Reader Posts

« previous | TPM CAFÉ READER POSTS HOME | next »

Hardball: Ryan Lizza Tries To Talk About Journalistic Responsibility For Truth, Others Laugh At Him

I think my habit of having Hardball on in the background has come to an end.  I liked to hear what the Enemy, the Conventional Wisdom crowd is talking about.

But they just reached a new low today. Chris Matthews was flogging the "Wright issue" the entire show, his "case" basically consisting of an entirely new twist on the "all you n--s look the same to me" bit when he kept basically insisting that Obama and Wright are the somehow the same person "to some voters." This is probably worth a post in and of itself but what really struck me is that when Ryan Lizza (one of the better journalists out there today) attempted at least three times to discuss the responsibility of the media to ensure than any such misconceptions are not generated and/or corrected but each time he was dismissed by Matthews, Jill Zuckman and even  Johnathan Capeheart--ultimately with them laughing at the adorable naivete of the youngster. Apparently, according to Zuckman, ensuring that truth and facts receive more (or any) prominence than the various lies and misrepresentations "is a bit high-minded" since "this is politics, after all."

Chris Matthews thinks it is not his responsibility to address the truth. He thinks supposedly abstractly discussing how effectively lies and misinformation work on their victims is a  valuable contribution to the society. With the exception, of course, of the times that he gets personally offended by something and then attributing his feelings to "the American public" assaults any passer-by about it.

I wrote a little letter to each of the four and to their employers.


Comments (51)

My favorite part was when David Axelrod corrects his Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde literary analogy to Wright and Obama. I laughed when Axelrod had to tell him that his analogy didn't work because Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde was really the same person in Robert Louis Stevenson's book. Chris Matthews, not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

Hardball was my one MSM allowance. I could endure the chaff for the few morsels of wheat, but yesterday was over the top. He has had some real loser programs lately. I was very disappointed.

I found it amusing that Matthews started off really hot about the Wright. By the end, after working over Axelrod, Matthews looked a bit dejected. His mood had clearly changed. I couldn't help but wonder if he had recognized his show-long tantrum over this twaddle. He shouldn't be surprised that his composure assumes the character of the company he keeps on the show.

SCREWED THE POOCH UNTIL HE WERE DEAD

Tweety was just reacting to Olbermans head that had spun off and landed under his desk where Maddow was furiously administering CPR and screaming "You jagoff! I can't ambush Hillary all by myself!"

NEXT TWEETY MANCRUSH: "Gomer" Huckabee

VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE
NOT YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE

[Off-topic alert!]

Hey, roo_P, there was a discussion earlier about your blog post in which you took on the 50 Obama lies garbage. The list is circulating by email in NC, it seems. We were trying to link to your blog post from April 8, but it's no longer in your TPM blog. No idea why that's the case, but would you mind posting it again so it's back on board? It was an excellent post and, while we may never see the comments people left, it would be a shame if it disappeared from TPM permanently. Thanks!

Interesting, the file is no longer available on the TPM servers unlike other reader blogs from that time (I know because that is how I found the link.) This is the correct URL:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/that-list.php

Before anyone screams conspiracy, I suspect it might be an issue of pruning posts over a certain length instead of archiving them. I cannot seem to access some of the archive pages even through some of the more reliable cache sites and the archive pages here have incorrect permissions for viewing.

I can retrieve and repost the posted version later today but the updated master has to wait until the boss stops paying me to spend time in Europe :)

...the updated master has to wait until the boss stops paying me to spend time in Europe.

Oh, the horror! Being paid to spend time in Europe! :-p

Thanks, roo_P!

avatar

"...has to wait until the boss stops paying me to spend time in Europe"

How much do they have to pay you to come back?

Chris Mathews must have lost the tingle in his leg for Obama, because he was basically putting out a philosophy of "they all look the same" racism.

he's gay?

that's meaning of the hard and the ball?

flogging the "Wright issue" the entire show

Sort of like how it has dominated Reader Blogs here day after day after day?

I wrote a little letter to each of the four and to their employers.

Which they will file in the circular file because the ratings are up, they are giving the readers of blogs (their audience, too, now) what they want.

You might want to read Josh Marshall on force-feeding spinach, it's titled "What We Do," and it refers to this site, though it could apply to Hardball just as well. You might also want to check out the number of views of Wright-related clips on YouTube.

When you find a place where they like spinach, do let me know, I'm looking for that on the net.

I agree strongly with this post, and artappraiser.

The editorials and blogosphere have to help Obama move the narrative past this. Shouty shows live for this shit, and it's sick.

It also turns Matthews, one of Obama's biggest fans, into a malign force, because he's a big fan of whatever makes people watch, especially shouting about race and gender. It's gross.

All these guys are concerned about ratings. Matthews was really in trouble with the Clinton camp, and backed off Obama fast under pressure.

He was supportive after the Wright speech. I think he was personally offended by the "elitist" remarks.


If all true, then what happened to him?

Matthews isn't a policy guy or truth guy, he talks about the politics of everything and the perceptions those things generate. He wants to talk about how everything "plays in Peoria." The truth of the matter isn't so important to him as how these things affect polls and the election. Once you realize that, it's easier to digest his show.

Where exactly is this "Peoria"?

Illinois. Supposedly it represents the classic political myth of the quinessential middle class. American pie type stuff is supposedly located there.

avatar

I think Matthews is quite weak minded. He is painfully insipid in his remarks. But I applaud him for devoting his show to Wright. The last thing I wanted to hear about was the 44 troop deaths in Iraq this month. After all, they are an all-volunteer army, as Bush and co. repeatedly point out. They are just toy soldiers in a romantic action flick. It's so cute!! Just like Rambo! Because they volunteered, their deaths do not trouble me, and they shouldn't trouble anyone else either. It's all good.

Weak-minded is a great way to put it.

Which is why, finally, Obama might want to cut himself off from Rev. Wright. I personally find nothing wrong with Rev. Wright and I find his words to be absolutely tame compared to those of Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle -- both of whom I find to be insightful, sharp, hilarious and achingly truthful.

The Wright Controversy is kind of like a scab on Obama's finger that never quite heals properly. The media and Hillary and the Republicans keep picking at it and picking at it and it keeps bleeding. Eventually that wound could possibly get infected and that infection is going to spread up his arm and kill him. Better to bite down on a stick, take a swig of Crown Royal, and chop that finger off. Because an Obama with 9-fingers is still leaps and bounds better than a Hillary or McCain with 10 fingers.

In the end, this might just be one of those "ends justifies the means" arguments. Yes, it might be wrong for Obama to cut himself off from Rev. Wright completely, but it might be more wrong for this country if he were to lose this Presidential race. Especially if Obama could do it with Rev.Wright's blessing, which by Wright's words, it seems like Obama might have.

Despite whatever temporary pain Obama inflicts upon his church during his campaign, if Obama gets elected into office, I have no doubt it would be easy to heal those wounds and in the end his presidency would actually prove to be an extraordinary boon to his church.

Like the analogy of the vaccination -- sometimes its worth it to bear the temporary pain of that sharp little needle prick because of the lasting benefits in the long-run.

The link was a good recommendation. I do prefer C-SPAN because I can decide for myself whether I like or dislike something someone says or if I need to see members of Congress doing there job as policy makers. I wish I could see and know the influence peddlers behind the scenes.

avatar

I saw this too and am not too ashamed to admit that I spent a majority of the segment swearing at the television.

For me, this was compounded by First Read's comment that "Because of Jeremiah Wright remaining in the news, not that much attention has been paid to Clinton’s recent comments regarding Iran and the Middle East."

The complete lack of recognition, or media metacognition, that the MSM creates the narrative makes my blood boil. Hello IDIOTS, you are the people keeping Jeremiah Wright in the news. YOU are the ones not disseminating that Hillary advocates nuking Iran if they threaten Israel. YOU are the ones not disseminating McCain's advocacy for reinstating the Cold War.

I guess I'm not old enough to know if this is politics and press as usual, but, as an information literacy librarian (for those who do not do library speak this is a librarian who teaches - or tries to teach - students to be savvy consumers of information) it is EXTREMELY distressing!

avatar

Matthews is a shill for the Obama campaign plain and simple. Ditto all of NBC. Why else do you think GE has invested so heavily in Obama?

avatar

Because he's the front runner? Smart money's on Obama, Intrade 83%. I suggest you buy.

Thanks for the well sourced "fact" though. If you post crap enough times a viral rumor gets its wings, so keep trying.

LOL

What color is the sky on your planet?

Here on earth, its blue.

...even Johnathan Capeheart.

You sound almost disappointed about Capeheart. I have noticed for some time that Capeheart rarely calls for Obama and usually calls for Clinton.

That Postie is sooo in the bag for Clinton.

Capeheart rates OK on my fairness scale usually but he is distinctly more of a newspaperman than some of the other young(er) MSM journos.

Roo, your first mistake was to not have turned off Hardball and MSNBC in general a couple weeks ago, like I did.

That said, I agree with your post. Seems the old veterans are the ones who could learn from the youngster (sound familiar?), and I like that you've written to all concerned. I tried that after the ABC "debate" and actually got a personal reply from an ABC News VP, in which he defended the trainwreck that was Gibson and Stephanopolous and, to prove how self-aware they all are at ABC, he attached the transcript from the ABC news the day after, in which they reported on their own controvery. So, should you get any personal responses, don't be surprised if they are eerily similar to what I got from ABC.

One must always at least be aware of what the enemy is currently doing if one is incapable of knowing what the enemy is going to do next.

avatar

The NYT, the Wash Post, et all, dont get their circulation and reputation from gutter political coverage. You may argue that gutter is what sells, but its really not just that- it is: thats what is EASY and safe to sell, and what my bosses WANT to sell. Talking bad about the GOP has consequences. Having real analysis requires skill. Risk.

Its easier and safer to be a distributor of news. These people take the messages and sound bites and deliver them to us, washing hands of responsibility and ignoring the effect they have on the discourse. Im waiting for someone (on TV mainly) to wake up and realize a good number of us want spinach, and serving that audience would be good business, its an unserved market opportunity.

A good point about TPM. A note that JM says there are good ways and bad ways to cover the horse race. I enjoy the update on polling and stupid and dangerous gaffes, but this site is great because (a) he adds analysis to the discussion on significant gutter folly and substantive horse race issue- like policy, a sign of the good way(real analysis, look it up Mr. Matthews), and (b) reports real news, and often creates it. They deserved the accolades about the attorney scandal, and I hope that reinforced or increased visits.

This is a great point.

The reason we don't get truthful and thoughtful analysis is because that is not what they are selling. The major media networks decided a long time ago to feed us Spinachique - All the appearance of spinach without all those pesky vitamins and minerals.

We are currently in a battle for this country between the progressive blogosphere, our extended off-line networks and the Corporate Propaganda Machine. That is the battle we are in this year. What we see on cable are the last, dying throes of a dying medium. Kind of like 8 track cassettes.

I happen to think we are winning, which why Barack is winning as well.

avatar

Absolutely--thanks for saving my fingers some time.

avatar

Great post! I stopped watching Matthews a few weeks ago for the same reason.

The best thing you can do is exactly what you did. Write a letter explaining why you are not watching anymore, and actually stop watching.

I've watched a lot of Hardball and the thing that always bothered me about Mathews and many of the other Washington political types is that they love the game of politics and respect those who are good at playing the game.

So end up with Mathews telling Ryan Lizza last night that facts and journalistic integrity don't matter in this case because in politics you can combine two different people into one (Obama & Wright) even if that is complete BS. It's just politics.

Unlike our lovely friends over at Fox who will say anything for money; I think that Mathews let's his very real love of the political game blind him from the real world impacts that these lies and gamesmanship have on the American people.

avatar

Which is exactly what Jon Stewart was trying to tell Matthews when Matthews went on the Daily Show to promote his book.

Stewart's diss of Matthews -- captured in the NYT's wonderful piece on him in the Sunday Mag a few weeks ago -- just cuts the heart out of Matthews.

It is a perfect, and perfectly earned, piece of verbal annihilation.

Hardball was awful last night, I wanted to scream every time I heard Matthews call Wright Obama's "albatross", and I felt sorry for Chris Lizza as he tried to do his part for journalistic ethics (good luck). I also agree Axelrod put Matthews in his place a bit, and even had him agreeing that he has spent too much time on the Wright issue earlier in the show....I also had the misfortune to turn on Morning Joe today, and catch Scarborough in a monologue asking "who is Barack Obama, and how does he really feel about America?....Because we really just don't know.".

Seriously. Are you fucking kidding me?

The guy has been campaigning for months, he has written two books about his life and his ideas, and you are asking who he is??? This is so shameless and absurd, it makes me crazy. Scarborough's racism/xenophobia/nastiness is thinly veiled, at best. I try and tune out these idiots, but I just have to know what they will say next, it is like watching a car wreck.

avatar

It was one of the funniest shows I have seen it awhile, when Matthews reminded Ryan about the piece he had just wrote that was a hit piece on Hillary that was just what he was crying about, it looked like he ate a lemon. It was ok to do a hit job on Hillary but not have guilt by association done to Obama was not fair. Karma she a bitch.

avatar

Are you sure you didn't mean Hillary, instead of that Karma?

avatar


Thank you for this post!!! I too have a Hardball habit that I'm about to break and I watched that show thinking, when Lizza began stating his very important moral case, that the murky MSM tide was about to turn (on one show, anyway.)
For a moment, Matthews actually listened,-- a miracle in itself. Lizza's call for fairness and moderation and journalistic responsibility was sufficiently compelling and novel that all Matthew could do was nod.
He was saved by his other guests -- Jill Suckman and Jonathan Capeheart -- who require Matthews good graces to get their oh-so-valuable air time. (To wit: Chris mentioned that Jill had been telling him about the slew emails and attention she gets from being on television.)
So the newly famous Jill chimed in with her "it's politics" remark and the relief on the set was palpable.
Whew!you could hear them thinking, thank God we don't have to let ethics or decency mitigate the fun we're having with this Wright thing.
As for Scarborough and the egregiously stupid Mika -- it's McCarthyism all over again. I agree with Dorn 76 -- it is like watching a car wreck -- only problem is that the car they're driving off the cliff is our car ...

avatar

Cable news has lost me as well. They aren't a news program at all anymore, they are now mostly commentary with perhaps a minute or two of (stale)news at the top of the hour. Who wants to passively watch commentary when you can go on line and participate as well?

avatar

I have two comments, ABC is a dying network, especially the news, I saw part of the view to day and they had NEWT of all people on, the man who left his dying wife for another woman, and the reasons they are bring on all of FOX NEWS people because their rating are falling fast, and this is the only place they have to go to get viewers, now, why is everyone afraid to ask JOE SCARBOROUGH and the dead intern found in his congressional office, and why he left office right after that, we need to start asking hard questions to those MSM messangers bring US all this BS.

"He thinks supposedly abstractly discussing how effectively lies and misinformation work on their victims is a valuable contribution to the society."

This is exactly right. And by discussing them seriously, he gives credence to the fluff as being a substantive issue. You can't discuss anything in politics without giving it subjective truth value.

The Scarborough's and Fox guys are all going with the guilty until proven innocent approach with Obama's "feelings about America". They are basically just saying "how should I know if he is really a Muslim who hates white America"? And then they just piece together tiny snippets of information that together support their case while ignoring the tremendous amount of information that is available that contradicts this view including two books and 12 years of public service.

I'm so tired of any criticism of American foreign policy being cast has anti-American, American Hating, or blame America first attitudes by the right wing. It is 100% necessary to understand how our actions or even the perception of our actions contributes to negative feelings & actions toward us. The real "Blame America" crowd are the wackos who think that we attacked ourselves on 9/11; not the responsible leaders who want to learn from our history so that we do not repeat the actions that contributed to the hatred used by terrorists against us.

avatar

you rock

Perhaps Chris Matthews appears a closet "Bitter White" who seems to relate a little too well to the fear of an end to the white dominance.

Apartheid Lite?

avatar

Well said.
Matthews was far more supported and 'balanced' about Obama until the PA primaries. Matthews is from PA and he started pushing the Obama lost theworking man white vote basedon his knowing folks in PA, as that is his home state.

Matthews is the quintessential ethnic blue collar voter, that is his personal demographic that he grew up in. He bought into the whole 'wuss' thing when Obama bowled badly. He bought into rendell's 'there are people in my state not willing to vote for a black candidate'. Matthews identified with all of these sentiments, including the Rev. Wright 'god damn America' comment.

Matthews didn't bother to highlight that Eddie Rendell when to the Nation of Islam and praised Farrakhan when he ran for Governor. He never emphasized that association with Rendell being a Clinton surrogate YET he played up Wright's association with Farrakhan to link Obama with him. Hillary was not once linked with Farrakhan through all the endorsement of Rendell who considers Farrakhan a stalwart member of the black community. Hillary was not demanded to denouch and reject Rendell for his association with Farrakhan.

Matthews is angry about the power of the ethnicwhite vote being diminished and as a result he has tilted squarely off Obama using Wright as the excuse just like all the soft bigotry of the ethnicwhite voters who use Wright as the reason not to vote for Obama. Even Andrea Mitchell said on MTP with Russert this pass Sunday that when she was on the ground in Philly she picked up a real racial undertone from the voters.

So this is what bigotry looks like when it is being masked and hidden behind the dashiki of Rev. Wright.

avatar

Thank you for posting this. I caught a brief segment of this exchange yesterday and was encouraged that there are actual REAL journalists out there who believe in facts and truth rather than spin, propaganda and Clinton talking points.

Alas, how sad that Ryan Lizza is in the minority, a lone wolf actually, and what passes for journalism today are the voices of tweety, Buchanan et al.

*sigh*

avatar

I am beginning to think that this entire Wright controversy is the Clinton's doing. Huckabee said it last night that Wright's behavior now with this PR blitz is such that he could be on Hillary's expense account.

I reflected on that and recalled how the Clintons had been trying to break the Wright story for awhile with hints in Feb 2008 (Bob Novak) and they could not get the press to bite. Then back in March there was this article.. money quote:
"Opponents of Obama have constantly pushed reporters to write about the minister, which these critics considered a ticking time bomb for his campaign.
On Feb. 20, after a fiery guest sermon by Wright in Little Rock, the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette ran an article that said: “On Tuesday, Wright criticized the U.S. invasion of Iraq and likened the insurgents to the Israelites under Babylonian rule.”
At 9:20 that morning, Obama opponents were already trying to get Politico to link to the story"

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9051.html

I recall that when I read that I thought..hmmm, how coincidental is it that Rev Wright had a speaking engagement in Little Rock and that Gazette lead with a story about how controversial he was. LITTLE ROCK?...c'mon....the Clintons had to go so far as to hook up a speakin engagement and get the ARK paper to write it up in order to put WRight on the NATIONAL press RADAR. More importantly...Wright had to agree to go.

.

I also recalled that Obama is credited with registering 100K voters in IL in 92 to win the state for Bill Clinton and send Mosely Braun to the Senate. I asked myself, given the prominence of Wright's church in Chicago and Obama beng a member of the church, how likely is it that the Clintons sat in the pews at Wrights church right along with the Obamas? Based on Obama' registration drive I believe it was highly likely.More importantly, the Clinons were well aware of Wright' fiery and sometimes controversial oratory.

Then I recalled how the Clintons knew Wright well enough to have invited him to the WH when Bill needed the black ministers to stand behind him during the Lewinsky story. Wright agreed to go.

Then I recalled that the Clintons have 100s of black ministers in their back pockets given their need to court the black vote

Given all these dots...I think that Wright is on the Clinton's payroll just like Calvin O Butts is in Harlem.

This entire Wright controversy is the doing of the Clintons...his having access like he has had to the press these past 3 days is the doing of the Clintons.

In fact, I beleive we are witnessing a confluence of political forces raining down on Obama's candidacy as he is upsetting the national power structure of Democratic presidential politics.

Typically, politicians have to pander to the clergy to get the black vote. Obama does not do that. Typically politicians have to pander to the big money donors to fund their campaign. Obama does not do that. Typically national politicians have to pander to special interests to fund their campaigns. Obama does not do that.

Obama has upset the entire applecart, he is not making any promises to these traditional power groups, not special interests, black clergy nor big money donors. These forces are reigning down and trying to unseat his candidacy.

Obama is not playing by the old washigton textbook rules he is blazing an entire new trail and those powers that be are not going down without a fight.

It is a new politics and he is doing an awesome job and the Clintons have used all their political power, even the black church, in an attempt to take Obama down.

Wright is on their payroll or Bill is responsible for his book deal.

I firmly beleive Wright is a Clinton surrogate.

avatar

You know ... I saw that yesterday and was very disappointed in Matthews. The guy goes with the wind ... one moment Obama is Jesus ... the next Hillary Clinton is a genius political campaigner who looks destined to beat Obama.

I initially started watching him after I thought John Stewart treated him badly on his show (ardent Daily Show fan). but now I understand.

Can someone recommend a decent news show other than matthews. I watch the two Russert shows both those are weekly only. I started watching "News Hour with Jim Lehrer" and that seems really good so far.

Pretty far-fetched. If Wright was a Clinton surrogate she would have used the Reverend much earlier. Even as last resort move, she would have used the Rev. before Pennsylvania because that was her big firewall.

avatar

If you click on the link, you will see that she was trying to use Wright back in February...the press was not biting.

Nothing farfetched about it at all. The Clintons have a long history with Wright. The Clintons also have a long history with the black clergy in just about every state in the union. Democratic Presidential candidates do not win the WH without the black vote.

Wright is on the Clintons payroll.

Post a Comment

Inside Cafe



Cafe Features


October 6-10

Book Cover

October 13-17

Book Cover

October 20-24

Book Cover

November 17-21>

Book Cover

December 1-5

Book Cover





Book Club Archive



Masthead

Editor-in-Chief
Josh Marshall

Site Editor
Lila Shapiro

Intern
Claire Wilcox



Subscribe to TPMCafe's feed.
Subscribe to TPMCafe's reader blog feed.

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address