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Camille Paglia Nails Hillary Again
She Won't Go Easy
Slate.com
5/14/08
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/05/14/tarantella/print.html
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She Won't Go Easy
Slate.com
5/14/08
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/05/14/tarantella/print.html
Comments (32)
Highly rec'd.
May 14, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I read it this morning and loved Camille's honesty -- not to mention her wit.
May 14, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
The article starts out pretty great, but what the hell happened in the second half of the piece? It's like she forgot what she was writing about. Digression can be an interesting literary device, but aren't you supposed to get back to the subject at hand at some point?
May 14, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
True, true, but being a music lover I sort of enjoyed it. What it had to do with Hillary, I haven't a clue, but I'd love to sit down with Camille and listen to her vinyl collection.
May 14, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love her explanation for why certain folks are more susceptible to the Talk Radio spin than others:
Ahhhh, that 'splains it! The fact that I'm trapped in front of this computer, forces me to actually READ in order to become informed.
May 14, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm...what happened to my blockquote?
May 14, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really like the idea of recognizing Wright's rants as satirical (since I think they do have an element of that to them). Sad that it's a kind of satire white folks will never understand.
May 15, 2008 7:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for linking to this, otherwise I would have missed it. I don't happen to agree with many of her points here, but, as always, Camille is the great motormouth pouring forth tons of delightful metaphors and analogies.
hrebendorf says:
Digression is a Camille specialty. It's the way her brain works. If you don't like someone who thinks like internet surfing works, you'll always be unhappy with her work. If you want to see a master of stream of consciousness at work, listen to her being interviewed by anyone.
I would suspect people who despise the concept of "truthiness" and go exclusively by "just the facts" are never going to like Paglia. Bright minds who have delved deeply into comparative culture and/or comparative mythology will always end up sounding "truthy," because they have found out that there is no "truth" to be found at the bottom of the huge pile they are continually digging through, only interrelated thoughts. Joseph Campbell is another good example of this. The idea is that they are not expecting you to totally buy into their version of truthiness as "fact", just to use it to get your own neural networks flowing.
May 14, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Had a soft spot for Camille Pablum since the first book.
As for "there's no 'truth' to be found at the bottom," please go to the top floor, and jump off. Find the truth of Gravity at the bottom. Have it remarked upon during your eulogy.
I find the 'no truth' folk are always SocSci degrees like CP, convinced that because they're not tall enough to touch bottom at the shore they're tossed on, that there must not be a bottom, and anyone tall enough to claim there is one must be oppressing someone to be standing that tall, and speaking that assuredly.
Face it. There's a bottom to facts, which point the way. For faith, see 'Religion.'
Thanks for writing.
May 14, 2008 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought camile paglia was dead?
May 14, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, she just LOOKS like she is dead. sorry.
May 14, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Grow up, Louisville.
May 14, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
God(dess) help me, I'm going to agree with Louisville1975. I loathe Paglia. She is a self-involved, self-promoting, anti-feminist who was the absolute darling of the Republican Right Wing for her rants against feminists. Her writing is immature and tortured and academically suspect, and when she makes a point, one must wade through so much irrelevant manure, it's not worth digging to find it. She deliberately misconstrues feminist writers and feminism to give her some straw woman to rail against. She is hardly someone I would consider a credible source for much of anything.
All that being said, Paglia (finally) happens to agree with me and thousands of other feminists (including ones she dismisses like Alice Walker) who supported Obama long before she did, and who have publicly fought the feminist fight against Hillary Clinton's destructive usurpation of "feminism" and "sisterhood" for her own personal ambitions. Clinton has actually, recklessly, set back the advance of feminism (in which ever wave you happen to fall).
May 15, 2008 4:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
The pugilist feminist speaks!
Thanks for the link.
For me, the best I had read re: feminists on this election, were Rebecca Walker, Pollit and Naomi Wolf. Now I'll add Paglia to the list.
May 14, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
As for there being a bottom to facts, I don't think so. What are facts? Who gets to determine what a "fact" says and how it should be interpreted? Are "facts" somehow supposed to be representative of some immutable, external reality? And who determines what that external reality is? And if it's external--which means it must be mind-independent--then how can we ever decipher it even if it did exist?
Based on the simple "fact" (couldn't help the pun) that so-called facts have to be interpreted by someone means that they necessarily have to be infused with values, purposes, a certain paradigm, etc, which would then make them subjective, not objective. Facts are not facts until we say they are, and even then we could be wrong. But, then again I believe that truth is something that happens to an idea or "fact" rather than something that is intrinsic to it.
Ideas become "true" through inquiry and validation (which in itself is a cultural construction) and even then it is only a contingent truth insofar as further inquiry may call that "truth" into question. There is no Absolute Truth, and if there is we can never know it.
May 14, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why not do a blog post on this? A wee bit of philosopherizing can't hurt...
May 14, 2008 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Although we may "not know" them, absolute truths do exist . There are some well-characterized properties inherent in the fabric of the universe. (I also believe in the existence of absolute beauty.)
I wouldn't say she's brilliant, but I do find Camille's perspective interesting at times. She said one thing I thought was spot-on--the Clintons' decade in the White House was the 1990s. It's time for them to step aside and give way to a new generation of leaders.
May 14, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is difficult to get around the simple fact of existence. If you did not exist, than it would not be possible to ponder your own existence - or the sheer befuddlement it causes you.
From this indisputable fact all other facts are derived. Ultimately facts are the mechanism by which existence is defined.
Just because you can not identify them, does not mean that these facts do not exist - because you yourself exist and that existence has definition thereby proving the axiom. And if indeed you are an illusion of my own existence - and not a fact - the fact remains that I exist, and the interaction with you is defined by facts that I don't yet understand.
Cogito ergo sum - I think, therefore I am.
From there, we are able to step back into the rational world .... welcome back. Gravity seems like a pretty foregone conclusion here.
(Sorry to be off topic: the article this thread is really about was ... OK IMO ... not earthshattering or anything)
May 14, 2008 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not so off-topic. Ivins once summarized Paglia: "I Am the Cosmos."
May 15, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
"inflamed gender"? wuzzat?
May 14, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Camille Paglia proving that she's not nearly as clever as she thinks she is.
May 15, 2008 12:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Camille wants Hillary. She can't have her and it's clouding her thinking.
May 15, 2008 2:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Every once in a while, if you put a monkey at a keyboard, it will type out something that makes sense.
Sorry, I think that Camille's brilliance is mostly in her own head and that she takes many of her positions simply to be contrarian. Combine that with her hit-you-over-the-head-with-a-sledgehammer writing style, and she's about as dreary and predictable as they come.
Still, she has been mostly right about Hillary.
May 14, 2008 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Deserted Cities of the Heart is one of my favorites songs.
May 14, 2008 9:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
And having read the article again, I noticed that it has an ongoing title.
Camille states, in the title of her article, that she is going to speak of Hillary, of Iris Carrington (the late, great, Iris Carrington of Days of Our Lives), Stevie Wonder and how he's disappeared (but, if he's blind, does he know it?) and Cream.
Therefore, Camille has every right to not circle around and come back to Hillary at the end of the article.
Seeing as how Hillary's already met her end, I don't blame her.
May 14, 2008 10:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha! I loved her snarls regarding Faludi and ripping apart the "iron my shirt" myth.
May 15, 2008 12:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess I missed all discussion about the "Iron my shirt" episode being staged. I watched the video though and it does seem highly unlikely that this was anything but a stunt. Two other suspicious elements struck me in this regard: 1) Most protesters who are going to stage such an event, particularly filmed for broadcast, have something more to say than a chanted slogan; 2) Hillary doesn't seem too shocked in the video, and actually more amused - and not in the unflappable sense, rather the I-expected-this sense. Bizarre.
May 15, 2008 2:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, this is perfect - I've seen recommendations on this site for MoDo, Peggy Noonan - and now Camille Paglia, all in an attempt to grind that you-know-what Clinton into the dust. Too bad Phyllis Schlafly isn't getting around too much these days, I'm sure she'd have a bang up analysis to link to.
If I were the average Obama enthusiast I might want to just say ix-nay on recommending the azy-cra, and instead try to do some serious damage control for the countless times some Obama supporters have at the very least not condemned the rampant misogyny in much of the MSM's commentary about Hillary Clinton, if not outrightly fanning it. I would tell people like Noonan and Paglia to take their right-wing crap about Hillary and stick it where the sun don't shine. And I would be very concerned about the millions of women who proudly voted for Hillary, the first female candidate with a serious shot at winning, and how they feel now that their dream of a woman president is delayed a bit longer. I would make every attempt to welcome them with open arms into the Obama camp, and swearing off the Hillary bashing would be a super start.
But that's just me.
May 15, 2008 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Most of the horserace-crazed posters here act like they were born in about 2005, politically speaking. Paglia's been busy re-hashing every misogynist trope in the book for the past couple decades and wow now it suddenly sings. This is the kind of tactical brilliance we get when people focus everything on one campaign, expecting everything to revolve around it. You're not even helping that campaign in doing so.
May 15, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
When have the Hillaryites stopped bashing Obama, even when they've already lost it? I havent' seen that. And you know, if losing the primary is enough to make them lemming off a cliff by voting for McSame, then I think we're just going to clear the beach below the cliff for the lemmings to make sure no innocents get hurt.
May 15, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well said. I hate praising blowhards like Paglia (or the far less witty Dick Morris) just because they're on the same side as us in this race, but in this particular instance, Camile's pretty much nailed it.
I'll say this for Paglia, she may be kind of anti-intellectual in her criticism of academia but she herself is far less shallow than Maureen Dowd (faint praise I guess). Lord, seeing Dowd, Morris, and Paglia praising Obama makes me feel a twinge of sympathy for intelligent Republicans who find themselves on the same side as Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and Hannity. But at least our media schmucks aren't sociopaths!
May 15, 2008 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Camille Paglia absolutely sucks. I like Obama but this article was crap. She hasn't written anything worth reading since Sexual Personae and even that is overrated.
May 15, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
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