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Divide and be conquered
Remember when you and your brother used to run through the house and you'd knock over your mother's lamp and she'd yell, "You see?! This is why we can't have nice things!"? That's how I feel about Cynthia Ruccia. This 55 year old sales director for Mary Kay cosmetics is running through the Democratic Party's house knocking over stuff and in November we'll all be yelling "See? This is why we can't win elections!"
Cynthia and them have started Clinton Supporters Count Too. It's a group of Democrat women in swing states who will campaign against Barack Obama in the general election. Please go back and read that last sentence. I'll wait. Read it? Thank you. I was jogging this morning and heard a story about her on NPR. In it, she whined that the Democrats have catered to Blacks while ignoring women. For real. She said that. And in the NY Times she said “We, the most loyal constituency, are being told to sit down, shut up and get to the back of the bus." Hmmm...the back of the bus...that rings a bell...what key segment of the Democratic party used to have to ride in the back of the bus...help me, I just can't place it...women? No, no that's not it.
When people asked Hillary to exit the race because it is mathematically impossible for her to win, Ruccia said she felt women were being told "to sit down, shut up, and get with the program." Hm. Funny, neither John Edwards, Mitt Romney, nor Mike Huckabee had a problem leaving the race for the good of their parties when it was clear that they were not going to be the nominee. In fact, it would have made sense for Mitt and Huck to pull a Hillary and fight to the bitter end because many Republicans loathe McCain. But Republicans are about winning; Democrats like this woman here are about whining.
Let them stack the Supreme Court with young(ish), far-right leaning judges because Cynthia Ruccia's candidate didn't win. Let them "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" because Cynthia Ruccia's candidate didn't win.
I have to wonder what is going on in this woman's pink-caddy-lusting life that she can be so offended by the democratic rejection of an admittedly flawed candidate. It's not like we're talking about Kathleen Sebelius or Condoleeza Rice--women whose political achievements are theirs and theirs alone and not inextricably tied to their husbands. This is Hillary! Hillary Whitewater, Travelgate, Failed Healthcare, Lewinsky, Stole Furniture From the White House, Carpetbagger, Voted for the War, Won't Bake Cookies, Threatened to Obliterate Iran, BestFriends4Ever with Richard Mellon Scaife, Rending the Democratic Party Asunder with her Ambition Rodham Clinton. See it's the person not the woman people have a problem with!












Comments (32)
I liked what you had to say and was agreeing with you until your conclusion. There's something wrong when Democrats are parroting Republican talking points. Some of those issues you brought up have been debunked and some are frankly nobody's business and the rest, well she's campaigning hard and her supporters appreciate it even if we don't.
May 19, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are plenty of reasons not to vote for someone. Many on his list are very worthy IMO, and there are others. There are pleanty of bad reasons not to vote for someone, and they are in that list too. The point is people make there decisions based on other things than gender, and there is plenty of history to choose from, that make the decision about the candidate, not only the gender of the candidate.
May 19, 2008 8:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah,
I read on a few blog sites that they're trying to organize a convention fight. They want to wear pink, and get pink tents to camp out. Even the men are going to wear pink.
The ACLU defending Hillary supporters has a pending lawsuit against the DNC for not providing "protest space" for "activist". This didn't make sense to the DNC because they filed the lawsuit before a location had been secured.
May 19, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
But the point is right: I don't know people who don't support Hillary because she's a woman. I know people who don't support Hillary because she's Hillary. There are plenty of Obama supporters would wouldn't support just anyone who is black for President. For example, many are the Obama supporters who wouldn't vote for Clarence Thomas, and many wouldn't vote for Al Sharpton. To vote against Hillary and to urge her to leave the race because she has lost isn't anti-woman. The problem with Hillary is simply that she's the wrong woman.
May 19, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your contempt is showing. Bad Obama-ite.
May 19, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know about contempt, it's just illogic.
When Hillary has lost, call us.
I don't recall any boxing match in the 14th round where someone's bloodied up that the guy winning keeps going to the ref, "Hey ref, it's over, how come you don't call it, huh? Huh? Hey ref....
To paraphrase the woman to McCain, just beat the bitch, quit trying to talk her to death.
(And by "beat", I of course mean get the required number of delegates plus superdelegates and have it confirmed by the party. I know that this is a tough concept to absorb when you feel inevitable and entitled).
May 20, 2008 2:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps a better description is the boxer ahead on points asking for a TKO while he's getting hammered. Yeah, I know, he's just trying to hang onto the ropes until the final bell, hope it comes soon.
May 20, 2008 2:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gimme a fucking break, Desidero. Did the rest of the candidates wait until the magic number had been reached before suspending their campaign? No? Hmm.... why is that? Maybe because they have some grasp of reality, can do basic math, and are not putting their own ambition ahead of the nation. Maybe?
The writing has been on the wall for 2 months. You can refuse to read it if you want to, but it doesn't change the fact that its there.
Hillary continues to make hay out of everyone who has read the writing, and accuses them of sexism or bias. Its not sexism, its that SHE is not winning the nomination.
May 20, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm guessing that Cynthia Ruccia is post menopausal, since she doesn't seem to mind that her actions would lead to Roe V. Wade being overturned.
I'm also guessing that she has no children or grandchildren, since she shows such disregard for America's future.
I'm also venturing that she owns property overseas.
May 19, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oops...you forgot the link to the original.
May 19, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Geesh! Democrats trying to swift boat democrats. What a crock!
I come from a big family and we fought like cats and dogs----until somebody else attacked one of us. Then y'all better watch out! Ya don't trash America when you're on vacation out of the country. Ya don't poop in your own bed. Ya don't kill your little sister. There are just things ya don't do. And one of them, if you're any kind of democrat, is you don't work to get a republican elected--especially a republican who could stack the Supreme Court for decades to come so that we won't even be able to recognize America.
Last week John McCain said that he would appoint judges just like Justice Alito. Last week Justice Alito said that torture wasn't against the American Constitution "Because torture isn't punishment". Maybe Mrs. Clinton and the rest of her sane supporters should have a word with Cynthia Ruccia and her group, "Clinton Supporters Count Too". I can't imagine that Mrs. Clinton would appreciate the group for using her name to ruin the democratic chances this year--after all, Mrs. Clinton would still presumably like to work in the Democratic Party.
May 19, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
What is your problem? Isn't what you're doing Sean Hannity in reverse? What an embarassment that the Cafe has two recommended posts filled your mean-spirited garbage.
Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame. The moment that Senator Obama is the undisputed nominee you become eminently irrelevant. You should thank your lucky stars that you have Hillary Clinton to practice your nastiness on. Hate away.
May 19, 2008 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to disagree that this post is all about hate and nastiness. The moment Sen. Obama becomes the nominee, Cynthia Ruccia becomes eminently RELEVANT. The selfishness and party disloyalty of her kind is what is hateful and nasty.
May 19, 2008 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
What is mean spirited? That he doesnt prefer your candidate? That he doesnt agree sexism is a significant voting factor? He disparages the woman who is planning to campaign for the benefit of the "$4 trillion war/ 4000 dead" political party, so I give some slack there. But if your problem is a mean spirit toward HRC I would expect you to defend all candidates against all on the record issues which paint them unfavorably- true or not true. I would also be very expectant that you would rush to chastise anyone saying racism wasnt an issue in the BHO voting decision (btw it wasnt) for the sheer evil of the premise. Thanks in advance for your objective righteousness.
May 19, 2008 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. Dont you find "shame" a consistent theme in HRC supporter critiques? Is it me or is that getting old?
May 19, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Democrats: Do you want to end our occupation of Iraq? Do you want to end 8 years of George W. Bush's influence?
Yes, women matter. Yes, women can and should run for President, and yes, they can win.
And yes, people other than white caucasians matter and they can and should run for President, and yes, they can win.
If one democrat has a higher delegate count than another, that doesn't mean both democrats don't matter.
It simply means one wins.
May 19, 2008 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, LisB, for that last comment.
"neither John Edwards, Mitt Romney, nor Mike Huckabee had a problem leaving the race for the good of their parties when it was clear that they were not going to be the nominee."
It's ludicrous to compare HRC's run as a primary candidate to these three men. Look at the numbers. 47% she has. 47%. What part of that don't you understand?
You understand it's not 49%. Okay.
Neither is it 9% (Edwards) or whatever the other paltry amounts were among Huckabee and Romney. At this stage, it would be deflating for HRC to drop out until she's beaten by the numbers. She is a symbol for women everywhere, and she doesn't want to be a quitter. She'd rather be beaten. Fair enough. it's tough, it's honorable (yes, I use that word with respect to Clinton), and it will take women just a little bit farther than they've ever been before.
Get it?
May 19, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I finally do get it. She doesn't want to quit, she wants to be beaten.
Hillary wants to go as far as she possibly can, and that's okay -- to me, finally -- that's okay.
I understand now, and I applaud her.
But, by DNC party rules, and by everybody's numbers, she's already being beaten.
A good man knows when to back out. A good woman should, too.
May 19, 2008 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's already taken women a whole lot further than they've ever been before. But now she's in danger of damaging herself and the party. That's not good for anybody including women.
May 19, 2008 10:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
The biggest lie in the faux left blogosphere is that Hillary Clinton is risking her legacy and place in the Party. That's nonsense, and generally comes out as concern trolling. Will people on the hard left and the faux left hate her still? Of course. Will they speak for Americans in the aggregate? As usual, absolutely not.
Watch as the media will begin it's self-introspection (were we sexist? us?), the politicians on the left will fawn over Hillary's tenacity, the bloggers will spread the meme that they had nothing against Hillary except for the war vote or Mark Penn or Bill, but not Hillary, and we'll all live happily ever after--that is except for folks like the original poster who needs something to hate, and I'm sure he'll find what he's looking for.
May 20, 2008 7:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, I think many will realize that once the real race starts in the fall:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/in-obamas-own-words.php#comment-2829083
And it won't be John McCain doing the dirty stuff. It will be talk radio and bloggers. And lefty bloggers will react knee-jerk and cause it all to get the buzz that was wanted to begin with. And it will end up on Olberman and Larry King. And that will distract from Obama and McCain talking about important things. And people won't be able to blame "the media" because now the blogs will be feeding it.
Bruce, the real irony to me (and, in the end, sadness) is that so many in the blogosphere can be played by P.R. campaign people to fall for the bread and circuses, in more massive quantities than ever before. (So far I say "pfffft, show me" to all the blog triumphalists who think this can improve politics. Yes, campaign website donations are a revolution. Blogs? Not so much.) You are right that many are going to forget how riled up they got over this thing or that thing that Hillary did or Bill said or whatever, and act like it never happened. That's because it's all the emotional manipulation and they will be moved on to other manipulations and fall for those just as easily.
Sort of related: this is why I really do get upset when forums like this don't maintain archives. In my experience, one of the most useful things one can do on them, besides entertainment, maybe the only useful thing one can do on them, is to simply confront people with their own comments from the past if they can be easily found. As in, "remember when you hated Hillary? Here's a link!" Sometimes you can get lucky, you see a light bulb go off, in the manner of "oh my god, I am falling for being manipulated again," and society has gained a more rational citizen. I've seen it happen several times in my too much experience in forums like this, but it's comparatively rare. Oh, and a friendly warning: don't get too tied up in it yourself, unless you're really enjoying it, because a lot of these people are going to forget everything in yet another stage of denial, and move on to more idiocy, and the realization of how much time one has spent on such fruitless endeavors can be devastating. :-)
May 20, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
screw Hillary Clinton. I am so sick of her sense of entitlement and her destructiveness. It's time we stop tippytoeing around her just because she can throw one whopper of a figurative temper tantrum. What are the superdelegates afraid of? What's Howard Dean afraid of? That these people will throw a temper tantrum? Let 'em. Let them crash and burn. I've had enough with her and her supporters trying to take down this party. If she runs again in 2012, it's gonna have to be as an independent, because she'll be a pariah if these people do this crap and she doesn't excoriate them.
May 19, 2008 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
what kind of true feminist would do this? Not everything is about sexism. Hillary earned her fall.
And Geraldine Ferraro can go jump in a lake.
May 19, 2008 11:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
"screw Hillary Clinton. I am so sick of her sense of entitlement and her destructiveness"
That's the bottom line..
Screw Hillary and her ignoble ambition, screw her self-indulgent narcissism. Cut her loose!
May 20, 2008 1:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I remember one AFC championship where the winning team asked the losing team to quit early because someone might get injured for the Super Bowl. Of course the losing team just went to the lockers and scrubbed up early, because they knew the team winning was entitled to the Super Bowl.
Anyone remember Magic Johnson's shot at the buzzer? It's probably his fault - he's rooting for Hillary and the bastard is probably telling her to hit the boards hard all the way to the last second. What a poor sport.
May 20, 2008 2:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
God, the sports analogies are tiring. But if you want to go there, there comes a time when, in fact, the football team that is behind recognizes that there is not enough time left to score multiple times, and takes a knee.
May 20, 2008 11:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please, go ahead and vote for Mcain. When world War 3 starts over us bombing Iran (and it would, since Russia hates us right now and China wouldn't be too happy about it either) I guess I'll be signing up. Can't let everyone else do the dying for me in the face of that.
If you vote for Mcain and we end up in WWIII just drop me a line with your address. I'll sending you a fucking post card.
This is to all the feminists willing to send all there sons and daughters, willing to send young people like myself to war so they can prove a point.
Seriously, the selfishness makes me want to vomit.
May 20, 2008 1:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
As does the self-righteousness.
By the way, can I get you a glass of water? Your hair seems to be on fire.
May 20, 2008 2:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Stop foaming at the mouth people. Hillary going to the convention is not a problem for Obama or the party. Look at the enthusiasm its generating - admittedly a small amount of it is misguided and has turned into toxic bile... I am hopeful for a spontaneous remission in the general. Fools like "Clinton Supporters Count Too" will be a very small minority that won't sway anyone. They are caught up in a histrionic moment that will surely melt away long before November. There are always a few idiots out there who can't regulate their emotions for their own good or the good of their tribe. Why worry about them and their narcissistic tantrums? The party is healthy and can take some vigorous debate. Our enemy is weak and eating their own. Cheer up people. This is what eminent victory feels like. Get used to it. I know its been a while.
May 20, 2008 3:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Self righteousness huh? And the people who will vote to start a war because they are butt hurt? What would they be?
I mean I may have said it from time to time about Clinton but I never would have voted for Mcain.. Never. These people actually have formed a group, they're serious.
I am not pissed at people who are pissed that she is losing.. I am pissed at the people who would really vote for a war monger out of spite.
Listen to Mcain over the last few days... He says no talking to Iran ever, he also says that Iran can NOT get nuclear technology, our not talking to them is not stopping them from developing the technology.
So whats the final option left? War, bombs, death, but never talk.
So the reality is voting for him is voting for another war. Is this what they really want? I am just trying to state in cold hard terms the truth of what anyone who would not vote for the dem, no matter who they would be, Clinton or Obama, is voting for.
Real people will go and die. People like me. You'll have to forgive me if this pisses me off. I am sure my friends in the military would agree. I don't know, can't ask them, guess where they are?
May 20, 2008 3:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Whether Sen Clinton should drop out is not what is so troubling about the original post.
It is that a group of Dems will campaign in the GE against another Dem. Is there a precedent for this? Do people really cut off their nose to spite their face? If McCain wins because of these people, will they feel better because they now get to punish the Obama supporters. "We showed you!"
From all of the exit polls I see, the number of Clinton supporters who would rather vote against their interests (voting for McCain) is higher than the Obama supporters. It seems this shows that one group is more about worshipping the candidate than caring about the party and the ideals that go along with being a Dem. And it ain't the Obama camp.
That is what is so troubling.
May 20, 2008 8:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, Desidero. Its not like boxing. This is an election. The person ending with 50% of the votes plus 1 wins just the same as if they had won 100% of the votes.
Hillary's late primaries victories are no more or less meaningful than her earlier primary victories. Same as for Barack. Each state has its own unique electoral dynamics having nothing to do with when its primary is held.
May 20, 2008 8:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
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