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The Troll Whisperer
Let me caution you right off not to try these techniques yourself unless you have the time and energy to raise a troll. If you're not willing to invest in the training of a troll, seek the help of a professional troll trainer.
As we all know, the conventional wisdom teaches that trolls crave attention and that the right way to handle them is to ignore them. I disagree.
I think operant conditioning -- ignoring bad behavior, but rewarding good behavior -- is a much more promising approach.
While I generally ignore trolls, especially the little personal trolls one picks up at a site like TPM, I do keep my eye open for any chance to reward appropriate behavior by acknowledging their comments. For example, it is conceivable -- although I admit it's unlikely -- that a troll may post a comment that is actually on topic and without personal attacks or rude language. In that case, I make it a practice to respond in kind. The blogger's equivalent of tossing them a bisquit.
And remember this maxim if you are ever tempted to answer an inappropriate comment from a troll.
Man, kick a troll twice and you have a relationship.



Comments (266)
Good advice, possibly. There's one troll in particular (a "pro-Obama" troll who I won't name but that I've suspected is just a Republican trying to stir up animosity) who has been cleaning up its act a little bit.
My concern is that it's just an act, and that once people get used to responding to it, it'll go back to its old ways.
April 28, 2008 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
I prefer to ridicule trolls. It's more fun.
April 28, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you are going to ridicule them, do it down thread a little. The trolls won't be smart enough to figure out you're ridiculing them, but the rest of us will get it.
April 28, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
You seem well-versed on trolls. Takes one to know one, huh?
April 28, 2008 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Billy's no troll. He likes to say provocative things (sometimes irrespective of whether he believes them, IMO), but he's not a troll. He's a contrarian, an arguer, but not a troll. If you tell him the sky's blue, he'll look for evidence to dispute that, but he's usually reasonably fair (no, not always) about such things considering his biases.
(Just for the record, I consider myself to also be a bit of a contrarian and arguer, although not to the same degree as Billy.)
April 28, 2008 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
You ridicule everyone, Genghis.
April 28, 2008 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's not true. I have never ridiculed flyonthewall or the zaftig redhead. OK, maybe slight jabs. But trolls are my favorite. Also that baby. You're kind of fun too when you're angry.
I never get trolled anymore. :^( Goatlife sometimes, but he's too good a sport. I think they're afraid of me. It's gotten so quiet that I've had to go looking for them.
Maybe I should put an ad on craigslist. SWM seeks SGT for virtual S&M.
April 28, 2008 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're bragging you haven't ridiculed two people out of thousands of TPM commenters?
You and me, we're like neighbors who share a side lawn with no fence.
April 28, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I've been meaning to talk to you about what your dog has been leaving in my threads.
April 28, 2008 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right. I found you passed out on my front steps after your little drunken Obama rave the other night, so I think you owe me.
Besides, how do you know it's not clearthinker's dog? He lives on the other side of me. And he's the one who's into composting.
April 28, 2008 11:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't own a dog, gasket, only a trampoline.
Next time I throw a party, I'll be sure to invite you.
April 29, 2008 12:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Cool. Trampoline party.
I liked your Mr. Kool Aid logo. More entertaining and less pretentious.
April 29, 2008 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for your comment. I toyed with the idea of changing his color according to my mood (especially when your pic put me in a 70's frame of mind). However, several people let me know that they thought the avatar made my posts too flip.
Maybe I should animate a gif with the two morphing back and forth.
YOUR picture on the other hand is presumably more recent than the old one -- but the clothes same older than the original!
April 29, 2008 1:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
A trampoline. I confess I've often wondered what that steady, rhythmic noise was coming from your place. I thought it was something else.
Sure, I'd love to jump the trampoline sometime.
April 29, 2008 1:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
You were right the first time, gasket.
April 29, 2008 1:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Brilliant. ;-)
April 29, 2008 9:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, you guys have a lot in common with Mila.
When are you going to start comparing dick sizes?
April 29, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
It'd probably be like comparing apples and oranges.
April 29, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or bananas.
April 29, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Holds up little finger.
Waves it around, comically.
April 29, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm recommending just for the subject line - brilliant.
Other than ignoring a troll, I think the best weapon a TPM jedi knight can use against the vicious sith troll is an old jedi trick: snarkiness.
April 28, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Billy's one eggroll short of a combination special.
April 28, 2008 10:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
great, just great... now I'm hungry for egg rolls.
April 28, 2008 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
It seems to me that there are many many people here that have control issues. Which, considering that its a "Progressive" site, is troubling and interesting at the same time.
April 28, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think almost everyone has control issues of some kind. Either they're too likely to control others or they're too easily controlled. It's very rare that you find balance, if ever. (I don't believe I've found the proper balance myself.)
April 28, 2008 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
But, you'd admit that it isn't a very Progressive characteristic to be Controlling.
April 28, 2008 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, but it is a human characteristic, and I'd argue that most progressives are human. (I'm still quite a bit away from my AIs being intelligent enough to be progressive. In fact, I'm afraid if I released them right now, they'd probably vote for Bush.)
April 28, 2008 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Off topic. (As if there is one.) Do you read William Gibson?
April 28, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, although he's been recommended to me before. I really should read Neuromancer one of these days.
April 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Neuromancer, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive make a trilogy. I mention him because his AIs have well-developed aesthetic senses. I did a split CS/Communications grad program and worked on software that preferred films with high entropy. Entropy good/structure bad. Ford, Welles, Fellini all had numbers. Was trying to get the program to like Westerns better than film noir when I left school for other opportunities. Never got back to it.
April 28, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Have a feeling your not as far away with your AI's as you let on
April 28, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can contrarians control trolls?
April 28, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are no bad trolls, only weak bloggers. Bloggers have to lead in a way that makes trolls feel secure in following. Remember. Trolls can detect the kinds of emotions they feed on. Try to keep emotion out of your comments. And limit your thoughts to one simple thought per post.
Also, be sure to lock the cat out of the room when you are commenting if there are trolls at the site. My cat got one the other day and it wasn't pretty.
April 28, 2008 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did you let your cat eat what it killed? It'd be a shame to waste it. On the other hand, I suppose it could cause gastrointestinal distress.
April 28, 2008 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
She jumped out the window with it. I found it on the front porch the next morning. She had chewed it until it looked like a little black turd lying next to a pile of purple and black guts.
April 28, 2008 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
How's your cat? Did you take it to the vet? The thing might've had rabies, after all.
April 28, 2008 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
A pure ass.
April 28, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
The most dangerous kind of troll is the expert Grackler. They are adept at draining positive energy from a post by crapping on it until other commenters get disgusted and leave the thread.
Under no circumstances should you attempt to engage a Grackle on your own unless you have had years of experience dealing with that type of troll behavior.
If you encounter a Grackle in a positive Clinton thread, wait for me, readytoblowagasket, Desidero or some other known Clinton supporter.
If a Grackle is draining energy from a pro-Obama post, wait for Ben, Ghenghis, Urbinato, Articleman, or another known Obama supporter.
Be careful! The Grackle's attack is psychological and it is very powerful.
April 28, 2008 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
You should write an encyclopedia of trolls. Or at least a top ten list of types of trolls to be found at TPM (their behaviors, remedies, who is best suited to engage the trolls, etc).
April 28, 2008 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seconded! So far, Billy's taught us about "Personal Trolls" and "Grackles" -- I can't wait to learn what other species exist in the wild....
April 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am honored to be one of Billy's troll debunkers.
But then there is the paradox of if one of Billy's troll debunkers exhibits troll behaviors. Kind of like the kind people in 28 Days Later after the infected blood splashes on them.
What then? (Sigh.)
April 28, 2008 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
The cure is too horrible to describe here.
April 28, 2008 7:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time to add "troll debunker" to your resume.
April 28, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
But you're not always around! Sometimes I panic and blurt the first thing that comes to mind!
Hey, wait a minute: what positive Clinton threads?
April 28, 2008 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Louisville (no offense intended, Louisville) is an excellent example of what Billy Glad is saying here. When s/he first came online here at TPM, I had s/him pegged as a troll and s/his first posts seemed irrational and offensive. But since then, s/he's gradually transformed into a contributing member of the TPM blogosphere. I was shocked the first time s/he said something that wasn't just an insult/dis on another comment, but I did what Billy Glad advises and responded positively. And just look at Loiusville today!
April 28, 2008 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shows what you know Allsburg. If you would just ask Bionic he will tell you I am a trollish, racist, snarkish, ignoramous.
And it isn't that I've transformed. You've transformed to me. See its all a grand plan....:)
BTW did anyone see the pictures of Jada Pinkett Smith I posted friday. I mean really....what a woman!
April 28, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, well, Bionic's stock has been descending.
And no, I didn't look at the pictures you posted. Although I no longer think that you're a troll, I still wouldn't put it past you to try to rick roll me like Ben and Genghis.
April 28, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing about Louisville. I'm glad to see that I had underestimated him/her.
April 28, 2008 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
HA! you just wait. Though I am concerned. I am starting to argue with Billy. I think he might have had a gulp or two of the kool-aid.
April 28, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Heh, it's not as though I think you'll be jumping on the Obama bandwagon. But I like (many of) your posts. You're funny, especially to those (like me) who have a sixth-grade sense of humor ...
April 29, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
I find no humor in any of this!
April 29, 2008 10:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Billy has been secretly quaffing it, you know that Kool-Aid must be some powerful mind-altering stuff. Come on, you know you're curious ... just a lil sip can't hurt, right?
April 30, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
misunderestimated
April 28, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's like saying Pan Am's stock has been descending.
April 28, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
G you should have went for the whole 70's look in the picture. The ladies would have been crawling over you worse than normal. Looks like your ready for the Godfather role. You can play the modern day Michael?
April 28, 2008 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I only have one lady after me at TPM. No reaction from her yet as far as I know. But some troll just called the new photo "douchy".
April 28, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a good effort, Genghis, but if you're going for the full-on '70s look, Genghis, you'll need to abandon modesty, lose the white T-shirt, and show some chest hair. Preferably with a large gold medallion.
April 29, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I tried that with Matthew Weaver, but he got worse.
April 28, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
But see, the problem is that Matthew Weaver's not a troll. He's worse: he's angry, bitter and sincere.
April 28, 2008 6:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
And what's worse, he appears to have reproduced.
April 28, 2008 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think some of the trolls are angry, bitter, and sincere.
But it would be nice if Matthew Weaver would be hectored by everyone to write something positive about Hillary Clinton. I mean, I know voting is a binary function and some negative is fine, but he has no positive in him ever.
So if everyone said that to him when he appeared, clutching Allsburg in each arm, it would be good.
April 28, 2008 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Binary function? I don't even know what that means..
April 28, 2008 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, technically a binary function is a function that maps from R²→R, but I believe what he means in this context is that wanting X to win implies wanting (not X) to lose.
April 28, 2008 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I miss Matthew's old avatar. I liked the idea that his brain was being eaten by a badger.
April 29, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here is an example of responding to a troll attack in a downstream comment.
Many trolls are not capable of insults more sophisticated than comments like takes one to know one. Everyone ignores trolls of this caliber. Some, however, are capable of using expressions like ass that have more than one possible meaning. They are also capable of metaphor and simile, although there is no known example of a troll actually using metonyms.
April 28, 2008 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another your another one. :)
April 28, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I have an exception. My new favorite troll is RenStimpy. The one with the fat David statue. Definitely an anti-Obama troll. Nothing but insults. But always witty and often hilarious. And its posts have a consistent, almost poetic, format:
SARCASTIC TITLE
Derogatory body
Sincerely,
Republican bad guy, e.g. Jerry Falwell
VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE
NOT YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE
I wonder if it will make an appearance.
April 28, 2008 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
It posted today about the gun that killed Vince Foster and Colombian coke for Hillary, so I think it's a Republican troll, or maybe even beyond politics, is simply an asshole.
April 28, 2008 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, no, that was snark. It's a snarking troll. That was a sarcastic response to a Peter Paul comment in which it implied that the commenter was buying into Republican conspiracy theories.
Here's the post you were referring too:
Here's another clever insult targeted at a commenter who complained about its nude avatar.
But it's definitely anti-Obama. It only goes after Obama supporters.
April 28, 2008 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it comes here, we'll use it for a class project.
April 28, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you see the one that made a brief hit-and-run downthread to insult my pic? Makes me happy that I didn't take your advice and switch to an avatar.
April 28, 2008 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
don't change the pic dude
change the shirt
April 28, 2008 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. And you might consider seeing a dermatologist.
April 28, 2008 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't listen to 'em, G. That shirt is boss.
April 29, 2008 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good to see you back, DF. I had a whole thread just waiting for a pertinent comment from you...!
April 29, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry I missed it. Thermodynamics and petrodollars. Hopefully I'll be around for the next one.
April 29, 2008 3:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
As a vetran troll of the most brutal depths of the intrawebs, I must say that while what Billy is saying is for the most part true, the most dangerous and skilled of trolls are the ones that can formulate a seemingly perfect response made up of what appears to be hard evidence (Quotes, screencaps, article clips, etc...) and built so that while they know what they write can be countered and proved untrue, it requires too much effort to do so and the average readers just give up. Though occasionally someone will call out the troll on his elaborate post, it will be isolated and not a clear victory for rationality.
April 28, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are obviously a veteran troll whisperer. I encountered one like that once. It damn near killed me.
April 28, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are a few I can think of that are just like that, right here.
:)
April 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
omg, one of those got me twice! I was up till 5 am writing well-researched comment briefs for 4 consecutive nights. I just figured it out only recently. Duh! The damage to my self-esteem is . . . let's just say I can relate to the Democratic Party. The word riven comes to mind.
April 28, 2008 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
In a scene out of Alfred Hitchcock's movie "The Birds," grackles, with their noise and defecation, are becoming a problem in Lubbock.
Lubbock Department of Animal Services Manager Fred Sanderson said the black birds migrate and become a nuisance, not only to Lubbock, but also to other major Texas cities.
"Homeowners can do lots of things (to help alleviate the problem)," he said. "Motion activated lawn sprinklers, fake birds of prey (can be used)."
Bird traps can be used, but the grackles will just come back, Sanderson said. But when the birds are gone, removing grackles' nesting areas can be helpful.
Businesses and municipal governments, have more of a dilemma eradicating the birds., Sanderson said.
"It's not legal to kill them; migratory birds are protected," he said. "You have to take each area site-specifically."
Some places use shotgun blasts, Sanderson said, but then the grackles just move to another area.
"We can disrupt their feeding patterns," he said. "Food, water, shelter - you have to disrupt one of those."
According to birds.cornell.edu, grackles eat insects, worms and small vertebrates like tadpoles, fish and lizards and plants and garbage.
On the other hand, the Aplomado Falcon, the red-tailed hawk and the burrowing owl are grackle predators, according to the Web site.
Leasing Consultant for The Heritage Apartments Missi Wilson said the birds have been a problem in the past.
"The problem isn't as bad as it was last year," she said. "It's always been a small problem, but it has never been complained about (by residents)."
The grackles do not cause much trouble, Wilson said, so no action has been taken to address the issue.
"They do poop all over everything, and they're loud and screechy," she said. "I don't like grackles."
To do something about the grackles, Wilson said, someone's to filing a complaint about the birds is necessary.
"We have other people that are more worried about bees, leaky toilets," she said. "(The birds) come a certain time each year. I think the problem was more a couple years back."
Kamesha Boldon, a Texas Tech student in the Health Sciences Center School of Nursing and resident at the Heritage Apartments, said grackles are annoying.
"They wake me up in the morning," she said. "That's all I hear is those birds."
Since trees are near almost every parking spot, Boldon said, birds frequently cover her car in feces, which is a major health concern, she said.
"One time it was like black poop on my car," she said. "You don't want to touch that stuff. I have to pay to get my car washed. It's costing me money."
A possible solution, Boldon said, would be to put some birdhouses on the perimeter of the parking lot.
Boldon said she has never told management about the problem because she did not believe anything could be done to solve the bird dilemma.
"I moved here in October, and pretty much it has been consistent until now, as far as them cackling every morning before sunrise," she said.
April 28, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
And I commend Billy for mentioning trolls in his title. Mentioning trolls = two thumbs way up!
(Mentioning trolls is the sixth of my ten tips for writing a successful TPM post.) See http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/ten-tips-on-how-to-write-a-suc.php#comments
Indeed, the Baby abused this hallowed principle by writing posts mentioning trolls every day until the board finally stopped recommending, because he conjoined troll-reference with something about William Henry Harrison, or maybe Nikolai Tesla, I forget.
April 28, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't blame me if I was trying to use the 10 principles to enlighten and educate the TPM masses. Or that it all ended in a horrible scientific experiment gone awry involving that transmutation device from The Fly.
April 28, 2008 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of The Fly, on a thread the other day, someone asked, "What has Bill Clinton become?"
And I posted the one word comment,
"Brundlefly."
Boy that was fun to type again.
April 28, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the late '80s there was a graffiti artist in Seattle called "the fly" who went around painting flies and signing them "the fly."
Then a rival graffiti artist started going around to all of the fly drawings and added the words: "eats shit."
(Unless the fly itself was doing it.)
April 28, 2008 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Only a habitue of message boards would even think that a graffiti artist would self-critically deface their art in an alternative persona.
I wonder how many people on this site have a second persona.
April 28, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder how many don't.
April 28, 2008 10:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm starting a "TPM Needs Better Trolls" competition and could use everyone's input so that we can improve the quality of trolling here at TPM:
http://tinyurl.com/657d4d
It's time for a CHANGE!!!
April 28, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm...a troll competition? That's a horrible idea. It'll never work.
April 28, 2008 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I kicked ass. I wuz robbed.
April 28, 2008 9:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
What an absurd notion
April 28, 2008 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
nice job looking even douchier in your new profile pic! love the collar.
April 28, 2008 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
You noticed! I'm touched.
April 28, 2008 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is that a typo, Genghis? Shouldn't it be:
I'm douched?
April 29, 2008 12:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know how this even makes sense, but you look shorter in this photo than in the other.
April 28, 2008 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you are, what, about 16 inches?
April 28, 2008 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm 27 inches, you bastard. And I'll let you know, that's the 90th Percentile for my age.
April 28, 2008 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think we have a new category to go with trolls. Ghengis and Allsburg are hobbits.
April 28, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
The vicious "hobbit" smear. As if this one hasn't made the rounds on the right wing blogs. Next you'll be referring to me by my middle name, "Bilbo". And by the way I have no reason to think that Allsburg is anything other than a fat 16 inch baby.
April 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Better than being a dwarf, or an orc.
April 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
But being a Ringwraith is pretty cool. Though don't get a lot of dates.
April 28, 2008 10:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I meant it as a complement. I go by Bilbo as well. We may whine a bit (especially Frodo) but, who else could we trust to carry the ring.
April 28, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink