But when you frame it with "the man himself", you miss the point that all the slinging is done by surrogates, and if anything controversial appears, it's blamed on surrogates. Thus Mr. Obama stays clean.

So start a new thread and talk about Obama + his campaign. We can go to Jesse Jackson Jr. in South Carolina and the same guy just before New Hampshire, but you can also peruse the Daily Howler archives back throughout early 2007 to get a better background of the campaign.

You can also click on my name and go through previous postings. I've laid it out in rather thorough detail.

My opinion pretty much all along has been that Sen. Clinton would be a better bet to make a better President at this point in her career, and in his. I think that basically because I am a "Clinton" man thru and thru - I thought her husband was the finest all-around President of my rather lengthy lifetime, and I'm more than willing to take a chance that she can carry THIS stong policy tradition forward:

Sound fiscal and economic policy, true preparation for an INEVITABLE global economy (with all that implies for health care, energy policy, modern job-training, etc), positive engagement in the broader, inevitably-interconnected world, and just a whole broad range of sophisticated approaches on many simultaneous fronts (as well as the occasional educated improvisation) that will move us forward to best advantage into the 21st century. This is the type of integrated leadership in my opinion that can only EFFECTIVELY flow from deep understanding, long, hard, and gifted thinking, and a lifetime of work in these areas. In a nutshell, THAT's why I think we are making a mistake not to put Sen. Clinton into position to carry that work forward to its next logical level.

As for Sen. Obama, my primary objection to him AS PRESIDENT, is that he has not demonstrated these qualities at this point to a sufficient extent for me to believe that he has that grasp. He MAY, I don't (and can't) know. And I want to KNOW, as best as humanly possible.

[Quick story, to the point:

Machine broke in factory. 20 Engineers studied charts, experimented, consulted, days passed - no luck. Couldn't get it running. Called-in retired old-time maintenance man who had helped install the thing many years prior. He walked around the machine for 5 minutes, took a hammer and tapped on it. Presto! It took off. Later, he sent an itemized bill for services: Total $1002.00. Tapping - $2.00. KNOWING WHERE TO TAP - $1000.00.}

I DO have some reservations about the sort of culture in which the Senator has immersed himself, and the sort of people who comprise a significant part of both his background and his current support. I'm not saying they may not be OK from SOME point-of-view, I'm just saying they don't seem like MY kind of people. There are a few secondary issues like that, and a few suspicious campaign moments that (no doubt) stick in my mind. The fact is, I can probably be brought around on those points, if that turns out to be the whole problem.

I'm not SURE yet about my MAIN point: I'm NOT a "hallaluyah" guy. I don't care how big a crowd he draws, or how excited his strongest supporters get. I'm going to have to be convinced that this is a man of genuine depth and substance (we KNOW that his opponents already are), with a genuine capacity to learn and grow his way into the job. If I just don't feel that in November, I may not be there. It's up to him at this point, and time alone will tell.

query the sexism too? I have been at a loss. I even heard one guy say Obama was behind the 'Bro's over Ho's t-shirts, but that is ridiculous!

Short form: Obama is to liberalism what George W. Bush is to conservatism.

Another short form: would you even consider voting for anyone who hung out with people who talked about blacks the way the people Obama hung out with talked about whites?

I have an answer, as I personally know many, many, many people, women over 50 in particular, that feel, to the depths of their souls that she was "entitled". The tasteless, tacky, deplorable diatribe from that priest was pretty much on target, but just way, way, way beyond the pale. But, many people just KNOW that Obama "stole" her election.

The Obama campaign gave me this universal translator gizmo, let's see if I can turn it on and get it to . . . there we go . . .

"I really believe that the radical core of Clintonistas are raci -- . . . have a less hopeful view of racial relations in America than Obama supporters do."

I hated the Clinton campaign. But Obama's own speech about race ought to give us resources to think more imaginatively about all this, without leaning on the r-word so much. There are a lot of white people out there who don't hate black people but do dislike the idea that they're required to be sensitive about race. The narrative of this campaign has been guaranteed to irritate that kind of person, because there have been unending debates about "Is Ferraro a racist or isn't she?"

Of course, a lot of those debates were fired up by the Clintons, and I don't think it was an accident. But by using the r-word we just perpetuate that strategy, when we could be rising above it.

I don't think the core of Clinton's supporters (the core we saw at the RBC event) are racist. Of course, there are regions where his race is a liability.

I, however, have met someone who would warn me that Obama is not electable because other people wouldn't vote for somebody named Obama and because other people aren't ready to vote for a black. This person once wondered out loud if the slogan "Change You Can Believe In" is grammatical, the grammatically correct alternative being "Change In Which You Can Believe". Of course this person I met wasn't one of those bigots. I think some amount of discomfort with otherness lingers with some people.

I hate the blanket statement that Clinton's core support is racist though.

She does have 6 years on him in the US Senate and if you discount her experience as first lady then you must discount his experience as state senator. First Lady requires much more than that.

And that is why so many Clinton supporters cannot stomach Obama supporters. The assumption that the only reason I could prefer a woman to a black man is because I must be a racist who can't vote for a black man. Forget his religiosity and how much it offends me. Forget his pathetic health care reform plan and his worse than pathetic tax reform. That's immaterial. It's just that he's black.

For just one minute think about that. You are saying we owe him our votes because he's black. He doesn't have to earn our votes because of his positions or policies, but because he's black, we have to justify not supporting him, because we OWE him. That is your implied position. Wow! For whom is race the overriding issue?

Kash, you continue to amaze me. You are the ultimate breath of young, fresh air.

Pardon me for trying to sniff you.

But, oh!!! How I love your approach to politics! How I love your scent.

Sense.

Scent.

Whatever.

OK, this may not be the most sensitive or politically correct way of saying it, but I've been trying to figure this out for a long time and I believe this goes along with the entitlement theory.

Let's take a hard look at her most fervant supporters...they are women, 45-65, right? I bet if you peel back the layers and look a little deeper, most of them have had to give up something or some part of themselves for the men in their lives - whether it was their father, brother, husband, boyfriend, boss or son - and the male was not as grateful as he could/should have been.

There is obviously a simmering resentment that they lost an opportunity or time or youth or something...and this is transposed onto Hillary and this campaign. She represents them finally winning. They saw her swallow all the humiliation from Bill, she is "one of them".

Have you looked in their eyes? They are rabid - some of them were sobbing in the halls after the MI & FLA decision yesterday. This is way too personal for them. If you ask them what her positions are on issues, half of them couldn't even tell you. She is working out their drama dream.