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On Supporters (Language wanrning)
(I am going to start with a language warning, I may use phrases and words that may mean you want to avoid reading this to your children)
Ok, so I am tired of all the bashing of candidates based on the rantings of there supporters. I am also tired of everyone accusing one side of something they are guilty of as well.
I can't believe I have to post this explanation because I have been dealing with it for well on the last ten years now. People are nasty on the internet.
This has always been true even when applied to something as vastly unimportant as a video game forum. Now psychologically this has to do with non human contact, no reprocusions etc etc. The internet actually DRAWS these people in. People who are to shy or to weak to be this way in person release it all on the internet.
They are the vocal minority people.
They are a bunch of ass holes (male and female) who get off on insulting people online. (including your presidential choice)
Both sides have people like this. Obama may at times seem to have more of these people but this is mainly because of the fact that he has run a very tech savvy campaign, thus drawing in more of these internet trolls.
I have been personally insulted by Clinton supporters many many times online. Only a very very few times in person. In fact at the second round of WA caucuses yesterday I mingled freely having very intelligent conversations with people regardless of there preference.
I have been accused of never leaving my parents basement which is entirely untrue.
I have been accused of being stupid and naive. Which is not true.
I have been accused of being sexist not because of anything I said, but because of who I support. Which is not true.
I have been accused of all these things and more, and in much more hateful wordings the I have given here.
These nasty things get spewed from both sides. I hate seeing hateful stuff towards Clinton and her supporters and I hate seeing this stuff about Obama and his supporters.
My main concern is that I have seen people on here that can normally be counted as reasonable contributers doing the same. I will admit I have fucked up myself and responded in anger because I have been insulted. However I looked at what I had done and wished I could take it back because it is not who I am to respond to these people in kind. It hypocrisy to do so.
I have been intending to write this post for a while, but today I was inspired to do so because of a comment I have seen posted on multiple threads. I will not say who posted it, and it isn't the nasiest thing I have seen. however the tinge of nastiness to it coupled with an ugly hypocrisy made me want to post.
I am going to respond to this comment, it is from a Clinton supporter. You may call me biased and truth be told I am, but so are you. It is ok to be biased as long as we can still listen to others and put our biases aside. Presidential campaigns are all about people being biased and chosing sides.
Comment below
"well, at least one good thing about Clinton, her supporters don't come
in their pants when they see her on youtube. It's extremely distasteful
to observe the smug and smarmy attitude of Obama's folk, even more
distasteful than the Rev Wright's dashiki. I assure you, when pretty
boy screws up foreign policy and the economy, you won't be coming in
your collective pants anymore, you'll be shitting bricks : )"
This comment disgusts me. Now she may be right that there is a group of Obama supporters who may be over excited about Obama. There is a group out there that feels he is more then he is. However, we are not all this way. Many of us do get excited but realize he is just a politician. we still prefer Obama.
What I find really insulting coming from a woman who has probably dealt with a lot of sexism is the comment that we come in our pants.
How would you all feel if I made a post stating that Clinton supporters get all wet when they see her on You tube? You would be pretty fucking pissed right? You would be pissed and you would have the right to be.
This post suggests that we support Obama because he has a dick and so do we. I have no doubt there is a group out there that does. I am not happy about that group. I was also not happy when her rep got up during our caucus yesterday and said she supports Clinton not because of her policies or qualifications but because she had a vagina.
I was excited to vote for the first female president. I didn't expect someone to come along who I thought would make a better president. This will be historical either way, and I am excited to vote for either of them. A white woman or a black man. I will be truly excited about whoever it is for it's historical importance. However I will not make my decision based on who I feel is more historical.
I commend both candidates for having the bravery to do what they are doing, I know they are probably both getting death threats as we argue.
Support who you support, but lets not delve to the level of these trolls in order to do it.










Comments (18)
interesting that rev. wright's dashiki being described as "distasteful" doesn't also jump out at you.
see, i agree with your premise, that folks hide behind the anonymity and ease of the internet, and that folks are often socially isolated out in the real world. however, it is still interesting that hate speech is the form that this expressive freedom takes-- i could see being rude, or callous, or even mean, but when you read through comments on youtube or many other popular sites, you get straight up nazi propaganda. violent misogyny, violent racism, violent homophobia. i think this reveals somethign deeper about the quality of our education system, the defacto segregation many people still live in, and the vulnerability people feel despite living in the "greatest country in the world."
peace
gkp
April 6, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
No I was offended by the Dashiki comment too, however I was avoiding the inevitable "stop seeing racism around every corner" comments.
Also I was picking out the part that could be seen as relevant to this poster, sexism. (with the evidence given, she could have been black for all I know)
However I agree with you that there is some serious failings in our society as far as racism and sexism go and that is why I hate all of this which one is worse crap. It takes away from actually trying to solve the problems.
I think it is in part a lack of honest talk on the subject that allows these truly hateful things to continue.
April 6, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Milla, who wrote that comment is a true racist (or is pretending to be one). I actually got the "stop seeing racism around every corner" from poster, Anna, when I called him out a few weeks ago. But see my post below. There's no question.
April 6, 2008 11:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't write the comment that offended you and though some may disbelieve it, but I think both candidates have strengths and weaknesses, so I don't really care which one becomes the nominee, but...
The way I'd interpret the comment is that they're saying the person is excited, perhaps lustful for their candidate's victory and it's not a statement about his sex.
Otherwise, I was saying back in '00 that an unstoppable ticket from the Republican side would've been Liddy Dole and Colin Powell. My reasoning was that in addition to getting the Republican base, they'd both peel enough voters based on "identity politics" that they'd be unbeatable.
Yes, there are some women who support Hillary because of her sex or because they've worked their entire lives for feminist issues, but though you might try to label me a racist, I also have to say that if Obama weren't getting the percentages from the African-American community that he's been getting, it could be doubtful that he'd be in the position that he finds himself today.
I mean, it'd take a couple of minutes to find a bunch of quotes like the one in this article, but there's as many, if not more from the African-American community about how Obama's candidacy can be inspirational to their youth, as there are from women who say the same about Hillary.
We each have reasons for voting the way that we do. I voted for the candidate who was less likely to carry my state because I wanted the race to continue. Some women might vote for Hillary because she has a vagina and some African-Americans might vote for Obama because he looks like them. When you cut right down to it, no reason is actually better than another.
April 6, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
All else being equal, you're correct. However, in the real world, I'd argue there's better than 50/50 chance that any loss in the African-American community would be more than offset by gains in non-African-American communities. People would still be talking about his followers "drinking the kool-aid", they would just describe it as being a different flavor.
April 6, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know. I've campaigned for more than a year in an effort to make Obama a "better candidate" because I've always seen this as a race between him and one other, the question being whether that "one other" would be Hillary or Edwards, I couldn't be sure.
Just as, if Obama didn't have the ability to draw heavily from a significant bloc or certain physical characteristics, I don't know that he'd have such a following among the young and I can't be sure that we wouldn't now be locked in a battle between Hillary and Edwards.
(This is not to take anything away from any of the candidates, but they each bring to the table, what they have and part of what they have are the reasons that some people chose to dig deeper)
April 6, 2008 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
It honestly doesn't bother me that a woman votes for her because they are inspired that a woman could be the president or a black person voting for Obama for the same reason. Although I know it sounded like that was what I was saying there. I understand that these things mean a LOT to people.
What bothers me is how many times I have seen men being called sexist because we support Obama. Then to see that comment posted, it just hit one of my pet peeves.
I also see what you mean about the lust. However no matter what this poster believes the truth is there are plenty of Clinton supporters that feel that same lust for there candidate to win. The same blind faith Obama supporters are accused of every day on this site.
We as Obama supporters can not even bring up valid concerns without being berated for our concern.
It's a how dare you question my candidate type of thing, never mind that we should ALL question our candidates when concerns are raised. Both groups are guilty of this and it sincerely makes me angry to see it all put on one group.
April 6, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I completely understand what you're saying and I hoping that you won't think me difficult, but there is some sexism at play in these primaries among some of the supporters. You've touched upon the female-based sexism and if you clicked through to that Fort Wayne article that I linked in my previous comment, you'd see that the next quote after the "we aren't all crack dealers" one is from an (African-American?) woman who says that she supports Obama because he's a man.
I've also gathered from all of the comments, up and down that at some point the Hillary supporters may have seemed aggressive and maybe that was the case before I started hanging out around here, but I haven't really seen a lot of anything from the Hillary side since early Feb (when I became active), while I've seen a lot of insults and nonsense from the other side.
April 6, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think we all can easily overlook nasty comments that our from "our side". It takes effort to call them out, rather than gloss over it.
April 7, 2008 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good point and I know that you may not have been referring to me directly, but I don't really have a side except for wanting the race to continue and feeling a need to protect the Democratic candidates, whom I've actively supported in the past along with the Democratic party.
Whenever someone says something untoward about Obama, there's usually a pile of people jumping down the person's throat, but that's not usually the case with stuff directed toward Hillary and while I try to stay neutral, I often find myself having to say something in her defense. As I've also done on behalf of other people and would do for Obama, if there weren't so many others up to the task.
April 7, 2008 1:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gosh that was poor writing. 100 lashes for me.
Sorry.
April 7, 2008 2:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
The main point is civility, not issues of race and gender. I totally concur that the nasty personal attacks on candidates or supporter add nothing to the discussion. We should be able to disagree without personal attacks.
April 6, 2008 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Everything you're saying is spot on.
Except that you deny living in your parent's basement. If I take you at your word, that means you want to pay rent, do your own cooking and do your own laundry.
That's ridiculous!
Ur canddiaate Sux@
I wil Beet U upp[!
IN rall l;iff!
April 6, 2008 11:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, that quote is from a troll called Milla and it's alter ego, Milla J. Milla is in fact a hallucinogenic boy troll who gets off on writing provocatively racist and sexist comments. He left the exact comment you quote on six different threads. Here are some other lovely samples:
In one thread, I actually got in a stupid argument with Anna and Louisville1975, who were defending this prick. Anna wrote to me, "And really, don't conform to the stereotype of Obama supporters -- not every cut on the guy is racism." I think I can rest my case.
April 6, 2008 11:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the heads-up.
April 7, 2008 12:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm trying to figure out what pissed me off so much about this loser. Usually, trolls roll off my back, and I enjoy taking the piss out of 'em. Partly, it's that this guy is such a sicko. But mainly, I think it was Anna and Louisville's response. How blinded do you have to be by your own partisanship to stick up for this shit and to criticize me for calling him what he is?
April 7, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Genghis -
...to the gates of hell I'd follow you...
You're a consistently good soul - which shows even through the anonymous ether of the blogosphere - and you are the dogged conscience of TPM.
You see - in light of this post's justified indictment of the 'hide behind avatar' coward mentality - we should remember that our character (if we have a good one) should prevail in all realms of our existence. You know - the when nobody's looking part. It appears the internet is the ultimate test of same.
Don't feel as if you're a lonely voice in the night. And same shout out to all those who persistently decry the bullshit.
Yes - HOPE - springs eternal.
Thank you.
Courtney
April 7, 2008 3:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Shucks, Courtney, I have a reputation as cynical snarkster to uphold. I can surely name some posters who would disagree with you on the goodness of my soul and undoubtedly will if they see your comment. In truth, while I was annoyed by the criticism, I don't feel lonely. There are many good souls at TPM who have enough sense and conscience to call out out bad behavior and compliment thoughtful posts, regardless of affiliation. That's one of the things I love about this site.
But thank you for the kind post.
April 7, 2008 8:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
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