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Who are the Clinton supporters on TPM?

I have noticed a little big of amplification of the voices of Clinton supporters on TPM.

If you support Clinton, post a comment here, and recommend this post, so that it stays in the mix.


Comments (52)

LIEK HAI I LOVE HILLARYS CUZ SHE HAS EXPERIENCES AND WE NEED THAT TO CONTINUE THE WAR ON THE BROWN PEOPLES.

Dr. Sanjay, best laugh I've had today. Thanks much.

Does it really matter?

I am a proud supporter of the Clintons. Great leaders of the Dem party.

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I support Clinton. I still believe she can win.

Here's a video that'll help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGTinqw-CFE

I'd say you're still in stage 1.

Wow, 3 dopes. Big deal.

Opps, another dope just snuck in. That's 4.

DAMN YOU HUMAN LOGIC, FALLIABLE SCIENCE, I'll HAVE NONE OF YUR 'MATHS' SHE CAN WIN SHE'S R GIRL LOLOLOLOOL

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Hmm I'd venture to say my level of education tops the majority of the posters on this site, but I'll take a crack at your math:

Superdelegates are not pledged. This should be painfully obvious as they have switched from Clinton, who initially had the "momentum" to Obama. It should now be clear that Obama is hurting. He is likely to lose Indiana and North Carolina is looking closer by the day. He will not be able to put her away. If she does end up winning the majority of the remaining contests, which is plausible, the superdelegates will be tempted to switch back to Clinton.

What's your argument against this? A delegate lead by Obama? Clinton had the delegate lead for some time and SDs continued to endorse Obama. Clinton is closing in on the popular vote (excluding MI) and is now seen by many as the stronger candidate against McCain. So yes, your simple analysis of the situation must be correct. Good job.

A sweeping (60-80%) win is not plausible, that is what she needs, not a 9% win like PA. Maybe if you stopped listening to the right-wing garbage comming out of Hillary's mouth you'd realize how asinine you sound. And no, I'm not a "Birkenstock-wearing-obamabot-lib'ral" I'm just disgusted with how when there's a choice between a right-wing conservative and a midly-left wing candidate in a democratic race, people still flock to the old power establishment of the right.

Venture away about the level of education here. You do realize you sound a little snotty about your level of education, don't you? Anyway, as of today, during what could be described as Obama's worst week ever, he has gained the endorsement of two delegates. Since Hillary's 9 point win in PA, she has gotten 3 super delegates and Obama has gotten 7. I know math is a difficult subject for Hillary supporters but maybe you should take a math class.

Here is some math for you to look at. It may not be as clear cut as you might think.
Math.

Find me 5 SDs that haven't endorsed that are going to vote for a candidate based on national votes. You won't be able to, but what you will find is that the majority, 60% of the remaining SDs, say they will support the Dem nominee with the most Pledged delegates after June 3rd. No math needed.

You might be right. But some disagree. If electability becomes an issue the SD's can potentially point to the actual popular vote count to give a moral rationale to give the nomination to Hillary.

If I was an Obama supporter, I would give up on the inevitability train of the thought. Instead I would try to win the upcoming states.

Yes, I recall the "electability" argument being applied to Kerry in 2004. That worked out well.

If I was an Obama supporter, I would give up on the inevitability train of the thought.

Of course a Clinton supporter can understand such advice well, having already had to do so.

Actually I never towed the inevitability line. As for the proper metrics to consider, it seems to me that electability is as good as any if you don't have a clear winner - policy positions being equal.

It's "toe the line", BTW. The inevitability narrative was one that Clinton readily adopted pre-Super Tuesday. It's not Obama's narrative. The reason that it may seem to be present is because she can no longer win. It's like watching a basketball game in the fourth quarter where one team is down by 20 points. Sure, they could win.. but they don't. Sure, they can drain some impressive threes, maybe close the gap a little bit, but it won't change the outcome. I know that you have to maintain hope that she can somehow eek this out, but the point is that there's a huge difference between Clinton's once lauded inevitability (read: heir apparent) and Obama's near-lock on the nomination.

In what way is "electability" a metric? A metric is, by definition, quantifiable. "Electability" is a nebulous notion. Perhaps the apparent fact that you don't understand the meaning of the word is why you're having a hard time evaluating the score at this stage of the game. It's like saying that the team facing a 20 point deficit in the fourth has to show that they have "heart".

Nah, they should've showed that in the first half. If Clinton really was as "electable", as people are trying to claim, then why isn't she winning? Is it some undiscussed factor of your "metric" that electability doesn't actually have anything to do with the ability to win elections? That would be truly amusing.

Do you really honestly think electability is Clinton's trump card? Despite all of Hillary's past scandals? Despite the popularity ratings she has? She is the dream of the republican party. They apparently know "maths" and understand that helping Clinton hurts Obama.

You are arguing the SDs are like the population which is silly. The SDs are much closer to Obama's base. They read and have time to understand the arguements made. The SDs are far more likely to be Birkenstock latte sipping liberals.

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Yes, criticize my comment but please, gloss over the many insults directed towards Clinton supporters referencing their education levels. Yet another example of an Obama supporter with a double standard.

And again, people seem to be missing this crucial fact: superdelegates are free to switch as they please. Obama supporters continue to tout the math lately, but they do not realize that the supers would like to win the White House. If Obama finishes the season weak, his nomination will not be inevitable.

Compared to Clinton, Obama is a dream nominee. Both have scandals, but only Obama seems to weather the storm.

We've seen 1 Super change endorsements under spectacular pressure to do so. The idea that some great movement of Obama's SDs to Clinton is just laughable. Obama should end with 100+ pledged delegate lead, that means Hillary has to get at least 70% of the remaining SD to get the nomination. She has shown no ability to get anything close to 50% since Feb.

I'll also add that you are in a dream world if you think the DNC is going to trump 100+ pledged delegate lead with SDs. If you look at delegate trackers and actually read anything that most of the SDs have said it's that they will fall behind the candidate with the most pledged delegates. Since that's currently impossible for Hillary this race is over.

The only path to the nomination that Hillary has is for Obama to have a stroke. That said I actually don't mind this contest. Certainly it's taking some of the shine off Obama but that would have happened in the General anyway. More importantly this gives Obama a chance to fine tune his campaign and practice national campaigning. I'm also glad the Wright crap is getting over now and not in 4 months. By October most of America will be sick of hearing about Wright and most of the press will switch to other topics.

That's another one of my fave openings for a comment: I venture to guess I'm a hell of a lot smarter than the rest of you...

Do tell us your IQ - please. One of these comments is ever so incomplete without that.

The best part is that whatever follows such a preface is inevitably lacking in intellectual content.

Of course - that's why it is one of my faves.

I also like: Everyone has heard - which is always the opening to a big fat lie.

;)

That was my thought. There is now quicker way to shoot yourself in the foot than by claiming something you cannot prove before you make your point. Instead it makes your argument comic in appearance.

You know, sweetie, I have a doctoral degree and I still have to carry numbers, so, unh, chest thumping self importance aside, I'm not sure your "advanced degree" means you're the last word in electoral math.

I supported the Clintons roughly 9 years ago. Does that count?

I am a Hillary supporter. TPM is still predominately an Obama fan club but yes, Hillary support seems to be on the rise. It seems to come and go.

I do!

Wow. I'm impressed. Urbinato and Monica L both deciding to support Hillary. This isn't just a candidate -- this is a movement!

Kind of looks like a wedding.

I do like older men, and Yoda is about 900.

Remember, nothing can stand in the way of millions of voices calling for change.

Ahhhh! It's spreading. Dr. Genghis was right:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/is-hillary-behind-my-brain-dys.php

i will be a Clinton supporter if Obama vanishes into thin air and I am left with only her as the Democratic nominee. Does that count?

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Add me to the count as one of the millions of voices calling for change that Alex39 refers to. Only I'm one of the millions who are supporting Clinton.

I support Clinton though I realize that her supporters have mostly been driven underground by the hostility of the Obamaniacs on this site. Unfortunately, that feeds the Obamaniac sense of privilege that makes them think it is acceptable to demand she pull out of the race, who think it's okay to say I don't have a right to vote in this primary because I don't vote til the 20th. Who have made amountain out of their molehill in delegate lead and who put the worst of the Wall Street Editorial Board to shame in their haste to spread any rumor allegation and lie to smear Hillary.

While I still think Talking Points Memo is the most valuable news blog to read, my respect for Marshall has decreased with the level of discourse on his site - not from the comment posters for whom he cannot be held responsible, but for the invited bloggers like MJ Rosenberg who has clearly gone too far with his willingness to trawl any gutter and float any rumor and make any allegation in order to smear Clinton.

She's never ever done a thing, the poor lamb.

I feel ya honey.

I think there's a fair amount of hostility from the Clinton supporters too, Oregon Activist, but what they don't have is a majority. I am very understanding that many Clinton supporters must be very disappointed that "progressive" and "liberal" blog readers/commenters seem to go overwhelmingly to the Obama side, also that they don't find terribly much to vindicate their choice of candidate in the featured posts. Perhaps the thing to do is seek out more centrist pro-DLC politics venues, where I imagine you'd find yourselves in the majority and feel more comfortable. Politico is one choice, and while you cannot comment at Hinessight (the supposed "anti-Drudge") the news articles they link to are VERY anti-Obama and you will probably like them a lot.

Yes, well I wonder why the liberal and progressive readers support the less progressive candidate. Hillary's health plan is more progressive and Obama's reaction to her plan has reduced the likelihood of passing substantive reform. Hillary's tax plan is more progressive and her mortgage relief plan is better. Hillary's education plan is better. I could go on and on.

There are two issues on which Obama is more liberal: immigration and criminal justice. I prefer his position to hers on those.

As to the war: opposition to the war comes from liberals and conservatives as does support for the war. Yes, she was wrong to vote for authorization of force, but as far as withdrawal goes, there is not a huge difference between them.

I strongly preferred John Edwards and Clinton is my second choice, Obama my third - and my support for him is lukewarm thanks in part to his repeating the conservative talking point that liberals are hostile to religion. Also, when he talks about health care, I want to pound my head against the wall because he is making it more difficult for the next president - either him or Clinton - to succeed at passing health care reform.

But I think the base of my support for Clinton comes from my personal history of growing up poor - poor as in we didn't have running water, as in me being the first in my family to get a college education, as in hunting for deer so we could have meat -- not because we wanted to be "Annie Oakley." Class politics matter to me.

Poor and working class folks don't need condescending sympathy, they don't need intellectualizing marginalization. They need someone who can identify with them in a personal level. This doesn't have to come from a person's upbringing. Bobby and Teddy Kennedy grew up with immense class privilege and yet could cross class boundaries and "get it."

Perhaps Hillary gets her understanding and identification with the working poor from her relationship with Bill and Bill's mother. No matter where it comes from, Clinton "gets it" and Obama doesn't.

In political activism, you find lots of people who care about working class issues and poverty but don't really like working class people or the poor. It's common, but that comes from a sense of charity not of economic justice. Working class people don't need charity and sympathy nearly as much as they need economic justice.

Well, you see i am not a DLC Democrat. I don't get interested in politics once ever few years, but work on it everyday. I have worked for universal health care, progressive taxation and campaign finance reform for years. For me, it's not the personality so much as the policy.

I get that Clinton is not charismatic. I would rather listen to an Obama speech than a Clinton speech, but bottom line, Clinton is better than Obama on policy from the progressive viewpoint.


Why do you support Hillary? It's been so long that I have a hard time understanding the base Hillary supporter. Tell me why you support Hillary.

For some reason, I wrote my reply to you in the space for replying to the person above who exemplifies the Obamaniac (a term I don't apply to all Obama supporters) so well with her gracious invitation to me to leave so you all can have your echo chamber to yourselves.

Equally graciously and with stunning accuracy, she suggests sites that her unerring logic proffers as places I would feel more at home. That she is 100% wrong is an idea that will never cross her mind. She has her stereotype of the Clinton supporter and wants Clinton supporters to leave so she doesn't have to worry that she may learn something.

You don't strike me as an Obamaniac. So here's a question for you. Do some of your compatriots make your writhe with embarrassment?

Clinton/Bayh 2008 (first choice) or Clinton/Obama 2008 (kumbuya choice).

I think the Obama VP ship has sailed.

No way we're letting him on the ticket!

Let's see what happens over the next week. If either candidate sweeps, it would be hard for either to rebound. Most likely a split and the nomination process runs until at least until early July.

While Obama is not one of my top choices, the a shotgun wedding may be needed in order to win in November. I feel this is a re-run of Carter/Kennedy.
The nomination proces has caused serious damage to the DEM party and in all honesty, I'm not sure it can be repaired without some sort of unity ticket but you may be right; only time will tell.

You honestly think that the process will go a solid month beyond the last election?

Could you honestly tell me that you think Hillary's health plan is actually going to be as comprehensive as she says it'll be? Come on, the woman says anything, absolutely *anything* to get a vote. She's an old Washington player, she knows her bill for health care would get watered down to an almost unrecognizable shape even with a strong democratic majority in both houses, but she also knows that average people don't realize that. It's like how she panders to whatever she believes is the viewpoint that gathers the most votes (Gay marriage, illegal immigrant licenses, etc) even if she won't have much power in getting those things done, as some of them may be out of her authority. No, I'm not an Obamamaniac or a kool-aid drinking robot, but Hillary absolutely disgusts me as a human being and I think that any progressive/liberal/radical/freethinker should be concerned about her possible nomination.

Well, Dr. NotSanjay Gupta,

Considering the fact that whatever health care reform proposal is proffered will be weakened and shifted right, isn't it preferable to offer a stronger proposal rather than giving the conservatives their wish list before you start negotiating.

Obama's health plan doesn't leave much room for negotiation to retain any teeth in it. He's given away the bulk of his bargaining chips before sitting down to the table. That's one of the reason I don't support him.

Compromise is inevitable, but you start out asking for as much as dare, not as little as you're willing to accept.

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