Dude - how much time have you spent on blogs? I'm so damn tired of the whining from people who haven't been around, I guess, long enough to understand comments boards dynamics, but there is not one blog where the same dynamic doesn't prevail.

So if you don't like it - get offline - it really honestly is either/or.

And as Phoebe points out - this ain't real life people!!!!

Can you not tell the difference? This is the internet. No one even knows for sure who they are talking to

So either ride it for what it is, or put up your own blog and see if people hang around for polite discussions of mutual subjects - and how long it takes before you die of boredom.

*sigh* I can only assume that the environment is what drives the thing - because it's the just the same everywhere...

HusseinTenaX-

Rest assured that I can and will continue to participate and take the heat that goes along with it. I just find it despicable when people forego reason and degenerate into a repetition of expletives, ramblings, and exclamation marks.

Gotalife -

My sentiments exactly. It's pathetic to see, both on the blogs and in the MSM, the double standard that people are employing.

I guess my point is, when you post (and in real life) try to think about what underlies the other person's opinion. If you're one-sided and determined of your superiority, you're not going to convince anyone and will only further the divide that exists both within the Democratic party and in the nation.

I appreciae the heads up, if it's the case. Troll or not, he makes a point that I whole-heartedly agree with.

Other sites are worse but the misogyny and Clinton hate are rampant and indeed sad to see at TPM and TPM Cafe. It was more than ironic to see all the gotcha hate repeated here over-and-over towards Clinton and then all the shock-and-awe when the ABC "debate" used this same kind of material on Obama. the blogosphere had already put its stamp of approval on the tactics. ABC's mistake was in not understanding that you can only do that to Clinton and get away with it.

There are strictly enforced blogosphere Obama rules against fellow dems who ask about Rezko, or Nadhmi Auchi or Obama's weaknesses in any number of other arenas. It is frightening because they want Hillary to get out before anyone else asks too many questions about Obama's past. And they have beat her up so badly that there is nowhere to go, even if these stories erupt in a bad way for Obama in the GE, or even after if he were to win the WH, the consequences for democrats and the success of our political agenda is huge.

It might not just be sad it may well be tragic.

I agree that things have gotten way too polarized and ugly and that it's a depressing thing to witness.
You are courageous to admit to feeling sad about it, to allow yourself to be human rather than macho. I'm all for that.
I have to say, though, as an Obama supporter, that I truly believe that your candidate, Hillary Clinton, has to take responsibility for how ugly things have become. Why? Because even before the Ohio and Texas primaries it became clear that she could not win by any reasonable means. Hence, the kitchen sink strategy and all that it entails. Right now, hers is a campaign devoted taking him down so that she can prevail. This occasions a lot of really ugly campaigning that has a trickle down effect that tends to poison the citizenry at large. You're reading the effect of that poisoning on the web.
Now we're all either angry or depressed. Personally, I'm increasingly dispirited by the fact that she's taking down a candidate who really does stand for a different kind of politics than the kind that's creating so much ugliness.

This is a good post.

So much vitriol and hatefulness has been lobbed at Clinton on this site. The ration of inane, vitriolic and childish posts has to run 10 to 1 or worse Obamaites to Clintonites.

Ben Hocking and the other reasonable Obama supporters are helping their candidate. You'll need us Clinton supporters in the fall. The sycophantic, hero worshiping Hillary-haters are doing their candidate no good. Honestly, they've come close (not too close though) to scaring me off Obama, and I'm a long time, hardcore progressive.

Hillary has my vote if she wins the primary battle without getting any dirtier. But when she and her people started saying that she OR McCain were better than Obama (3am, etc), THAT'S when she started really earning all the vitriol. That she wants to win badly enough to do whatever it takes earns her vitriol. And I'll leave it at that to avoid just becoming a rant because I can sure keep dumping. Bottom line, Hillary's first for Hillary, THEN for us -- if there's time.

How about a hanky and some hot cocoa?

"reasonable Clinton supporter" is somewhat of an oxymoron, no?

I guess the comment from shrivtl1 is a good case in point.

I'm a passionate Obama supporter and a newbie to the comment section of this site but I have to say that I agree completely with what brand182 posted. It's true that this incivility is present in just about every political comment or message board out there but is this something we're just going to accept and live with? Kinda like the internet adopting a NYC street attitude. No thanks. (And that was just a big insult to the folks on NYC streets. Sorry. I know the internet is much worse.)

I stumbled on an interesting method at Thom Hartmann's message boards where a user can give another user a "karma" vote - either positive or negative. (I imagine everyone is allowed only one vote against one particular user.) Anyway, a consistently negative poster would accumulate a negative karma rating that shows on each post. The more respectful posters would build up a positive karma rating. It's a good way to know the reputation of the various posters and thus be able to regard their comments accordingly. Something to think about.

But many thanks for the post.

Egads, my comment was meant to go way up-thread. I will read the TPM users manual, I promise!

Why, I'm an old-timer, remember the blog -- don't think they were even called blogs back then -- skirmishes of the '00 recount. Took a bullet in my thigh. It's still there.

Then the "March to War" war of '02. You want to see mean-spirited comments? Try wading into a fight with neocons with reasoned debate, how the evidence for WMDs was just not there, how Americans shouldn't invade other countries that haven't attacked us or allies. I got a bullet in my other thigh from that one.

The fight we got here is nothing. Wait until we got our nominee and the Republicans invade the site.

And one last thing - look, you doofuses - since when was political conversation polite? The reason you aren't supposed to bring up religion and politics is because it leads to bar fights.

And sometimes those are a lot of fun.

Engaging in a discussion that matters to those involved is difficult under the best of circumstances and it takes a good deal of effort. For example, simply ensuring that a point is understood as meant can be difficult and, for example, it is very easy to hear disagreement as having an element of personal attack. This gets more difficult in this kind of medium.

I do not think you can expect the situation in these particular types of venues to change. Some people like them. To each his own.

If you want a different kind of discussion, look for or start an Internet group where membership is restricted. (That does not mean excessively controlled. It just means that there is a way to exclude folks who show up for some other reason than the stated focus of the group.)

Even then, there is an art to getting it to work but much of it has to do with personally avoiding exactly the type of behavior that is saddening. However, it can work out surprising well but just like any other endeavor, there will be ups and downs. I don't know if anyone has written much about this type of skill. However, it is the same skill required to have a real conversation with other human beings. How many people have you met who were exceptionally good at that?

I think all you can expect from blogs like this is what you are seeing. Like many things that are what they are, there is no reason to categorize it as good or bad. Perhaps it pretends to be something more than it is but that is just part of what it is.