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McCain/Rove.. No Match for Obama
What evidence is there to show that McCain can rip Obama to shreds? Everyone has been saying that Hillary has been using all of the GOP attack approaches however I am yet to see one of them that floored Obama. Absolutely NONE. Either she is using the GOP attacks or she aint. So far none of them work. So what makes anyone believe that they will work with McCain?
Secondly, some people speak of Obama in Messianic tones. Well if Obama can be seen in such a light how shall we see Rove then? It is such an odd thing that everytime we think we hear the word ROVE that the DEMS seem to run into this huge panic mode like as if the sky is falling. We seem to cower and whimper and start that rattling of teeth thing. What makes Rove so powerful that he can take an entire party and its supporters and send them scampering like chickens without heads?
Can it not be that Rove has now met his match in Obama? Is it not possible that Obama's approach can easily knock the wind out of Rove's sails?
Come on peoples.. give yourself a chance.. get some back bone and some spine and look to the Obama campaign and Obama himself to reap resounding success over McCain and put this ROVE whimpering to rest.. ONCE AND FOR ALL..
Quite frankly, I think Rove's success is based purely on a weak and timid democratic party and its weak and timid supporters, beyond this I think he is an average joe. The day the DEMS begin to fight back, Rove's credentials will come to naught. Look for this to happen when Obama starts to challenge McCain directly, once Hillary is gone.
Cheers
Comments (19)
I think Rove is possessed of the Power of the Jade Medallion, has a shrunken cinder for a heart and has lightening shooting out of his ass.
He is, in short, an amazing walking giant brain against whom none can prevail.
Or, he's a shriveled little pinhead with a nasty streak and a record of winning elections by revving up the racists and fellow pinheads.
I can't decide.
April 19, 2008 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fear-based politics begets fear-based government.
Fear has become the all-purpose political lubricant.
So we are supposed to reject a candidate because we are afraid of Rove? Are we going to reject the Democratic party because we are afraid of terrorists? Are we going to surrender because we are afraid of being attacked?
It's as if we are all children, afraid of the boogey-men under our bed.
April 20, 2008 2:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yahtzee.
April 20, 2008 2:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Great to see optimism among Obama supporters. I'd caution though, it's not just one man but an entire apparatus, a lot of powerful etsablishment players, TONS of $$$ and an army of mini-Roves to hijack and blanket political discourse. I also foresee a lot of "Democrats" in a McCain-supporting role if Obama is the nominee. While I think they can be beaten, I wouldn't underestimate them. So far, Hillary is testing Attack version 0.1 for them. I hope Obama and his people are judiciously studying past patterns to envisage the worst case scenario. Kerry 2004 looked like a sure thing up to the last vote in Ohio.
The previous "debate" has shown a way forward - it really takes collective revulsion, the people saying we won't take it anymore, the pundits shaming the MSM. We cannot shirk our role come November, fuel up and keep going!
April 20, 2008 4:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
`Muck'? You're posting from La-La Land. sigh
"Everyone has been saying that Hillary has been using all of the GOP attack approaches however I am yet to see one of them that floored Obama. Absolutely NONE.
Either she is using the GOP attacks or she aint. So far none of them work."
Right. His unfavourables are now 51%.
In the Democratic race, he's gone from leading her 51-40 before the debate to trailing her 45-46.
No cheer here.
April 20, 2008 4:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are those birth control pills?
I'm beginning to come around to the theory that - while it does not reflect well on Clinton, to say the least - this whole Taste of Rove thing might not be so bad for him. Because it's not working for her. Her unfavorables are going up too, and the evidence is that this has hurt her worse than it has him. McCain is watching and thinking, "do I want to go down ugly like this and not even win?" Obama's fighting back so much better than Kerry did. And I don't care what the pundits say - that debate performance, where he allegedly didn't fight back - wrong. He came out looking sympathetic and the moderators looked like total jerks. And so did H because she reveled in it.
April 20, 2008 6:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
MC Rove vs Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYZre8kEsuw
April 20, 2008 7:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
God that's painful to watch.
April 20, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would have once believed that Obama has the power to beat Rove and the GOP machine. However, as the months have progressed it has become clear that Obama is just another politician, a good one no doubt, but one that is primed and ready to be eaten up by Rove and his cronies.
To those of you who don't believe this, I beg you to take a history lesson. Never in recent history have we had a contender with this much baggage that will easily be construed as anti-American, not to mention he is black, and yes that too will matter.
McCain is a good ole boy, but what's worse, McCain is someone that I, a Democrat, actually like! And I'm not alone: McCain appeals to the center precisely because he has been able to disconnect himself from Bush. What dirt do the Dems have on McCain other than the fact that he's as old as dirt?
No, I must respectfully disagree with this post. Your optimism needs a reality check. All of these Democratic primaries have confused you into thinking Obama has support that could form a general election coalition. You should know America better than that.
April 20, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brand182
Is it true that all of the baggage you mentioned has been thrown at Obama before? If this is not true then please enlighten me.
Likewise is it true that Obama and his team has waded through this baggage before and has come out successful?
If this is the case, please enlighten me again as to what is in the Rove arsenal to knock Obama straight to the ground in a single punch.
I continue to say that Rove's strength lies in a very weak democratic party and weak supporters. A party with supporters who are not willing to heave their chest and fight to win.
Is there really no one who is willing to challenge this Rove guy? Are you telling me that we have to accept defeat just because Rove decides to take a deep breath? Am I to believe that we must lose every election just because Rove is around? Nonsense!
It's poor judgement and weakness in any DEMS supporter who votes for McCain.
I think Obama is better than Rove and I expect him to win in November. Pure and Simple!
April 20, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh Shoot -
1) It should be clear, after the past few months, that Obama has more baggage than we know about. Case in point: Ayers has just started gaining attention. An ignorant point to focus on? Perhaps. But not something the GOP won't construe as a negative for Obama. Rezko's trial is still going on in the background, and there is still the (good) possibility that Obama will have more to deal with on that front as well.
2) Obama may have dealt with his faults in the opinion of the MSM and his supporters like yourself, but I can assure you that a large segment of voters remains worried about the Wright controversy, the small town remarks, etc., again, regardless of how moot you may consider these points. They will be big deals again in the general when Obama is needing to win the support of undecideds who don't view Obama as a do-no-wrong character.
3) It should also be apparent that after the Wright controversy, and now again after the small town comments (which is not nearly as big of a deal, IMO), Obama's national support took a huge hit. I remember just recently seeing Obama maintaining a 10-point lead over Clinton in the Rasmussen and Gallup polls. Now he is again within the margin of error and Clinton even overtook him 46-45 yesterday, DESPITE what should have already been a consensus that Obama is the clear nominee. Why then is it that case that just as many voters won't commit to Obama as those that will?
4) You missed my point if you think I am implying that Rove is unbeatable and that we should accept defeat. On the contrary, I still think this is the Democrats year to lose. BUT, I think it is foolish for people not to acknoweldge Obama's real weaknesses. If all of these controversial issues have been raised just in the past few months, without the GOP yet focusing heavily on Obama, how much more do you think will be brought up leading up to November?
This is why you see so many voters (and superdelegates) not closing the deal for Obama. Clinton made a great point at the debate: she has been the focus of the GOP attack machine for years and there really isn't much more to expose. Moreover, many of Clinton's supporters just don't care! They know that she is a politician and she has flaws and they know that she is running on her intelligence and policy-proposals and not some idea of transcending the old game of politics.
It remains to be explained by Obama supporters why they support him. It certainly can't be that he wants to change the game of politics, because while he claims to be above the fray, he's assaulting Clinton's character on a regular basis these days.
April 20, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mcain has tons of baggage. Keeting Five anyone? Screwing millions of Americans out of there money.
How about lobbyists lobbying from the straight talk express?
Disconnect from Bush you say? He is on record flip flopping all of his positions to match those of G W Bush. Even fricken torture.
He wants to keep bushes tax cuts for the richest Americans,
He wants to stay in this war which coupled with the tax cuts will destroy our economy,
He is pushing the Bush rhetoric that is trying to make Americans believe we should attack Iran next.
Even to the sickening point of singing Bomb Iran to the tune of the beach boys.
The media has separated him from Bush. Once we have a candidate that can bring him under the spotlight that may become apparent to moderate Dems.
This man is not a moderate. He has voted on a few issues that he feels can be sacrificed by the GOP in order to look moderate.
I find it funny that polls are now showing this country to be divided well over half Democrat or Democrat leaning independent and we can't win an election.
We support Obama because we believe he will be a better president. Nuff said.
You can throw any buzz word you want out about experience etc, however there is no historic evidence to suport that any quality makes for a good president. For every great ppresident with that quality you can come up with one who had it but was terrible.
Hell just an example, G. W. Bush had experience, including his father as a resource who spent 12 years in the White house. Great president he turned out to be right?
However, those of us who actually have studied Mcain will vote for whoever the democratic candidate is. Because that is what the republicans will do and that (plus election tampering) is how they win.
Because they realize one thing that democrats can't seem to understand, ANY republican will match there world views better then ANY Democrat. We defeat ourselves and then whine about Rovian tactics.
April 20, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rove is old news.
I still can't believe Democrats are so goddang scared and afraid of THE BIG BAD REPUBLICANS!
Dems has lots their soul b/c of this fear.
GET A GODDAM SPINE, WILL YOU!
Obams WILL NOT BE SWIFT-BOATED!
April 20, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Declaring that Obama will not be swift-boated is not sufficient to ensuring that he will not swift-boated. History has taught us differently. While I am impressed with Obama's ability to take a hit and fire back, his performance at the debate was lacking and worthy of concern.
Since when have we had a Democratic candidate with this much baggage than can be construed into an anti-patriotic narrative? If you don't think they'll do it, I would think again.
April 20, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brand182
I have seen all of what you posted many times before and let me say it again.. Obama has been through all of this before and passed each test quite successfully.
No one is trying to imply that Obama will get a free ride to the white house. I, more than you expect Obama to be tested and roasted and broasted during the campaign but I expect him to WIN.
I still cannot understand why we are so fearful of Rove and McCain. You speak as though we just do not stand a chance against the GOP. As though McCain and Rove are free of baggage and even if they have baggage that we cannot counter their attacks with greater attacks of our own. Are we really that spineless? Tell me!!
I do not believe that the super delegates are not running behind Obama because of the reasons you mentioned. I think they are too weak to come right out and support Obama for fear that Clinton will unscrew their heads just as they did Richardson. There are other reasons too which I wont mention here.
In like manner, you are fearful for Obama on the Wright issue and the Muslim stuff and all the other things you mention. Obama is not fearful so why are you? Quit the fear and start selling victory for the DEMs in November. Stop giving ROVE fuel for his pretence at poltical genius. Give this fuel to Obama for a decisive victory in November.. hey we need it.. the world needs it... and so do you.
Come on man!!! stop whimpering in your corner and get out there with the rest of us and get a Democrat in the house. It is becoming more and more apparent that Obama will be the nominee.. so for God's sake get a spine and let us get him in the house.
Down with Rove.. up with Obama.
April 20, 2008 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
While I appreciate your post, I can only answer that I do not believe Obama has successfully handled the tests he has been presented with. His speech, though lauded by the MSM and supporters, was largely a distraction from the issue at hand. Instead of clearly explaining his relations with Wright, he commenced to give America a lesson on racism. I do not think that this was a noble move.
Likewise, while his small town comments may have been true in one sense - in that people do often vote on cultural issues instead of economic ones, and that this has been a driving wedge that Republicans use - I do not think he fully explained himself to white, rural voters. There is still a lot of ambiguity over whether he truly meant that people "cling" (a better word would be focus on) guns, religion, etc. out of desperation.
Had Obama solved this and other issues successfully, they would not continue to be discussed and Democrats like myself would rally be more open to rallying behind him. Obama remains a shadowy figure for me and many others, and this has only been further cemented in how he has dealt with issues.
For instance, his stance on guns is contradictory from his previous stance. He is preparing to contradict his stance on public financing. These and other issues continue to bewilder me.
So let's be clear then: I am not whimpering in my corner. I am assessing the situation, and I honestly believe that Hillary Clinton will be a better candidate against John McCain. At the same time, I am part of the group that believes Clinton will not receive the nomination, which places me in a predicament.
Ultimately, I feel that many Obama supporters are not seeing the reality of the situation. They believe that his incredible popularity among party activists in the primaries will carry into the general. Perhaps to an extent, but I also think you all underestimate the extent to which the GOP machine will relentlessly attack Obama's character.
April 20, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brand182
You know, I am not sure that politicians are ever able to put any issue to rest. No matter what level of explaining is done the matter is always some where near the surface.
Just take a few minutes to think about any of the presidential hopefuls in the last 20 years and you will see that everyone of them had to deal with issues that were even as much as 20 years old.
The competition will always unearth pass events in order to find a small opening to the under-belly of the oponent. Thats how competition works.
I am pretty comfortable with most of Obama's explanations on all the issues which you mentioned. Most people in the primaries are comfortable too, otherwise he would not have won so many electoral contests.
Let it be understood that in most cases, the people elect their representatives and right now, the people are pretty happy with Obama's explanations of the events. I agree that you might have some personal reservations but this would be the case no matter who was campaigning. We all carry lots of baggage.
The difference really is how we handle our baggage. Obama has done well to get his public to pay attention to those baggage moments but then give him the benefit of the doubt.
Hey... let me suggest that you gear up to vote for Obama instead of McCain. Voting for McCain is a foolish thing to do. The world needs a break from the nonsense of this current administration. McCain is a BUSH surrgoate.. as you know. The US needs to breathe agan, McCain cannot provide the fresh air we need to breathe again.
So no matter what McCain says or does, you would be misguided to even consider voting for him as opposed to Obama or Hillary. It is a wasted vote. Do yourself a favour and be wise.
Cheers
April 20, 2008 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rove successfully marketed the relatively inexperienced George Bush as Axelrod has successfully marketed the relatively inexperienced Obama. I'm waiting for Americans to wake up and stop looking for some Gameboy hero. Clinton is what we need to get the country back in working order. Not the Glitz of the slickly tailored Obama and his slicker speeches. Democracy is not about Messiahs.
April 20, 2008 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Vaughn
You are quite right, there is quite a bit of marketing in the selling of any candidate. Unfortunately neither Hillary nor her handlers are marketing her very well.
Remember that Hillary's perception as a truthful person is diving everyday. I am not sure anyone can fix that now.
Remember that she started this race ahead of everyone else. She was campaigning for years, she had everything needed to wrap up this campaign. She sqandered it all. She is an extremely poor manager of her resources.
She has been outstripped by the inexperienced NEWBIE is every aspect of this campaign. Obama is her brick wall and she has plunged her head into that wall on several occasions.
If you put the two together and compare them, you will see that Obama has outperformed Hillary in every single facet of these primaries. Personally, I cannot see any tangible reason why Hillary should be the nominee but if you are will to pen a list, I am more than willing to see what's in her asset chest that's worth considering at this time.
Listening....
April 20, 2008 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
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