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How Many of You Dislike/Despise/Loathe Clinton More Than McCain

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I'm a Clinton supporter who wondered why so many (28% sticks out) of my cohort indicated they wouldn't support Obama in the general election. Obama is so clearly superior to McCain to me, I just cannot understand their dissonance. Similarly, I've heard so much Clinton hating on this and other liberal blogsites. I think there is a good 20% or more of the Obama supporters who really despise her worse than McCain.

I'd like to hear why. The only rule is that you cannot let your Obama worship get in the way. You can't use Clinton's criticism's of your favorite candidate against her. That's not a good enough reason to let the Fascist stay in power.

It's just McCain or Clinton and the next 4 to 8 years are on the line. Why would you support McCain (for a progressive to not vote, is defacto voting for the other side)?


Comments (41)

I hate Clinton more then McCain on personal issues, and i hate McCain more then Clinton on policy issues. Either way ill be voting for Obama in the fall.

You can't use Clinton's criticism's of your favorite candidate against her.

Why not? McCain is a Republican, and he's "just doing his job" when he attacks Obama. It's to be expected. Clinton, on the other hand, doesn't have that excuse.


You can't use Clinton's criticism's of your favorite candidate against her.

If it weren't for that, I'd probably like her more than McCain. However, because of that, I like her less. As Musgrove states, however, it's at a personal level. I'd much rather have a beer (or boilermaker) with McCain than with Clinton. However, if it came down to it (and I don't think it will), I'd much rather have Clinton as president than McCain.

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I'm an AfrAm male who's been an Obama supporter from the start, but thought it was equally great that Clinton was running and I was an admiere of her. I also didn't believe that Obama would get this far. But the turning point was the SC primaries. Say what you want, but I think this was the turning point for a lot of African Americans. It was in my family...

If she were to win, I would still vote for her. My vote, though, would be for the lesser of two evils as opposed to a candidate that I actually like.

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I didn't finish my thought from the first paragraph, but most of my family says the same thing about the SC primary. They really liked Bill Clinton and they were hurt by his antics in SC...

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I intend to vote for Obama, also.

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Loathe is not a strong enough word, but I loathe the Clintons more than McCain because they are trying to demolish the only realistic hope of changing our nation's totally corrupt system of governance. That hope, in our sad little universe, is wresting the Democratic Party from the grip of the DLC. God knows I can't blame John McCain for the DLC. Besides, Hillary makes up stuff, and I'm pretty sure she's a bitch, and I hate that.

I'm a lot madder at Clinton than McCain right now because, first, McCain's appointed role is to hurt the Democrats and hers isn't, but she's doing it; and second, frankly, just because she's the opponent right now. I'm saving my anti-McCain feelings until after HRC concedes. But I know that even that goddamn Clinton will be way better for the country than McBush, so no question who I would vote for between her and him. Which isn't going to be an issue, unless they're both alive and running in 2016.

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Someone on the other side would interpret this as a hero-worship effect.

Definitely a hero/villain dynamic at work in my fevered brain, but there's a value to that when you're trying to focus energies. When I call voters in PA to encourage them to vote for Obama it's energizing to see Clinton as the main opponent. All that Hillary-resentment will shift toward the GOP when the time is right. I think that'll be true of most Dems on both sides the of the argument.

A potentially good question, flawed by the insulting/biased manner in which it was asked.

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Why don't I like Hillary Clinton?

1. Instead of running on her own record as senator, she's running on her husband's record. Have you heard Bill when he gives speeches for her? Talking about how great HE was, so that's why we should elect her? Why? Should I apply for a job as a doctor, even though I have no medical degree or experience practicing medicine but think listening to him talk about surgery at the dinner table, and having more than an average working knowledge of disease makes me qualified?

2. She runs on her husband's record, except when it's not to her benefit. Her defense on Nafta is she wasn't president and she doesn't agree with him. But, she's running for president on his record. Shouldn't then she be responsible for his ENTIRE record, including his lying, his sexual harrassment, his trade deals?

3. She stole from the White House.

4. She's destroying the Democratic Party for her personal gain and running as a Republican in order to try to get her way.

5. She's a liar.

6. She has no moral integrity.


I'm not a super fan of Obama's. But he's way better than she is.

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This was a question about McCain versus Clinton.

Similarly, I've heard so much Clinton hating on this and other liberal blogsites. I think there is a good 20% or more of the Obama supporters who really despise her worse than McCain.

I am uncertain there is a direct connection here. I have seen numbers similar to this indicating voters who will not cast ballots for Senator Clinton under any circumstances. Not really clear how that directly translates into "...despise her worse than McCain."

To answer the question of why some voters refuse to ever cast a ballot for Senator Clinton, I suspect there are several primary reasons and a few less significant ones. For me personally, the two big ones: 1) Her voting record 2) What appears to me at least to be a consistent problem with falsehoods (though you may disagree), which has reduced to nearly zero any trust I may have had with her.

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Does this mean you will vote for McCain or not vote at all?

I think Clinton will make a better candidate than Obama, but I'm going to vote for him if he gets the nomination.

Don't you, as an Obama supporter, wonder why 28% of Clinton supporters say they won't vote for him? I do. What's are they thinking?

Well polls also say 25 percent of Clinton supporters think Obama is a Muslim, just saying.

Fat chance to Mus-Hussein-Grove. No way 25% of Clinton supporters think Obama's a muslim.

I bet 75% of Obama supporters think Clinton actually embodies all that bashing she gets.

I definitely despise McCain, whereas with Clinton it's more of a distaste/disappointment. I think it's important that you also ask this of Clinton supporters re. Obama, though -- the statistics were about equal for both sides, weren't they? Don't let your Clinton worship get in the way of your answer. ;)

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I agree. I would certainly love to see an Obama supporter ask the mirror image of this.

Since I'm going to vote for Obama, I'm not in the despise category, but I would love to read the comments.

I'm mad as hell at what Hillary is doing right now.

Not only is she working overtime hardening voters against Sen. Obama, her behavior is turning housands of people off the Democratic party, people that had given up on politics, but that because of Sen. Obama came under the tent and dared to believe that the Democratic party could be once again the party of ideals, the party of the people, the party that doesn't just play politics to win at all costs.

That the DNC leaders are letting this go one ONE MORE SECOND is reprehensible.

I'm mad as hell that Hillary's whole campaign strategy involves destroying everything that Sen. Obama has worked for more than a year to do.

And you just have to see this:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1jm.htm

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Are you saying that Pennsylvania and the other states shouldn't have a right to vote. How can the DLC end it before they vote?

I didn't say end the contest. I meant end the smearing and division within the party. Hillary should keep campaigning, but there HAS to be a line in the sand, where we don't start behaving like republicans.

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I agree. It would be better if they didn't go negative, but both sides are doing it.

So the Annie Oakley thing wasn't a smear? Today, he made fun of her drinking.

Now the gun story and the drinking thing and the "people go to church and own guns out of bitterness" are all fair game to me. It's just good politics. And both sides are playing to win.

I do think though that it was incredibly stupid of the Democratic Party to have this huge six week gap. That's not either candidates fault, though.

Really, it's not her fault that she has launched the "cling to guns and religion" ad in PA today? That's she sowing the seeds of division in the party? How is it not her fault?

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Today, Obama accused Clinton of playing out of the Karl Rove playbook. Isn't that negative campaigning? Tearing down your opponent which only helps the repubs?

Probably the same way they've ended it every election year that didn't end in a brokered convention?

Though I've said in the past and I'll say again: I would support Clinton staying in the race as long as she liked if she would focus on promoting Democratic ideals and attacking McCain. Unfortuantely, that hasn't been her strategy thus far.

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I think the entire debate is interesting but irrelevant.

The polls are simply not accurate. I would venture to guess there are a great number of BO/HC supporters that would indeed shift to the other democrat, BUT STILL claim they would vote McCain simply because they want to have it become an issue or factor in the election.

Time heals a lot of wounds, and democratic in-fighting won't be nearly as bad half a year from now.

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Let's hope you're right.

I think a lot of Obama supporters think that she's wounding him, though. Listen to all the vitriolic posts on this site.

It's rare, but not unknown for Clinton supporters to make inane or childish posts. Clinton supporters occasionally write intensely, viciously hateful and vitriolic posts.

But Obama supporters do it all the time. You can find both types in every single thread, on every election oriented topic.

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Those of us who have watched the Clintons and the twisted reality of their effect on politics for 15 or more years have real reasons to be bitter towards them -- that has nothing to do with Obama.

One thing you may not be aware of is that the Clintons have a much stronger Bush connection than they let on. Google: Bush-Clinton. I am sure you will be surprised (If you haven't already had a gander).

Of course some people will believe everything they read, which we know is not wise. But we have to remember that usually... "truth is stranger than fiction."

I used to have a pet named Hillary, And I voted for Bill twice. I was proud of all that. But now the very site of her is uncomfortable for me, mostly because of the lowest common denominator politics she is playing, including the intentional 'misspeaking', and the I'm better than you finger-wagging, etc.

Before this election, I had no idea what a bad sport she is. She always seemed so charming as first lady. Shame she seems to be an entirely different person than she was then. Or maybe she hid who she was before. That's the problem: Who is she anymore? It's upsetting for those of us who used to be Hillary fans. It feels like a very deep betrayal.

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I guess you were so disgusted with the democratic party machinery that you voted for Bush both times? For Republicans in Congressional elections?

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Hate is a very powerful/extreme word. I don't personally know Mrs. Clinton, so I can't hate her. But I dislike her politics enough to know that I would not vote for her in the general election. I would vote Democratic down the line, but would leave the top spot blank.

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So why do you think 28% of Clinton supporters say they won't vote for Obama? What do you think their argument is?

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This could be a long post but I'll try to cut to the chase. Watching Hillary's campaign gives me good insight into who she is and how she would govern. That's why I could never vote for her. Her failure as POTUS would make it that much harder for any Democrat to follow her, while McCain's failure will reflect on Republicans and maybe in 2012 that will help Dem's.

I'm still full of hope and Kool-Aid, and expect to vote for Obama and see him sworn in.

When you act like a Republican, expect to get treated as one.

At the moment, I don't loathe either. This will probably change in the next ten minutes, but for now, I'm content.

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redstate: "It's rare, but not unknown for Clinton supporters to make inane or childish posts. Clinton supporters occasionally write intensely, viciously hateful and vitriolic posts. But Obama supporters do it all the time. You can find both types in every single thread, on every election oriented topic."

While it may be true that Clinton gets trashed here more than Obama does, it's equally true that there are entire sites -- prominent sites that used to feature thoughtful content on a variety of lefty issues -- that are now devoted entirely to trashing Obama in the most vitriolic way. TaylorMarsh.com and No Quarter to name just two.

I'm voting for whichever Dem wins. Either would be better than McCain due to his policies. But I have lost tons of respect for the Clintons (not that I had a whole lot to begin with, even though I voted for BC twice) due to their Rovian campaign tactics. Someone above nailed it -- screw the DLC and their GOP-light agenda and political style. We have a once in a generation opportunity to shift the electoral dynamic, and it pains me to see that damaged.

I am disappointed in Clinton for keeping Penn around and a number of her missteps and, yes, lies. I have been very disappointed in Bill.

I'm disappointed in Obama for his passive- aggressive attacks on Clinton that make it look like she's the attacker. It's rather subtle, I suppose, but to me it's extremely obvious. I think he has been able to portray her in the worst terms via these underhanded psychological attacks that usually look like mild-mannered statements.

So I have no illusions that Obama is "above the fray." The real liberals who have stood for principle have been Kucinich, Edwards and maybe Dodd. Both Clinton and Obama are corporatist politicians, period. Both of them have tons of money from Wall Street, and he has tons from ADM, a huge global corporation that is backing biofuels that are worse for the environment than gasoline.

But I will support whomever is the nominee because nothing would be worse than another 4-8 years of warmongering Republicans.

Clinton or Obama supporters who won't vote or won't vote for the Dem candidate regardless are handing the next eight years to the Republicans. Some may not think it could get worse than it is, but they are wrong.

Fat chance.

I would like to see a moratorium on posts speculating about how Obama supporters would react if Clinton is the nominee. She will not be the nominee. It's not a productive topic and only inflames the divisions that exist within the Party.

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I dislike Hillary more than McCain because I really don't believe what she says. I think (much like Bush did) she'll make a bunch of campaign promises then do something else once in office... then hold press conferences to explain her change in position.

I think her policy strategy can be summarized like this - It's much easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Although I think McCain is fundamentally wrong on so many issues, I think he can be trusted to follow through with what he says - that makes the fight fair.

As for Hillary - it's impossible to have a fair debate/fight on anything if you don't REALLY know what your opponent intends. I do believe she is competent, (although her campaign has shown otherwise) I just don't think that's enough.

Finally, I don't believe the U.S. Presidency should be a royal succession - G.W. Bush proved that - just because you are related to a president doesn't mean you should be one too. I think there is a two-term limit for a reason, and having an ex-president return to the white house as first spouse - isn't an experiment I think we should undertake.

325 million people in this country, we need to choose someone other than a relative of an ex-president.

Good question on either side, RSL--why would either Obama or Clinton supporters vote for McCain (or, almost as bad, simply not vote) rather than vote for the other side in November? I honestly hope that the majority of people saying so will overcome their upset in time to keep American from another four years of Republican rule. I hope I could, should Clinton win, manage it. Some days I don't think I could. I suspect that were Clinton to get the nomination, especially if she did so by convincing superdelegates to overturn the delegate and popular vote lead Obama has, the only way I could vote for her would be if Obama made a damn good reason to do so--not because I "worship" him (that really is an insulting word choice) but because in my mind he would be the wronged party, even more than the Democrats, and thus have the most credibility in any follow-up argument.

So, do I hate Clinton more than McCain? Right now I do. That doesn't mean I'd vote for McCain--as others have said, I hate his policies more than I hate hers. But hatred isn't cerebral, it's emotional.

I could list all the (IMHO) divisive or entitled comments that have soured me toward her across the last few months, but you've probably had more than enough of that. A huge reason I strongly dislike her is because I believe she cheats--if not the letter, then the spirit of the rules--as in FL and MI, when she didn't complain about them not being seated until she was losing. The Clinton campaign also disputed the Texas "two-step" primary/caucus mix, after it became clear that she might lose because of the caucus side, despite that her campaign manager had helped set up the system almost two decades earlier.

I had a personal experience with this play-the-rules the Texas senatorial district conventions last month. The last day to present challenges to the precincts was Wednesday, and Clinton supporters brought a huge stack of challenges over at 5 pm on Wednesday. Then on Saturday, the day of the conventions, our district of less than 200 precincts had 87 challenged precincts to go through before we could get to business. A Clinton supporter moved that, because resolving these challenges would take hours, we simply split the delegates of the challenged precincts right down the middle; 50% for Clinton and 50% for Obama. Luckily, this motion got voted down. Twice.

So instead of being done by 2:30, as planned, we finished at 7:30--and were one of the earlier conventions to finish, as it turns out this tactic had been used across the state. In the end, Obama got a third more delegates than Clinton, and the caucuses turned Texas from a Clinton to an Obama state. But I was there. I saw her brand of politics in action. And I am not sure I want to be a part of a campaign that tries to "win" in that way.

But the main reason I currently hate her is because I am so deeply disappointed in her. She's the first woman presidential candidate to have had a real shot, and I do hope I live to see a woman president someday--but not this one. She has proven herself willing to tear the party apart with negativity (and I do think the Obama side has been relatively quiet about the Tuzla and Columbia issues) just to show that she's a fighter, and I'm tired of leaders who fight for the sake of fighting. We need some peace.

Those whom we could most easily love are, in the end, easiest to hate.

McCain is a non-issue to my emotions unless he becomes president.

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