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You might be a troll if…
You might be a troll if…
• Your avatar is of a candidate other than the one you support.
• Most of your posts are about the problems with a candidate other than the one you support.
• Your idea of a mature discussion is an invective laced with words unsuitable for children.
Feel free to add to the list, but please:
• Avoid references to any particular candidate.
• Avoid (explicit) references to any particular poster.
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Comments (67)
This will make everyone a troll after Obama wraps-up the nomination and we quit focusing on HRC. (hopefully sooner than later)
April 8, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why's that? You don't think we can discuss the issues without focusing solely on McCain's negatives?
April 8, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was not attempting to derail this thread or insult the poster, Ben. I have been perusing the conservative blogs recently to get a feel for their state of mind and what's going to arrive on the democratic nominee very soon. Blogs are usually ahead of the MSM.
I have come to two conclusions:
1. They love the fact that people on sites like this are spending an extraordinary amount of time arguing HRC vs Obama, while they plan out a strategy against Obama (Yes, they think Obama will take it although they would rather see Hillary)
2. Although I do not support HRC, if she does capture the nomination - I will vote for her. I've lost interest in focusing on Clinton as an effort to convert those that will not see.
If I am correct, once the HRC vs Obama bickering is done they will immediately launch the 527's and whisper attacks. High minded cerebral jousting is not what they are interested in exchanging.
No offense to Ben. I just think its time to start circling the wagons.
April 8, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent work, vox. Please continue your top-secret trolling of conservative blogs and report back on their strategy so that we can counter it and save the Democrats from a tragic loss at the hands of these devious bloggers. It would be best for you to go deep cover and post in secret code, as they might catch on to you and start feeding you false information.
April 8, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Genghis, you got me again. good one!
April 8, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
There strategy is obvious. It's her strategy.
April 8, 2008 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wasn't taking any offense, I was just curious as to why you thought we (collectively) would resort to trollish behavior. If I understand what you're saying (and I'm not sure I do), it seems that you're arguing that it would be a form of self-defense against other trolls. Is that what you're saying?
If so, I'll have to respectfully disagree. I think we can fight trolls without being trolls (or even troll-like).
April 8, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
You may be correct. Incidentally, I was not advocating trollish behavior. I just do not see an effective way of reasoning with right-wing trolls, in my opinion the loudest. (no actual trolls were harmed in this exchange)
April 8, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
We must combat their Evil Strategery...
April 8, 2008 10:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if you bitterly hop from one site to another as soon as you have angered the natives.
April 8, 2008 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if you:
try to derail new postings by being first to comment with an off-topic insult to the poster.
go in after others have stopped posting to a thread and wrap it up with a dismissive sneer.
April 8, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if your post contains no original thought, but is merely copy/pasting text from questionable sources.
April 8, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Troll has become a loosely used accusation attempting to discount people, mostly here at TPM, who oppose Obama for whatever reason.
One of my very earliest post at TPM objected to the insults and offensive accusations of many writers. The only time I've seen Josh attempt to police the comments is when they venture into anti-Jewish or anti-Semetic remarks. In any case, there is no need for insults and offensive accusations, regardless of the candidate that you might support. Labeling some as racist, as a troll, as a blithering idiot, and so forth does not make for intelligent conversation and reflects very poorly on those writing such trash as well as the candidate they claim to support.
You note, I suspect my picture of Obama is one you reference. Do you object that I use a picture of Obama like many others, or that it is one from December wherein he is smoking, or that I have placed a circle an bar over it? Yes, I make two statements with the avatar, one is to say no to Obama and the other to say no to smoking. I opted for the Obama avatar after suffering insulting markups and insults by Obama supporters regarding my own picture.
Finally, while you are talking about trolls, why not talk about who each of you really are. While many writers apparently share their own names and identities, others hide being anonymous names. Personally, this to me defines a troll, anyone not willing to put their own name and identity behind their comments and opinions.
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 8, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do note your picture, and I think your argument for using it would be more reasonable (presumably most would not want to deface a picture of their own candidate) if you hadn't chosen a picture that highlights one of the negatives that you think is important. Your avatar is not the one I had in mind, by the way, but I'll leave it at that. (You'll also see avatars that show Clinton in an unflattering light.)
I agree that identifying one's self does encourage more civil discussions, but I also respect that there are reasons that certain people would not want to divulge their real identities.
Finally, note that these are a list of warning signs (note the word might) rather than definitive proof. Having more than one of these signs increases the likelihood, of course.
April 8, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
My name is Genghis. And I'm a troll.
April 8, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
No you aren't.
April 8, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
GFYWAIR, Larry. Who made you Great Leader? It is my constitutional right to pretend to be a troll and Matthew Weaver's constitutional right to pretend not to be one.
April 8, 2008 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
As it is my right to gainsay everything you post. (I am forced to refrain most of the time because I enjoy the snark though.)
April 8, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do your worst. I will not be gainsayed. Kensdad tried to gainsay me once. Hasn't been seen since.
April 8, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
My name is Dorn76, an I am a Bearded Dragon lizard from Western Australia. There, you happy now?
April 8, 2008 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dorn, please don't go off-thread. This is a troll thread, not a bearded-dragon-lizard-from-western-australia thread. That one didn't make the recommended list for obvious reasons.
April 8, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
First, your picture is antagonistic. Though I do wish Obama had stayed a smoker. It would swing a lot of votes his way in the general.
Second, yes, I agree that people shouldn't call others bad names. Or accuse them of being "immoral" or a "liar" without making an effort to show evidence for such labels, as I saw one do to a pro-Obama poster this morning.
Third, I really am Bat Guano. I use this name on a weird little radio show here in Kalamazoo. I've been Bat since August 1990. And I've been Bat on the web since I got on the AOL around 1994. The photo is of the lead singer of the German band Trio. No particular reason to use it, except I like the band and I like the sunglasses.
But really, not a lot of people want to use their real names on the internets. A lot of people know how google works, and the last thing someone needs is for an uptight Republican boss to find their heated discussion on why McCain is a blankety blank.
April 8, 2008 4:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
what a racist blithering idiotic troll (and so forth).
David
http://www.crackpotwebsitefilledwithadhominemattacks.com
April 8, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
*snark* (in case it wasn't obvious to everyone already...)
April 8, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if you openly display a total lack of brains and repeat the same stuff time and again, even when it does not even indirectly address the subject of a post or comment.
April 8, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if:
You use the phrase "throw under the bus" in more than 50% of your posts.
April 8, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
*looks at the first point, and then at her avatar* Hmmm... I never thought of that... Rena Ryugu... President Ryugu... Has a neat ring to it! Okay, I switch sides! RYUGU/BIDEN '08!!!!!!! XD All the idealism of Barack Obama, and the additional power to TAKE ENTIRE NATIONS HOME WITH US!!!!! XD ...Forgive me. Couldn't resist. ^^
April 8, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oooooh, darn. Now I broke the first rule, didn't I, Ben Hocking- Oh shoot! There goes the second one too. >_
April 8, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's wrong with Obama smokin?
The Marlboro man? Phillip Morris?
Since when is smoking objectionable. (LOL)
April 8, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not an Obama guy by any stretch of the imagination; I don't even like him at this point in the campaign. But I'm an ex-smoker and every day I wake up I know that I'm one cigarette away from a horrible addiction. It's been a year and a half now after falling off the wagon for a couple of years, which was preceded by a ten-year non-smoking rennaisance. On the issue of quitting smoking, I honestly do feel Senator Obama's pain. Now if I could only find more reasons to bond with him; scratch that, I'm comfortable with our relationship as is. :)
April 8, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bruce,
I'm an ex-smoker too; I quit cold turkey about 16 years ago. Once or twice a month I dream I can smoke but not be addicted. It's my favorite dream.
The best advice anyone ever gave me about quitting smoking is that the first twenty-five years are the hardest.
In solidarity,
rtbag
April 8, 2008 11:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I quit three and a half weeks ago (but who's counting?). It's been tough, but I think that I've had it easier than most. Wish me (and Barack) luck.
April 9, 2008 1:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ohmygod, Genghis! That's awesome. Seriously, good luck to you, Barack, Bruce, and me too (I still have 9 years to go).
April 9, 2008 3:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Antidote to trolldom---Orwell's advice for political writing:
i. Never use a metaphor, simile or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
ii. Never use a long word where a short one will do.
iii. If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
iv. Never use the passive where you can use the active.
v. Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
vi. Break any of these rules sooner than say anything barbarous.
[Last item especially recommended.]
April 8, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, but that requires actual thinking, Tom. (I mean that as much as self-criticism as anything else. I'm sure I break most of these rules on a semi-regular basis, and I agree that they are excellent rules.)
April 8, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the essay containing those rules ("Politics and the English Language") Orwell makes the case that empty slogans tend to preclude or abort thought. So following the rules, rather than needing thought to employ, encourages clearer thinking in the first place.
April 8, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if you have to use an aster*sk to replace a letter in every one of your p*sts.
April 8, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
you beat me to it! D*mn!
You might be a troll if you end all of your messages with the text equivalent of a maniacal cackle: muah hahahahaha....!
April 8, 2008 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you serious? If I wanted a steady dose of this I could just take Newsweek.
I started spending time on blogs mainly because the people were so damned creative and smart and funny and I don't like it when it's just nasty, either. But all this trying to control dialog really bugs me a lot.
I hate gentrification.
April 8, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
If late-comer bloggers like me are posting here, it's too late, this place is already gentrified....
April 8, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if you continue your protestations against being called a troll.
April 8, 2008 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if I say you're a troll.
April 8, 2008 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you can't stop entering consecutive comments to a blog, you might be a troll.
April 8, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
If every comment is snark, but really well hidden, like a Bosnian sniper, you might be a troll.
April 8, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ben, great job incorporating the word "troll" into the title of a post.
This is, as Allsburg once remarked, a metapost, e.g., a post about posting.
*echo*
*echo*
After my recent post about posting, which I think became the second most recommended post at one point, I contemplated the ultimate test of my theory of successful posting -- a post called "Obama Good, Clinton Bad," without text, to see if it would lure in reflexively angry posters (e.g., trolls). But then I thought you would all think my blank post was idiotic (no offense to Idiotic) and seriously intended, and it would likely have received a disturbing number of recommendations.
April 8, 2008 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I once "wrote" a blog post on my personal site, titled "This post left intentionally blank". Just a little social experiment.
I received 3 times the typical comments than usual.
I guess simpler is better.
April 8, 2008 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if...
All you noted sources have possible ties to the KKK, Nazi Germany, or the He-Man Woman Haters Club.
April 8, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll ... if you now spell every instance of "right" with a w.
April 8, 2008 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if you can't write a post without including that defiant caveat "I know I'm going to get labeled a sexist/racist for saying this, but..." or by appending the sarcastic "...so I guess that must make me a racist/sexist!" to your comments.
April 8, 2008 7:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if you think most TPM posters are accusing you of being racist.
Of course, if you believe that most people on TPM think you're a racist, that also might be a sign that you're racist.
April 8, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if you have more straw men in a single post than friends in your real world.
April 8, 2008 7:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if TPM is your real world.
April 9, 2008 12:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
you might be a troll if you actuallt believe that idiotic is a troll.
(we have way too much time on our hands)
April 8, 2008 11:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if Obama's father's purported religion is of greater value to you than Obama's policy positions.
April 9, 2008 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
ooops! I just violated your instructions and referred to a candidate.
Troll!
April 9, 2008 12:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if you think David Brooks, William Safire, Dick Morris, Maureen Dowd, or Peggy Noonan have valuable insights about Democrats or you cite their articles as "must-reads."
April 9, 2008 12:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if you call either candidate a "vile harpy."
April 9, 2008 1:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Barack Obama is a vile harpy.
April 9, 2008 1:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
You might be a troll if you're green and live under a bridge.
April 9, 2008 1:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's a specious allegation.
At best.
April 9, 2008 3:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Trolls put links to their own master's theses, showing off fancy TeX typography, and making fun of older posters who had to do their goddamned theses on Selectric typewriters using five elements (balls to those in the field) because of equations and Greek and Russian and Script characters, typing only a few lines at a time because paper slips when you go back to do super- or subscripts in a different element, where one mistake on a page means the whole f**king page must be retyped.
That's why older posters, being made fun of by trolls, did their theses in longhand until that magic day when it got approved and then typed up the whole mess at night in the secretary's office because who could afford a $700 Selectric typewriter.
Trolls suck!
And they use SUVs to travel uphill in the snow to class. Unlike real people.
April 9, 2008 9:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm ashamed to admit that for that thesis I did not use TeX, but rather MS Equation Editor inside of MS Word. I have since repented and now use either LaTeX or OO.o as much as possible.
April 9, 2008 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
My thanks to Ben for providing a forum for this discussion. Given my Bona Fides on the subject, and being a true connoisseur of the genre, I thought I'd take a moment to add a few words to the discussion. Unfortunately, due to scheduling, my time as critic will be limited this week, but I'm hoping to shed a bit of light on the current landscape here at TPM. I had planned to compile a post of this nature into a weekly Trollywood Minute, but again, thanks to scheduling that will have to wait for the time being.
Without highlighting particular performers, TPM is graced with a number of known trolls, along with a few posters who have adopted the habit for one reason or another but do not fall into the true Trollus species as it were.
Two of our performers are known from a host of other sites. These are Natural Born performers, interested only in engaging an emotion response with readers in an attempt to get a bit of attention - their Rage Against the Reasoned is part of the schtick, as their contributions would otherwise drive little in the way of discussion. Sockpuppets come and go in association, but a simple linguistic analysis makes it easy to spot these associations (think uncommon shared misspellings, structure and phrasing). These are by far the most fun to critique - countering nonsense with nonsense that's at least funny gives us a net positive, by my thinking at least ;)
There are a number of other Drive By types in the mix on a day-to-day basis. I have not taken the time to backtrack phrase structure or naming conventions to some of the better-known marshaling sites, but I'm sure most longtime readers here can spot them and understand the Winger nature of their input. The Drive By Troll is a well-known archetype - and there are many more standard archetypes for those curious enough to research. I'll continue to try to point out these archetypes during my critiques when i can. (**Extra Credit - TrollCritic 3000 is, itself, an archetype.)
With that said - it's important to note that a couple of posters on this site who have been labeled trolls over the last month or two are, in fact, not. As I've noted above, they have adopted the habits and methods of the true Trollus among us, but we might think of them as simply Confrontational Leaning without a firm basis to model it on in a way that would likewise be seen as simply Spirited in a face to face discussion. One can be a Contrarian without being a true Contrarian Troll, and simply being a contrarian, no matter how vocal, does not necessarily lead to adoption of other core Troll Characteristics.
My methodologies as critic are designed to flush these traits into focus to aid in the identification of the true performers in our midst. If they happen to make you laugh in the process, well, we'll just call that Gravy :)
April 9, 2008 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am not worthy.
April 9, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ha :) I was working on a snarky If you model a TrollTest on a Frickin' Foxworthy Bit append, but didn't want to risk the snark not being obvious in light of the clinical feel of the rest. :)
April 9, 2008 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you post comments so often that it seems to be your full-time job, you might be a troll.
April 9, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
While you guys were busy listing droll troll attributes, TPM's clock has been cleaned by a sweet naive college student who's "been for Obama since the beginning" but is now regurgitating in a most earnest tone every stale Clinton talking point as if they were the so compelling that she's now moving over to the Clinton camp. Add to list.
April 9, 2008 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
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