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Things You Don't See On TPM
Here's the kind of information we don't usually get at TPM.
This gem has worked it's way from Politico to Yahoo News.
The next debate may be a brawl. Tuzla. San Francisco. We are nothing if not entertaining.
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Comments (37)
Exactly Billy. But you'll be pounded here relatively soon. Most here just don't get it.
April 14, 2008 8:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Billy:
Where have you been? Didn't you get the memo about this race being over? Damn upstart.
April 14, 2008 8:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Too lazy to give us a summary? This is not information but assertion, or being generous, argument.
April 14, 2008 8:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's a short summary:
(1) Obama's bitterness statement gives ammo to his enemies
(2) Echo
(3) Echo
(4-12) Echo, echo, echo, echo…
I thought Billy was anti-echo chamber! ;)
April 14, 2008 9:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
You must not have read #12, Ben, which is not about Obama's enemies:
I find it interesting (but not surprising) that you would flat-out dismiss something Politico has to say when it's not about Hillary losing.
April 14, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obviously, I over-simplified in the interest of a punchline. That's what shouldn't surprise you, as I do enjoy my snark. (I also know that Billy can take a good ribbing at his expense.)
Also, I'm not dismissing it. They're right, but they didn't need twelve "distinct" statements in order to make that single statement. Alright, those two statements. My point, wrapped up in a joke, was that they seemed to think that harping on the same theme over and over again was a good way to make their point.
Finally, although admittedly not repetitive, I think #12 is just plain wrong. Obama might have weakened (temporarily) his strength as a top for the ticket, but he is still heads and shoulders above Clinton, IMO.
P.S.: For the record, I've never followed much of what Politico has to say in general. I'm guessing from your comment that you think it has more pro-Obama pieces than pro-Clinton, but I don't even know enough about Politico to have an opinion on that.
April 14, 2008 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, Ben. It's not you, it's me. I'm just tired of snark over substance anymore.
April 14, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Everything I see points to one simple, inescapable conclusion regarding Politico and their reporting: They have little interest in actual news, and seek only to inflame every headline as much as possible for ratings.
Politico is pure punditry, with very little analysis of any value. I've pretty much stopped reading any of their stuff simply because I see nothing worth reading - no insightful observations, no deep discussion of competing issues, nothing - just inflammation and provocation.
If you're not reading Politico, you're not missing much.
April 14, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Am I too lazy to let you click on a link and decide for yourself what you think of an article? Have you just revealed an esoteric fact about the echo chamber, Tom? 90 minutes outside the echo chamber for revealing one of it's most hidden secrets. You think for each other.
April 14, 2008 9:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
I read it, and that is why I was able to comment on its (lack of) value.
It's just not good form.
April 14, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Someone did post this yesterday.
Anyone hear about this latest "update?"
The recommended posts are the same as the recent, and posters recent posts, aren't
I hope they get it fixed soon. Have a good day everyone.
:)
April 14, 2008 8:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
That might have been true if his coments that started the bruhaha were the last on this issue. They were not. Sen Clinton went into full blown tonedeafness mode. She overplayed her hand and made herself look worse than he did. Sen Obama clarified his remarks and pointed out that bitterness is the correct response to the last eight years.
This is yet another example of how much better a politician Sen Obama is than Sen Clinton. He has been and will continue to beat her like a drum without breaking a sweat.
April 14, 2008 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought he looked good on CNN last night. Controlled environment. He got to go second. The problem they'll both have in the debate -- she with Tuzla and he with elitist comments about bitter value voters -- is that the other candidate is going to get to follow-up on anything they say. I expect to see her take him out. You won't see it, of course, and you'll come up with some other explanation for the results in PA.
Have you seen the NC poll with the huge number of undecideds Russert showed on MTP? Wierd. Anybody know what's going on down there?
April 14, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
I expect for you to be disapointed again if you are looking for her to take him out. On his worst day he is a better politicain than she will ever be. Every time she thinks she has found his weakness he builds more support off of it than she does. She over plays her hand and drives away as many as he attracts. I look for her to loose PA after her stupidity of this weekend.
April 14, 2008 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
OK, if you're looking for her to lose PA, I think you're going to be disappointed. I hope you're right, but I think it's highly unlikely.
That said, I agree with you that Obama is the judo master when it comes to letting Hillary lunge at him and then turning her attacks against her.
April 14, 2008 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Never underestimate her ability to trow away a victory that should have been hers. Look at the trend.
http://www.pollster.com/08-PA-Dem-Pres-Primary.php
The individual polls are all over the place. That indicates a volitle unpredictable situation. So we will have to wait for next Tuesday to be sure but I think her coments about the bitterness gaff are going to hurt her big time.
April 14, 2008 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, like 30-something % undecided? Seriously? I can't imagine that many people not having made a choice by now.
April 14, 2008 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is the best campaign ever! I have been in politics for 50 years, and I have never seen two candidates like this. I can't think of two who even come close.
April 14, 2008 10:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I said this here without even reading Politico. You have no idea how important this is in the Midwest. The Republicans certainly know it and will exploit it. During the 2006 midterms, Republicans ran ads in many states (including Indiana) warning voters to vote for Republicans in order to keep Nancy Pelosi from becoming Speaker and promoting her "San Francisco liberal" agenda (code for "gay agenda"). I don't know how effective the ads were in 2006, but expect to see many, many more in 2008.
In the meantime, we'll get to see how Pennsylvania and Indiana voters respond to Obama's words and attitudes soon enough.
April 14, 2008 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Check this Obama loyalist out for a perfect example of elite thinking vis a vis why people volunteer to serve in the military.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/my-letter-to-josh.php
What I'm beginning to realize is that people like this really don't get America. Everybody but them is a dupe.
April 14, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are just intentioanaly missreading that post. I am a veteran and think the poster made some turethfull statements about some people's motivations for joining without insulting any one. You just do not get that people are not going for the false outrage in the same numbers that they have in past cycles.
April 14, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Another example from an Obama Supporter. If that is the thought process of the Obama campaign and supporters you can pretty much kiss the GE goodbye.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/my-friends-les-carabiniers.php
April 14, 2008 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm really not, Larry. Personally, I was drafted. But after I got drafted, I went for the action. My kid joined the Marines because of the tradition. He was disappointed he never got to fire his rifle in Desert Storm. Jim Webb's position is that kids from those rural areas join up out of tradition and patriotism. It has been a tenet of faith in his political career. My point is that we are elitists who can't help thinking and talking like elitists. Obama is one of us. We all need to keep our mouths shut on the subject of rural America if we want to win the election. Believe me. If there is one thing the Clintons know, it is how to talk to rural America. If we want their vote, we need to let Hillary talk for us.
April 14, 2008 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Couldn't have said that better Billy. Rural kids especially southern kids go to join the army for very much those reasons. God, Country, Duty. To downgrade what that means to millions of Americans is unforgivable.
April 14, 2008 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Billy Glad said:
Over the weekend, Bill Clinton countered bitter elitism with pride in America:
Genius.
Now, Obama fans will insist that's exactly what Obama says. But I would argue that Obama only says these things to his own demographic. He can't speak outside his demographic.
April 14, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is why Obama is winning, because the Clintons are so much beter at conecting with voters. Who is the biggest loser, the loser or the one who lost to the loser?
April 14, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Politico is becoming a GOP hack. I formally want to announce that I will sever their link from my homepage. I also wish to announce that I am considering adding CNN (especially the Lou Dobbs show, Wolf is getting close)to my tabloid reporting list that currently includes Fox News and Rush Limbaugh.
April 14, 2008 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why would you watch Lou Dobbs anyway?
April 14, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know what, Bussta? I think Lou Dobbs is entertaining sometimes, too. I like the fact that he doesn't let everything his "expert" guests say go unchallenged.
April 14, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I like Lou Dobbs because he's clearly rooting for Hillary.
I think that's funny, because it's out of character.
And I find it unexpectedly endearing. Because it's out of character.
He must really like her.
Wolfie too.
April 14, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama will win in NC. We love him here. He also has been endorsed by both Dem. candidates for governor, Beverly Perdue and Richard Moore.
April 14, 2008 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, if he can't win NC he's finished. Right? Listen. Did you ever hear a Buster Brown radio commercial?
April 14, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm Buster Brown, I live in a shoe?
April 14, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Billy , I have to give you credit, you got the Bussta right. But speaking of Dobbs, do most people really talk with their teeth clenched most of the time?
April 14, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Things we don't see from Billy Glad.
April 14, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem with disqualifying Obama at this point is, what's the alternative?
Hillary is one of the least popular politicians in the country. Her negatives are around 50% before the general campaign even starts. McCain's POSITIVES are around 67%.
As Dems look to take out Obama at the knees, they have to really think about the alternatives. A woman who at least half the country really dislikes. Plus, she'll leave African-Americans, young people, and independents in the dust.
Can she destroy McCain like she's trying to destroy Obama? Maybe, but then what are the next four years going to look like? If HRC is President, the GOP will likely take Congress back in 2010. A hundred Gingriches are going to spring from the woodwork.
April 14, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Having grown up as a fifth-generation midwesterner and having lived in the Bay Area for the last 20-odd years, I can tell you that the oddest people in California are far and away from somewhere else. And the midwest is definitely one of those "somewhere else"'s.
April 14, 2008 4:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
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