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A Plea for Decency
The last week or so there have numerous references to McCain as having "senior moments, implying that McCain has some sort of dementia or Alzheimer's disease.
First, implying that McCain has these symptoms trivializes the suffering that millions of families go through every year when a family member goes through these illnesses. Using these terms makes McCain an object of ridicule, and by implication, all those with these problems should similarly be the subject of ridicule.
Further, this sort of name-calling is not what politics should be about. Saying that McCain has "senior moments" is a personal insult to him. It lowers the level of politics to a farce of name-calling, rather than a battle over ideas.
If Obama has shown us anything, it is that politics does not have to be about Rovian games. It does not have to be about who is able to say "I'm rubber and you're glue...." the fastest. There are many important issues to discuss in the upcoming season. Don't dilute the discussion with ad hominem attacks.
So by all means attack McCain's stand on the Iraq War. Attack his stand on tax cuts for the wealthy. Just don't trivialize the discussion by implying that the other candidate has mental problems. It does not reflect well on you, and it does political discourse no good at all.
Comments (45)
"Shoot 'em in the back!" - Uncle Fester
May 21, 2008 11:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hear! Hear!
If we can't win on the issues alone and have to go to demonization, we haven't figured out how to make our case to the undecided voter.
Let's keep our minds sharp.
May 21, 2008 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed.
May 21, 2008 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed, except that I think it's fair to point out when he does have problems keeping his facts straight (e.g., Iran supporting Al Qaeda). I'd argue that is an important quality. We should do it respectfully, but we should do it.
May 21, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely, Ben. Pointing out a poor understanding of pretty important things has nothing to do with age. People make it about age when they pull the whole senior moment BS (which I think started with Brit Hume?), but if Obama or Clinton were consistently getting their facts wrong, they'd get hammered.
May 21, 2008 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think people trend towards comments like "senior moment" because the only other option would be to take him as an utter moron.
For someone on the Senate Armed Services Committee to consistently make incorrect references regarding the wars that our country is currently involved in makes me hope and pray that these are just "senior moments". The thought that this is something more significant than him knowing the correct information and just simply speaking the wrong words is terrifying.
Screw the presidency! If McCain doesn't actually know the difference between Sunni and Shiia. If he doesn't actually know that al-queda and Iran don't get along, then he has no business in his current position!
May 21, 2008 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed Ben. It is absolutely fair game to call McCain on his inability to know basic facts about things like the difference between sunnis and shia, etc. On the other hand, I think that we are the Party that enacted the Age Discrimination in Employment Act in 1967 (nothwithstanding its exceptions for executive personnel), and we recognize, like so many cultures come and gone, the value of our most senior citizens. I don't like making fun of McCain's age; it just seems so contrary to what we're all about. But that does not mean that McCain should in any way get a pass for not knowing important facts.
May 21, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Early onset Alzheimer's, or are Civics and Geography not valued in Jonestown?
May 21, 2008 9:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
So he said "states" when he meant "states and/or territories/districts". At least he didn't say "under sniper fire" when he meant "there was no sniper fire". Whoops, sorry. My unity's slipping. ;)
May 21, 2008 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Alzheimer's will affect 50 percent of all U.S. citizens by the time they reach age 85. It is always fatal. Many millions of other citizens will be sapped of their strength and finances as caregivers for their affected loved ones. In short, it is this country's most pervasive and damaging health care crisis on the near horizon. As Frog Leg points out, dementia and Alzheimer's are not epithets to bandy about casually if we intend to win over our country's most reliable voters, those 60 and over.
May 21, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's worth noting that the voters most concerned about McCain's age are senior citizens.
May 21, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not quite.
The 50% figure is the risk of an 85-year-old getting Alzheimer's in their remaining lifetime. The percentage of men 71 and older who have Alzheimer's is 11%, according to this (see figure 1):
http://www.alz.org/national/documents/report_alzfactsfigures2008.pdf
May 21, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was correct. The figure you cite is the risk factor for men at age 71. For women, it is 16 percent at age 71.
From "Maintain Your Brain" by the Alzheimer's Association:
"Well-established risk factors for Alzheimer’s disease are genetics and aging; 10 percent of those over age 65 and 50 percent of those over 85 have Alzheimer’s."
http://www.alz.org/national/documents/brochure_maintainyourbrain.pdf
May 21, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Um, it's not the Alzheimers that's fatal...its the being over 85 part.
May 22, 2008 1:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
"First, implying that McCain has these symptoms trivializes the suffering that millions of families go through every year when a family member goes through these illnesses. Using these terms makes McCain an object of ridicule, and by implication, all those with these problems should similarly be the subject of ridicule."
Absurd nonsense. McCain is running for president - a job which, as Bushit has abundantly demonstrated, requires one have all one's faculties and wits about one.
Otherwise, if the Republicans -- and McCain -- can attack the characters of others, then he opens himself to having the same sort of attacks leveling the playing field at the gutter-level at which the Republicans prefer to operate.
None of that says anything whatsoever about private citizens of any kind.
May 21, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
The main reason that politics is in the gutter is because this type of name-calling is allowed to fester. Tolerating it pollutes the discourse of politics and crowds out the substance.
May 21, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
When Limbaugh stops laughing along with, "Barack the Magic Negro," then we can talk.
May 21, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
We're not discussing whether or not Limbaugh has Alzheimer's.
Frog Leg (with Ben's caveat) is right. No need to go there with a candidate like McCain anyway. We can take maintain our self-respect and elect a Democratic president too.
May 21, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I find it ridiculous to even suggest that Democrats have fallen to a Republican level by pointing out McCain's age. The RNC has established an awfully low level of conduct.
May 21, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
But but can I please still call Clinton "Shrillary" and defend "pimping"???
May 21, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously Lalo, this post isn't even about Clinton. It's like you're trying to start a devisive conversation about Clinton-Obama by even bringing this up.
Back to our subject. So what do you think about McCain?
May 21, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
same principle for everyone, or nothing
May 21, 2008 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone who agrees this principle should be applied to McCain would obviously feel the same about Clinton.
Those who don't think it should be applied to McCain might or might not think it also shouldn't be applied to Clinton.
May 21, 2008 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, honestly. I am so sick of this "anytime anyone uses any derogatory term about Hillary, its sexist" shit. I think Paul Krugman has been pretty shrill of late. Does that make me sexist for saying so?
She's running for president. She's gonna get called some names. Having a vagina does not give her a "get out of being called names" card.
May 21, 2008 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
To me it's all about preventing the narrartive that she lost. After KY she was speaking about the race as if it was a virtual tie and now it's up to the SD's to choose. If they 'choose' Obama then she'll say it was stolen form her! She ran, "won" the popular vote and the the mean ol' boys club took away what she (and the sisterhood) worked so hard for! This will invariably cause her supporters to look at Obama as a criminal that stole from them. She knows this. She doesn't care.
May 21, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
The defenses I have seen to this type of name-calling is very similar to the one of Bush et al.'s defense of torture, "we know they would do it to us, so why not fire with fire?"
And the response to both arguments is the same. We should stop doing it not because the other side doesn't deserve it, but instead because by not doing it we show our arguments to be superior.
In other words, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," not "do unto others as they do unto you."
May 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like the Budhist formulation. Do not unto others what you would not have done to you.
May 21, 2008 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are cordoning. The mental faculties of a presidential candidate are pretty much the prime factor when choosing one, right after their bowling score.
To present perhaps another side of the coin, simply trying to portray McCain as the Incoherent Angry Old Guy directly will probably not succeed and in any case will offer a simple strawman to knock down to distract
So to argue intelligently, one must bring attention to McCain's shortcomings in the thinking department, just uncategorically. Point out the errors he frequently makes, his memory lapses, and point out the pattern. It has nothing to do with his age and everything with simply not being up to the job.
McCain completely lacks the ability to think strategically. We could kindly say that we are certain he is an excellent tactical commander from his fighter pilot wing leader or whatever days (although apparently he was not), but he is incapable of the strategic thinking that an Admiral or a President needs. This is vividly obvious in all his policies which are all a variation of accepting a mission and trying to use any means possible to achieve it--instead of defining what the mission actually should be.
And if it should turn out McCain actually DOES have Altzheimer's, it should be treated as any other disease that renders him incapable of performing the job.
May 21, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Was it not a spokesperson for McCain who used the "senior moment' expression to explain his Sunni/Shiia gaffes?
May 21, 2008 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think your whole argument bestows a certain level of validation on McCain's screw-ups.
I would actually argue that your post trivializes the plight of people truly affected with these debilitating illnesses by comparing McCain's gaffe's with what they are going through.
McCain may have a lot of issues this election, but demensia or Alzheimers isn't one of them. I think the media actually provides him some cover for these screw-ups because of his age and letting him off the hook for not having his facts straight will get a lot of soldiers killed if he becomes President.
May 21, 2008 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're absolutely right. It is terribly insensitive to discuss McCain's mental status.
So, have you noticed how much larger McCain's left cheek is? I wonder if his cancer's back.
May 21, 2008 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think many people would pick up on where you're trying to go with this... :-(
May 21, 2008 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Contrary to belief, Obama supporters are not utter morons. Yes, I get it. And Lalo, it is no more fair to accuse all Obama supporters of saying "Shillary," etc than it is to accuse all Hillary supporters of calling Obama names. Ironic, too, your posturing of wounded outrage when your avatar is designed to insult Obama.
May 21, 2008 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Turns out those "senior moments" might be evidence of wisdom....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/20/health/research/20brai.html?ref=health
May 21, 2008 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Except he is spouting the "clutter" and not the "wisdom" of what his brain is exposed to... witness Sunni v. Shia screw-up, etc.
May 21, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
ARGH!
AVAST YE SCURVY CHILDREN! WEAKLINGS ALL!
VOTE THE CANDIDATE THAT I DIG
IT'S WENCH HILLARY, WE'LL HAVE A BALL!
IF NOT, YE GET THE BRIG!
ACQUIRE! MERGE! MARAUD! DILUTE! DILUTE!
ARGH!
May 21, 2008 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it name calling to simply observe that McCain is a liar?
May 21, 2008 11:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am against calling him names, because it is a serios issue. I am against not discussing the issue at all, because it is a serious issue. Am I the only one here old enough to remember Reagan's last two years? Is there anyone else who remembers how it was and how dangerous it could have been if his decline had begun just a few years earlier, like, say, before Andropov died? Does anyone recall how people other than the guy that was actually elected were actually running the government during his last year?
McCain's age, health and mental fitness are legitimate issues. Loss of mental acuity and the rapidity with which it can sometimes occur is a fact of aging and its something people need to consider and ought to consider, just like any other health issue a candidate might have.
Old people are not going to be insulted because the issue is out there, because its an ever-present part of their lives. Some of their friends are fine, some of them aren't. Some of their friends they'll get in a car with and some they think about ratting out to the DMV for their own good.
That's why I'm not sure their belief that Hillary is a better candidate because of her age and experience will transfer neatly over to McCain. They know all too well the difference between themselves at 60 and at 72.
May 21, 2008 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain's age cannot be dismissed as a non-issue. Do I think it's an extremely important issue? No. But I don't think one can simply dismiss it and take it off of the discussion table.
That said, I agree that people need to stop the name-calling, and purporting McCain's screw-ups to dementia or Alzheimer's. The only way one could do that is if he is, in fact, diagnosed with such. As I doubt that will happen, we should refrain from such things. Let's not lower ourselves to Republican standards. That's what they would do if things were the other way around this election season.
May 22, 2008 12:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bravo!
May 22, 2008 12:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
we ain't playing beanbag
and mcsame's mental health IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE IF HE WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT
I wouldn't trust him to drive a car, much less run the country
call me whatever you like
getting old people out of the driver's seat saves lives
why put a senile old fool in the oval office
it ain't pretty, or politically corect
but being politically correct can KILL PEOPLE
so that ain't really politically correct
May 22, 2008 3:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Does "a senior moment" really imply Alzheimers? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here. But I'm lucky enough that neither of my parents suffered Alzheimers. And yet it's sure not uncommon for my Dad to have gotten frustrated at a remote control or a computer program, or for my mom to mix up people's names or push 1940's values over 2008 values. Aren't those senior moments... and something to be wary of in a presidential candidate?
Would "he's just confused" be any less insulting, assuming he really IS just confused?
Again. I'm actually curious, here.
May 22, 2008 3:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think that Sen. McCain's age may be a legitimate concern for voter's but should not be emphasized in directing attention to mistakes or policy gaffes. Simply point them out or refute them on merit. Do I worry that some of these mistakes may be symptoms of early onset of Alzheimer's or some other traumatic disorder? Sure. Another reason why I would not vote for him. But petty references to being an "old man", "senior moments", or specifically to Alzheimer's is devisive and offensive to many active elderly voters and to the families of people who have had to watch a loved one suffer through this horrible disease; people who you are trying to persuade to vote for your candidate. Having just ended that terrible journey with my mother this past year, I can tell you that you don't know a gut punch until you have to introduce yourself to a parent for the first time and they still have no idea who you are. You also don't know the angst and guilt of hoping someone you love will simply die quickly because there is no treatment. On the other hand you also cannot know the depth of anger at a political party that panders to right wing idiots that hold up promising research like stem cell derived therapies for not only Alzheimer's but many other debilitating and life threatening diseases to assuage their moral sensibilities for political gain. Please, have your fun in private if you like, I will probably slip up myself sometime, but in a public forum or among strangers try to stick to the issues, of which age can be one, but in a respectful manner. Thanks for the post Frog Leg.
Having gotten that out, here is an interesting article from "LiveScience" on "The Secret Medical Records of Presidential Candidates".
http://www.livescience.com/history/080521-presidential-medical-records.html
May 22, 2008 6:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
TPM is losing its bearings.
May 22, 2008 8:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah I've already seen smears on this site about McCain recording communist propaganda tapes while in Vietnam (if he it was only because of horrendous torture) and out right lies about when he did or didn't divorce his first wife (try to gin up some cheating with Cindy story). We don't need to smear McCain to win. Remember, if you wrestle with a pig you both get muddy and the pig likes it.
May 22, 2008 9:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
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