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I finally get it!!!!!
This has probably been posted here a million times, and has been talked about before just as many times but I finally get why Hillary is doing what she is doing. Again, I know this has probably been talked about already, but it finally hit me. I read a post here that said the reason Hillary was playing hardball even though she knows it is unlikely that she will get the nomination is because she had a "master plan" that will land her the White House in four years after Obama loses the presidential race because of her attacks. I simply just do not want to believe that. I guess I have a little more faith in her than I should. But as I sit here thinkin that the greater the division between Hillary and Obama the more likely it is that Obama will HAVE to pick Hillary as his running mate if he wants to beat the Old Man in the general election. So that's it, I now truly believe that the reason she is splitting up the party is so that Obama has no choice but to pick her as his running mate in order for him to get those Hillary voters that claim will not vote for Obama if he wins the nomination. I have no doubt in my mind that she understands that by hurting Obama her supporters are more likely to not vote for him in the general election. If she understands that and continues to try to hurt Obama then the only explanation I have is that she wants to be in the White House even if it is as a Vice-President. As much as I want Obama to pick anyone else as his running mate, exit polls show that only 50% of Hillary voters would vote for Obama if he wins the nomination. This is the number that Hillary, in my opinion, has been working on in order to be Obama's running mate. Are you buying?
Comments (11)
No. Only a complete moron would pick Hillary as a veep at this point. And Obama ain't stupid.
Hillary's negatives are now so high as to outweigh any possible benefit that she might bring to a joint ticket. VP Hillary would go against Obama's entire message of change and new style of politics. It would lose him at least as many votes as it'd gain.
April 22, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Codegen, i agree that Hillary would not be the best choice for Obama, it goes against the change we believe he'll bring, but it seems like it is becoming more and more inevitable as this race goes on. The truth is that Hillary has a lot of surporters, and alot of them have gotten to a point where they hate Obama and will not vote for him. He might be FORCED to pick her as his running mate if this continues.
April 22, 2008 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean hope might not be enough to offset reality?
Call the press corps, we've got to get this news out fast.
April 22, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
haha, that's funny...hang in there, i think you'll eventually understand what Obama means by hope. I understand that it takes time, knowing that the politics of yesterday can make it hard for people to see clearly. It has obviously had an effect on you. Good luck my man!
April 22, 2008 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree. Hillary's entire survival at this point hinges on her hold on the machine apparatus of the Democratic party.
This is why she's won in the large Democratic leaning states. She controls the party apparatus and Obama has a tough road to hoe anytime he battles against that apparatus in a large state. It's well organized and entrenched.
As soon as it becomes abundantly clear to everyone, and the press reports it so, that Obama is the overall victor, the Clinton hold on that apparatus is destroyed. The keys to the machine have to be handed over to team Obama at some point in order to win the general, and that's the only thing holding Clinton in this race. She's still got the keys.
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Party insiders don't want to make it look like they're kicking the Clintons out the door, but Hillary refuses to back down on her own. Problem is, as long as she does not back down, loyal Clinton hold overs will still use the party apparatus to support her. Either the heavy hitters are going to have to publicly come out saying the Clinton tactics are threatening the party and she must step down (which will never happen), or Obama will have to trounce her in a primary the press decides is important. But of course, it's difficult to trounce her in Democratic strongholds when she has so much institutional support.
Here's hoping Obama wins Indiana by a bit and trounces her in NC, so we can move on.
Either way, once he's declared the winner, she is toxic waste for the general. No way she is the VP.
April 22, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Noseeum, it is clear that she "refuses to back down on her own." I guess my question is, why? I refuse to buy the argument that she is simply delusional and thinks she will win, or that she wants Obama to lose so that she can win in four years...my only answer is that she wants to be VP, and looking at the polls it is beginning to look like Obama will be forced to pick her if he wants her supporters to vote for him.
April 22, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
And how well did running as Kerry's VP candidate serve John Edwards this year?
She runs in 2012, she's going to struggle to break into double digits.
April 22, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is that small little detail: Kerry did not win.
April 22, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's hoping Obama will not, and she thinks she can do a run in 2012.
And I suspect she would be a true liability in the general, even second on the ticket.
Gov. Sibelius, maybe? Gov. Napolitano?
I am represented by a woman in the House and one in the Senate. I like both of them, it's Clinton herself (not her gender) I have problems with - as, I suspect, do many.
April 23, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
montrosidad, I just can't see Hillary wanting the VP. 8 years from now, she'll be pretty old. Almost as old as McCain. She's a woman, and she's not a war hero. She knows this better than any of us. Her window of opportunity may possibly extend to 2012, but there's no way she has a chance in 2016.
She's only got 3 chances to become pres:
1. Destroy Obama, get nomination due to super dels begging her to come to the rescue.
2. Destroy Obama's chances of winning, wait until 2012
3. Force VP, have some unfortunate accident befell Obama next February.
Number 1 and 3 are not bloody likely.
Number 1 is nearly impossible. First off, the negatives left over from her campaign of destruction would kill her chances to win the general, even if she got the nomination. Second, Obama's survived the worst. I can't see much else coming out. She's beginning to look worse and worse the more she hammers on the same old issues. So even if she manages to destroy him, her chances of winning will likely go down with the ship.
The only one that makes any sense whatsoever, to someone as smart and calculating as Hillary, is number 2. She knows the odds better than any of us. She knows she can't win this.
I don't see why you would give her enough credit not to think she'd sacrifice a Democratic presidency to increase her own chances in 4 years. Why do you refuse to believe that? You think McCain is going to even have all of his faculties in 4 years? Economy is in the gutter, McCain will keep us in Iraq. Easy to convince herself that 2012 will be an easy win.
As long as she can rationalize that this is for the long term good of the party, she could do it. And she can easily rationalize that by saying Obama has been disloyal. He did not wait his turn. He did not support the party's presumptive nominee, so it's Obama that's breaking up the party, not her. Plenty of people on TPM think Obama's dangerous for the party. Why couldn't Hillary think that?
If Obama loses the general, he's damaged goods and the Clinton's become the saviors of the party in 4 years. It's not a stretch. And as an Obama supporter, I don't even fault Hillary for this line of thinking. This is who she is. When you've managed to convince yourself beyond a shadow of a doubt that this country needs you as president, there's no lengths you won't go to because you believe with every muscle in your body that the country will be better off with you, whether the country knows it or not. See Nixon, Richard or Bush, George W.
Who I fault is the people of this country who have not woken up to who these people really are yet. How a candidate like Hillary can still appeal to so many people, after Nixon, after GW, just shocks me to no end. Nixon was a policy wonk too. When will people learn? These types don't hide who they are from us. We just refuse to believe it. No one's been more honest with the American people about who she is then Hillary. If we buy into it again, it's our own damn fault, not hers.
April 22, 2008 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Noseeum, you don't know how much i appreciate your comments, thank you. I guess i'm just too new to this process. I just refuse to believe that she would sacrifice, or "invest" i guess, 4 more years of this, even if she thinks that over the long run it is bad for the party. Over the long run is over the long run, now is now. The country needs a change now...in four years it may be too late. Frankly, it might be too late now to try to turn around all of the bullsh*t that's going on right now. I guess i just hope that you're wrong even though deep inside something tells me that you may be right. Thanks again for your comments. Go Obama!
April 23, 2008 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
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