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Eureka moment
I think the following comment by Collegekid merits a replay:
I just had what was for me the Eureka moment. Here's the difference between the Old Politics and the New Politics, as personified in the first case by Hillary and in the second by Barack:
The old politics is all about the sham of oh-so-showy pretending that you do not understand and could not in a million years agree with any part of what your opponent is saying, that it's harmful, evil, ridiculous, reprehensible. This style is excerptable for sound-bite gotcha attacks. Perfect for Fox News news cycles.
The new politics is taking the chance to try to understand your opponent's discourse and responding with reason, clarification, and even admission that you can say your point better the second and third time you address the issue. Needs the long form, such as extensive re-viewing on YouTube, elsewhere.
The question is, do we want to walk around pretending we don't want to and do not have to try to understand what other people are saying, or can we move to new ways of discussing issues in news cycles?
Posted by Collegekid
April 12, 2008 12:05 PM
Originally at http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/hillary_hits_obamas_small_town.php#comments
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Comments (17)
EXCELLENT post. I *love* this part:
"taking the chance to try to understand your opponent's discourse and responding with reason, clarification, and even admission that you can say your point better the second and third time you address the issue." And I love the point you make, that forums like this one, and like YouTube, allow that more in-depth political style.
April 12, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL: I've just come here after posting a reply to you on your own thread, and see you're the only person to have commented on Collegekid's post. Again, amazing.
At least it's gotten a handful of recommends.
But I'm now I'm wondering for the second time what's up? That is, why there's no more discussion on your thread or this one?
Me, and except for a few short comments here and there, I've had a great time just reading today. Maybe others are doing the same.
April 12, 2008 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
eureka obama just apologized, the new politics cycle just went off its wheel
how is he going to expound and pontificate upon that for which he has to apologize for?
i know logic is hard for you new politics and moments of revelation folks, but please try to get over yourselves, you are not the first legion of overheated partisans to trod the earth
now you obama folks pat each other on the back some more, the train left the station and you are just sitting there in the railway chair homeward bound with a one way ticket to paradise...thank you obama for setting me free, thank you obama
i just love chanting his name...its so religious
April 12, 2008 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you even read the "apology"? I wouldn't be celebrating just yet, he's not backing down, this IS his best case:
"Well look, if there - obviously, if I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that. But the underlying truth of what I said remains, which is simply that people who have seen their way of life upended because of economic distress are frustrated and rightfully so. And I hear it all the time when I visit these communities. People say they feel as if nobody is paying attention or listening to them and that is something - that is one of the reasons I am running for president. I saw this when I first started off as a community organizer and the steel plants had closed, and I was working with churches in communities that had fallen on hard times. And they felt angry and frustrated."
April 12, 2008 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
FreeBubba,
Thanks for bringing us Collegekid's comment. Very impressive! Reading comments like this makes me feel very optimistic about the critical thinking potential and the level of engagement of our young citizens.
April 12, 2008 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Laura,
I think how the younger may evolve during Obama's presidency, along with Obama, will be most interesting and rewarding to see.
April 12, 2008 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean the old politics where Obama sent out Axerod to gin up the Ferraro controversy? You mean how the Obama campaign pretended that they do not understand and could not in a million years agree with any part of what your opponent is saying, that it's harmful, evil, ridiculous, reprehensible?
If Obama had come out then and brought up his grandmother and how it made him cringe he'd have earned my respect. Instead he let Ferraro twist in the wind and had his surrogates add fuel to the fire. When he was in trouble then it was my grandmother, typical white women.
Just another self serving, slimy politician.
April 12, 2008 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ferraro is not some random old lady on the street, she's an astute politican. There were a lot of people, Obama supporters or not, who were blatantly calling her comments "racist". Obama called her remarks "misguided" or something like that.
Ferraro held her ground and screamed bloody murder after being told over and over again it was not appropriate. That's nothing to stand up for.
April 12, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Wright is not some random old lady on the street either. Same old politics. Trot out the grandmother when he needs some protection. Send out Axerod it stir up the fire when it hurts the opponent.
April 12, 2008 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, roughly half of America is not participating in this "new politics." Nearly a third have no internet access, and Youtube does not work so well for the 10-20% using dial-up. Around 50% of Americans use television, radio, and newspapers to get their news. The tabloids will keep running for the poor and the ignorant, and a great many of them will continue to be easily manipulated by the "old politics."
April 13, 2008 1:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is true, LBPropaganda--the best sources for "new" politics aren't accessible to everyone. Many people in this country don't even have access to cable or satellite TV, so there go the 24-hour news channels. But they're accessible to an increasing number of people, especially a lot of younger people who can't even remember life without them. Things ARE changing--just slowly, like seasons change, instead of immediately, like the ringing of a bell.
Will we hit a tipping point in this election, where the new politics outweighs the old? I couldn't predict that without a crystal ball. But I'm happy to celebrate the progress, nevertheless.
April 13, 2008 6:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
littleblackpropaganda,
To whatever extent they may be valid, I would not conclude that the observations you've made will much impede the "new politics" Collegekid envisions.
These elections have already received a tremendous amount of coverage in virtually all media. There's no reason to expect they'll not receive a great deal more. This will include medium-to-medium "cross-posting," as it were: spillover from one medium to another.
Come November, the vast majority of those who will vote will have been exposed to an unprecedented amount and diversity of information regardless of the medium in which it originally appeared.
Add another factor: we live in "interesting times," as the Chinese proverb would have it. Voters are more interested and attentive, many of them considerably more interested and attentive, than they've been in I don't know how long.
I think these factors will result in an electorate that will, by necessity, have to do a good deal more of its own thinking, and at a higher level, than it would otherwise.
Collegekid may not have gotten some of the details right in terms of the environment and circumstances required and available to encourage a "new politics," but we may have such an environment and such circumstances anyway.
April 13, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, speaking as a female TV-free member of the civil rights/anti-Vietnam generation, the generation that's supposed to be most attracted to Mrs. Clinton, the generation more likely to be ill at ease with computers and still stuck in AoHell, all I can say is that we sent those kids to college and now they've sent their kids to college and Senator Obama will collect the reward for our efforts.
Because those kids did learn curiosity, and did learn to think further outside the box than we believed. And they are now doing what we hoped they were learning - paying attention, thinking about things, refusing to volunteer to kill strangers, griping about the poor quality of the jobs they can get, worrying about our country and seeing through the old politics smokescreen.
April 13, 2008 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Amen to that!
April 13, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Lets hear it for the new politics. One of the things I like about Senator Obama is his willingness to listen to us, not just talk at us. His 'bitter' comment at the SF fund raiser showed real insight about the plight of those people who are just barely making it in our country.
April 13, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
On the point of Obama not talking down to people, and refusing to simplify his stuff into soundbytes, I recently came across this Oct. 07 piece on his talk to New Hampshire voters and was delighted at how he refused to go simple:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/09/403888.aspx
April 13, 2008 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yvaughn,
I'm an Obama supporter without reserve, but I have a different position than he on every point that was raised.
But to your observation, yes, it's refreshing to see someone who owns what he thinks, is confident that he can get it across to others, and is willing to keep at it until he does.
It's going to be interesting to see what kind of dynamics develop between him and "the country," and with many different pieces of the country, as his presidency evolves.
April 13, 2008 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
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