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Deconstructing VP Counsel's Letter To House Judiciary
We previously commented on the VP Counsel letter to the Judiciary. The letter was wanting.
This thread is your chance to deconstruct the VP Counsel next letter to the House Judiciary linked at TPMM. This comment thread is with the belief the House Judiciary doubted Addington would voluntarily appear, and has subpoenaed Addington, with this subpoena.
First, we'll independently review the VP Counsel letter, without reviewing any House correspondence or subpoena. The comments below will appear disjointed. If there are some interesting summary points, or issues related to war crimes, or the DOJ OLC data dump in re FISA immunity, we'll be sure to mention those.
Second, we'll make references to the original Conyers letter. It is our concern the VP Counsel's original response mixed and matched the letter from John Yoo and Addington, providing for a confusing and disjointed response. Given the House Judiciary subpoena, the following is more of an academic exercise in gleaning some insights into the White House, DOJ OLC, and OVP legal counsel discussions on war crimes, CIA torture, Geneva, illegal warfare, and FISA violations.
Third, for the sake of discussion, we'll presume the FISA immunity discussions between the US government, Congress, and telecom contractors involved Addington; as did the discussions on Rendition. Of interest are the Member of Congress notes the Office of Director of National Intelligence released related to emails to and from contractors; and the FBI and Wainstein redacted testimony on FISA immunity. Also, recall the planned Yoo testimony, and the problems with DOJ OLC.







Comments (58)
The letter is a PDF file, but it is not text-searchable. The Speaker's blog posted the scanned version of the PDF, not the original text.
We would prefer the Vice President's staff counsel provide an electronic version of all letters. This would make it easier to search the text. Also, when the Speaker posts a pdf file of a letter, we would hope there were two versions: The original scanned file (not text searchable) and the text-searchable version.
If the Vice President, as President of the Senate needs guidance on how to provide useful information to the public in 2008, the Vice President has a bigger problem on his hands than just alleged war crimes.
May 7, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!!
All beware the poster of this blog is a known spammer on TPM that throws unsubstantiated allegations on the news blogs that link to his unsubstantiated rants on this blog.
If you chose to leave a comment on his blog that does not agree with his conspiracy driven dribble, the blogger will in turn attack you. He has a history of flaming people throughout the TPM site.
He rants that anyone that disagrees with him is somehow connected to the DOJ, attempting to spread misinformation since the poster does not agree with him, attempts to connect the poster to another poster in a means of discrediting him/her, or attempts to claim the commenter is violating TPM policy for posting a divergent point of view.
While there may be some truth in the posting, it is only surely a result of pure accident on his part if there is so. Testing simply posts things he does not know about and then says because no one has stopped to explain the topic to him and the ins and outs, there must be a conspiracy.
Proceed at your own risk.
May 13, 2008 8:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for raising these concerns. TPM readers are encouraged to share your views on this important issue here.
May 14, 2008 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem with the VP's counsel's letter to the Member of Congress is that is is addressed not the Judiciary Chairman, but the Judiciary Staff counsel.
This is an important point. When lawyers are sending notes to others, represented by counsel, staff counsel are not allowed to write a letter to the represented party. They have to address the letter to the legal counsel.
Off the bat, the Vice President and Addington, are jointly communicating to Congress that they are not looking at this issue as a simple exchange of ideas from the Executive Branch to the Legislative.
Rather, the bluntly worded letter from counsel to counsel, should send a message to all Americans: This is not a civil interchange, but part of the preliminary litigation steps.
Counsel are also required to comply with attorney standards of conduct. This means that they cannot rashly abuse each other, and they must show some deference to opposing counsel.
Given that we're dealing with two high profile letters, the Vice President's counsel has already made it clear that they "expect" others to do things. Before we have a discussion about the merits of that request, the first point of order is to remind Vice President's counsel that they are a public servant, responsible to the public. If counsel would like to invoke privilege, that is a non-starter. The President must invoke that.
Second, when the VP counsel begins a letter to Congressional counsel, VP counsel must remember the precedent of Nixon: That the duty of legal counsel is to cooperate with legal inquiry. The legal counsel are not private counsel. They cannot invoke attorney-client privilege. There amy be some legal issues which the Congress and Vice President disagree, but this does not mean the VP Counsel can prospectively threaten to encourage others not to fully cooperate with the inquiry.
As you read the exchanges between the Vice President's counsel and Congressional counsel it's best to keep handy the attorney standards of conduct, and focus on the conduct before a tribunal; and review the precedent of Nixon: There is no credible claim by legal counsel that they can block or not respond to Congressional inquiry. Rather, if the Vice President or President wish to invoke privilege, that privilege only applies to attorney-client discussions between the President and outside, private counsel.
We leave it for another day to discuss whether the claim of privilege is bonafide; or one that Congress must accept; or one that the COngress may challenge. Bluntly, Addington's attempt to claim priviledge could fail, and Congress could file contempt charges in light of Nixon for Addington's refusal to respond to legislative questions, especially on issues of war crimes, FISA violations, rendition, illegal invasions of Iraq, and other alleged breaches of the Supreme Law.
The question of whether Addington will or will not cooperate is over. He's been subpoenaed. He has no choice on whether he does or doesn't appear. The question is whether he is prosecuted for failing to appear; or whether Congress or the Court hold him in contempt for failing to appear. Mukasey has said he won't enforce the law; so it's up to the Congress to re-ask Mukasey whether her plan to allegedly recklessly ignore his legal obligations and not enforce a contempt citation. Mukasey's already on thin ice in re Geneva, it's of less importance whether he sees religion in re Addington. It's our person opinion that he's lazy and might be prosecuted down the line for alleged complicity with war crimes, but we'll leave that parlor discussion to the worthless pundits on the DOJ OLC staff making excuses for malfeasance in re Geneva.
Also, notice the language of the attorney standards of conduct: The language relates to attorney-client confidences; the rules are not broadly applicable to Congressional inquiries per se. Congress has different rules. Although the attorney must meet their attorney obligations under the rules of ethics, it's too late in the game for Addington to credibly claim a "concern" with the very standards of conduct he's allegedly ignored. One standard is the peer-review standard. We can debate whether the DC Bar is or isn't competent; or whether there is or isn't any meaningful oversight of the DC Bar. It is our view they're worthless, but that's just a personal opinion and may not be widely held.
For those of you who haven't been able to read between the lines, the AG, Addington, and legal counsel in DOJ OLC are the subject of an alleged war crimes investigation, and could be prosecuted for alleged breaches of Geneva. This is very serious stuff. There is no statute of limitations. This is not about to end any time soon, and if the Congress refuses to confront these issues, foreign war crimes prosecutors are poised to expand the list of warrants issued against US government officials.
With those introductory remarks in mind, let's dive into the Attorney Standards of conduct, and point out some gems with the VP Counsel's letter.
As you read this, recall the VP counsel has written another letter, which was arguably reckless, defective, and non-sensical. Putting aside their apparent alleged incomprehensible legal analysis, you'll see a simple problem permeating the American legal industry: That of contempt for oversight, respect, and standards of conduct. Even with the prospect of a war crimes indictment looming, the legal crew still refuses to show any signs of real remorse, reconciliation, or respect for their attorney standards of conduct. This warrants an upward adjustment in the sentencing and should be considered by the war crimes tribunal .
May 7, 2008 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
As you read any letter from the VP Counsel, remember one thing: They are a public servant, they took an oath to the US Constitution. Their number one loyalty, on paper for legal purposes is the US Constitution.
In practice, and in alleged breach of the Constitution, attorneys will put their client before the Constitution, and, where possible, attempt to breach all laws and rules to defend their client. In court, they're allowed to do many things: The adversarial system is designed to check these abuses. In theory, the court will manage the attorney.
The problem they run into is when they make out of court statements; and foreget that they are not making a court motion. Sometimes legal counsel will forget this, and believe that they are in court, and can get away with things. The have to wear two hats: One hat to prepare for litigation; and a second hat, of public relations. Their litigation hat means writing letters they know will be presented to court; their PR-hat means reducing losses, and making the other side suffer more losses. Victory is not required when you can make the other side lose more than you did.
This crew has nothing to lose. They're already implicated in alleged war crimes. They've shown they will kill people in the blink of an eye, and will order war crimes. It means nothing for them to lie to the court, destroy evidence, or start an illegal war as a distraction.
This is a different situation. We're not in court, yet. But these letters will be before a war crimes tribunal.
When we're talking about media relations for a war cries tribunal, the two counsel for the legislature and executive are positioning themselves to appear to be acting in good faith; but have one goal: To obstruct the other side, without getting any sanction. The goal of both of the counsel is to make the other side lose.
Their goal is not to help anyone. Their only goal is to create the illusion of comity so they can avoid a judicial decision against their client; but provoke he other side to appear to be acting in a manner less than civil. In that spirit, the VP's counsel's original letter should be seen for what it was" A convoluted attempt to delay, confuse, and meander. They overtly stated they were concerned, but their legal analysis showed no respect for the other side. They were doing their job: Being lawyers, creating confusion, and doing everything they could to appear one thing, but do the opposite.
Having said that, let's look at the attorney standards of conduct, and attempt to make sense of the convoluted non-sense from the VP counsel's office. We start from the premise that this is a litigation, not reliable information, but made with one objective: To slow roll public knowledge and debate of war crimes issues that would undermine President McCain, now Senator McCain from broadly asserting power. All the players in DOJ OLC and OVP counsel should be expected to carry over into McCain's Administration. Their only goal is to protect the GOP from war crimes; and in return secure judicial appointments to legalize more war crimes. Their idea of change is to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and do more of what is objectionable.
May 7, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's state the obvious: We haven't yet touched the letter. For now, let's keep one thing clear: The oath of office to the US Constitution includes treaty obligations and FISA. When an attorney promises to enforce the supreme law and defend the Constitution from domestic enemies, they are promising to defend the Constitution against their peers in the legal profession who advocate for war crimes.
This didn't happen.
This is another way of saying many legal counsel have a problem. They didn't do their jobs, as they promised, to preserve the Constitution and all treaty obligations.
May 7, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, we haven't yet touched the letter. There are two principles to recall: First, FISA is a legal requirement. Second, the Geneva Conventions are a ban against all POW abuse.
Let's deal with Geneva first. There are two prongs to Geneva, both apply. First, the Conventions act as a shield to the POWs. This means POWs have protections under Geneva. POWs can expect to be treated humanely and free of abuse. This is an assumption of warfare. When someone surrenders, or is taken out of the fight, they no longer have the means to wage war. A POW is defenseless. This dos not mean that POWs cannot attempt to resist. Resistance is expected, and protected. However, the detaining power may punish that POW for attempts for escaping or abusing Guards.
Second, the Conventions are a leash on the detaining power. This means the US, as a detaining power, is constrained from doing things.
This means even if a prisoner "has no rights", the second prong imposes a leash on the United states as a detaining power.
This is another way of saying that even if Addington and Yoo convinced themselves that the Taliban and others were "unlawful combatants," this does not mean the US Geneva obligations as a detaining power evaporated.
GEneva rights of a POW overlap with Geneva responsibilities on the detaining power. This means that even if the US said that a given enemy was "unlawful", that determination of an "unlawful combatant" cannot be asserted: It must be adjudicated. This means that the President, on his own, cannot simply classify a group of POWs as "unlawful combatants", deny them rights, then prosecute them.
The reverse has to happen. First, the POWs must be treated humanely. Then, at trial, after charges and lawful trial, the POWs can be then reclassified as "unlawful combatants" and punished.
Adingont's problem is that he advocated for the former, and ignored the latter. He said, in so many words, that a class of combatants were unlawful, and without trial or charges, could be treated inhumanely. Addington allegedly ignored the second prong: That of the detaining power's obligations to first treat the POW humanely, then provide a tribunal that would lawfully review evidence and classify that POW as an "unlawful combatant".
Adddington and others did the opposite: They denied rights without a trial; conducted trials that did not meet Geneva requirements; and expected the world to roll over. Wrong. Once Addington, YOo, Gonzalez and others assented to Geneva violations, then other powers may impose like violations: Summary accusations without trial, and declare anyone an unlawful combatant.
By not meeting US obligations under Geneva, Addington and others allegedly opened the door to reciprocal violations against similarly detained-without charges American civilians. On accusation alone, any American civilian can be called an "enemy combatant" and tortured anywhere around the globe.
Nuremberg established that legal counsel can be prosecuted for doing this: Denying GEneva protections, or writing memoranda that would explain it away. Perversely, the Nazi lawyers attempted to enforce the laws of war, but were rebuked. Addington and others went beyond that, and did something some Nazi lawyers never imagined: overtly calling for a suspension of Geneva, and refusing to meeting Geneva obligations. The Nazi lawyers were concerned that if they abused POWs, German POWs would be abused. This does not address the Holocaust, which are a different class of war crime: Crimes against humanity. This in no way attempts to excuse what the Nazis did, nor paint the Nazi lawyer as nice people. Rather, Addington did something that some Nazi lawyers refused to do: Suspend Geneva.
Addington, YOo, and Gonzalez are in for a wild ride. They've well set themselves up for a problem.
May 7, 2008 10:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's deal with the first issue: FISA. Addington well knows the Watergate Abuses. He was there when Cheney was wandering the halls with the Iran-Contra affair. Addington in the Iran-Contra Minority Report cut and paste from the case law to arrive at some perverse legal conclusions. If you read the Minority Report, first start with the citations, and notice how he's selectively parsed the case law and quotes. It doesn't add up.
Addington learned from Cheney in the wake of Watergate what happens when a President is challenged: Bad things happen for those who violate the law. Addington's goal since then has to ensure others do not get caught. This means hiding illegal activity behind claim of privilege; and asserting that anyone working for the US government discussing these war crimes is engaging in "illegal" conversations. Your job as a reader is to not miss the distraction: This is about war crimes, and nothing else. Adddington and others are pointing to "terrorism" to distract you from what they've allegedly done: Ignored Geneva and the US Constitution. Said another way, he's allegedly given policy advice to encourage the abuse of POWs, American civilians, and condoned the destruction of the Constitution. He's not a very nice person. That's why he rides the metro, and didn't graduate from Annapolis.
If he appears and testifies, remember Gonzalez statements on FISA. It was convoluted non-sense. This is what happens when someone is attempting to retroactively justify something that is illegal. Regardless what direction you attempt to discuss the issue, the argument will soon fall apart. The only way Addington will be able to keep a straight face is if he repeats non-sensical assertions about power, the law, and the US Constitution. His goal isn't to help Congress. His aim is to distract attention from his alleged war crimes problem and secure a McCain Presidency, and undermine public confidence in the DNC and Congress. The same legal team working to support Cheney's VP selection will be preparing Addington for the real issue: How to minimize losses in re Geneva issues and FISA. The telecoms should be presumed to be providing extensive practice sessions on answers about the FISA immunity questions. Canned answers will not be able to address specific questions from Congress about the DOJ and OVP emails to the telecoms, which director Mueller's classified testimony reveals.
Addington's goal with Cheney has been to restore the imperial Presidency, and broadly assert power. It is our view that the Congress should reciprocate, and use Legislative Orders to similarly assert Legislative Power.
There's nothing stopping the Speaker of the House from acting like President: And broadly work to expand Congressional power to match that of the President. Note, we're not saying create new power, but to broadly assert power expansively. Anything Addingon advocated the President or VP should do should have been matched by a matching assertion of power by the Speaker. This hasn't happened.
May 7, 2008 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Make no mistake about this VP Counsel letter: It is directly linked with alleged war crimes, and violations of the Oath of office. Addington's problem is 32 CFR 2800 which imposes a legal duty to retain data. This non-sense about whether the VP's office is or isn't an agency is irrelevant. 32 CFR 2800 is a legal requirement for Addington and OVP to comply in retaining records.
Even if we were to believe the non-sense that the WH and contractors were "transferring" emails, OVP cannot explain why it also is missing the same emails. It defies reason that the White House would "transfer" all emails across the WH, DOJ, and OVP. That's silly. There allegedly is no "retention" program, but a destruction program.
The real answer is in the JCON data. This is the DoJ database which retain the DOJ Staff emails they sent to the White HOuse. JCON wasn't updated. WHen you look for the "missing" emails from DOJ to the White House, and you can't find them in the JCON, you know there's been evidence destruction. If you want the contract number, what's involved, and how the data files are configured, you're going to have to ask. There are people who have this information, who do not work for the Vice President, and can be subpoenaed.
May 7, 2008 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here are the DC Attorney Standards of Conduct. These are rules about how attorneys must act. There are some rules related to tribunals, which apply in the case of Congress.
Before digging into the VP COunsel letter, it will be useful to look quickly at some of these rules.
May 7, 2008 10:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
This rule touches on issues having some bearing to the Congressional review of Congress. I encourage you to read the narrative.
(Pausing, while you quickly skim the rule at the link. Yes, your head will hurt if you try to understand it. Just get a flavor for he language.)
Welcome back. Notice a few things: It's convoluted. There are exceptions. Things are vague.
By design. There's wiggle room. "Subject to interpretation." In other words, the rule says one thing, but like the tax code, you can frame an effort to corrupt congress as an "acceptable" practice.
Mind you, we're not discussing (yet) the rules of Congress. Just the attorney standards of conduct, and whether they really do or do not mean something.
May 7, 2008 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you want to see some evidence the DC rules are worthless, look at this:
An attorney who was disbarred in one court or jurisdiction for misconduct only warranted censure, not disbarment, from the DC court.
That means if you get suspended from one jurisdiction, you might be able to keep practicing law in the District of Columbia. Why should any attorney take seriously any disbarment effort anywhere, when they might face only a letter of censure in DC?
This is the problem the DOJ OLC and Addington have created: Not only do they allegedly ignore GEneva, but their view of the attorney standards is one of discretion: "Hay, even if I'm caught, they can't touch me."
Well, Addington has a surprise. War. Crimes. Prosecutor.
And something else: No. Statute. Of. Limitations.
And Nuremberg.
In so many words, the American legal community has contempt not only for the laws of war, but for the very oversight system supposedly disciplining lawyers for war crimes. Addington views himself above the law because lawyers in DC face meaningless consequences in DC if they are disbarred elsewhere.
It's analogous to a group of Nazi thugs who get punched in the face in Poland, and rampage through Czechoslovakia to make them feel better about themselves. Same goes for Addington an Afghanistan: His solution failed, so broaden the abuse to Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Eastern Europe, and Guatanamo.
Again, it would be unfair to Compare Addington to the Nazis. That would give the Nazi lawyers are bad reputation.
May 7, 2008 11:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are two issues here: First, the war crimes trial hasn't started; second, anything the DOJ OLC can spew forth now is fair game to muddy the waters.
Putting aside DC has no interpretation of this rule on trial publicity, if we were dealing with an oversight system for lawyers, there would be something that would make false statements to Congress, but not directly to Congress, subject to discipline.
May 7, 2008 11:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
This rule relates to the VP counsel memoranda in re misrepresentations.
May 7, 2008 11:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
This rule relates to how someone, allegedly writing a defective memo, could be sanctioned under the DC Rules.
Again, if counsel is practicing under a different jurisdiction, the DC Rules don't mean anything.
Also note that these aren't simply issues of "the DC disciplinary board", but these are cases. Lawyers monitoring lawyers.
If the system worked, we'd have lawyers reviewing work products and not advocating for alleged war crimes. The issue isn't simply how the alleged war crimes were supported, but how Congressional staff counsel failed to challenge their peers.
The argument of "this is just politics" is trial in light of Nuremberg. No, these are issues of international war crimes, allegedly attached to DOJ OLC legal memoranda, and allegedly have Addington's fingers all over them. This mess has dragged on since 2001, for seven [7] years. And this crew wants to export this "model" of governance outside the United States?!? Nobody should be surprised why other combatants in battle resist the American approach.
May 7, 2008 11:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
IF VP Counsel wants to pretend there was an attorney client relatonship, we need to see evidence that the precedent of Nixon -- binding legal counsel to disclose information, because they work for the public -- does not apply.
May 7, 2008 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
This rule relates to Addington: It refers to prior work Addington did as VP Counsel.
May 7, 2008 11:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
This rule shows there is no absolute "attorney-client" privilege. It can be trumped by the "compelling need"-standard. It depends.
Here's something that, taken in light of the alleged war crimes, would destroy Addington's claim of privilege:
This takes us back to how the DOJ OLC memoranda was written. Subsequent disclosure have "legalized" the POW abuse because someone did "not intend" to commit a crime. That's convoluted non-sense.
Once anyone departs Geneva, they're on unstable ground. It will be an issue for the war crimes prosecutor to adjudicate: To what extent DOJ OLC legal memoranda and other OVP memos were designed to circumvent GEneva and commit crimes.
Also, it will be relevant whether the memos were written before the planned crimes; or after the crimes had been committed. It appears the memos were retroactively written, but were designed to appear to be prospective shields going forward. This shows a state of mind of intent, and not simple carelessness or unintentional error.
Recall the convoluted story we heard from the US Attorney in re the Wecht Juror list: They said they "derived" that list from the prospective jurors. That means the US Attorney didn't have the original list. This means their assertion isn't a defense, but evidence of a calculating state of mind.
Similarly, the same kind of problem exists for Addington. He's alleged to have supported moving the POWs to Europe to avoid Guantanamo issues; but when the Supreme Court found the POWs were protected by Geneva, they moved the Prisoners to Guantanamo from Eastern Europe. However, the problem is DOJ OLC would have us believe the POW treatment was "lawful", so there never should have been any concern that the POWs would ever challenge their detention, nor that they would object to whether they were being held. Addington has to explain why, despite the "legal" treatment, they wanted to hide what was "legal". He cannot.
This doesn't mean Addington committed any crimes, only that the record has many inconsistencies; and Addington's explanations will have to be artfully written. He'll be parsing to dance around Geneva, the DC Standards of Conduct, and still shield the President and others from war crimes implications, then blame Congress. It's not likely he's going to voluntarily say anything.
May 7, 2008 11:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're also going to see something very strange when it comes to issues of the 4th Amendment. Addington and others essentially explained away the 4th Amendment for FISA violations.
However, everything they said about FISA gets turned on its head. Why? Because Addington is now going t rely on the very Constitution he said didn't apply to America. Addington's goal is to pretend that this standard does not apply; but the privilege exists, while claiming there was no crime on the grounds of "vague Geneva"-standard.
They're trying to convince themselves that they "didn't mean" to commit a crime. To convince themselves of this, they'ver written the rules abuot POW abuse to say, "It wasn't torture."
That. Is. Ir. Rel. E. Vant. GEneva is silent on whether or not something is torture; GEneva expreslsly prohibits all abuse. However, the memoranda in the FISA immunity email mentions the "intentional outrage"-standard. Notice the distraction: from the activity, to whether or not someone's reactoin to that POW abuse was outrageous or not. It's a feeble attempt to explain away a crime or knowlege of it.
Again, we go back to Nuremberg: Would a reasonable person know that this treatement of a human being was or wasn't lawful or civilized. Nuremberg establisehd that superior orders are no defense; but defendats must show that they reasonably relied on these orders.
The problem is that people had doubts about what they were doing, as evidenced by the separate reports. One goal of VP Counsel will be to say these doubts were not reasonable, isolated, but the majority overwhelming believed they were doing the right thing. Nazis argued the same and were executed after conviction for war crimes.
Now consider this:
Addington's problem is he doesn't know -- for sure -- what alleged war crimes evidence exists that would invoke the exception trumping the claim of attorney-client privilege. It's an issue of timing. Some members of the CIA are working with the EU to secure this information related to rendition.
That's where you come in. DOJ OLC is being targeted for war crimes discovery and JCON review. Also, CIA is cooperating with the EU. Your assistance is needed to secure any evidence about DOJ OLC state of mind, their discussions, or whether they timely distanced themselves.
AG Mukasey's latest comment that he did not plan to enforce Geneva because he believed the DOJ OLC memo was "correct" isn't a defense. Those memos were withdrawn; and DOJ OLC has been shown to make errors. That's why the issue with the 46 Patent Attorney is important: DOJ AG, DOJ OLC, and OVP now cannot argue that DOJ OLC is right, or that they reasonably relied on DOJ OLC.
Subsequent disclosures, but a pattern of inaction after 2001 make Addington's defense more difficult. It's harder for him and his legal counsel to justify confidence that what he is saying, or what DOJ OLC are arguing in memos about what is lawful or not, should or should not be believed. It appears as though they well know the Geneva issues and legal basis to have attorney-client privileged stripped when there are efforts to use privilege to commit crimes.
The goal is not to protect a secret, but to create the illusion that there will be "adverse effects" if the President "can't" get his "independent' view. That's non-sense. DOJ OLC memo shows, even when the President was told that POW abuse was permissible, the President said he would enforce Geneva, but his actions contradicted his own words. This lends support to the argument the memo wasn't written to legalize anything, but to create a smokescreen of a shield to hide evidence of the alleged war crimes. They've used a ruse to hide evidence; then used that shield to pretend the war crimes cannot be discovered. Their problem is they've failed to seal all the evidence.
Let's walk you through this. This is important. Once it can be shown the legal counsel hoped to suppress information that was publicly known, but cast it as an "illegal disclosure" -- to thwart inquiry-- the President's defense will crack, as will Addington's. That's the problem they now have: They're claiming the "only" way evidence could have been developed was using illegal surveillance of the Vice President, outside counsel, and the contractors.
What they don't realize is that there were lawful methods used to secure alleged war crimes evidence; but the information was packaged to make the VIce President and President's counsel believe it was only obtained through illegal methods. They took the bait, attempt to claim the disclosure was illegal, but in making this assertion, they failed to adequately refute the truth of the information: There were alleged war crimes, thereby trumping their claim of privilege because of this exception.
This is the problem the DOJ OLC legal counsel now have, which explain why they've been using personal laptops, not recording information on the JCON, but have been reluctant to confront the House Judiciary overtly. Despite the leaks from Congress, they do not know what is really going on. DOJ OLC legal counsel is stuck. They know it. They know we know it. Their goal will be to surprise. That is coming.
May 8, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Keep in mind where we are on this letter. What we've done up until now is two things:
1. Discussed the Geneva Conventions and FISA;
2. Reviewd the Attorney Standards of COnduct.
Addington and Yoo have allegedly engaged in frivolous legal memoranda, which, under normal times, could attache legal counsel to that subsequent illegal activity.
We've also looked at some of th DC Bar rules related to tribunals. As you can see, there is room for maneuver.
We've also seen that there is a litigation goal of pretending that the legal memoranda is privileged; and hide the connection between that legal memoranda and the subsequent illegal activity. The aim is to show that the memoranda were not linked with an intentional effort to commit a crime.
This defies reason, given the convoluted timelines, nonsensical statements, and refusal of DOJ OLC to immediately retract the memo.
Putting all that aside, DOJ AG's statements in 2008 is less about a credible policy, but in pretending that the DOJ OLC memoranda were not linked with criminal activity. Allegedly they were. The DOJ AG's decision is allegedly a subsequent decision failing to meet his GEneva obligations.
Their goal isn't to just shield evidence, to make it impossible for others to use the crime-fraud exception to the attorney-client privilege. That's where the to-be-disclosed evidence comes in. Right now, outside counsel are on a fishing trip to secure, suppress, discredit, and block any war crimes related evidence; and break the link, in the mind of the court, that the privilege was used to advance crimes and fraud.
Once we compare the data from Gonzalez at the Feb 2006 SEnate Judiciary hearing in re FISA; with the information from FBI director in his classified Memo, we'll see the problem: The alleged crimes surface when we look at the record: Things do not match. On one hand Gonzalez was asserting it was lawful; yet, the FBI director's classified memo shows which telecoms were involved. The two do not reconcile.
The same problem exists with the POW treatment. We're asked to believe the DOJ OLC memo "legalized things." If that's true -- that the DOJ OLC memo "legalized" POW abuse, then there is no credible explanation why Addington and others wanted to hide the Prisoners in Eastern Europe.
In truth, the POWs were in Europe to stay out of a judicial review. That failed. Now the problem Addngton has is explaining why the POWs "legal treatment" was not retained on the CIA tapes. Again, the issue is simple: If the DOJ OLC memo which "legalized" the POW treatment as lawful, there would be no reason to destroy the CIA tapes. That tape would, in the view of DOJ OLC, "only" show "lawful" activity. But they destroyed it, despite knowing the JAG concerns going forward from 2003 about war crimes. DOJ OLC, CIA general Counsel and WH Counsel with OVP knew, or should have known going forward from 2001 that the tapes would be subpoenaed. IN fact, the 9-11 COmmission did ask for information on the interrogations, but no tapes were provided. Once someone knows a subpoena is coming, they have a duty to retain that data. This was not allegedly done in re OVP, CIA tapes, and the POW abuse evidence.
Said another way, it appears someone believe, despite the potential obstruction of justice issue in re war crimes, that they would rather destroy evidence, than retain it. The problem they have is that subsequent act is linked with adverse inferences, and in some cases, the original data isn't needed. There are other lines of evidence well supporting the some conclusion: The DOJ OLC memoranda was written to implement war crimes; and that the DOJ OLC claim of privilege is trumped by the crime-fraud exception.
The most reasonable conclusion: There are other examples where the DOJ OLC memo said one thing; but the US government actions clearly shows they were worried about war crimes. If they truly believed the DOJ OLC memo was "legal cover" then there is no reasonable explanation for the concern.
DOJ OLC's problem is that it knows its own memoranda do not reconcile with the US government's actions; and that there is a reasonable basis to strip Addington of the attorney-client privilege claim under this alleged crime-fraud nexus.
May 8, 2008 12:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
There's also something else that is going on that relates to FISA. Reynolds permits classification of things when there is a substantial connection between national security and safeguarding that secret. "Substantial" isn't what you would think it should mean.
When we say "substantial" in every day conversation, that mens alot, quite a bit. From a lawyer's perspective, "substantial" can be as little as 1%. IT changes from something that seems alot, to something that is barely measurable. A 'substantial" national security interest can, in truth, be speculative, because it is up to the other party to prove that the US government is making a dubious claim.
Fortunately, the presumption of good faith is not absolute, and can be disproven. This means that someone can show that an affidavit is false, and should not be accepted as good faith because of other real, nonspeculative evidence. This can be done if there is open source information, or other public evidence.
That's why the DOJ OLC released memos are important: They paint a picture that the DOJ OLC counsel are not acting in good faith, are lying, and continue to deceive the court on the White House email retention, the JCON data, rendition, POW abuse.
The key problem is comparing the DOJ OLC memo -- that supposdly "legalized" things -- with the evidence contradicting that assertrion: Evidence that people were acting as if the conduct was not lawful; or that they knew there was a problem; or they blocked reviwes of "acceptable" behavior. Where the US was supposedly doing teh "right" thing, the US did not permit ICRC inspections; "ethical" treatment of POWs isn't supported by the CIA tapes getting destroyed or Rumsfelds comments to remove the gloves. This is why the Sanchez audit is still classified: There's allegedly more bad news for Addington.
The problem the US government has is when it captures people, take them prisoner, denies them a chance to defend themselves, removes them from the fight, but then continues waging war against them while they are held as a POW. That is uncivilized.
Some suggest that they were "holding" the information. That defies reason. There was a bounty program. People in Pakistan were paid to turn in their civilian neighbors but call them "war criminals".
Here's the problem for the US as a detaining power. It is a war crime to put a price on the enemy's head. Geneva prohibits this because bounties would induce civilians -- protected under GEneva -- to engage in combat-related activities. The ban on bounties is designed to dissuade civilians from taking up arms, engaging in combat-related act, and being denied all their Geneva protections.
The US error was to pay civilians substantial money -- there's that word again, "substantial" -- to detain people. Let's face it, if you're making no money raising goats, and someone offered you thousands of dollars to snitch on an annoying neighbor, and they would disappear, what might you think someone might do? They did that.
Unfortunately, seven years after capture, those civilians are getting released. They're talking. And the world knows about the illegal bounties, and the fact that civilians were held -- illegally -- without charges, and abused.
It doesn't matter if there is or isn't evidence of POW abuse per se. The evidence strong supports the conclusion the US government had a policy of ignoring GEneva, explanation it away, and inducing civilians to engage in prohibited acts that stripped them of their GEneva protections. Mukasey's statements in 2008 of that decision not to fully enforce Geneva help seal the deal and is not a credible defense of DOJ OLC; nor does it adequately explain away the alleged fraud-crime exception to privilege. He and others are engaging in alleged overt criminal, fraudulent acts to shield things they hope to say are not linked with fraud.
The point of the above isn't that this is going slowly, but the opposite: Despite no statute of limitations, the DOJ OLC legal memoranda are contradicting the very things Mukasey is saying about what he will or will not enforce. Inaction isn't a defense, but an alleged subsequent war crime, but on the record. Then we back step, from this known alleged illegal activity, prove it, then work on the alleged information hiding that illegal activity, then disclose it, then backstep again to the other evidence supposedly hidden to hide fraudulent activity. It doesn't matter if it takes time: There is no statute of limitations for war crimes.
Your job as a reader is to remain focused on one things: Different lines of evidence in 2008 need to be compared with other information from other years. We don't need (yet) information that's still hidden. All that needs to happen is to use the available information, show there is a public fraud, then backstep to the information the hope to shield. Their defenses are falling apart, just as Hitler's defenses collapsed as the allied forces marched toward Berlin.
The ke will be to recognize the potential value of new information in the context of destroying the war crimes defense, penetrating the shield, and showing there is new evidence of a fraud that has been shielded to hide illegal activity; and show the claims of "State secrets" are dubious, and not linked with a credible interest to protect national security, but something else: Suppress war crimes evidence. This is a mess the DOJ OLC must now confront. They alone chose this path. Our job is to confront them lawfully as was done on the FISA violations, rendition, POW abuse, and other alleged war crimes.
May 8, 2008 12:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
The point of the above isn't to say, "This is the law" or "They committed a crime," but something very subtle: To give you a taste of some of the factors going through the OVP legal counsel's mind when they drafted their letter to the House Judiciary Counsel.
It is not a simple letter. The goal is to shield war crimes evidence, and make the Congress lose in forcing Congress to show that there is a compelling need; and hide evidence the activity is linked with criminal activity.
Overall, the DOJ OLC memos have "legalized" things, but the US government's conduct does not suggest anyone genuinely believed he POW abuse or FISA violations were lawful. No, they were explained away using dubious, allegedly frivolous legal reasons.
The Qwest refusal to cooperate is an example of how the US government's direction was not "obviously" lawful. Some had some reasonable doubts. Anther problem for DOJ OLC.
May 8, 2008 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
With the above in mind, let's read the OVP letter.
May 8, 2008 12:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
OVP Counsel has authenticated the letter by referencing another letter. We can put this in a timeline.
May 8, 2008 12:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
The legal views of OVP counsel, as referenced, have been discredited. We need not take them seriously.
May 8, 2008 12:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Send para, OVP counsel is dancing around privilege, and painting the issue as a nebulous s "protection" of the VP.
This is non-sense. Once we invoke the crime-fraud exception, there is, self evidently, nothing to preserve by way of an "institution". It's an alleged criminal enterprise.
May 8, 2008 12:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is a misreading of the Constitution that there is any "power" of "blocking encoachment". That is illusory. The Framers intended overlapping powers to check.
OVP has no legal basis to demand the Congress explain the Constitution.
May 8, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is a misreading of the Constitution that there is any "power" of "blocking encoachment". That is illusory. The Framers intended overlapping powers to check. OVP has no legal basis to demand the Congress explain the Constitution.
It is a meaningless assertion, in light of the crime-fraud exception, to claim any attorney is immune to testifying.
Note OVP counsel has distracted the issue from "immunity from testifying" to whether or not there is immunity to appear. That immunity does not exist. The House rules permit enforcement actions against legal counsel for refusing to respond or appear. See Bolten/Miers contepmt citations.
It's irrelevant the AG says he will not enforce the statute. This is an alleged subsequent violation of his oath of office, and another alleged violation warranting impeachment of the AG. Never mind Congress removed that option illegally and refuses to defend the Constitution.
May 8, 2008 1:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
The law does not recognize a shield related to "official duties of the Vice President." Once the crime-fraud nexus is shown, as was done in re Libby name leak, the balance tilts away from the Vice President and Addington.
May 8, 2008 1:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
OVP cannot "invoke" privilege as an absolute decision. They can request it, and that request can be denied and trumped with the fraud-crime exception.
May 8, 2008 1:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
We make no comment, for now, whether OVP has or has not adequately characterized the Judiciary or correctly quoted the Judiciary letters in the first indented bullet.
Congress can ask any question and is not bound by any agreement to narrow inquiry. If Addington spills the beans, Congress may follow those beans where they roll.
May 8, 2008 1:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
The House is not bound to only three topics.
May 8, 2008 1:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Committee may ask any question, and is not bound by any VP-Presidential claim of shield. If the fraud-crime exception is proven, Addington must testify.
May 8, 2008 1:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
If the VP is abusing power from the Senate, the House may review that evidence during an impeachment trial. The House is not prohibited in is inquiry, and may accept information from the senate on alleged improper VP use of his Senate offices.
May 8, 2008 1:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
House is not required to be specific with any questions, nor provide advance questions to anyone.
May 8, 2008 1:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Discussing the "not in a position" to offer legal advice is meaningless drivel. The House may ask for input from anyone.
The House may ask for views, personal opinions, and even legal views of the witness. The House may evaluate whether Addington is fit for office or competent as an attorney.
The House may ask Addington anything it wants to evaluate whether Addington, as an attorney, is responsive. One line of questions about familiar legal issues would generate one type of response. These responses can be compared with other responses on other issues. OVP cannot restrain the House from evaluating the credibility of a witness relative to known, standard legal rules.
The public will see how effective Addington is when he's not bullying someone with allegedly reckless legal opinions on GEneva. Addington has been subpoenaed.
May 8, 2008 1:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
The House has well met its burden. OVP Counsel's citation of Barenblatt, as discussed, shows a misreading. The witness must be present to invoke the shield. It is not a bar from appearing. There is no merit to the OVP assertion.
This claim must be made in court. OVP has not adequately discussed Barenblatt. WE reject the notion the House owes OVP anything.
May 8, 2008 1:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
The House Judiciary COmmittee is a standing committee. It has no burden to show that it is correctly doing anything.
When OVP followed 32 CFR 2800, we might have a discussion about compliance.
May 8, 2008 1:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
OVP counsel has provided nothing to justify confidence that a delay is warranted.
May 8, 2008 1:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
OVP counsel has no exhausted its resources to fully comply with 32 CFR 2800.
May 8, 2008 1:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
The House does not work for the OVP.
The House subpoena stands on its own, and is unrelated to any letter, conditions, immunities, claimed privileges OVP may be referring. The House rules do not bind the COmmittee to attach to any hearing specific conditions only agreeable to the witness. If agreeable, the subpoena -- under penalty -- would not be required.
The Crime-Fraud exception applies wich may breach the claimed attorney-client privilege.
OVP has provided no legal uathority to compel the House to do antyhing before issuing any subpoena.
The OPV Counsel letter is meaningless drivel.
May 8, 2008 1:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
When OVP shows respect for the Constitution, the public might believe the OVP is concerned about Congress or the Congressional role in confronting the OVP.
The crime-fraud exception applies.
May 8, 2008 1:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
OVP has no power to set any conditions on how a witness will be interrogated before any Committee.
May 8, 2008 1:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
3 of 3
Addington FAX: (202) 456 6429
Outdated
Counsel to the Vice President Shannen Coffin
(202) 456-0387
Room 280 Eisenhower Executive Office Building
1650 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW,
Washington, DC 20502
Fax: (202) 456-6429
Fax is going to OVP legal counsel.
May 8, 2008 1:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wheelbarger
6th Street Flats Condominiums, DC
Shares with 29 other condos.
Bundy Development
Neighbors
Mark Chen, Boston Consulting Group
Mark Pfeifle US govt Public Affairs
DHS
Senior Executive Service Performance Review Board
October 10, 2006
OPM: 63.240.206.196/ses
COUNSELOR TO THE SECRETARY
DHS
May 8, 2008 2:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
We judge Addington most likely wrote the language related to limitations, rights privileges. He usually reserves rights for himself he denies to others.
May 8, 2008 2:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
AKA
"Katie"
Bridesmaid for "Robyn"
Cambridge
Santa Clarita
10K Runner
Approx 31 yrs old in 2008, about 24 in 2001
No reported cases, no legal scholarly work
Discovery: Disclosed Email, Email Account, Outside counsel communications
kwheelbarger@georgewbush.com
From:
Ryan P. Meyers
202 887 3635, Direct
202 530 9565, Direct Fax
rmeyers@gibsondunn.com
202-544-6338
202-641-7532
Senator Cronyn Meeting
October 10th, Pharr, Texas
Topic: International Boundary and Water Commission (IBWC) flood control levees
Others:
Department of Homeland Security (DHS) officials Ron Vietello,
Rio Grande Valley Sector Chief for U.S. Customs and Border Protection;
William Peterson, Administrator for FEMA Region VI
Katie Wheelbarger
May 8, 2008 2:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Possible FISA Immunity Connection
GIbson Dunn would like Meyers with James B. Comey (Deputy AG) of the FISA issues.
Need a subpoena of all emails into Gibson Dunn from Wheelbarger. Need dates of communications related to the FISA Immunity discussions, and Comey's coordination with outside counsel.
May 8, 2008 2:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here is the Theodore B. Olson testimony to Senate on Reporters' privilege, September 20, 2006
Olson is a partner with Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP.
Comey was an associate with associate for Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher, and as Deputy AG refused March 2004 to sign off on the NSA surveillance when AG Ashcroft was hospitalized.
Gison Dunn was reported to be involved with Wolfowitz compensation issue. The review included Bush’s previous Solicitor General Ted Olson, with Gibson Dunn.
May 8, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gibson Dunn is reported to be linked with Congressman Lewis:
May 8, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
May 8, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here is a link between an alleged agreement between GIbson Dunn and the White House to resolve the US Attorney Firing.
This reminds us of the White House emails linking Miers to the US Attorney firings:
May 8, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Doubts Yang "didn't know" about Gibson Dunn connection to the White House.
May 8, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
MCI hired Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP to conduct an internal review of its "call-termination practices".
May 8, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
MCI is reported to have cooperated with the NSA on the alleged domestic illegal surveillance.
May 8, 2008 11:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Disclosed White House conference call on FISA legislation, August 9 2007.
May 8, 2008 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!!
All beware the poster of this blog is a known spammer on TPM that throws unsubstantiated allegations on the news blogs that link to his unsubstantiated rants on this blog.
If you chose to leave a comment on his blog that does not agree with his conspiracy driven dribble, the blogger will in turn attack you. He has a history of flaming people throughout the TPM site.
He rants that anyone that disagrees with him is somehow connected to the DOJ, attempting to spread misinformation since the poster does not agree with him, attempts to connect the poster to another poster in a means of discrediting him/her, or attempts to claim the commenter is violating TPM policy for posting a divergent point of view.
While there may be some truth in the posting, it is only surely a result of pure accident on his part if there is so. Testing simply posts things he does not know about and then says because no one has stopped to explain the topic to him and the ins and outs, there must be a conspiracy.
Proceed at your own risk.
May 13, 2008 8:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
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May 14, 2008 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
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