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Attention Obama bloggers who didn't read the memo:
Mr. Obama does not want to appear as if he is pushing Mrs. Clinton out of the race, preferring instead to treat her gracefully as a worthy Democratic fighter, not as a stubborn nemesis.
He issued a directive to his campaign not to overtly declare victory at a rally on Tuesday in Iowa, a sentiment he telegraphed in Montana on Monday where he appealed for support in the state’s June 3 primary.
“We still have a number of contests, including Montana, before we’re able to secure the nomination,” Mr. Obama said, speaking to an audience in Billings. “Senator Clinton has run a magnificent race, and she is still working hard, as am I, for all of these last primary contests.”
From Obama Is Expected to Hit a Milestone in Today’s Votes, New York Times, May 20.



Comments (119)
Democrats Unite!
May 20, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Democrats Unite!
May 20, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, she has every right to stay in the race, blah blah blah. She's also insisting that the party now become hyper-sensitive to her need to stay or she'll take her supporters and go home. No victory lap for Obama--it would be impolite!
May 20, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
cnic,
It's not about Clinton's right to stay in the race... It's about handling her (extremely likely) exit from the race in the best way possible for Phase Two. Gracious winning and gracious losing are very important part of that.
May 20, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think she's being very pissy about all this and contrary to her supposed feminism. She's telling her supporters that if you stomp your feet, demand and act all pissy, that you'll get your way, no matter what is at stake. Too many women have fought too hard for too long to get that kind of take-home message. She seems to become more demanding the closer it gets to the day when she can no longer demand. This acting out is so beneath her, I just wish she would stop it. I've lost virtually all respect I had for her, and she's certainly lost the respect of a whole lot of people, including party leaders. She's done a lot of damage to the party and to her own reputation. There's still time to save both. Unfortunately, that's up to her, she who does not seem so inclined.
May 20, 2008 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shorter - "if she'd STFU and make me a sandwich, we'd respect her"
She's not stomping her feet, you rodent-eating bug-eyed scavenger, she's simply wielding the power that she has, the power of her supporters.
"Honey, I almost got the President's job, but they told me I might apply for the secretarial pool if I like - doesn't that sound great?" Is that the takehome message for women that you expect?
What is your problem with a woman demanding something? Leaders demand things all the time. It's not the only tool in their toolkit, but it's an important one. 60% of the Democratic voters are women. Hillary won the bulk of them. What's the payoff for all that work? "Back to the kitchen, sweetie, talk to you later, girlfriend"? Fat chance. There are going to be some gains from this campaign or Obama is going to sit and spin.
It would be exactly the same if Obama came close second and Hillary just blew off the interests of his constituents.
May 21, 2008 3:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
The problem is not that she is demanding something. Its what she is demanding...That we change the rules so she can win.
Its also the way she makes these arguments with a straight face, like " I won the most votes" Right. Only if she gets all she got from Michigan and he gets zero from there. She's like "its not my fault he took his name off the ballot." These arguments just make her look so dishonest, and reinforce the belief she'd do anything to win, including lie and cheat.
If you want to win as a fighter, you have to play by the rules. When you get to the end, if the other guy has more points, you stop
May 21, 2008 4:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
We've been over this before. New Hampshire jumped ahead of Nevada to be #2 - where was the penalty for that? How did the Democratic voters of Michigan and Florida declare their support for Republican legislatures moving the primaries? Why is the Democratic party allowing us to focus first on states #30, #41, #35 and #24 in population? #8 Michigan has almost as many people as all those together, #4 Florida 50% more.
Obama knew he would have his ass handed to him in Florida - there was no moral imperative to his decision, it was simply survival. Same with Michigan. He simply didn't have the machine at that point to compete in large primary states - witness his all-out efforts in California and Massachusetts where he still lost big. But telling the 18 million people of Florida to go fuck themselves, they have only themselves to blame, to go whine to their party leaders, isn't really going to inspire the base, is it?
May 21, 2008 7:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
We HAVE been all over this before. So let's pretend that facts have a place in your universe:
NH, SC, IA and NV received waivers to have their primaries before February 5, to show regional representation and not to so front-load the primary system as to have nominations decided two years before the GE (that, by the way, was snark. I want to make sure you understand the difference between facts and sarcasm).
MI and FL broke those rules. McAuliffe held MI to the fire over this exact same rule-breaking phenomena in 2000. Now he wants the rules changed for his candidate.
So let's be clear: Hillary broke the rules, continues to break the rules, change every goalpost in her way to her coronation. Obama has abided the rules and should step aside? I hardly think so.
She can wield the power of her intense support. You seem to forget -- the winner has intense support as well. Obama has been gracious, almost to a fault. But that's Obama. Your candidate, whose campaign was as inept as a new Chicago alderman's campaign would have been, did not abide by the rules and has spent most of her energy trying to circumvent them.
Not what I want in a president.
May 21, 2008 7:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
I love your comments. They tend to cut through multiple layers of bullshit all at once. :O)
May 21, 2008 7:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, well take a look at this post on the matter and see if you're familiar with even half the details, or "bullshit" as you call it.
May 21, 2008 8:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow - that's convincing - you linked to a post by ... YOU!
(If Clinton were ahead in elected delegates, she wouldn't give a rat's ass about MI and FL.)
May 21, 2008 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
So the rules don't matter?
May 21, 2008 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, I'd forgotten about the Shut up and make me a sandwich site.
May 21, 2008 8:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Returning to ones job as the junior senator from NY is hardly being sent to the kitchen. A request that she behave as if she had minimal hometraining and a smidgen of sportmanship is not sexist.
May 21, 2008 10:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
She hasn't done any damage and she is doing exactly what she should be doing - campaigning until the primaries are over.
May 21, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, we must all be vewy sensitive to all those widdle feewings.
[I love your gravatar - that is my favorite movie, quite possibly, ever.]
May 20, 2008 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I meant that for cnic.
May 20, 2008 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
You replied to cnic. But now I'm curious -- what's the gravatar source? (I'm pop-culture clueless. But I like to learn.)
May 21, 2008 12:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is from "Spirited Away"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0245429/
May 21, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Have you seen "My Neighbor Totoro"? It is by the same studio and my personal favorite. It has one moral for children and another for the parents (and a catbus).
May 21, 2008 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
the totoro page on IMDB
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096283/
May 21, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
She didn't say a goddamned thing like that. Quit projecting.
May 21, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are correct. She did not say it. She acted it out.
May 21, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Artapraiser -- normally I ignore posts that are primarily links to other content, but in this case, I think you point is very well-made and that this group of people really needs to hear it.
May 20, 2008 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seconded.
May 20, 2008 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
You guys are my homeys, so I almost don't know where to hang this comment. But this is my contrarian view, as the comment pertains to interaction at TPM (which has precious little relation to the real world):
I wrote a post called Just Say No, or Time To Ride the Unity Pony, and that artful bloke/blokette, readytoblowagasket, stomped into the thread to type "fuck the unity pony." Readytoblow complained that it "only" got 28 recommends, which made it third most recommended or second, I forget. The only diminishment of the overture was rtbag's, not the rec total.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/just-say-no-or-time-to-ride-th.php
So I like talking to the persuadable ones in life (and in here), but not the ponyfuckers, of whom there are too many in their camp at TPM. Hope the ones on this board grow up soon, they've run off half the interesting people in here for now with their rude, narcissistic, ponyfucking ways.
May 20, 2008 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess it just does my heart good to see the occasional "there's more to this than your petty squabbles" post. And I'm happy to support each and every one of those posts until people actually calm down.
I expect the same level of graciousness from our Clinton-supporting friends, though I'm willing to give them a bit of a pass until June 5th (or so). It is a bit harder to be a gracious loser than a gracious winner. (Also, I'm probably more frustrated by Obama-favoring stupidity because, in some round-about way, I think it reflects poorly on the campaign as a whole, and I'm emotionally invested in that.)
My philosophy is to ignore mean-spirited comments (why waste my energy?) and reward the introspective and insightful ones. I guess I'm saying the same thing you are, only I do at an individual comment level, rather than a poster level.
May 20, 2008 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Blow's comment came after a whole lot of people's snark showing they weren't ready to ride the unity pony - I wouldn't blame him/her. Your post was a bit early in the curve for both sides.
Actually it's a good message about war and peace - an effective peace often only happens when one side is thoroughly defeated, and it's often useless to try to arrange a peace until that epiphany has been reached. And we all know Obama still hasn't closed the deal, so we slink and slither on, hoping something decisive this way comes.
Of course 33 recommends for a non-Obama praising post is pretty huge, I think Blow just unrealistically expected it to be a post the Obama team would jump to support. I made the same mistake with my MLK post.
May 21, 2008 3:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, Obama should be gracious. And, given the strong messages from Clinton's campaign, he'd better not make too much of this victory. However, I really wish that Clinton wasn't playing her end game like this.
May 20, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Her end game being that... on paper she has more qualifications than Obama, has won almost all of the big states, didn't rely upon Independents, Republicans, college kids and wacky caucus states for her victory, and got an unfair drubbing from a woman-hating media that does not admit of the INCREDIBLE level of support that she has?
yeah, that's a helluva end game. Call it ending up a winner against McCain.
May 21, 2008 3:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Really? Do you realize that without
no Democrat can win in the fall?
Do you realize that Hillary is 31 million in debt while Obama has 37 million in the bank? Why is that? Because more people believe in him than in her, and because he has run a better campaign. Her "on paper" qualifications" are dwarfed by her repeated examples of bad judgement and failures in accomplishing things. She set universal health care back a decade just by her bullying ways of trying to accomplish it (and when that didn't work, she abandoned it completely even though she had another 7 years to make it work)!
"Wacky caucus states?" That says it all. They wouldn't be wacky if they had gone for Hill, would they?
May 21, 2008 9:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ever heard of African Americans? How about educated White Americans? Heard of them?
May 21, 2008 10:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Um, yeah. Most of them will vote for Obama. What is your point?
May 21, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
er,
May 20, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
yeah,
Hillary = ambition and ego
Obama = descending from the hand of god, selfless
May 21, 2008 3:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can only look forward to the next few months when, BY NO FAULT OF HIS OWN, Sen Obama will be known as an actual human being, and not the Messiah. This will disappoint a lot of supporters, I only hope they can adhere to the dream instead of only the dreamer.
I remember Robert F Kennedy too achingly well to want Obama to strut his victory upon the world stage with out humility. There are so many variables that happen with no warning.
May 21, 2008 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I've seen your sly little references to assassination in other threads, morrigan. They're beyond creepy.
As for ugly, hate-inspired comments, that's about as ugly as it gets.
Feh.
May 21, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
artappraiser,
What can I say? One doesn't have to look too hard to find ungracious comments about any of the candidates, I'm afraid. My personal strategy for managing my emotions during this process is to try to focus my attention on what the candidates themselves say, rather than their supporters (especially those found on political blogs!). It helps me to remind myself that there's a distinction between the candidates and their supporters.
Lately at TPM there have been a few pleas for unity but they're ususally paired with an intransigence when it comes to letting go of one's own invested resentment. I guess that's human nature.
I suppose we won't really see reconciliation until the contests are actually over and both candidates officially come together to re-focus the party's energy toward beating the Republicans in the general election.
It'll happen...we'll have to try to be patient.
May 20, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey--There ought to be a middle ground between saintly resignation and ridiculous ad hominem attacks!
Obama should be gracious and would have been gracious. However, the new Clintonite line is that any celebrating is an insult to her: Howard Wolfson reprimanded Obama in a memo, calling his Iowa rally "a slap in the face" and warning against "premature victory laps." That's why Obama is making this unusual plea.
May 20, 2008 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you - I feel exactly the way you do about this, cnic.
It's getting damned silly.
May 20, 2008 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
They're (HRC and her camp followers) just trying to extort the selection of a woman for Obama's VP.
May 21, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
One (wo)man's extortion is another (wo)man's fair price.
It's what the market will bear.
Try to grin and bear it.
May 21, 2008 3:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course the market will bear it. But nobody gets a fair price when they have to pay an angry, resentful, and disappointed HRC playing to break even after losing big.
May 21, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey - give credit where credit is due: Yoda.
Obama is just following my lead:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/hillarys-concession-speech-pla.php
May 20, 2008 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're quite the sage, YU. Although I'm not a hater, the exhale feels good.
May 20, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since I'm not part of the Obama campaign, I feel completely unrestrained in telling it like it is.
Clinton needs to bow out after today. Or if she stays in, she needs to keep her trap shut or simply praise Obama at any opportunity. The campaign is over - we have our nominee. All this talk about being worried about Obama's "victory lap" is just projection - why is Clinton even staying in the race at this point, if not to do a "defeat lap" where she and her surrogates continue to parade themselves around the talkshow circuit and pretend to be way more relevant than they actually are?
May 20, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Patience is hard but needed. We can't blow it now.
May 20, 2008 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes we can!
Oh wait...
May 20, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
"We can't blow it now."
"We" won't. If enough Hillary supporters vote other than for Obama, or fail to get out and vote in fall out of hurt feelings, then they are the ones to blame.
These people REALLY need to grow up. I am so sick of this implicit threat to throw the election to McCain. As was said earlier in the primary, "Politics is a contact sport. If you don't like it, then don't put your uniform on."
And, for all the feces that have been flung at me personally and Obama supporters generally on this and various other blogs, I've never threatened to withhold my vote and sabotage Hillary's candidacy were she to get the nomination.
Maybe you didn't get the memo, art: it's policy, country and party before a sepcific candidate. For all her alleged toughness, Hillary and her supporters sure are a bunch of crybabies.
May 20, 2008 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
NICE reminder. Rubbing salt in a wound does not make us gracious winners, and leaves us no room to criticize others for any lack of graciousness we may try to attribute to them. In fact it is time to stop thinking of us and them - regardless of the rhetoric we are addressing. The healing that has to occur is over real wounds, whether all of us believe they were inflicted or not.
May 20, 2008 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
The amount of energy devoted within this website, and more significantly, within the public discourse, to handwringing about Hillary losing and the need to suck upon the toes of her supporters until they feel Obama voters have gratified them sufficiently, is unfortunate.
Besides, the toes are old, and kind of callused, and simply don't taste good. Kind of bitter.
Maybe Dick Morris should get involved.
Obama/Webb 08.
May 20, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
good one! :-)
May 20, 2008 6:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
A prime example of the "unity pony" in full gallop.
:D
May 20, 2008 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
May 20, 2008 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
not again!
May 20, 2008 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your friend and his friends all shat upon that unity suggestion royally and rudely and artlessly, but if you read that thread you reference, you'd know that.
May 20, 2008 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did. Tweren't just "my friends," articleman.
Perhaps you need to review.
May 20, 2008 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
It was the Obama fund raising letter I shat on. After that, they wouldn't let me ride the pony.
May 20, 2008 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Besides, the toes are old, and kind of callused, and simply don't taste good. Kind of bitter.
Wow. You made me gag and laff at the same time.
May 21, 2008 1:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Attention TPM Cafe bloggers who bitch about the quality of posts making it on to the "Recommended Reader Post" list since the "upgrade":
Your pot needs some scrubbing.
May 20, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, lally, can't blame me for it being on the Recommended list, as I didn't vote to Recommended it.
May 20, 2008 10:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
aa.
I don't "blame" you for anything. I just find it amusing that your blog consisting of a quote with no original commentary makes onto a list you have so freely disdained.
May 20, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep.
May 21, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wait till she concedes
I would never trust a Clinton
No unity is needed till she is forced out
May 20, 2008 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is the kind of thing about Obama that makes him such a great candidate - he makes a habit of thinking about how his behavior makes others feel and then does his best to bring his supporters along his path of graciousness, good will and thoughtfulness.
Sure, we think, nay we know, he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that's why we need to honor his request that we behave like adults.
So quit yer sniping, folks.
May 20, 2008 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary is scorching the earth on her way out through false accusations of sexism and unfair treatment, that much is clear:
http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2008/05/hillarys-gender-baiting-campaign-is-in.html
May 20, 2008 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
She must blame someone besides herself; she & Dubya would never admit to their own mistakes.
May 21, 2008 9:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
I still have lost all respect for her. No one would be so touchy about this were it a rival male. I applaud her achievements and as a woman, I thank her for them. But I also expect her to act like it is much bigger than herself. She has never given me that impression.
May 21, 2008 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's my problem with it. It's not bigger than her, it's all about her. All this "You're insulting me" and the demanding and whining is about as far opposite of feminism that I can think of. I'm just so tired of it all.
May 21, 2008 12:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know, she can stay in the race until it's officially over. Whatever. Won't change anything. But she needs to just stop any of this crap she's been pulling for months. She's cut back on a lot of the negativity. But she's still moving the goalpost and changing the rules (in her mind). Until she stops, I'm going to have a problem with her staying in. But as I said, in the end, it doesn't matter, does it? So just let her play her little game. Eventually she'll have to realize it's over.
May 21, 2008 12:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
What would happen if Hillary were trying to block two states full of Obama votes?
May 21, 2008 3:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Moving the goalpost" - you've been listening to Michelle's bitter speeches, haven't you? "Scared and Struggling", she's got that riff down, and now hubby says leave her alone, she's not to be touched. I thought she was going to be the new Jackie O not long ago.
May 21, 2008 8:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
And Jackie is so far down from Ladybird. What a steep hill for someone who is scared and struggling to climb. I'm going to send her some flower seeds.
May 21, 2008 9:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's such a shame that the Republicans have shown much more sanity in the way they got Huckabee to concede gracefully, and Dems just show that they'll let their kingmakers and Her Royal Highness rock the foundations of the party (and the country) and rend the electorate instead of mending the damage.
I'm embarassed that so many Dems are racist and proud of it - pounding away on the WHITE hardworking Americans' votes and deriding Obama as an Affirmative Action candidate.
She has done so much damage, but has remained UNREPENTENT, as are her supporters.
May 21, 2008 12:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Hillary exits the primary gracefully and works hard to get Obama elected I will happily welcome her and her supporters who follow her lead back into the embrace of the Democratic party. If she or any of her supporters give an inkling of not supporting the Democratic nominee I will do my best to see her and any of her elected supporters primaried out of office at the earliest opportunity.
There's no middle ground for me. This election is too important, the work to be done, the legislation to be passed in the coming years far outway any petty grievances or perceived slights they harbor. If they don't see that then whether Obama wins or loses there will be no forgiving and forgetting on my part. In my eyes there can't be. Any Democrat who doesn't commit wholeheartedly to electing the Democratic nominee this year isn't sane and can't be trusted.
May 21, 2008 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Having trashed Hillary as a vile, racist witch (and worse—far worse) for the better part of a year and snarlingly dismissed myself and other Hillary supporters as racist, white-trash goons, how do you propose to convince us to vote for BO? Or do you believe, as does the essentially unemployable Ms. Brazile, that you can win without Catholics, blue collar whites and Latinos? And please, please, please in your response, don’t hesitate to be arrogantly self righteous and insulting (why change now?)
May 21, 2008 12:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why is Donna Brazile unemployable?
May 21, 2008 1:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
chezchas,
I assume you that nobody will be asking you to vote for Obama's supporters.
You will be asked to vote for Obama.
Every candidate has obnoxious supporters. Refusing to vote for a candidate because of that candidate's supporters' behavior is more than spiteful. It's irrational.
If you prefer another candidate to Obama in November, by all means vote for that other candidate. But voting against a candidate purely because you felt insulted by some (or even many) people supporting that candidate simply doesn't make sense.
May 21, 2008 1:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Argh...that's "assure you," obviously
May 21, 2008 1:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
I reality check. Whenever I pointed out that it seems like the Obama campaign is all about Obama, I was told, "Oh no, he's asking people to rise to the occasion, to take the reins of power" or something like that. Well, who are these people who will take these reins of power if not his supporters running around insulting anyone who's not with them, who doesn't see paradise like they do?
We've been through these revolutions before. The little guy in the street with nothing to lose scared me more than Mao. Go watch The Killing Fields. That's People Power to the extreme.
May 21, 2008 3:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wasn't around for those discussion about thhe nature of Obama's campaign, but I'll take a stab at this anyway. I don't buy the "movement" part of the campaign, though I think it's an effective marketing tool and a statement on the nature of our times.
Here's where I see the "we" part come into play: Obama's internet/transparency policies. Because if people -- and not just those who are currently Obama supporters, nor just those who are currently Democrats -- actually have access to information about what's going on with their goverment, they'll start to take a little more ownership of it. Especially if it's easy to do so.
So while the campaign, at this point, is largely about Obama supporters, since they're the ones funding it and running GOTV efforts, the ultimate goal of empowering people has almost nothing to do with the campaign supporters. (Except, I suppose, in the sense that active supporters will be some of the early adopters of any of those tools that become available.)
May 21, 2008 5:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are you seriously comparing Obama to Pol Pot?
I'm sorry, that's simply nuts!
I'm no great fan of Barack Obama. He strikes me a classic "Third Way" Democrat, tied to Wall Street, the Washington Consensus, and the status quo ante Dubya. Kind of like Hillary Clinton.
But to go from the (correct) observation that some of his supporters are a bit utopian in their affection for him to the conclusion that he is, therefore, a totalitarian madman is crazy.
Is the Obama campaign all about Obama? Yes, in precisely the same way that the Clinton campaign is all about Clinton and the McCain campaign is all about McCain. These are ambitious people seeking high office. Of course it's about them.
However each campaign is also, of course, about other things (and people and institutions), too.
So in that sense none of the campaigns are all about the candidate and the candidate alone.
May 21, 2008 7:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, I'm not comparing Obama to Pol Pot, I'm talking about setting loose the "people power" and one of its obvious ends - the self-policing militias and such, the horrid little self-confident drones at the bottom. All the self-righteous tyrants from Socialism "supporting the revolution" by being nasty to their neighbors. I support Clinton because I want a return to relatively unambitious government of the 90's. Tweak welfare? Fine. Have 1 or 2 big goals - fix health care, focus serious attention on the energy problem, otherwise just run the government and balance the books and keep any big wars from sprouting up.
May 21, 2008 8:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
O come on Desidero.
You are talking about one thing and one thing only - the blogs and comments boards where it inevitably evolves into a pitched battle between opposing forces of any issue at all.
Please people - this really isn't so deadly serious.
May 21, 2008 9:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you want a return to the government of the '90s, I completely understand why you support Clinton.
But I have (good) news for you, Desidero. That's basically what Obama wants, too. These are both centrist, "New Democrats" who favor a big military, policies the put Wall St. before Main St., and all the other good stuff we came to expect from Bill Clinton.
Obama has won in part because he's convinced a lot of people who don't want a return to the '90s that he offers something new (I'm not one of, as you can tell). I think they're likely to be disappointed.
But if you just stop paying attention to Obama's followers and start paying attention to the candidate, I think you'll find the corporate militarist "relatively unambitious" president of your dreams.
May 21, 2008 10:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
That sums it up very nicely.
May 21, 2008 10:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
As artapraiser noted recently, he/she is emphatically NOT an Obama supporter.
May 21, 2008 2:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
stupid spelling. p.
May 21, 2008 2:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
She. As far as I know.
May 21, 2008 8:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
When I first started reading this site, I thought Desidero was male. Then I was told, "no, Desidero is female." And then Desidero refuted that himself. So now I've stopped assigning gender unless the poster itself claims one, or the avatar is gendered. It's much easier.
May 21, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
What's starting to get on my last damn nerve is that the calls for gracious winning are drowning out that of gracious losing.
Dismissing the results as sexist - which was today's meme (ala Bill and Gerry) - when everyone knows it was the confluence of an early frontrunner botching her campaign AND one of the best campaigns run in modern political history - while moving the goalpost incessantly and refusing to concede does not inspire magnanimity among his supporters. Meanwhile - as he's done the entire campaign the actual candidate remains gracious.
Does anyone care that he and his supporters have earned the right to celebrate - not in a salty way - but w/out the threats of party desertion and diminishing his victory?!? This was an historic contest which only one candidate has tried at every turn to piss on.
The 'rules' have only ever become 'unfair' for her when she sensed her trouncing. I've got news, much as you want to make strawmen out of his supporters - he has comported hiself w/ dignity. If this spectacle continues too long she won't be able to say the same. Is this really how she wants to be remembered in her historic run?!?
Enough - already. You got to know when to fold.
May 21, 2008 2:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
himself
May 21, 2008 2:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here here! I second that motion.
May 21, 2008 2:38 AM | Reply | Permalink