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A Sincere Apology to Clinton Supporters

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Hello All!

I would like to offer a sincere apology to all Clinton supporters for my negative posts regarding Hillary Clinton in the last several weeks.  As I sat thinking about my negative tone in my last several posts, I realized that my behavior has been wildly inappropriate.

I had become bitter by the hateful posts I have seen about my candidate, Barack Obama, and it affected my clear thinking.  Being told repeatedly that I am being manipulated by a snake-charmer and victim to some sort of kool-aid drinking tragedy got me in a fit.

From here on out, I will not post negatively about Hillary Clinton.  I will continue to post positively about my preferred candidate, Barack Obama.  I will also continue to point out any time I think Hillary Clinton or her campaign are not being genuine or honest in their spin.  But I will not resort to name calling.  I will also not respond inappropriately to the numerous posts from anti-Obama bloggers who continue to bring up their perceived scandals from the Obama campaign.  It is clear that any blogger who posts a discussion of scandals that doesn't include a laundry list of Clinton's own dilemmas is not a blogger who can be reasoned with.  Therefore, this is the last time I will mention scandal.

In a few short weeks this nomination process is going to be over, and the Democratic party needs to come together to defeat John McCain.  There was a time when McCain might have been viewed as a moderate.  That time has passed.  He is pandering to the extremists in his party to try and win theWhite House.  We simply cannot afford another 4 years of Bush policies.

I believe with all my heart that Barack Obama should be and will be the next Democratic nominee for President and the next POTUS.  But no matter who the nominee is, we have to fight to make sure a Democrat is in the White House in 2008.  A divided party will not only sacrifice the White House but potentially the Democratic contol of Congress, as well.

We must come together for the good of our party, and for the good of our nation.

Sincerely,

Dave Morgan


Comments (68)

Well said. I agree with you entirely. Here's hoping that more Obama supporters join us.

GOOD THAT LEAVES AN OPENING FOR US TROLLS

to stack on your waffle gobbling bowling pussy candidate and laugh in your faces with mouths full of blueberry muffins, launching half digested chunks of dough in your latte liberal faces!

No go make me a sandwich.

Sincerely
S. Hannity

This is so totally illogical.

Firstly, equating support for Obama with negative perception of Hillary is ingenuous. Hillary has been angering most Americans left and right (refer to her disapproval rate) for quite some time. If Hillary wants to be viewed more positively, she needs to earn it, and she is quite far from doing so by out-neoconning the neo-cons and out-roving Rove. For many Democrats, these things do matter very much, regardless of their support for Obama.

Secondly, most Obama supporters have not stuck their foot in their mouth like this diarist and therefore have no need to express contrition or join any solidarity club. The diarist recognizes his mess-up and is big enough to do so, which is worthy of much respect. I trust that if Hillary behaves in a manner that is worthy of respect, she'll earn that respect from everyone. Americans can surprise, even Republicans, as we have witnessed from those who express respect for Barack Obama, but then, he has earned it.

Thirdly, it is true that Obama preaches reconciliation, and that is his role. The rest of us need to continue to be plain dealers.

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This is a great post, from a reasonable, thinking person. Like I said earlier once or twice, sane people support Obama. No need to mention other candidates from the same party negatively here.

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15 million voters insane!

Thanks Dave.

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What a lovely invitation to all of us unreasonable Hillary supporters! No more negativity. And just as Obama decides to drop all pretenses and go full throttle negative. Well, I guess like Obama you're just another victim of the Clinton camp negativity. On behalf of Hillary I would personally like to apologize for all the negative things you said about us.

Full throtle? You do not really believe that, surely? I can certainly agree with the complaint voiced regularly by the Clinton supporters that he is more willing to go negative than is evident in his popular image as some sort of goody-two-shoes. To suggest, however, that he is going negative against her as hard as he could beggars belief. Do you really think that it would be impossible to attack her more aggressively than he is right now? I assure you, the Obama campaign is being unbelievably restrained in their attacks right now and if Clinton were to pull it out and win the nomination the campaign which would ensue against John McCain would make this look like a game of tiddlywinks.

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" Do you really think that it would be impossible to attack her more aggressively than he is right now? "
I may be wide of the mark here, but there seems to be a view prevalent among Obama supporters that Hillary is actually attacking Obama as hard as it's possible to attack him. That simply isn't the case - we don't see ads on Rezko, or Wright or Ayers. Everyone has their own definition of when a candidate has gone too far, but that doesn't mean they haven't held back to varying extents.
Similarly, the question here isn't whether he could attack her more aggressively, it's whether the marginal benefit in going a bit more negative is worth the sheen that is sheared off his sparkling image - an image which in many respects is worth far more than any of his policies.

I think what Otto was getting at, is that there's been an admission in the Obama camp that they need to hit harder. I think we'll see them hitting as hard as they can while trying not to rough up that sparkle.

I think what Otto was getting at, is that there's been an admission in the Obama camp that they need to hit harder.

And surely you can agree that "go full throttle negative" is a peerlessly awkward way of expressing what you just took him to mean, no? Words have meanings - "go full throttle" means "go as hard as you can" not "go a little bit harder than you are presently going."

It's so good to see how this reconciliation has gotten off to such a good start.

Wow. Talk about bitter...

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I owe a special thanks to three people here on TPM that influenced my change of heart, and one at home.

A Missouri Voter... for his classy and focused posts that remind me constantly why I am an Obama supporter.

Phoebe Fay... for calling me on one of the most sexist and hateful posts I have ever written. I was so embarassed by the things I had said.

and

Carol Soprano... for reminding me that true liberal feminists would never post such hateful things! I want to see a woman President in my lifetime. I can name a dozen women I would proudly support.

My Mom... who would embarassed by the things I wrote. She is a Clinton supporter, but she will pull the lever for Obama in November if he is the Democratic nominee. All Democrats should be so loyal to the party.

I think you all four are class acts. I'm going to work hard to match your level of maturity.

I did the thing that Barack Obama has been avoiding beautifully for the last several months.

I allowed myself to get mired down in the awful sh*t-slinging.

No more......


I've turned a new leaf.

Dave, I'm positively touched - thank you for that! This nomination process has brought out both the best and worst in a lot of us ... passions are running very high and we say things in the heat of the moment. I appreciate your post and will try to emulate your graciousness (I can't promise you anything, though - I'm a pretty hot-blooded Italian!) ;)

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Apology accepted. I would also like to extend an apology for the times I have gone off the deep end.

Kudos to you

Thanks Dave. Been there, done that too. I've been trying to cool the temperature around here a bit. Too many people losing perspective, trolls being too successful in stirring up the resentment and anger. This thing is over soon, and some people don't forgive slights easily.

BTW - this isn't all kumbaya sh@t. Remember that little phrase, "United we stand, divided we fall"? As much as HRC ain't my fist choice - and strongly so - I'll still pull the lever for her even after all this. I'm not saying I'd be happy about it, but it's better than McCain.

I've been thinking of doing something similar. Seems like every time there is a positive post about one of the candidates, the folks who support the other candidate pile into the post's comment thread and crap it up. I thing I'm going to stay out of comment threads for posts that praise Obama, as long as they don't bash Hillary. This thing is almost over, and each candidates supporters deserve some uninterrupted time.

You take some unfair hits Billy. I totally disagree with you on number of things (sometimes I do agree with you though), but you seem to be one of few who is willing to discuss ideas. That's cool. You shouldn't be personally slammed just because you're wrong most of the time. You'll come around, given half a chance. :-)

Hillary Clinton is practically campaigning for John McCain. And yes, I believe she knows better. So because of this and her sundry "tall tales" and out and out lies, she will remain an egg-sucking, corny pantsuit-wearing, hair-helmet-headed, lying, conniving, punk opportunist in my book.

And yes, I would LOVE to have a woman president.

But Hillary Clinton is too much of a scumbag.

Clinton is not a "scumbag". I disagree with her vehemently on some things, and think less and less of her political tactics in this campaign, but she is not "scumbag". At the end of the day she is a solid Democratic legislator and fairly progressive on most issues, and light-years ahead of McCain on every issue, though I think Barack Obama is better on most issues than she is.

She has been a distant 4th in my choices of the people running in this cycle, but this hyperbolic vitriol such as your comment does neither Barack Obama, the Democratic Party, or the country any favors.

Stop it.

I say she is a scumbag, and I am entitled to express my opinion. If you don't like my comment, you have the right not to read it. But just as I cannot control what you choose to express, neither can you for me.

Now, with that said, we can debate issue.

If Hillary Clinton has not been acting like a scumbag in this race, how else would you describe it?

politics as usual

You are right. I can't control you and prevewnt you from behaving like a jackass. That said, you can spare us the "you can't force me" victim schtick, and you can choose to cease behaving like a jackass. Up to you of course.

Clinton is not a "scumbag". I disagree with her vehemently on some things, and think less and less of her political tactics in this campaign, but she is not "scumbag". At the end of the day she is a solid Democratic legislator and fairly progressive on most issues, and light-years ahead of McCain on every issue, though I think Barack Obama is better on most issues than she is.

She has been a distant 4th in my choices of the people running in this cycle, but this hyperbolic vitriol such as your comment does neither Barack Obama, the Democratic Party, or the country any favors.

Stop it.

And Billy is an ass!

OK, I see that you're from Brooklyn. Salty language is the norm in your neck of the woods, and that's one of the things I enjoy about folks over there - tough, gritty, take no prisoners, and tell it like they feel it. But, in most other regions of the country, name calling shows bad character.

If you're an Obama guy, then act like one. Hate Hillary - fine, I hate her too - but as Obama says, we need to be the change we seek. Name calling ain't gonna cut it my friend. That's very Red State/Blue State of you.

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Yeah, calling Hillary names might alienate her supporters, but announcing to the world that you *hate* her is that change we seek that will bring us all together...

If I may, I think Obama's message doesn't just call on people to change their divisive language, it calls on people to change their divisive thinking. Hating Hillary because you don't like the way she's run her campaign is losing sight of the big picture, and the changes that her and Obama are looking to bring to the country.

Foreigner, Hillary is not trying to bring change. She represents the status quo. And she is defending the status quo -- and her drinking buddy John McCain.

Soy boy is the biggest troll on tis site. His main purpose here is to write the most outrageous headline.
Never adds anything to the thread except his hateful, pathetic, scribblings.

Dont feed the trolls!

Fair enough. Maybe I still have some hate issues to work out. But, can I say I hate the way she's run her campaign? Would that be acceptable? No? I hate chihuahuas. Can I say that? At some point we have to allow people to voice their negative opinions about a candidate. It can't be all fluff and false flattery either.

On your other point, that both candidates are working for change, well, yes, and no. Both will bring changes, true. But, the changes I care about most Hillary doesn't bring to the table. In fact, the way she's threatening to take this to the convention and get the nomination through procedural maneuvers feels not that much different than what Bush has been doing from his high perch. Said another way, if Clinton is willing to cut the throat of a fellow Democrat and divide he party in order to win, which powers that Bush usurped for himself would Clinton retain if it helped her remain in power? (e.g., the use of the DoJ and other agencies for political purposes.)

That said, I think McCain would be even worse. So, yes, I'd pull the lever for Clinton. Not happily. But I would.

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What you have on this site are a bunch of people who see only one side. They see no fault in their own candidate. They see every slight nuance of interpretation by the other candidate as vindictiveness, negativity and mendacity. They see the opposing candidate's sloganeering or positioning as tearing the other candidate down, damaging the chances of general election victory and rendering the delicate fabric of the party.

The extent to which the opposing candidate shares
a world view, policy similarities and actionable governing intentions is not important. They only see good (their candidate) and bad (the other candidate). They've watched too many formulaic Hollywood movies. You know. The first act shows the unambiguously good heroic character and builds our hatred for the unambiguously bad villain. Through the second act the heroe battles heroically and finally at the end good meets evil mano el mano with all the rocket propelled grenades and machine guns somehow having been expended so the hero and villain battle without weapons in a long drawn out climatic scene.

I'm glad you were able to move past this level because unfortunately, in real life things are never as simple as it looks in the movies. Both candidates and their campaigns have gone negative, repeatedly, and in ways that appear to the other sides supporters as mean spirited, underhanded and lacking in basic veritas.

Welcome.

(SIRTS)

Has anyone seen Hillary come out and condemn the Willy Horton ad that the NC Repubs have prepared. I understand that they have now agreed not to run it, but they don't need to; they got it run over and over by the news channels as news, and it didn't cost them a dime. As far as I know, McCain has condemned the ad, but Hillary has remained silent.

Criticizing Clinton on policy, or for her attempts to undermine the presumptive Democratic nominee, is fair game. But you're so right: we need to remember that McCain is the opposite side. And yeah, it's fair to hold Obama supporters to a higher standard, because unlike Clinton, Obama faces the likely prospect of having to unite the party in future. We shouldn't make that task more difficult for him by unnecessary pettiness.

And it's so much more interesting to engage on the issues than on personality conflicts (most of the time, anyway). I'm not a saint. But I do try, and I'll keep trying, to stick to the issues.

I disagree entirely. Her race-baiting strategy early in the campaign has no place in the Democratic Party. Neither does the rest of her nonsense. I certainly don't think vitriol should be aimed at her supporters but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be criticized for her shannanaganry

Hmmmm... good point. As scofflaw said, "Criticizing Clinton on policy, or for her attempts to undermine the presumptive Democratic nominee, is fair game." Yes. But, how we do it is also important.. Saying "That b!#@h can stick a lapel pin up her a$$" is distinct from having a serious conversation about the weakness of her campaign's arguments against Obama, etc.

YOU MAKE ME SICK !

You spineless bloodclot. Your fratbrat loses one state and you turn all hugs and croc tears. Go put on your cup and get out there for some full body contact private!

Untruly Yours
Sgt. M. Obama

p.s. remember...responding is payday

Sorry, but you really, really need to grow up. If this is how a Hillary supporter acts then one can understand why Obama supporters react the way they do. Stop spamming the threads with your idiocy. It's not funny and you're embarrassing yourself and your candidate.

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"If this is how a Hillary supporter acts then one can understand why Obama supporters..."
Right, so a single nasty Hillary supporter justifies a legion of nasty Obama supporters?
This site is split maybe 85-15 Obama/Clinton in terms of supporters (which, interestingly, makes it unrepresentative of every Democrat voting demographic save African Americans). I see far more anti-Hillary irrational ranting than vice versa (personal bias notwithstanding), but I equally see more reasonable Obama posts than Hillary posts. The proportions are about right.

Just because there are more Obama supporters here to get outraged, doesn't mean that Hillary supporters are more outrageous!

You are mistaken. It is funny because he is sarcasticly mimicking a troll and you took him seriously. He even reminded you in his post that a reply is the pay off for a troll and you fed him anyway. That's funny!

I prefaced my earlier comment with the "why" first. I guess I need to reiterate it. My initial comment was, "Hillary Clinton is campaigning for john McCain". Then I said that she "knows better". Then I said that she lies repeatedly. ONLY THEN did I call her a scumbag. So please don't act as though I'm here simply calling names.

Secondly, I fully support Obama. And yes, I'm from Brooklyn, which means I know Hillary Clinton's record a little better than some of you.

I have more of a basis to make my conclusion. Hillary is a carpetbagging politician, and most New Yorkers know she has done little, if anything for New York. So, if you think I'm a jackass for saying that, fine. So be it. I'm not phased.

But Hillary is a scumbag none the less.

Case in point, the debate. Every opportunity that Clinton had, she "turned the knife" on Obama. Yet when Obama was asked what he thought of Hillary's Bosnia fiasco, he defended her by saying all candidates make gaffes, and tried to pivot from there to bigger issues.

And what does Hillary do? After the debate she goes on the warpath in the media criticizing Obama for being weak!?

When he deliberately showed restraint? And said as much afterward.

Obama gave you a pass and you kick him in the throat for doing it?

You constantly change the goalpost because you're losing, showing absolutely no respect for Obama's accomplishments in the race. Every state that he wins doesn't count?

And the final kicker, you imply that your Republican opponent is a better commander n chief than your own fellow Democrat?

Where is the bottom of the well for Hillary?

You see, Obama is practicing an ethic of "you don't knee-cap your sibling. You don't sucker punch your sibling." Meanwhile, Hillary is sucker-punching away AND campaigning for her drinking buddy John McCain to boot.

Please. You want to know what I think? She's a motherfucking scumbag with cheese on top.

Well, I'm not sure how much of your response was directed at me, how much was directed at Lestatdelc, and how much was directed at Hillary and/or her supporters.

I'll take what I can, but first let me say that I agree with you in essence about Hillary. I think she's taken it too far, and I can't stand that she's essentially adopted Republican talking points for her attacks on Obama. Yes, yes, yes... it stinks! It pisses me off too.

"So please don't act as though I'm here simply calling names."

If that was directed at me, then maybe I wasn't clear either. You've said a number of things worth noting, but the name calling - especially personal attacks against other posters here, is inflammatory, divisive, and clearly not consistent with what you appreciate in Obama - an example of which you noted already. And you being from Brooklyn, I understand this can also just be a matter of style. I've lived out that way, had and have friends from there. They don't spare the language or attitude. But, while Obama is being gracious to Clinton, you're undermining his efforts to win over Clinton supporters by being nasty to them. Get my point? Your not doing Obama any favors here.

Now, I never called you a jackass, so please don't conflate my posts with Lestatdelc's. (And he deserves a finger-wagging for that one too.) I'm not suggesting you're a bad person. I'm not suggesting you shouldn't have your negative opinions about Hillary (or even some of her supporters). But, what I am suggesting is that if you want to help Obama, you do the things that win people over, not the things that offend them. That's all.

And, GO OBAMA!

I'M OFFENDED BY THE GAYNESS OF THIS THREAD!

How do I get a transfer out of this chickensh*t thread?

Truly annoyed
Pvt. Richard Reiben
(Saving Private Ryan for the war movie impaired)

DaddyD, I was not responding to you with the jackass comment.

On the otherhand, however, I am not here trying to win Hillary Clinton supporters over either. Hopefully some of 'em will gain enough sense to wake up -- but that's really on them. Deep down they know Hillary is acting a fool.

Obama, on the other hand, is not perfect either, as he himself says. So I may have some criticisms of him or the campaign as well. And when I feel that strongly enough, I write about it.

The bottom line is I post here to vent. Like many of you, I see what's happening with the primary race and get mad. And since the mainstream media is often a part of the problem, they often are NOT expressing my views. So I come here and express myself. It really is that simple. You can take it or leave it.

Like Obama often says, we're gonna disagree sometimes. But I'll always speak the truth as I know it.

Cool. Maybe we agree to disagree. But know that we're on the same team, and come this fall, we'd better hope that most of those Hillary supporters are also on the same team with us.

I am sure both agree that Clinton has done some very questionable things in this campaign, and for me her vote for authorizing the invasion alone made her a non-starter for my considering voting for her in the primary, and makes her only the lesser of two evils were she to get the nomination.

I also swear like a sailor most of the time (Navy brat here) so it isn't that I take offense at salty language. My point is, that your venting doesn't help, and actually hurts, the cause of getting Obama the nomination and the keys to the White House. It is dumb politics with no upside at all (other than whatever cathartic effect it does for you personally).

That's my point.

How is calling Clinton a scumbag helping Obama win the nomination?

How is calling Clinton a scumbag helping Democrats?

How is calling Clinton a scumbag helping ensure McCain is defeated in November?

The simple fact is that too much internecine warfare in the form of negative politics produces responses like Mr. Soy's. That said, I'm sure I've heard negative messages about HRC from the Obama camp too. And there are passionate, liberal, democracy-loving supporters of Hillary who react as violently against Obama as BionicSoy does against Hillary.

Is there any metric out there for us to objectively compare the negative ads and statements made by both Hillary, Obama, and all of their major surrogates? Was there a first shot fired? Those answers might settle this debate. Whoever's been more negative owes the other side an apology.

The lesson is that we, as a party, suffer when we attack our own. Not that primary elections should be circle-jerks, but they should focus on debating and establishing their differences on policy issues (wanna see some? I give you the last 8 years of GWB's admin), rather than asking questions about CiC thresholds, lapel pins, who lied when, who flipflopped, the occasional misspeak or mangled comment, etc etc etc... The energy we waste on our attacks ought to be saved for GWB and JSMcC.

I would love to focus on John McCain. But the fact of the matter is, he should go on vacation because Hillary is doing all his dirty work for him.

George Bush, on the other hand, is such a fuck-up there's no need to even discuss him.

Bionic, I have to say I agree with everything you say here, without qualification. I'm a New Yorker as well (born and raised in NYC, live in New Paltz now) and she has done nothing for us. She is a snake-in-the-grass and I am truly ashamed for having voted for her in 2000 and 2006 (and I'm ashamed for having vociferously defended her and her husband during the Lewinsky/impeachment mess). To be honest, I've never supported her bid for the Presidency (I was originally an Edwards supporter) because I've seen how manipulative and disingenuous she's been here in NY, how entrenched in the DC power structure she is. The way she has gone after Obama is breathtaking - I am truly aghast at some of the things she (or her surrogates) have said and done. I've said on other threads and I'll say it again - I will actively work for her Democratic opponent when she runs for the Senate in 2012.

I am a fiercely partisan individual - intensely loyal and will fight to the death for what I believe in. I will also fight to the death when I perceive there is an injustice, and in this campaign there is a great injustice being done to an honorable, decent man who is trying to change politics and take this country in a new direction. Some people are more forgiving and conciliatory; I am not. And, truth be told, the world needs people like us. I have gotten over feeling badly for being who I am; if people here (or anywhere) don't like it they don't have to read my posts or interact with me. I don't care - I wish only to speak my truth and hold people accountable for what they say and do.

I'm with you, my friend. Dave's post was wonderful, and I appreciate his sentiments. I have tried (for the most part) to always be civil and not resort to name calling (although I'm sure people here will argue otherwise). However, there are times when civility and compromise doesn't work. We are at a juncture in our country (hell, on earth) and we have to get it right this time. I feel that strongly about this. And I truly believe that Obama is the best chance we have to get it right.

OK, I'm done. I just wanted to know that I love reading your posts and am not offended. ;)

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It would be better for Obama if you stopped talking.

stfu.

your part of whats wrong with the country and if not the world.

I know you dont take your vote seriously.

And I know you dont see anything outside of the little box you call a mind.

Carol, you represent pure sanity in the world. Keep reading.

Transfer arranged.

Mellow out folks, there's no better love-making than when after the fight. Look forward to it.

That is a disgusting thought.

Truly disgusting, especially if it involves cigars and blue dresses.

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Hillary Clinton
Irrational and Unfair

Is America ready for a woman president? Yes. Is America ready for Hillary Clinton as a woman president? No. Why? Because she has shown herself to be irrational and unfair!
All you non-believers, think to yourself a moment, if Hillary Clinton were a rational woman would she still be in the race?

Look at all the men who dropped out of the race immediately because they were rational enough to know that they could not mathematically win the race. I know your rebuttal (Hillary Supporters) Obama can’t reach the magic number either and my answer is: he is still in the lead and it is unfair of Hillary to ask the superdelegates to hand her the election when she is not in the lead and will not be in the lead at the end of this race!

It is unfair to continue in an unwinnable race while simultaneously bashing the democratic nominee. It is irrational for her to count the votes, in Michigan and Florida, as her win when she agreed they wouldn’t count. It is unfair to single-handedly divide the Democratic Party. It is irrational to waste valuable time and resources that could be better spent campaigning against McCain. It is unfair to ask the American people, struggling to make ends meet, to donate to a dead campaign.

I ask the American people, to whom this blog is for because you can not speak rationally to an irrational person, is she the type of woman you want in the highest post and in the hardest job in America? I think not! We need a man or woman that is rational and fair because without those qualities, 35 years of experience will get us know where!

Finally, to the media, Keith Olbermann, this topic should be number one on your countdown. Stephen Colbert, make irrational and unfair words of the day. Anderson Cooper, discuss this with your expert panelists. Bill O’reilly, invite a psychiatrist to your show instead of the person analyzing body movements. Media it is your duty to spread the word, so that Americans can make a rational and fair decision when they go to the polls!

And there you have it! We're all friends again. Doesn't that feel better?

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i don't think you guys get it. there are many clinton supporters, like myself, who are ok voting for mccain. we have no intention to vote for OBAMA. actually, for me and my family we are on some level already resolved and have accepted the reality hillairy will most likely not win. in my opinion the potential margin of reagan democratic voters OBAMA will lose will surely put juan mcamnesty in the office of president. hopefully a lesson would have been learned in the end. as far as accepting the OBAMA apology...hmmm i would say it's a little too late in my opinion.

let's look to 2012!

You go ahead and look to 2012, but your neck will snap back into place when Obama beats McCain for the nomination in 2008.

And if you're stoopid enough to vote McBush Three, there's no use trying to rationalize with you any damn way.

in my opinion the potential margin of reagan democratic voters OBAMA will lose will surely put juan mcamnesty in the office of president. hopefully a lesson would have been learned in the end.

So in other words, you're voting for McCain out of spite?

Sorry Dave, you're being a putz.

How does this fit the scumbag test, if true?

"House Democratic Whip James Clyburn, of South Carolina and the highest ranking black in Congress, also said he has heard speculation that Clinton is staying in the race only to try to derail Obama and pave the way for her to make another White House run in 2012.

“I heard something, the first time yesterday (in South Carolina), and I heard it on the (House) floor today, which is telling me there are African Americans who have reached the decision that the Clintons know that she can’t win this. But they’re hell-bound to make it impossible for Obama to win” in November, Clyburn told Reuters in an interview."

“I think it’s so disingenuous … (adviser James) Carville and Sen. Clinton were all on TV. I’ve seen them two or three times this week, talking about counting Florida and Michigan.”

Obama did not campaign in those states because the Democratic Party said Florida and Michigan wouldn’t be included in the formal tally for the nomination. “Her name was the only one on the ticket in Michigan and still 42, 43 percent of the vote was against her,” Clyburn said.

Still, Clyburn said “I don’t think she ought to drop out.”

But he added, “There’s a difference between dropping out and raising all this extraneous scurrilous stuff about the guy (Obama). Just run your campaign … you don’t have to drop out to be respectful of other people.”

Being a Liberal means never having to say you're sorry to other Liberals.

:)

It will all be over soon, and then we can (hopefully) go back to being one big anti-GOP fambly. (Albeit a dysfunctional one.)

Right back at ya, Mila.

Actually here's another story worth reading:

Hillary Clinton learned 'hard lesson' on health care, she wrote to Moynihan

BY DAVID SALTONSTALL
DAILY NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT

Hillary Clinton has long admitted to bungling universal health care in 1994, but a never-before-seen note she penned to the late Sen. Daniel Moynihan reveals how deeply she thought the failure hurt her — and the nation.

"If I had listened to you about health care in 1994, I would be far better off today - but more importantly - so would the nation's health care system," Clinton wrote Moynihan in October 2000, near the end of her New York Senate campaign to succeed the retiring Moynihan.

It was a confession in which the former First Lady seemed to acknowledge that - if not for her refusal to listen to congressional leaders in her own party like Moynihan - millions more Americans would likely have become insured.

"All I can tell you is I learned my lessons the hard way, which makes them indelible," Clinton said in the handwritten note, a copy of which was obtained by the Daily News.

Accepting blame for the 1994 health care debacle is nothing new for Clinton, especially lately, as she is again promising to provide health insurance to all Americans as a candidate for President.

"If you don't learn from your mistakes, you stop growing," the presidential hopeful said last September as she unveiled her new health care plan, which she has promised would be debated more openly than the closed-door process she oversaw as First Lady in 1993 and 1994.

But her private note to Moynihan seemed to cast her failure, and its cost to the nation, in starker terms.

Back in 1994, Moynihan was chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, and brokered a bipartisan bill that would have cut the number of uninsured Americans in half - to roughly 20 million from 40 million.

But the Clintons refused to consider anything but 100% coverage, killing any chance of a compromise, said David Podoff, a former Senate Finance Committee economist who was intimately involved in negotiations.

"It was an opportunity lost," said Podoff, now an adjunct professor at Georgetown University.

Since then, the problem has only gotten worse, with some 46 million Americans uninsured, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

Despite their rift, Moynihan backed Clinton's 2000 Senate campaign. However, the senator's widow, Liz, is now backing Clinton rival Barack Obama for President.

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Whoooah. I'm being a putz? Hahaahaa

Sorry Dave, my apologies for the name calling. I can tell by your post your hearts in the right place. To bad that the idea of Kumbyah (not my word) is already been discussed with much cynicism. I too would like to believe it's going to happen (in Obama's favor).

As Steven Tyler sings, "Dream on, Dream until your Dreams come true".

Mila you need to be banned for being totally disrespectful of any posters on this site. You offer little discourse or any rationality. This is not a gage of my intelligence rather it is agage of having visited this site over the last few years and seeing you get banned with one name or another. I am not sure who you are and maybe you are paid to be who you are but nonetheless you are the one that is small and you are the one who had to live with yourself. Good luck with that and finding happiness in any aspect of your life.

Sincerely Joshquasimoto

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