Reader Posts

« previous | TPM CAFÉ READER POSTS HOME | next »

Obama says PA is closer than people think

avatar

This is getting picked up on MSNBC and elsewhere. Apparently, Senator Obama went on local radio this morning in Philly and said "I'm predicting it's going to be close and that we are going to do a lot better than people expect."

This begs the question: What do the Obama campaign internal polls tell him? I've heard "talk" that their poll says he's within 2 or 3 points. I've heard "talk" that Rendell says Hillary's internal polls say the same thing.

Why else would Obama go on local radio and, basically, play against the expectations game by saying it's closer than everyone thinks? (One possible answer: It's a GOTV tactic.)

I'm curious of what the folks here think of this.


Comments (30)

It's a stupid remark to make though because it lowers expectations for Hillary. So now if she wins by 10+, she can point to the big win, saying only yesterday Obama was saying it was really close...

It has its pluses and minuses. If saying this narrows the margin from 10% to 8%, then he picks up a delegate or two now (not having done the actual math) at the risk of possibly losing a delegate or two later due to Hillary being able to label this a "big win". Given a choice, I'd rather have that short term gain, since the longer term loss is probably no bigger than the immediate gain, and is potentially smaller—especially since any gain now makes the inevitability of Obama's win that much clearer.

I kind of agree with this. I think it might be a last minute GOTV push. If he can make people think that he is close, it might stir voters to attempt to push him over the threshold to a close win. Of course it won't work, but it might get him to single digits.

It's definitely a surprising statement and runs contrary to the strategies of both campaigns all season. It doesn't sound like a thoughtless off-the-cuff remark either. I'm not sure what to make of it except that he must be pretty confident that he'll beat the polls.

avatar

Drudge now says Clinton's internals say she's up by 11.

Not sure what to make of this one either. Is it accurate? Spin? A response to what Obama said earlier?

If we take them both at face value, how could their two campaigns come up with such different results? Who's is more credible at this point?

It could be that they're weighting turnout differently. In that case, who's right?

I'd guess they're playing off the existing expectations game to energize voters. Obama voters need to feel there's a chance to win. Clinton voters need to feel the win could be big enough to give her a big boost.

I think these last-minute comments have less ability to change expectations, especially in a primary with such a long, endlessly analyzed run-up. The media has it's narrative on this one.

I simply do not trust Drudge, so I do not think that there is any need to consider these results.

avatar

Hard to say. It doesn't work in terms of the expectations game - better to say your gonna get blown out and then exceed expectations. On the other hand, if your people really believe you're gonna lose, they're more likely to stay home. So saying something like that may help his turnout somewhat. Or maybe its just true?

Perhaps it is meant as motivation for voters and supporters -- ie, let's get out there and make this happen.

I see your snark and raise you an expectation...

Actually, lets not raise any expectiations.

Considering that a few short polling cycles ago, Obama landing withing 20 points was considered an upset, these neck-and-neck polls defy certitude.

About a week ago, I called PA a 3-point win for Obama... just by putting a straight-edge to the averaged-poll trajectory. According to the PPP poll, I was a day early...

Sometimes, the writing really IS on the wall.

avatar

Could it be a pitch for money? I haven't given at all this month, haven't quite felt the urgency. I felt he was going to lose PA by 20 and it didn't concern me. I was surprised he was spending so much there rather than just heading off to NC and IN and focusing there. I just wonder if April fundraising is down. I haven't seen any numbers.

avatar

I'm really thinking that Obama's internals are way off on this one. At this point all of the polls are showing a swing in Clinton's direction, so that at least a 5-6 pt win is expected. I think Clinton's internals are more on track, and am guessing that it'll be between 10-14 pts once the undecideds are factored in.

My take is that both of them are now "playing" to the Supers, and his campaign is declaring him the "winner" even if he were to lose by a few %. There are two criteria to truly consider this a "win" 1. He came from a -20% disadvantage and he shaved a double digit lead from her in her base state and 2. He did it with Hillary going full-throttle Rove at him and WITHOUT him hitting her back, hard.

The message is clear - he can withstand Rove's apparatus and still win with one armed tied behind him.

This is masssively *impressive*! The Supers will certainly noticee, so yes, he's WON, even if he were to lose by a slim margin. :)

avatar

Apparently, the Clinton camp is now denying the poll that Drudge posted. I'm sure Greg will have the blow-by-blow of their conference call shortly. From the snippets over on DKos, though, it sure sounds like the Clinton camp thinks this is going down to the wire as well.

Ah, forgot a 3rd criteria - unlike Hillary, he's won without racking up skyhigh unfavourable ratings and turning off a lot of voters.

Please people, get the Supers attention if you can, maybe it'll end with Pennsylvannia, or latest by May 6th!

I believe it is a pitch to get out the vote. Obama is looking beyond a day or two of expectation based spin toward the national popular vote. If voter enthusiasm mitigates the PA loss by one or two points, it will be equivalent to gaining an extra twelve percent of the vote is a smaller state like W. Viginia. Obama is fighting the war, not the battle.

Ok, my final $0.02, sorry, my thoughts are all over the place sometimes and I can "see" something take shape but it's hard to articulate it until moments later...excuse the quirk..

The Supers are political animals - they breathe, eat and dream this stuff. They would know that he has only used "defense" against Hillary, the furthest he's gone on a personal attack is when he's quoting something she said or Bill said to illuminate double standards or hypocrisy. They know all the offensive stuff he *could have* used alright, I mean, his people must be trawling TPM, Huffington,etc. for all the nuggets, Screwgate, Colombia, her campaign debts, Wright was her spiritual guide during Lewinsky...remember...cue blue dress, a finger-shaking Billy....walls have ears in Washington and these poeple *gossip* - you can't be a politician if you don't know the grapevine. I'm not one, and I can rattle off a number of nasties from the top of my head.

So yeah, the Supers would have been taking scores, and I'm sure Bill and Hillary too.

I don't think Hillary thinks she's going to win, but she's probably planning on her next move to secure the VP. She's in a good position for that, despite any misgivings about her going Rove. Obama supporters will vote for their ticket *regardless*, her supporters will vote for her, and she can advance her case that she'll play Cheney to Obama, the bad cop, the "old Wahington hand", etc. vs, McCain's "old Washington hand".

avatar

I'll go out on a limb and say there's no way in Whoville that Clinton is Obama's VP. Or vice versa.

Heard the expression "Politics make strange bedfellows"? I'd wager on it. :) You guys know what I feel about Hillary these months, but I'm coming round to the idea. Bill and Hill are backed by the people who really pull the strings both sides of the Atlantic. They will never let Obama through, but maybe Hillary can be his Trojan Horse...

I have to agree with Qwerty on this one, but looking at it from a more negative point of view, can you imagine the risk of NOT going with her as VP? He would fully alienate her supporters.

I hope to God you're wrong about that. I cannot stand the mere sound of her voice at the moment. I think we're better off without the Clintons around at all.

I'd bet that 100% of Obama supporters will vote an Obama-Clinton ticket, as would 100% of Hillary's supporters. By the time the Convention comes round, all would be forgiven, and Hillary wopuld have been praised for doing such a fine job of vetting Obama and rendering the likes of Limbaugh impotent, played the Republicans for fools, etc.

How many fence-sitting, low-information voters would you turn off with such a ticket, however? I'm guessing far too many.

My guess is that he has to pass over whoever he'd really like (like, say, Dodd or Biden or Richardson) and pick someone closely identified with the Clintons like Wes Clark, but he's not going to give it to Hillary and she's not going to take it if it's offered. It would be a step down from being a real Senator and there's no upside. It's not like she'll be in a position to run in eight years--too old. If she's veep, no way does she exercise Cheney-like influence. Instead, she can look forward to eight years of breaking ties in the Senate and attending funerals of people who are either insufficiently important or insufficiently liked to rate a presidential appearance.

I'd like to second a video I saw on Current TV last night, where one of the characters says Hillary sounds a lot like his mother, in a negative way.

Obama's call makes me more confident about what I wrote this morning - it'll be either one by a nose. I agree that this wasn't something off the cuff. It's his way of showing he has an ace up his long sleeve...

So this is excellent news! For Hillary!

All's fair in love and war, etc. I used to hate the idea too, but pragmatism is going to prevail. There are us voters and there're the smoke-filled rooms. I'd get a Dem in, especially one like Obama, any way I can. He won't change Washington completely, he can't, the entrenched interests won't have it, but he can change it for the better. I hope he will do much more eventually, but I'm fine with one step at a time.

From Moore's endorsement. Couldn't agree more:

How sad for a country that wanted to see the first woman elected to the White House. That day will come -- but it won't be you. We'll have to wait for the current Democratic governor of Kansas to run in 2016 (you read it here first!).

There are those who say Obama isn't ready, or he's voted wrong on this or that. But that's looking at the trees and not the forest. What we are witnessing is not just a candidate but a profound, massive public movement for change. My endorsement is more for Obama The Movement than it is for Obama the candidate.

That is not to take anything away from this exceptional man. But what's going on is bigger than him at this point, and that's a good thing for the country. Because, when he wins in November, that Obama Movement is going to have to stay alert and active. Corporate America is not going to give up their hold on our government just because we say so. President Obama is going to need a nation of millions to stand behind him.

Link to the whole thing: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/21/michael-moore-endorses-ob_n_97732.html

Post a Comment

Advertisement
Please disable your adblocker!
Ads are how we pay the bills!

Subscribe

The Coffee House
TPMCafe's regulars

House Brew
From Your Cafe Editor

Special Guests
Big names and big brains

Special Features
Pressing topics and trends

Table for One
An expert's week-long talk.

All Reader Posts
TPM readers discuss.

Book Club Calendar

Coming Soon



Nov. 30-Dec. 4



January 12-16



« Book Club ArchiveFull calendar »

Recent Reader Posts

All Reader Posts »





Masthead

Editor-in-Chief
Josh Marshall



Subscribe to TPMCafe's feed.
Subscribe to TPMCafe's reader blog feed.

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address