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J'Accuse!---Cafe Cockup Called Out

As a previous discussion has revealed, in my "Blogs Are Common, Conversation Is Not", there is much dissatisfaction and no illumination concerning the problems that persist here. Several of our contributors, such as Tankard and Pseudocyants, have shot down the software bug excuse, I am personally astonished that TPM would let hard drives carrying their archives go somewhere else, and we have only received disclaimers and pleas for sypmpathy from Andrew and Josh.

At this point, another "we're working on it" is likely to generate ridicule. At first I was sympathetic, but I am growing suspicious that there has been a lawsuit-level screwup. It may be that  Josh can't say anything to avoid compromising a case. If so, let's hear it; surely there is no non-disclosure requirement like an FBI national security letter.

But if the vendors screwed up, let's embarrass them in public. And if TPM blew it, just 'fess up and apologize. We'll get over it.

There is a show-biz proverb: "Be careful who you step on while on the way up; you may need them on the way down."


Comments (21)

Tom, I'd recommend this post, but the software won't let me.

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Link here to Tom's previous post, as it's disappeared into never-never-land.

Yeah, should have added the link in the body:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/blogs-are-commonconversation-i.php

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When I click on the person's name, (even though it isn't highlighted), it links to all of their earlier comments. Doesn't that work for everyone? I'm confused.

You're only able to view 15 blog posts, and 10 comments of a particular user. That's it. Anything else gets sent to the great Servers On The Truck.

So, if you've written 20 blog posts, you can probably kiss those first 5 goodbye.

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What? Click on his byline and his post is there. As I posted last night, it appears that those who edit out their "full name" in their profile, don't have a byline when they blog. Those who use a different "full name" than their "display name" blog under their "full name", but comment under their "display name". Maybe part of the problem with following a particular thread or writer is the use of two names.

Tom -- I don't blame people for being pissed about the continuing bugs and problems with the site. But candidly it's been an even bigger nightmare for our staff here at TPM. And we've been working at this constantly to get things fixed. I almost don't know whether to cry or to laugh when I hear that people have "shot down the bug excuse" since I talk to our tech people every day and the manufacturers of the software a few times a week and all we talk about is the bugs. We probably could have done better at various points providing more on-going information. But it's a difficult balance since we also don't want to tell people that X and Y are going to be done on a given day only to see that not happen. And that's pretty much how it's been for weeks.

For the last ten days or so we and our tech people have been debugging a new version of the software platform. And for the last two nights and also tonight our staff is going to be beta-testing the new set up.

We are hopeful that we're going to have the password, forced log out, byline and publishing delay issues either fixed or substantially improved by next week. I will try to provide more information in a new post, but I have to just conclude by saying that I really don't have anything to add for people who think there's some sort of conspiracy to keep the real truth hidden from readers. The truth is depressingly mundane. We were early adopters of the new version of our publishing software. It had design flaws and bugs. We took that on the chin in a big way. It's been a lousy situation. But I'm convinced that our consultants and the software vendors are working with us in good faith to fix the problems. So we're working with them on that basis. Again, I apologize for the problems. I understand that people are unhappy and I cannot blame anyone if they are just fed up and want to leave even though I very much hope people will not do that. We are working as hard as we can and I'm confident that you'll start seeing the results soon.

Thanks for the reply.

Hope you get a big refund from your vendors.

We still miss the discussion tables, and don't see how the new system can replace that function. And without reader ratings we can't suppress flames and trolls. I have not found anything elsewhere even close to the old system for community.

As I said before, I got noplace else to go.

To be fair, I've seen bad IT projects go this way before. It can be months and even years before the consultants stop living with you.


A suggestion: it seems to work best if you give them an allowance, but also weekly chores to develop their sense of responsibility.

Thanks. I appreciate your efforts.

I am new here, to the comments and postings and blogging, by about two months, I think, so I have no complaints. Earlier in the week I lost a potential post -- poof -- but other than that it was just a mild irritation when I suddenly got logged out. These past few nights I've noticed an improvement, especially tonight, which is a busy night.

The decision to install a text editor on Reader Blog posts but not on reader comments was really really dumb, it causes confusion every day (see here for one of today's examples.) Either put it on both or neither.

It would be much better to uninstall it from the Reader Blogs, as you have attracted a lot of commenters from Election Central to decide to try out a blog post who by pasting pre-written documents from Word and haven't been trained by in their commenting here to use or even notice your text editor. Instead, they have been trained by commenting here to use html. And you have also trained them with the long delay for comments to appear to pre-write things on another application. Ergo, with the "system" you have now, you will always have messy Reader blog posts appearing as newbie commenters step up to trying out a blog post.

If the decision is to leave as is, there should at least be instructions on the "create a Reader Blog" page for users to notice and use the text editor, that it is required.

A note on programming, which I know absolutely nothing about but about which I have learned to intuit in the results I see:

A user's comments upon submission appear vitually immediately on their My Profile listing. The long time delay in publishing them only happens regarding their appearance on the thread itself. This suggests to me a really really clueless traffic design, one that doesn't even understand how people use a site like this: people don't need to see their comments on their user list right away, they need to see them on the thread they were commenting on. The user comments like they use much later in time, when they want to return to a thread. Just clueless programmer design!

As a software developer, I deplore the way the site was rolled out--insufficiently stress tested and almost unusable. But TPM did get it up to a functional level, and Tom, I think that you're underestimating the complexity involved in fixing remaining issues. First of all, the software, Movable Type, is not built by TPM's vendor. It's a commercial and open-source off-the-shelf program. The vendor just customized it for TPM. To get those bugs fixed, TPM has to go through the software maker, Six Apart, which has many customers other than TPM. You can bitch on TPM all you want, but it won't get the Movable Type bugs fixed any faster.

Second, you're conflating bugs and features. The bugs that interfere with the basic usability are the most critical and should be handled in a short time frame. Features are different. As Josh explained previously, the new platform lacks some features like comment tracking. TPM plans to add this, but they have to build a plugin from scratch, which will take time and money. The value of some features, like 1-5 comment rating, while missed by cafe oldsters, is debatable. I have no trouble distinguishing smart comments from dumb ones without the assistance of someone's rating, and I seem to recall some whining about low ratings. I'm happy to have a recommendations system, but I don't care to have some troll give me a 1 because he disagrees with me.

Third, many of the complaints that I've seen about the new TPM have to do with content--how it's all elections all the time. I wasn't a big cafe frequenter before the change, but I'm willing to bet that a lot of the election content is the result of a passionately contested primary that pits progressive TPM readers against one another, and that this tendency was further enhanced by integrating TPM Election Central with TPM Cafe. This change was what really brought me into the cafe, as I had been commenting at Election Central for some months but barely touched the cafe unless Josh drew attention to a thread there. In any case, I expect there to be a drop in election posts after the nomination has been settled and of course a much bigger drop after November. The cafe will probably lose a lot of readers at that point, but hopefully, enough of us election bloggers will stick around to help maintain the vibrant community of the past few months.

Finally, the FBI theory, if you meant it sincerely, is just ridiculous. I would, however, agree with posters calling for more transparency from TPM on tech status and future plans, which would do much to contain the fantasies of frustrated readers. Josh and Andrew do occasionally post about it, but it would be nice to have a sticky page devoted to known bugs and planned features.

Genghis, who clearly knows much more about creating and debugging complex systems than I do, has a pretty good handle on what we're dealing with. This is not just a matter of fine-tuning a server set up. We have customization of mass-produced software and key problems that were discovered in the software itself. That has required working both with our consultants and with the vendor. The details would bore everyone. And it's driven me crazy that it's taken this long, but the simple truth is that if you're not Time Warner or CNN.com and can't mobilize hundreds of people this stuff just takes a while. Drives me crazy. And I know it drives you guys nuts too. But there's simply no way around it.

Genghis is also correct in distinguishing between bugs and design flaws in the underlying software and feature enhancements. These are two different things. And in the nature of things we've needed to address the first category first. There are two major enhancements we have on the drawing board -- comment tracking and a big enhancement of editing capabilities for commenting and blogging. But we have to get the underlying engine working before we can get to these.

One other point that hasn't been mentioned. In addition to the problems users see here, there is a whole different set of issues we've been dealing with on the back end -- stuff that has hobbled our ability to publish stuff in a timely manner. So that is obviously something we've needed to give high priority to as well.

I also know that many long-time TPMCafe denizens lament the more intimate environment of the old site which allowed for a less fractious kind of discussion where actual ... discussion was possible. Part of that was features, many of which have been lost, and part of it was the kind of community that had developed. Partly, by removing the dikes and and sluices that kept TPMCafe apart from the other sites we did away with a lot of that. And the loss of features did even more.

Some of this was intentional. The old TPMCafe was great, but its user base was extremely small and very, very few of our readers participated. A miniscule number would be an accurate approximation. What we didn't fully take into account is the way that all of this happened during the most intense and embittered primary campaign in living memory. So in addition to everything else that had been going on -- some intentional, some intentional but with unpredicted consequences, others software problems -- the intense and even fratricidal primary debate sloshed into TPMCafe.

Anyway, that's sort of an overview to where I think we are now. We plan on inviting a few dozen users to help us beta-test the new system this weekend. Hopefully, that will come online. Then we'll start discussing with you the readers, as a group, how to fine-tune the new features we've discussed, and also had to create sections of TPMCafe where the discussions that were possible in the old set up will be possible in the new. I'll be reporting back with new information soon.

Now, this is the kind of update that readers here have been seeking for quite a while! Thanks very much for the full update and the bigger picture on what's behind the issues people have been complaining about.

For better or worse, this update will disappear from the reader's view as soon as this blog post expires. Hence why people have suggested that this be addressed on a separate, non-expiring place on the site. But I suspect it's doubtful that can happen. I think I'll just re-post this in the next day or two so this valuable commentary can get more exposure.

Thanks for taking the time to speak to the readers directly on this, Josh.

Don't know if this is useful at this point, but I'm relatively web-savvy and I can't get HTML or the text editor to work. I'm on a Mac, and perhaps that's the problem. But it would be really awesome to have a general FAQ on posting, etc...

Folks, as I noted in my earlier comment in this thread, we want some help beta-testing the new version of the tpm software we hope to roll out soon. Your help will make a big difference in allowing us to roll out a bug free version of TPMCafe in the near future. If you'd like to help, please send us an email today (Saturday) at tpmbugs@gmail.com. We'll send instructions and details.

Parting comment:

I am of course aware, as are most here, that bugs and features are distinct. The difference led to two populations with differing complaints. I have rarely emphasized the bugs, except to the point of showing TPM as acting opaque on the subject. My purpose was to be enough of a pest to get a more detailed answer.

Josh's point about the small number of participants at the old Cafe is noted, but there is a small number of staff at TPM, and a small number of contributing guest writers. The existence of that small number of chatty Cafe members was what attracted me to remain, and I saw comments quite often, from new members, about how pleasing it was to find thoughtful conversation.

This is why I am still here, the hope of continuing that conversation. I remember an old AOL feature, private rooms for chat. Perhaps Josh would be willing to link to an outside site where we could keep that happening? (I have one in mind.)

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