in the White House. No matter what she has said or done while campaigning (I can ignore all of it even if I don't approve), from the very beginning I have thought it problematic to bypass the 22nd Amendment. I just do not understand how it was thought to be good for democracy or the country. As much as I can try to understand why people support her, I question the mindset that allows her to think her candidacy is good for the country and democracy. If I delve too deeply into analyzing her motivation, I begin to loathe her because it reeks of arrogance and egomania.

"It will be me" she said about the nomination. That statement is chilling to me because, IMHO, it was based solely on her Clinton name and its accompanying power and not on her own womanhood or accomplishments and so in that sense, I think she damages both feminism and democracy.

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Its your thoughts Vision and thats cool. But most people seem to fall for the whole CLINTONS THINK THEY ARE ENTITLED routine a little too fast for me. There is a rush to ascribe outside notions of who these people like egomania way too fast. You say those words spoke to you that she is neither woman or democratic only an egomaniac? How in the world could you come to that? Cause you know her?

I can go along with 22nd Amendment concerns but when we start transferring OUR images of that person then we have lost control of our own balance. They are politicians. Both of them. They are neither perfect or untouchable as some would have us believe. They will make mistakes and say dumb things as each has. What we had and have to decide is which is more able to do that job and emobody at the same time what we want in a President. Why do we have to go for emotion and silly stabbing personal remarks each time?

If you disagree with what policies she espouses then fine. But simply smashing her because she happens to not "ACT" like you want her to .....I don't get.

Question. How should a woman Act when she is running for president. What policies and values should she promote? What sort of attitude versus the males should she take?

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