H'mmm?.. I hope these folks have a designated driver after a steady stream of *Clinton Iced Teaz*.

Repeating talking points of your candidate (even on a site called Talking Points Memo) doesn't help your cause. It makes Hillary's positions seem canned.

Obama never lies, he just "mis-remembers", HRC should try that tactic Wright?

"You can fool some of the people all of the time."

--Abe Lincoln

tpmgary: Have you attended a Hillary rally or have watched on in its entirety. Most of the comments that I see in local media and on local forums after one of her appearances is that they're glad she's attacking Bush (and the Republicans), she was very specific about her plans and they were surprised that she hardly mentioned Obama.

Yes, in Q&As, she sometimes makes one of the points that you mention and many of them are somewhat true depending on your perspective, but in the actual rallies, she's clearly more focused on getting a Democrat into the White House.

That just proves the old adage that you can lie to all the fools all of the time.

"Yes, in Q&As, she sometimes makes one of the points that you mention and many of them are somewhat true depending on your perspective, but in the actual rallies, she's clearly more focused on getting a Democrat into the White House."

Are you kidding? Sometimes? She has made those claims continuously. They are the staple of her stump speech. And the ONLY Democratic Hillary Clinton is interested in getting elected to the White House is HERSELF!

Time for a reality check!

Obama Supporters apparently can't see it. They can't see why millions of people are so attracted to Hillary.

I'll give you a clue, from a guy who respects Obama even though I'm 100% for Hillary.

What draws people to Obama, I think, is really his personal narrative, what his presidency, if it should ever happen, would represent -- in and of itself, independently of his concrete plans and proposals. He makes white liberals feel good about themselves. He makes African Americans feel empowered. He promises something new, something different. And just by being who he is, he's almost automatically guaranteed to deliver that.

Hillary's appeal is different. If you listen to her talk even if you don't get all the details (I suspect most of her supporters don't. but I think the same is true for most voters who support any politician) you come away that here's a person who has spent her life thinking through public policy and fighting for the things she believes in. You get the sense that she knows her own mind, knows what she believes in and know who she stands for and who against. And you get the sense that if she's on your side of the issue, she will spend every waking breath trying to get things done. You get the sense that this isn't about the next line on her resume. It's about achieving concrete and specific things to help bring about real changes in real people's real lives. You get the sense that it isn't about symbols and poses who she is and what electing her will "say" about America or about us, but about real things that matter to real people.

Bottom line, I think the people who favor Hillary are probably see their vote as much less "symbolic" and "expressive" than people who vote for Obama.

Boonagain,

I didn't say that I was a Hillary supporter, and I didn't accuse anyone of lying. I said Obama "mis-remembers". As I recall, "mis-remember" is to tell a story several times with a slightly different twist each time. Tell the story the same way twice and you have "mis-spoke", which is called a lie in these posts.

As for Resco, Obama will fall into that by himself
,,,,, for good measure, just to be sure.

Woo Hoo , I think maybe, Abe Lincoln said "a fool and his money are soon parted".

People still go to Clinton rallies?

OK, let's go over the 10. I've seen her rallies on video and have been in the front row center of one of them.

1) Hillary and Barack are tied in this race so far.

SHE SAYS IT'S EXTREMELY CLOSE, NOT TIED, AND SHE'S RIGHT WHEN ONE CONSIDERS ALL THE FACTORS. IT'S NOT JUST THE MATH WHEN IT'S THIS CLOSE.

2) Obama is trying to disenfranchise millions of voters in FL and MI, and doesn't want the voice of the people to be heard.

NO, SHE SAYS OBAMA DOESN'T WANT THEIR VOICES TO BE HEARD BECAUSE IT WOULD WORK AGAINST HIM. THIS IS TRUE.

3) Hillary opposed the war before Obama did. Then he flip-flopped.

SORRY, I NEVER HEARD HER SAY THIS. WHAT SHE DOES SAY IS THAT SHE AND A VAST MAJORITY OF SENATORS VOTED, NOT FOR THE WAR, BUT TO GIVE BUSH AUTHORIZATION TO CONTINUE TO CHECK FOR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, AND IF FOUND, THE AUTHORIZATION TO DECLARE WAR IF NECESSARY. THIS IS A COMMON THING FOR OUR GOVERNMENT TO DO WHEN WE ARE THREATENED OR ATTACKED. THE FACT THAT BUSH ABUSED THE POWER BY LYING ABOUT THE WMD'S IS WHAT SHE IS ANGRY ABOUT, AND SINCE THEN, HAS VOTED EVERY TIME TO RESTRICT AND REDUCE HIS POWER.

4)Hillary has the only universal health care plan.

YES, AND THIS IS FACT. SHE DOES SAY THAT SHE IS THE ONLY CURRENT CANDIDATE THAT HAS IT, AND GIVES CREDIT TO EDWARDS FOR ALSO HAVING ONE.

5) Hillary has been against NAFTA from the start.

TRUE, AND PEOPLE WHO WERE INVOLVED IN IT CONFIRM THIS. SHE ADVISED BILL AGAINST IT, AND NEVER LIKED IT. BUT ONCE IT WAS LAW, SHE NEEDED TO SUPPORT IT SO THAT IT HAD A CHANCE TO WORK.

6)Hillary is the only one who bothered to put together an economic stimulus proposal that offers mortgage relief for people struggling to pay their bills.

NO, SHE SAYS SHE HAS THE BEST ECONOMIC PLAN, AND MOST ECONOMISTS AGREE WITH HER, ACCORDING TO MY RESEARCH.

7) Hillary is the only one ready to be C.I.C. because she and Bill were dealing with national security issues for 8 years.

TRUE. AND YES, SHE'S RIGHT.

8) Hillary has won all the big states. Obama hasn't won any big states, and if a democrat can't win those, the Republicans will win.

NOT EXACTLY WHAT SHE SAYS. SHE SAYS SHE HAS WON MOST OF THE BIG STATES, AND THE ONES DEMOCRATS NEED TO WIN IF THEY ARE TO WIN IN NOVEMBER. THIS, TOO, IS TRUE, AND THE SUPERS KNOW THIS. SO DON'T BE TOO SHOCKED IF THEY DON'T PICK YOUR GUY.

9) Hillary's the only one who can beat McCain in the general election.

NO, SHE SAYS SHE IS THE BEST CANDIDATE TO BEAT MCCAIN.

AND I BELIEVE SHE'S RIGHT. SHE HAS BEEN POLITCALLY AUTOPSIED FOR THE LAST 16 YEARS, AND THERE ARE NO SURPRISES OR ANY MAJOR NEW MEAT FOR THE REPUBLICANS TO USE AGAINST HER. OBAMA, ON THE OTHER HAND, IS FULL OF SURPRISES. REZKO, WRIGHT, LOSING HIS COOL OVER A PHOTOGRAPH; WHAT'S NEXT? THE SUPERS HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION ALSO.

Hillary has been an easy target for two reasons:
She has substance.
She makes the connection between what needs to be done and what is possible.
Obama made a great speech in 2006 -
He has been chosen by the corporate media to be the Democratic nominee.
To quote Rambo: "are they gonna let us win this time?"

And this is why many Clinton supporters are so rabidly anti-Obama, and so loyal to her, because she fills them full of lies like these and they believe it...so they think Obama is the goddamn boogeyman, a horribly mean person and a liar, who they don't want to support in the general. It is insanity. What has always bothered me about Clinton supporters, many of them at least, is that they only seem to get their information from Hillary's campaign, so they have become completely out of touch with reality. They have no idea how nasty their own candidate has been, and they have a completely distorted view of Obama. I don't understand it. I've always supported Obama, but I never check his website for facts, I don't get my information from his emails, I research everything myself, from many many sources. Yet I can't tell you how many times I've seen Hillary supporters post links from Hillary's facthub to "prove" a point.

I reckon turn-about is fair play.

Things Obama supporters KNOW before they go to an Obama rally.

1. Obama has already won so Hillary needs to get out.

2. When Hillary misspeaks, it is always an obvious lie.

3. When Obama misspeaks, it is simply a mistake.

4. To say that LBJ had anything to do with the civil rights movement is to diminish MLK and marks the speaker aa an obvious, ignorant racist. This includes HRC, Tom Brokaw, Juanita Abernathy, Andrew Young, Bill Moyers, and of course, MLK himself who attended the signing of civil rights legislation signed by Johnson as well as campaigning for him in the 1964 election.

5. Obama is the only candidate who can bridge the racial divide in this country. The only one!

6. Obama is the only one who can bridge the partisan divisions in this country. The only one.

7. Obama has superior moral and intellectual judgment to any one else in the country.

8. The Pastor Wright issue is forgotten and will have no bearing at all on the general election.

I'm sure I've forgotten a few things. Let me think--- Oh yeah.

9. Damn this Kool-Aid is deliciious.

I attended our Legislative District Caucus this weekend in Washington State, and I gotta say... the Hillary supporters are hitting the Kool-Aid hard. The Clinton campaign had even sent out one of their own from New York to pep their crowd up.

I read something funny... one of the people running for the Delegate position had the most asinine rationale for supporting Hillary for President. To summarize, he wrote that he wanted Hillary to be President because she is a woman and that we to get rid of the macho attitude of the presidency. Nothing about her policy positions or anything... nice!

In the end... Hillary lost another Delegate to Obama in my Congressional District.

Actually, I think what most people go away from her speaches thinking is: "Why does she do that weird pointing smiling thing where she stretches her eyes really wide all the time? It's like she's a kid recognizing people for the first time...Obama sure doesn't do that..."

As for the big state thing, I think Colbert did a great bit on this when he talked about SouthGeorgiaMissipAbama. Obama won all of those states, and if you put them together hey! They make a big state. Fabulous. The whole big state thing goes off the idea that it's not the number of votes that count, but the largeness of the geographic area of votes that counts.

And this whole idea that Obama can't win states in the general election because Clinton won them (sometimes just within 10 points)is ridiculous. Do you really think Cali is going to go red just because Hillary didn't get the nom? Obama's polls have improved there since then.