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Bill Moyers NAILS IT!!! Thank you, Bill!

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May 2, 2008 
BILL MOYERS:Welcome to the Journal.

Many of you have asked for some rational explanation for Wright's transition from reasonable conversation to shocking anger at the National Press Club. A psychologist might pull back some of the layers and see this complicated man more clearly, but I'm not a psychologist. Many black preachers I've known - scholarly, smart, and gentle in person -- uncorked fire and brimstone in the pulpit. Of course I've known many white preachers like that, too.

But in this multimedia age the pulpit isn't only available on Sunday mornings. There's round the clock media — the beast whose hunger is never satisfied, especially for the fast food with emotional content. So the preacher starts with rational discussion and after much prodding throws more and more gasoline on the fire that will eventually consume everything it touches. He had help — people who for their own reasons set out to conflate the man in the pulpit who wasn't running for president with the man in the pew who was.

Behold the double standard: John McCain sought out the endorsement of John Hagee, the war-mongering Catholic-bashing Texas preacher, who said the people of New Orleans got what they deserved for their sins. But no one suggests McCain shares Hagee's delusions, or thinks AIDS is God's punishment for homosexuality. Pat Robertson called for the assassination of a foreign head of state and asked God to remove Supreme Court justices, yet he remains a force in the Republican religious right. After 9/11 Jerry Falwell said the attack was God's judgment on America for having been driven out of our schools and the public square, but when McCain goes after the endorsement of a preacher he once condemned as an agent of intolerance, the press gives him a pass.

Which means it is all about race, isn't it?

Wright's offensive opinions and inflammatory appearances are judged differently. He doesn't fire a shot in anger, put a noose around anyone's neck, call for insurrection, or plant a bomb in a church with children in Sunday school. What he does is to speak his mind in a language and style that unsettles some people, and says some things so outlandish and ill-advised that he finally leaves Obama no choice but to end their friendship. Politics often exposes us to the corroding acid of the politics of personal destruction, but I've never seen anything like this — this wrenching break between pastor and parishioner. Both men no doubt will carry the grief to their graves. All the rest of us should hang our heads in shame for letting it come to this in America, where the gluttony of the non-stop media grinder consumes us all and prevents an honest conversation on race. It is the price we are paying for failing to heed the great historian Jacob Burckhardt, who said "beware the terrible simplifiers".



Comments (221)

Thanks for posting that. Moyers is my adopted grandpa.

Could I just make some small constructive criticism? There have been several posts recently about the needed for better reader generated blog posts (such as: http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/better-reader-posts.php).

In line with that, I would ask that if you want to post a news item with no commentary, try sending it to the TPM staff first at talk@talkingpointsmemo.com.

If it's newsworthy and something everyone should read, they might post it (maybe on the frontpage). If not , that gives you some time to add your own thoughts and analysis. I'd like to hear why you think this is important information.
What's the impact, etc. (or by all means write somethign snarky).

My two cents.
Thanks, Yoda

Yes, indeed. The Wright controversy is mostly (not all, because in any race like this, a lot of stuff is fair game) about race.

Some of it is about ratings, but media companies and producers can smell our darkest secrets better than we can. They don't care WHY we're gullible, they're just happy to take advantage of our gullibility. Lowest common denominator. It's nothing personal, just business. The only thing they hate, really, is losing money. So, they've been pushing this thing not because they're racists, but because they sense in us a receptive audience for rantings about the rantings of a black preacher, and sloppy conflation of his preaching with Obama because, you know, they're both... black. And Obama went to his church.

If it bleeds, it leads, baby.

But the real culprit is us, baby.

Deal.

Otherwise, as Moyers said, why isn't someone in the media making an equal stink about McCain and Haggee? Huh? Why not?

Because they're both white and no one believes McCain buys all of Haggee's crap?

And to think there were some dumb assess posting criticisms of Moyers here because he hadn't interviewed Monica Lewinsky and other Bill Clinton bimbos.

He should have! Why not?

Why did you edit the piece? You should at least have provided a link:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05022008/watch.html

The whole thing is worth reading.

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hre:

I got the piece from DailyKOS - and the person who posted it there apparently shortened it. I merely copied what was available there. (I edited out 4 'placeholders' - labeled 'snip' - but no content that was not posted at KOS.)


The whole manufactured "outrage" was purposely meant to upset some white folks, and it served the purpose.

See, Jeremiah Wright isn't "grateful" enough.


old news and such a shame it has to come back around.

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Some folks need anything to be upset about. They were not listening much to Obama anyway; now they can believe they have believed the right thing all along and alone with those as themselves.

It also gave the closet bigots an excuse, which they adopted as a wierd "Wright-Wright-Wright" mantra.

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Why do so many preachers who claim that they are
Christians, ignore the teaching of their Christ, and
instead rely on the fire and brimstone, plagues, and
eye for an eye claims from a bunch of ancient burlap clad, lice infested old testament ignoramuses?

I heard nothing that was authentically Christian in spirit from this Rev. Wright person. Nothing about turning the other cheek, forgiving others their trespasses, and
the meek inheriting the earth etc. What ever Rev Wright may have been like in the past, he is now a very mean spirited, ego-centric old man, who promotes the vengeance seeking, and damnation dealing God of the old testament, and gives the teachings of the Christ, that he claims to follow, very short shrift.

I am a very strong supporter of Senator Obama, and I do not believe, for a single second, that he is anything like Rev. Wright.

Senator Obama has rejected the divisive old testament ravings of Rev. Wright, so why are so many of you stiil trying to persuade others that Rev. Wright has been given a raw deal. He has not. He was given several chances on the national stage to present himself as a true follower of Jesus, and instead he spewed out a stream of mean spirited, violent revenge justifying old testament balderdash.

Senator Obama has separated himself from the mean spirited very Un-Christian man, and I say good riddance.

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I absolutely adore Bill Moyers. I just watched his address on the Wright story, and I loved everything he said. He is an amazing, big hearted, down to earth guy.
*sigh*
He just made my day.

I guess I'm still waiting for the part where someone explains why Obama reject Wright. I wouldn't have. You're going to have to make up your mind. Is Wright wrong, or is Obama just another politician, sucking up to lower income, uneducated whites? What do you think?


Someone asking for yet ANOTHER explanation??


Oh, Billy. I find it hard to believe you honestly think it's that cut and dry. Wright stepped over the line. He left Obama no choice. He had every right to defend himself but he could have done so differently. Much of what he says is true. Some of it is just plain batshit.

So Wright is partly wrong. The reaction to Wright is also partly wrong. The fact that people (in the media!) cannot understand that people can disagree with other without taking on their views is also wrong. It's a confluence of things. As is the case with most anything that involves humans, it's just complicated.

I see the piece as a defense of Wright, but not of Obama. Saying Wright left Obama no choice has to be understood now in the context Wright gave it. No choice as a politician. The same people who are siding with Wright tonight were trashing him as soon as Obama did after defending him when Obama did. They don't seem to be thinking for themselves. Twists and turns. Obama should have warned them before he dumped Wright. As it is, they don't seem to know what to think or say. So I'm asking. When was Obama right? Then or now? What did Wright say that he hadn't said before, except that Obama is a politician. That was Wright's real sin wasn't it? He committed the unforgivable sin of calling Obama a politician who says what he has to say to get elected.

Let me just say first that I can speak for no one other than myself.

I've been consumed by this election. Driving in the car, working in the garden, my mind ends up right back on it. Wrapping my head around everything Wright-related isn't simple, at least not for me. It involves reflecting on religion and race and human relationships and loyalty and anger and history and culture and generations. So I can't boil down my thoughts on Wright for you. to anything definite, but I'll try. To be honest, they aren't clearly defined even in my own head.

I haven't trashed Wright. I was pissed off at what he did at the press conference. And yes, in my opinion, what he shouldn't have done was imply that Obama was a liar. It was an unjust attack on his integrity, in my opinion, and it was unnecessary in the context of self-defense. And he came across sounding petty. That doesn't mean I won't defend him from wrongs done to him.

I see downthread you wrote:

What was Wright supposed to think after Obama said nothing for 20 years, then denounced him when he had to to keep his campaign alive? I know you won't accept the fact that Obama did that. But how else do you explain his silence before he started running for President. Silence betokens consent. Wright had every right to believe the silent Obama agreed with what he was preaching. Then, suddenly, Obama knew nothing.

Not so. If you'll recall, in an NY Times article from April of last year, Wright was quoted as saying, "“If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me,” Mr. Wright said with a shrug. “I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen.”

Obama was also quoted as saying, "“we don’t agree on everything."

Wright knew. He is no fool. April of last year! This was going to come out all along. And to answer a question that has been asked multiple times in reference to this article, "If you knew so long ago, why did it take you so long to distance yourself?"

The answer to that is very simple. He also had no choice. Running as a black man, if he had started out his campaign by talking about race, the black church, his pastor, and all that we are now embroiled in, his candidacy would have sank faster than a concrete ship filled with bricks. He would have immediately painted himself into "the black candidate" corner and would have never made it past Iowa.

I don't know if you read MJ Rosenberg at the Cafe or not. I generally think his stuff boils down to some wierd kind of rant. He's one of those writers that I have to bite my lip to keep from responding to every time I see his name.

Rosenberg hates Charles Krauthammer. And one of Rosenberg's favorite rants is about how he witnessed Krauthammer shout his Rabbi down for making remarks in a sermon that Krauthammer thought were soft on Palestine. The way Rosenberg describes the scene, this old man in a wheel chair shouted his Rabbi down in synagogue and made him apologize for his remarks.

Why didn't Obama shout Wright down? Did Obama agree with Wright's sermons, with his views on white America and the dominant white culture? Did he think of Wright as entertainment? Was he seeking solace? Wright and Obama know the truth of it.

My inner Grackle is coming out. I'm starting to think that the reason Obama never heard those comments, was never in the congregation at the time, is that he *IS* Rev. Wright, Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde style. And with the increased attention, harder and harder to maintain the split - he realized that with the "bitter" comment. Read the book, the detectives were getting too close, they had to denounce each other. Will the serum wear off?

So you respect Krautheimer's response more than Obama's?

Of course. Don't you? Krauthammer has the courage of his convictions. He rebuked his Rabbi. If Obama had rebuked Wright before Wright became a political liability, I'd say the same about Obama.

"Krauthammer has the courage of his convictions."

now I get it... I have been wondering.

This comment just cleared up some questions I have had since I started reading here at Cafe.

At least now I know the real score.

Why do so many people here use someone else's photo as their avatar?

But, this IS my photo! Of course, I was much younger then.

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Why do so many preachers who claim that they are
Christians, ignore the teaching of their Christ, and
instead rely on the fire and brimstone, plagues, and
eye for an eye claims from a bunch of ancient burlap clad, lice infested old testament ignoramuses?

I heard nothing that was authentically Christian in spirit from this Rev. Wright person. Nothing about turning the other cheek, forgiving others their trespasses, and
the meek inheriting the earth etc. What ever Rev Wright may have been like in the past, he is now a very mean spirited, ego-centric old man, who promotes the vengeance seeking, and damnation dealing God of the old testament, and gives the teachings of the Christ, that he claims to follow, very short shrift.

I am a very strong supporter of Senator Obama, and I do not believe, for a single second, that he is anything like Rev. Wright.

Senator Obama has rejected the divisive old testament ravings of Rev. Wright, so why are so many of you stiil trying to persuade others that Rev. Wright has been given a raw deal. He has not. He was given several chances on the national stage to present himself as a true follower of Jesus, and instead he spewed out a stream of mean spirited, violent revenge justifying old testament balderdash.

Senator Obama has separated himself from the mean spirited very Un-Christian man, and I say good riddance.

Didn't Wright explain that in his answers to the insipid questions tendered during the Press Club Q&A?

He said that he had received email messages from many white friends, including many Jewish white friends, acknowledging that no one could be elected in the USA expressing the things which Wright expressed.

Despite the fact that the chickens did come home to roost on 9-11, such is not supposed to be expressed.

Remember when Ron Paul said so during one of the republican debates? The guy was flayed by all those who knew what he said is true but who observe the convention of perpetuating the myth that the USA is a force for peace and freedom in the world, not the force for perpetuating brutal dictatorships and deposing democratically elected governments, all in the interest of protecting markets for USA businesses.

One may not tell the whole truth and expect to be elected in the USA, whether as president, county commissioner, or dog catcher.

It's too bad, but that's the way it is.

It seems to me that Obama has compromised far less than have the other candidates and I'm looking forward to eight years of an Obama administration.

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Please BillyGlad... while you're waiting, hold your breath.

Really.... hold it...

Billy,

Here.

It'll do you good to get out of your echo chamber more:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05022008/watch.html

Why don't you start supporting the Democratic candidate for President and think about why McCain and the Republicans are complete racist hypocrites on this issue?

Obama stood up for him when this thing first blew up. He could not throw his pastor under the bus. Unfortunately the unthinkable happened, the pastor threw him under instead.

I am sure the backlash of all of this pained Rev. Wright greatly. It is because of Obama's choice to run for the White House that Rev. Wright faced horrible unwarrented criticism that negated 30 years of great work into 30 sec sound bytes. I am sure he was hurt, not by Obama per se, but the media that was determined to demonize him.

Obama would never believe in a million years that Wright would cast him as "just another politician". Maybe Wright is feeling that way because he thought Obama should have defended him more strongly. I suppose we will never know.

But I saw the pain and the anguish when Obama said, "I guess I didn't know him as well as I thought I did".

It was heartbreaking to see the MSM with their torches and pitchforks skewer this man and destroy such a relationship to the point where Obama had to let him go. Obama runs his campaign on truth, ethics and personal integrity. He could not hold a relationship with the man who called him "just another politician".

The pain that he and Michelle feel goes deep. There is no one who watches them talking about this that could doubt it.

You're putting things in quotes and leaving out complete context that aren't attributed to people's actual statements.

Let's do things verbatim.

I'm a little late here, but you know, Obama already explained it the other day in his press conference. He was asked those kind of questions, and he talked at length about why it was different this time. Just watch the video... it's all there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4EKY7rCF_c

Key quotes that I think address your question:

"If reverend Wright thinks that, that's political posturing - as he put it - then he doesn't know me very well. Based on his remarks yesterday, well, I may not know him as well as I thought, either."

The Q&A was very illuminating:

Q: Why the change in tone from yesterday when you spoke to us on the tarmac yesterday --

Barack Obama: I'll be honest with you, because I hadn't seen it yet.

Q: That was the difference?

Obama: Yes.

Q: Have you heard the reports about the AIDS comment?

Obama: I had not. I had not seen the transcript. What I had heard was that he had given a performance and I thought, at the time, that it would be sufficient to reiterate what I had said in Philadelphia. Upon watching it, what became clear to me was that it was more than just a -- it was more than just him defending himself. What became clear to me was that he was presenting a worldview that -- that's -- that contradicts who I am and what I stand for, and what I think particularly angered me was his suggestion, somehow, that my previous denunciation of his remarks were somehow political posturing. Anybody who knows me and anybody who knows what I'm about knows that I'm about trying to bridge gaps and that I see the commonality in all people. And so when I start hearing comments about conspiracy theories and AIDS and suggestions that somehow Minister Farrakahn is -- has been a great voice in the 20th century, then that goes directly at who I am and what I believe this country needs.

Q: What's going to happen with the distraction?

Obama: I want to use this press conference to make people absolutely clear that obviously whatever relationship I had with Reverend Wright has changed, as a consequence of this. I don't think that he showed much concern for me. I don't -- more importantly -- I don't think he showed much concern for what we're trying to do in this campaign and what we're trying to do for the American people and with the American people. And obviously, he's free to speak out on issues that are of concern to him and he can do it in any ways that he wants. But I feel very strongly that -- well, I want to make absolutely clear that I do not subscribe to the views that he expressed. I believe they are wrong. I think they are destructive. And to the extent that he continues to speak out, I do not expect those views to be attributed to me.

Full text of the speech plus Q&A:
http://www.salon.com/news/primary_sources/2008/04/29/obama_remarks/

"And so when I start hearing comments about conspiracy theories and AIDS and suggestions that somehow Minister Farrakahn is -- has been a great voice in the 20th century, then that goes directly at who I am and what I believe this country needs.

And you really believe that was the first time Obama knew Wright was saying those things?

Here is an email I sent Josh on January 15th of this year.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/l/louis_farrakhan.html

Mr. Obama is going to have to denounce Farrakhan and, probably, leave Wright's church.

One question, why hasn't Hillary dumped Rendell yet? Rendell appeared with Farakkan and gave a glowing speech about him. Any guesses why she has not rejected and denounced Rendell?

In April 1997, Ed Rendell -- then the mayor of Philadelphia and currently the governor of Pennsylvania and a major Clinton surrogate -- delivered a passion-filled speech lauding the work of Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam. "I would like to thank the Nation of Islam here in Philadelphia," Rendell said to the crowd, as Farrakhan looked on approvingly. "To thank you for what you stand for and what you stand for all the good it does to so many people in Philadelphia. And if there is anybody out here... who doesn't know, this is a faith that has as its principles, the family. This is a faith that doesn't just talk about family values, it lives family values. This is a faith where men respect their women and children and they manifest that faith by staying in the home with them. This is a faith that doesn't just talk about being against drugs but is out there every single day and night fighting against drugs. This is a faith that just doesn't talk about the value of education, it imbues in their children and schools that education is the way to opportunity."

Those words strike a similar tone to the compliments that Wright himself bestowed upon Farrakhan in a Trumpet Magazine article in November and December of 2007.

Here's the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXum_-8I1TA

She should rebuke him for praising Farrakan. Without a statement from Farrakan renouncing his words about Malcolm, Jews, Hitler and America, no amount of good works justifies praising him without rebuking him for his hateful speech at the same time. Rendell, like Obama and Clinton, is just a politician. I can't get her to listen to me on this one.

If I'm not mistaken, the whole "reject and denounce" phrase was born when he rejected and denounced Farrakhan in the debate.

When Hillary forced him to and he tried to turn it into a joke.

Billy, it's not Wright's church any more. It's Otis' church.

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"All the rest of us should hang our heads in shame for letting it come to this in America, where the gluttony of the non-stop media grinder consumes us all and prevents an honest conversation on race."

Shameful indeed.

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That was wonderful. I'd like to mail a copy of it to Roger Simon. That clown, who really ought to know better, has a piece at politico entitled "Obama Can't Bluff Past Wright Issue." It's enough to make a thinking person want to scream.

Why don't we have more people in the media like Bill Moyers?

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Quote: "Is Wright wrong, or is Obama just another politician, sucking up to lower income, uneducated whites? What do you think?"

None of us knows what's inside anyone else's heart. But Rev. Wright also lashed out at Obama in comments that were quite personally pointed and disparaging -- suggesting that Obama didn't believe what he was saying or was speaking as a politician and saying what a politician must, etc. etc. That was so personally hurtful and so intended to hurt (consciously or otherwise) that Obama had little choice but to speak up and defend himself against comments that went to the very core of who he is. The sad thing is that it had to play out in such a public way. But Rev. Wright -- ably abetted by the Clinton campaign, the McCain campaign, the rightwing echo chamber and the insatiable media -- made sure it couldn't play out in any other way.

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What Wright said was ridiculous. That's bad enough. The bigger problem was Wright saying, in essence, "don't be fooled. Obama believes the same thing. He's just telling you white folks he doesn't so you'll vote for him."

A comment like that should get him disowned. I'm willing to bet that 90% of Trinity's congregation do no believe that the government invented AIDS to harm people of color or that 9/11 is the chickens coming home to roost. So, for him to say Obama does is not only arrogant and presumptive, it's a way to help sink Obama's campaign. Wright is a self-centered ass.

More things in quotes that are YOUR statements and opinions. Don't use either man as a symbol for your thoughts.

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STFU. I post the way I want and you do the same.

That was Wright's great sin, wasn't it. Saying that Obama was speaking as a politician. What was Wright supposed to think after Obama said nothing for 20 years, then denounced him when he had to to keep his campaign alive? I know you won't accept the fact that Obama did that. But how else do you explain his silence before he started running for President. Silence betokens consent. Wright had every right to believe the silent Obama agreed with what he was preaching. Then, suddenly, Obama knew nothing, Wright was an old uncle -- he called him an uncle! -- compared him to his old white Grandma. And Obamaworld hailed the speech as the greatest speech on race in the history of America.

Let me ask you this. Are you going to be surprised when Wright starts saying Obama did hear him say those things Obama denies hearing?

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This is such BS. Do you really believe that everybody in Trinity believes everything Wright says? There are doctors, professors, lawyers, etc who attend that church. According to you, they either have to leave or tell Wright to his face that they don't believe the government created AIDS (if they've heard him say that).

I have family members who think I'm a Christian, simply because they are and I was raised one. (I'm still a believer but it's very unorthodox.) I've never bothered to tell them anything different. Sometimes when you don't agree, there's no need to mix it up about it.

By Wright saying "Obama is a politician" he was saying "Obama is a liar." I wouldn't tolerate anybody saying that about me. Wright was trying to sabotage Obama because he got his feelings hurt.

I honestly don't think Wright is a racist. I think he is a radical. And when blacks are radicals, whites get scared and see it as racism.

They go to Trinity for what? Entertainment? If you think they don't agree with the content of those sermons, you must think they're hypocrites to sit there and listen to them.

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"It is the mark of an educated man to entertain a thought without accepting it."
- Aristotle

Moyers tossed him soft balls but the National Press Club did not.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080503/ap_on_el_pr/obama_working_class_whites;_ylt=AtZBiyX_PwDkqBek_XcwYjsDW7oF

Stephanopoulos is sure to throw more softballs at Hillary Clinton tomorrow like he did during the ABC "debate." He'll probably find a way to attack Obama or help his former boss's wife who he is still loyal to and throw in some Wright questions to boot.

Perhaps someone in the audience will ask him and Hillary if they still think people from Indiana are "sh*t?"

The only softball that Moyers threw hit you in the head.

Hi. Did you watch the show? Care to share some of those "softballs" with us?

Ooooh, here comes one of the simplifiers now!

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Bill, is again being delusional. Asking for support vs. sitting in the pew for 20 years....calling the man your Mentor.....Writing a booked based on one of the Man's speaches is not the same thing. But, we can go on flogging this thing and calling everyone that disagrees with Mr. Wright a racist. We've been hearing it now for 2 months and it doesn't seem to be getting old.

Wright's not running for president.

Bill Moyers has always been the hero of reason and integrity and professional journalism. It's so clear that the MSM has traded their integrity and sacred trust to tell the truth for rating points and narcissistic bloviating. I also loved Bill Moyers' thesis on flag pins when he declared "I love my mother too but I don't feel obliged to wear a lapel pin with her picture on it to prove the point". I wish Barack would use it.

That Bill Moyers is an icon of intelligent journalism is no surprise but where are all the rest of the lions of journalism and decent Americans who are sitting on the sidelines and who by their silence are giving voice to bigots and cynics through this tragic public lynching.....??????

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So, why did moyers spend even MORE time on him?

Come on, Louisville.

You get it.

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Not at all. Has nothing to do but race. Obama is trying to make it into race. But, it is not about race.

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with

Obama?

We're talking about what Bill Moyers said.

What's with the Bill Moyer's worship around this place? Send your check to PBS and get over him.

Your freudian slip just showed.

It is clearly about race. The spew emanating from the evangelical right for the past several years that passes for believable ideology among the politicians and the media is vile. But O the comdemnation when a black man speaks his mind.
Hypocrites

Thank you for this post. I keep lovin' Bill Moyers more every time I see his considered approach. What I found almost shameful was the Obama & Wright expose on MSNBC this weekend. It was a thinly veiled attempt to answer criticism that they are too favorable toward Obama, by making sure that they regurgitated the entire escapade in totallity, just before the primaries. Low blow, and proving Moyers point if you ask me.

Obama rejected Wright because Wright questioned his integrity in front of the entire country. Why would you do that to a friend? Obama went to bat for him - I don't think he got that in return. He intimated that he was just a politician doing what politicians do. It's all sad. Thanks Bill Moyers. Speak truth to power...

But speaking truth to power is what Wright is trying to do, and you're killing him for it. Look. If Obama is just a politician doing what politicians do, what difference does it make. You'll still support him, won't you?

The problem is that Wright encapsulates the "bitterness" part of both Obamas. His comment about the little inner-city girl who has no chance to become a nuclear engineer (old-school choice of professions) floored me, especially with Michelle in his congregation as an example of where Magnet Schools and grants and hard work can get you. MLK talked about Blacks in America thinking about what economic clout they have, and currently they would rank about 13th in the world by GDP, with an average household income over $45K. That is huge, even if it can be improved. There is opportunity, along with problems to be solved. The playing field is very different from 1968, even if it's still fairly tilted. DF loves laughing at my Linux comment, but you can get a $400 PC and a $10 access to the internet and have tons of access to information in whatever subject along with various job opportunities that make race irrelevant. Where is the talk about this brave new world? Do we have any Wright sermons on Black computer camps and where the jobs are? Is Wright as hard on black men for still leaving 63% of black households headed by a single parent (mostly a woman)? The line I took from Legacy: Being Black in America was the shift from Civil Rights to Civil Responsibility. Wright doesn't have it in him to completely round that bend. He's still too much stuck in the revolution that mostly finished.

But I also don't understand why Obama has so much trouble articulating this - instead resorting to the "crazy old uncle" and his "racist" grandmother. I'm just not convinced he gets it himself, however much lip service he puts on it.

Wright's comment in a German interview that "some white people don't have time to lynch black people" also didn't reflect a lot of self-restraint, and can't blame this one on his pulpit style. Not that many of the well-known white religious/political preaches don't have 5 times the number of controversial statements, but then I don't tend to support their followers either.

C'mon, don't throw that shit out there without a link. I can't even make sense out of that line.

Wright Spiegel interview

Thanks.

I don't think Obama has trouble articulating this at all:

...we've heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike.

...the remarks...expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America....

As such, Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems - two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.

Some would say that's articulate but a little late. Nobody denies that Obama delivers a good speech. Some people believe he should have delivered that one at Trinity United a long time ago. Questions about why he didn't are not going to go away.

Yes, agreeing with Billy, I hadn't seen Obama's recent comments but basically looked for this back in his "great speech on race".

DF get a $400 PC and a $10 access to the internet and have tons of access to information in whatever subject along with various job opportunities that make race irrelevant. Where is the talk about this brave new world? Do we have any Wright sermons on Black computer camps and where the jobs are?

This is a prime example of taking the narrow view that Wright and his church were all about those provocative sermons. I don't know if Wright has sermonized about the "brave new world," but TUCC's ministries includes:

TRINITY COMPUTER LEARNING CENTER
Trinity Computer Learning Center (TCLC) is a faith-based training facility for Trinity United Church of Christ and the community at large using computer technology to help cross the digital divide.

INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY MINISTRY - Information Technology Ministry (IT Ministry) provides Information and Technology related services to the church community.

CAREER DEVELOPMENT - provides information, training and job fairs to enable unemployed and underemployed members to compete and upgrade their employability for jobs with employers seeking "good" employees.

MATH TUTORIAL - involves elementary age youth in the rigorous discipline needed to increase their understanding of mathematical concepts.

READING TUTORIAL - provides educational experiences through tutoring in reading for elementary school students.

ADOPT-A-STUDENT MINISTRY - is focused on trying to retain college students who have gone away from home and are studying at universities and colleges out of the city and state. Importantly, this ministry assures our college students that they: 1) belong to God, and 2) have a church home that cares about them.

http://www.tucc.org/ministries.htm

It's one thing to have these programs, it's another to emphasize them come Sunday morning. Maybe he did. I went through a number of their videos one day looking for something refreshing and didn't find it. Only a segment on AIDS testing. And in his Spiegel interview he talks about inner city kids not have opportunity in this society despite the contrary examples in his congregation and society at large.

63% of Black households are single parent. That's a great strain on Black society, on top of the horrid incarceration rate and drug use rate. I don't know TUCC inside and out, but the impression I got was that they were as focused on politics as God, and didn't get the self-responsibility part. Perhaps they could consider improving their PR at least, if it's not a problem with their direction.

Oh, how funny. That's exactly what Obama claims he heard. Obama may be beyond redemption with me on this one. Asked directly for an example of what he did hear Wright say in church, all Obama could point to was Wright castigating black men for not taking care of their families. Then, of course, Obama goes on to make sure we know he's not like that.

Given that Obama said that, I would have expected your research to turn up many examples of the Reverend Wright exhorting his church to take care of their families and really laying into those members who don't.

I thought he would be calling them down by name even, and, in the rich tradition of prophetic preaching, damning them to hell. Damn you men who leave your families to provide for themselves! Or words to that effect. There have to be some of those out there.

That is ironic, but don't confuse my quick perusal with "research", though I guess I went through most of the available YouTube/TUCC videos.

Did you see the opening segment of the Moyers interview with film of the church at work? It included a young man saying he wanted to be a lawyer (God help him), and Wright said there were lawyers in the congregation and he would get the young man hooked up with one of them so he could learn more about the profession.

Wright then told the interviewer about how those inner city youth don't see these professionals in their daily lives the way more privileged children do, and that you can't be what you can't see.

And have you read the Black Value System? It's very much about responsibility. It includes:

Commitment to the Black Community. The highest level of achievement for any Black person must be a contribution of strength and continuity of the Black Community.

Commitment to the Black Family. The Black family circle must generate strength, stability and love, despite the uncertainty of externals...

Those Blacks who are blessed with membership in a strong family unit must reach out and expand that blessing to the less fortunate.

Dedication to the Pursuit of Education. We must forswear anti-intellectualism....it develops within us the ability to fashion concepts and tools for better utilization of our resources, and more effective solutions to our problems.

Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence. To the extent that we individually reach for, even strain for excellence, we increase, geometrically, the value and resourcefulness of the Black Community. We must recognize the relativity of one’s best; this year’s best can be bettered next year. Such is the language of growth and development. We must seek to excel in every endeavor.

Adherence to the Black Work Ethic....High productivity must be a goal of the Black workforce.

Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect.

Pledge to Make the Fruits of All Developing and Acquired Skills Available to the Black Community.

Right, Bear who dances. We're just looking for that fiery sermon Barack says he heard. The one where Wright gives those black men hell for abandoning their families. Can you help us find it?

What bul