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Clinton/RFK - Let's calm 'er down a little.
I resort to "blogs" (Where on earth did that word come from?) because I like to write , and because I think I occasionally have something interesting to contribute to the discussion.
At the best of times, I'm uncomfortable with the "mob" behavior so commonly exhibited on these sites . When something like today's scarecrow "crisis" - the Clinton/RFK "news" - inflates itself to crowd all the air out of any chance for real thought about matters of real importance, I find myself doubly embarrassed. I feel like one of the pitchfork-wielding villagers in the old Frankenstein movies, just by virtue of the fact that ANY participation in this zoo exhibitit (even to oppose) feels cheap. My only consolation is that this balloon will burst in a day or two, and we can all get back to baling hay and feeding the livestock.
I'm reminded of the line in Yeats' famous poem:
"The worst are full of passionate intensity,
While the best lack all conviction."
Sen. Clinton has an unfortunate habit, for a public political person: She talks too much in public when she's tired, and sometimes loses that self-editing function that keeps the kind of dumb things we ALL are prone to say confined to appropriate private settings. That is a serious political liability, and she is already paying a steep price for it.
What it is NOT, is any implication whatsoever that she wishes RFK's tragic fate on Sen. Obama. That is a criminal distortion of what was actually said. Anyone who is feigning indignation on that false basis to score a "point" is contemptible. (Not being a licensed physician, I have no adequate way of describing those who actually BELIEVE it).
I suggest (futilely I know, but in good faith) that we give it a break. We're making fools of ourselves. Any normal person reading this dialogue on this holiday weekend would cite us all for legal commitment. Let this thing blow over until something more substantial replaces it on Tuesday. Go grill a few hot dogs and drink a few beers.
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Comments (31)
I agree 100%. Not jumping on this shit and twisting it for the absolute worst implication is what makes Obama better than Clinton. It's also what should make Obamaniacs better than Clintonistas. Just enjoy the sidelined schadenfreuding guys, the media will do all the heavy lifting.
May 24, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's definitely been over-hyped, and I'll admit to contributing to that myself, but the vast majority of complaints aren't accusing her of wanting him dead so much as voicing the possibility of him being assassinated as a rationale for her staying in. Granted, there are a few crazies who think she really wants to see him killed, but make sure you don't think that everyone who is upset about this is upset for that reason.
Also, I think her "apology" angered those who were already upset even more as it was more of a non-apology.
May 24, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I found most aggravating about this South Dakota episode was her explanation afterward. From Olbermann's Special Comment yesterday, she said:
In the video, to my eyes, there was no sign of sincerity in her demeanor. She was like a 12 year old boy caught red handed doing something wrong. She was going through the motions because she had to. She obviously thought she didn't say anything wrong.
She seems to have no conception that her remarks were worse than poorly chosen. It's another sign of her hubris. Her "regret" "if" her remarks were "offensive" is a typical non-apology apology. It's Clintonian triangulation at its worst.
Now, I think Olbermann went more than just a tiny bit thermonuclear on her. But there really was no excuse for her repeatedly talking about "assassination". It's another example of her using damaging language for no reason other than for personal promotion at the expense of everything else. The perpetual "lack of sleep" excuse is not one - especially after her "3AM" ad.
I think it's such a big deal because, among other reasons, it's the last straw for many. Her chickens are coming home to roost.
With all of that said, I appreciate your comments. Thanks.
May 24, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. Her explanation is that she was references Bill and RFK's campaigning--NO SHE DIDN'T. She referenced Bill's campaign and RFK's assassination! It's like over and over again were supposed to forget what she said/did and accept what she substitutes--like the penalty for MI and FL! She endorsed it yet we're supposed to NOW believe that it is some conspiracy to steal the nomination from her! It's getting me all riled up again because she can't tell the farking truth when she must for the sake of her own reputation. You know, before yesterday I was still in the position that I would not hold any grudges towards her after Obama's nomination and now I just want her out of politics--or at least pull a Lieberman and switch sides. HUMPF!
May 24, 2008 6:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I feel like one of the pitchfork-wielding villagers in the old Frankenstein movies ...
"(Not being a licensed physician, I have no adequate way of describing those who actually BELIEVE it)."
Why described them when you have a pitchfork.
"Go grill a few hot dogs and drink a few beers."
What you should have done with your pitchfork.
May 24, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't drink and pitchfork.
May 24, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too funny!
May 24, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary's problem is that she makes political hay out of Obama's misspeaking. She readily jumped all over his "bigger/cling" comments in San Francisco and ran on it almost solely in Pennsylvania and didn't pause in labeling him an elitist. She seems to want it both ways - Obama's gaffes are fair political game, however hers should be overlooked and her explanations universally accepted.
May 24, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
*bitter(of course) - one shouldn't rely on spell check in place of proof-reading.
May 24, 2008 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
This post is so typical of this race. Bill and/or Hillary says something stupid and insensitive. It's someone else's fault for being offended by it (criminal distortion? Really?). Eventually Barack Obama and the media are blamed for it. The only break in the pattern that I see is the tepid, shameful "If I anyone took offense" apology. It must be misogyny again.
Hillary Clinton: The A-Rod of the 2008 Campaign.
May 24, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I should also ask: Were there any campaigns between 1992 and 1968 that were contested into June? Was there anything she could've referenced that didn't invoke assassination, particularly at a time when the Kennedy family has a great deal to handle emotionally? I can understand referencing 1992, since that speaks directly to her personal "experience", but if there is a rich history of lengthy contests, why did she need to make her fourth reference to the assassination of a Kennedy as justification for her continued presence on the scene?
May 24, 2008 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are right. I have seen several post (not here) where Obama is being blamed for the media jumping on this and it's used as another reason "why I will never vote for him" quotes.
This is why I don't believe we should waste time trying to pacify Hillary's stubborn supporters, we should just work to recruit new Obama supporters.
May 24, 2008 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just don't include one_wilson as one of those "stubborn supporters". Sure, I'm guessing he still thinks that Clinton would make a better president, but I'm fairly certain he's already stated that he will be supporting Obama in the general election if he is the Democratic candidate.
May 24, 2008 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. I would not want to discourage any Hillary supporter willing to support Obama in the GE and I certainly respect their right to view her as the better candidate. But there are some of her supporters (I know some of ours as well) who don't or won't hear anything bad about Hillary without trying to turn it into Obama's fault.
May 24, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to have to disagree. Hillary meant it as it sounded. The reason that's evident is because she's said it before. The message was, quite clearly, something could happen to Obama -- as it did to RFK -- and that's a good reason to stay in the race.
Rachel Maddow said, quite a while back, that Hillary Clinton was now in "understudy" mode, waiting for whatever might throw the frontrunner out of the race.
Including, it is clear from her comments, the worst-case scenario.
Sorry but, given the context, I can't see any other way to read a tendency to repeatedly bring up the assassination of RFK which, as Olbermann showed in his special comment, she's done.
This wasn't a gaffe and it wasn't sleep-deprivation. It was a ploy that backfired because she wasn't subtle enough, this time, in her phrasing.
May 24, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
As usual, it seems that the "Clinton crowd" and the "Obama crowd" are somewhat talking past each other. Note one_wilson's stated concern:
I think the vast majority of us in the Obama crowd agree with that statement, and it might put one_wilson (and others of the Clinton crowd) at ease if we make that perfectly clear.
May 24, 2008 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
What makes you believe she doesn't wish it on Obama, Ben Hocking?
A person who would vote to go to war -- with the certain knowledge that thousands will die or be maimed -- and do that on the basis of political calculation, such as Hillary did, might be capable of wishing for the kind of outcomes you and I couldn't imagine.
She also knew that cluster bombs kill children but decided not to vote to ban them. She voted for Kyl-Lieberman, a prelude to war with Iran (which she threatened to obliterate if they messed with Israel).
With a person who is willing to do all that, some of it guaranteed to result in the deaths of innocents, on the basis of political calculation, I have no doubt she'd, at the very least, wish her opponent dead. It would leave her what she'd see as a clear path to the presidency. As unpleasant at this may be to contemplate, it's in character.
May 24, 2008 3:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, it's not in character. As wrong as it is, people are inclined to discount violence against those they don't know much easier than against those they do. That she could authorize a flawed war in no way indicates that she wishes a fellow Senator dead, even if it would help her own career. I am unwilling to believe that of either candidate. Heck, I'm even unwilling to believe that of McCain.
May 24, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are we sure she has character?
May 24, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can understand that most people wouldn't think this was likely because most people tend to judge others by what they, themselves, would do. But I find it very much in character -- not for her to physically harm him, but certainly, to wish him harm, any kind of harm that would knock him out of the race. Including physical harm.
Everything she's done since beginning the kitchen-sink strategy has been designed to do harm, and damn the consequences to the party, the country and the world.
Most people couldn't conceive of doing/saying what Hillary has. But most people aren't obsessed with becoming president. Even those who are, would have given up when it was clear the odds were so greatly against them. Instead, with narrowing chances, she's spent millions of her own money to keep this quest going.
At the least, the very least, I believe, she hopes some tragedy befalls him. And, of course, she'd give a speech about what a great American he is, etc., and might cry real tears over him.
Doesn't change what's on her wish-list.
May 24, 2008 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. I think she meant exactly what she said. There has been a lot of talk about staying in the campaign because "anything can happen" between now and the convention and "anything" covers a lot of territory. I have to believe that they don't go into this type of a meeting with an editorial board without being prepared to answer certain questions. Certainly one of those questions at this point would relate to why she is still actively campaigning. So the question becomes -- did she say what she intended to say (and her supposed explanation of what she meant didn't even make sense actually, kind of talking apples and oranges and inaccurately at that), or did she slip and say what she was thinking but didn't intend to say. Unfortunately, this campaign has a history of saying outlandish things, then apologizing, but by then, the thought is alrady out in public and the damage is done. One could make an argument that this strategy is deliberate. Her apology was not an apology, nor was it an acknowledgement that she had said, inadvertently or otherwise, something outrageous. You'd think that someone around her might have realized shortly thereafter that she had made a horrible mistake and advised her accordingly. Apparently not.
May 24, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really think she is/was tired. I didn't take my pitchfork out of storage but I think an apology to Sen.Obama would be nice; perhaps she already did this through back channels and or off the record.
May 24, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
It doesn't matter what was in the person's mind when they yell Fire, in a crowded theater. It is not acceptable. Hillary knows that. She did it, despite the fact that she is fully aware that Senator Obama has been deluged with death threats, and on the heels of her "White Americans" dogwhistle. Shame on Hillary.
May 24, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Recommended. What I haven't liked about the Clinton campaign is their willingness to spin everything to death.
Clinton is winning!
Well, no she's not, but caucus states don't count!
Well, she's winning the popular vote!
Well, she *would* have won the popular vote!
Now, we're doing the same durn thing with this silly RFK flap.
Clinton used assassination as a reason to stay in the race!
Well, maybe that's not clear, but anyway even mentioning the word assassination is unacceptable!
Well, at any rate, it's terrible taste to use the word when Ted Kennedy just got out of the hospital!
Let's give it a rest. What makes us better than the Right is our skepticism -- our willingness to look skeptically at our own assumptions, and our unwillingness to stretch a point just because it confirms something we'd like to believe. Our reaction to this gaffe has not been displaying those virtues at their best.
May 24, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for your gutless concern, Greg.
May 24, 2008 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Gutless concern" I understand. "Greg" I don't.
May 24, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, I don't believe she wishes Obama physical harm; however I am not happy with the implication that she's staying in the race in case something bad happens to him allowing her to step in.
Having said that, I don't think I need to keep pounding on this. It's almost over and I honestly (at this moment at least) do not hate Hillary and don't really want to see her ruined. When I see her looking so miserable it still has the ability (believe it or not) to make me feel sad because I don't really want to believe that the Clintons I supported for so long are really bad people.
Of course tomorrow she may do something to change my mind again.
May 24, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
(hic)
Recommended!!!
May 24, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
To those Obama supporters that are hyperventilating over this..."You are the hysteria you've been waiting for."
May 24, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
That didn't take long. As I predicted earlier, it's our fault. Wait another 20 minutes and the tape was edited. Wait two more hours and Obama said it.
May 24, 2008 5:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
So...your hysteria over her factual statement is her fault? Typical...
May 25, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
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