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Why I support Obama and not Hillary (Clintonistas, let's have a civil discourse)

See, I wish I could find more Clinton supporters like you.

 

I support Obama, but what you've said has some truth. I do agree that a lot of Obama supporters do make constant parallels to Hillary, and in recent months, it'd seem that as the Clinton campaign gets ballsier, the blogosphere is alight with a lot of outraged Obama supporters baying for blood.  This could be the majority of them, and even though I too have partaken in lampooning the Hildebeest (rather smugly, as you can tell), I wouldn't really consider myself to be part of the "non-Hillary" voting bloc.  See, I suppose one main area where we fundamentally disagree is, unlike you, I do want to see an inspirational leader in the White House.  I hardly think Obama is nothing but an award-winning smile--I believe he could get things done as well as Hillary can--but I treat his charisma and ability to galvanize so many people (particularly my youth group) as a definite asset.

 

Before Obama, excluding a very, very casual anti-war stance, I really didn’t have a noticeable interest in politics.  I can remember Bill Clinton telling America he did not have sexual relations with that woman, but I essentially came of age/ awareness during the Bush years.  The political understanding my mind begot over this period has been that there is absolutely no point in taking action for anything, ever, because ultimately the administration will turn an arrogant and defiant cheek.  Because of Bush's neo-imperialist aggression, the world seems to dislike us quite a bit at the moment, and I fear we now have far more genuine international threats than we did eight years ago.

 

So, you have to understand (and I hope you don't dismiss) the appeal a guy like Obama has for me.  Clearly, his message resonates beyond the youth, but it's probably not a stretch to say American youth have been most stirred by his words.  There are plenty of people in my twentysomething age bracket who find his message supremely bracing.  Many Obama naysayers pish-posh this appeal, and dismiss his supporters as cutely naïve, a noisy cafeteria of political Augustus Gloops stuffing Obama’s silver-tongue rhetoric into our mouths two hands at a time.  But I think this criticism falls resoundingly on its bum, because it wrongly assumes we're lapping up Obama’s words in the expectation that once he's in office, things will somehow, in some indescribable and unknowing way, get miraculously “better.”  It’s a big misconception, and all those pundits (yes, sadly, including Hillary) continue to cling presumptuously to this notion that we really are expecting “the skies to open up” and that “celestial choirs will start singing,” the moment Obama is sworn into office.  With it comes a procession of punditry that bandies around additional stereotypes—we’re all children and should be patronized as such, that an optimistic and inspirational political message automatically makes his policies void of content and meaning, that his perfervid throng of teenyboppers (that means you, union delegate teenyboppers) have canonized St. Barack and believe he can do no wrong. But all of it is such a painfully obtuse and tone-deaf understanding of Obama’s cultural appeal, essentially founded on belittling what they don’t understand.  The appeal of Obama isn't that he's someone who is going to make everything inexplicably better, some multi-racial rockstar/soothsayer, or Political Pied Piper vowing to single-handedly lead the rats out of Washington.  His appeal lies in the fact that he promises to let us have a voice again--a voice that has been so muted under Bush that many of my generation fail to see the point in even talking anymore.  Sure, this may not be particularly convincing to all of you. Those of you who have been around the block, I can only assume, have weathered enough political disappointment, lagging expectations, and broken promises to crack a bittersweet grin at the prospect of being charmed yet again.  Perhaps this message is not new to you, and so you won't buy into his ideological platform.  But all I can say is this: if I have confidence that our President will listen to us if we're loud enough, it's an enormous incentive to start getting involved in political and social action.  Change, Obama has continually maintained, is only possible when the people start working for it, and in order for the people to start working for it, we need an ideological match lit under our bottoms.  Scoffing Obama for being “just words,” misses the entire point.  Firstly, because he isn’t “just words,” and secondly, “just words” mobilize entire legions of young people to go out and believe they can make a difference.  Don’t underestimate that.  A person’s cynicism may be grounded in unfortunate experience and may well be justified, but on principle, cynicism does not equate sageliness.  Cynicism, in general, tends to be little more than an embittered condescension.  That's why I think inspiration is a lot more important than cynics and naysayers assume it to be.  If we're active, we have the chance to be formidable.  If we're apathetic, little will get done, regardless of who is sitting in Capitol Hill.

 

But look, I get that some people shrug or shake their heads at Obama’s alleged gospel of starry-eyed hope evangelism.  It's understandable.  I can even get the confusion over why so many people are taking a gamble on young senator Obama over Clinton's soi-distant "experience" when they ultimately agree on so many critical issues.  Frankly, angry as I have been at Hillary these past few weeks, chances are I'll still vote for her.  But where they differ has substantial bearing for me.  I'd like to point out that comparing candidates on their stances is essentially the way I choose my vote.

 

Hillary is a little too hawkish for my tastes.  She promises to withdraw our forces from Iraq, but the fact that she's stumped on slogans like "you need a leader who can bring both the arrows and the olive branch!" is disquieting.  I don't want her to start rattling a saber at Russia or even Iran over diplomatic stalemates, and I worry that her foreign policy ideology, while obviously not blunderingly Bushian, is still essentially confrontational and combative.  I don't like that she stumps on keeping America’s sleeping children “safe,” because keeping America “safe” seems to entail an overeager trigger finger.  McCain is stumping on keeping America “safe.”  Obama is also for bolstering national security, but his approach to foreign policy doesn’t suggest the same antagonism as Hillary’s.  I'd like to point out that during their Ohio debate, Hillary mentioned several times Serbia and Russia in vaguely threatening terms--as if these countries needed to be 'watched' or ‘dealt with’ rather than approached.  I dislike that stance.  We’re living in an age where there is no wisdom in going nuclear, and I don’t want someone whose foreign policy approach lingers remotely peripherally around such a hyperbolic outcome.

 

In contrast to Senator Arrows and Olive Branch, Obama has repeatedly stumped on meeting hostile leaders without preconditions--a policy that, tellingly, Hillary has attacked him frequently on.  Personally, I think it’s a very sound one.  Diplomacy can lead to stalemates, but rarely megaton destruction.  In a world where there is so much acute animosity towards us, I'd rather we have a leader eager to diffuse this animosity by way of reconciliation and negotiation, not needlessly, and perhaps defiantly, stirring the pot.  I don't think we need to engage in macho posturing with Putin, or treat Cuba with the throwback ideological hostility and apprehension we had back when the Cold War was relevant.  Hillary stumps an awful lot on her foreign policy credentials, but when she isn't touting her resume, she does tend to talk in terms that aren't particularly diplomatic--or if they are, represent a sort of hardline diplomacy that rarely, if ever, gets things done.  I want a negotiator and a conciliator in my leader, a person who will steer the country courageously in its darkest hours, but who will use military action as a last, defensive (and not preemptive) resort, rather than treating it like a holstered pistol, or a diplomatic fallback.

 

Another issue is healthcare.  Both Hillary and Obama want better coverage, but frankly, even though Hillary's plan is coated in a pleasant little socialist gloss, I think Obama's is much sounder.  Hillary says she wants to "provide" Americans with universal healthcare, but that's rather deceptive.  In reality, she wants to make every American to buy healthcare, enforcing the policy either by taking it out of our paychecks or penalizing us if we refuse to buy it.  There is an insurmountable chasm difference between state-sponsored healthcare and state-mandated healthcare.  I mean, it’s not the state sponsoring healthcare here, it is still the insurance companies. She hasn't disclosed how she's going to do this, and while she has hinted at ways of making it affordable through tax breaks and so on, ultimately, she remains very vague.  Sure, I suppose Obama's course of action is also hounded with hypotheticals and notional outcomes, and Hillary has roundly lampooned him for evidently being naïve enough to think all he needs to do is "ask" the industry to lower its rates.  Frankly, I don't think Obama intends to simply ask "please" and expect the industry to capitulate.  I do think he intends to get legislative of their ass.  I think regulating healthcare to provide more affordable rates for all Americans is a far more achievable and desirable plan than making everyone simply buy it at an undisclosed cost and for questionable coverage.  I already have to buy car insurance in New York; I don't need to be saddled with another steep, mandatory insurance bill for something that doesn’t guarantee to be that good.

 

Big deal, you might say.  Socialist countries tax heavily, so what's the difference in having the government simply take our healthcare payments out of our paychecks?  True, true.  But herein lies another reason why I've been lukewarm about Hillary: her bosom relationship with the healthcare industry.  The truth is, while Hillary's plan *may* benefit Americans, it will be an undeniably boon to the healthcare industry.  The government isn't regulating healthcare in this scenario, the insurance companies are, and Hillary is enabling them to reap a heinous superabundance of profit.  It's a veritable bonanza.  This won't be a problem if the coverage is acceptable to Americans, but I have to ask: if Hillary enjoys thoroughly chummy relations with the health insurance companies, and they're bound to reap profits regardless of the fate of the American people, what's to ensure that Hillary will work to give us the best deal possible?  For everyone who claims Obama can’t bring it about because he lacks the savvy of a season legislative vet, how can we be sure Hillary will even work for us?  If she's trying to reconcile the interests of both the insurance companies and the public, does this not open up the possibility a lacking compromise? Obama stumps on taking the healthcare industry down to size to have it serve the people.  Hillary seems to be trying to conflate big moneyed and public interests into one mutually beneficial agreement.  I'm not saying it won't work, but I will say I'm pretty dubious.  Given that Hillary obviously has some questionable donors in her tax returns and suspect earmarks projects, it causes me to take pause and ask just how many corporate interests is she obliged to before she owes us anything?  Yes, I know Obama has also taken corporate money.  It is just the way of Washington, and I'm sure it will hinder him in accomplishing certain things.  Again: I have not apotheosized the man; I do not expect him to be perfect.  The diminishing of his MSM-anointed super-morality with Rezko/Wright-related histrionics doesn’t cause my faith to curdle.  But for me, lobbied money is incriminating because of quantity and specifics of the sum more so than it being totally a matter of principle.  It's important to know where the money is coming from, how long it has been coming from where it has, and the implications of the sum. If Hillary is taking large funds from the healthcare industry, how can we really expect her to cut a fair deal for the American public?

 

Also: the judgment thing.  Hillary hasn't convinced me she'd be a good leader.  She is a little expedient, and while I suppose every senator does his or her share of political posturing, I thought it was bad form to jostle for electability on an issue as crucial as the war in Iraq.  Any decision that involves the mass mobilization of lives and resources should not ultimately boil down to how it benefits you in the long run.  I'm sorry, but that is poor character, and I want our Commander-in-Chief to be strong and conscientious, not conniving.  Bush and Cheney went into Iraq for selfish interests, and Hillary Clinton enabled them out of personal gain.  Hell, she can’t even admit she was wrong.  I don't want a president whose conscience plays second fiddle to her personal ambitions.  It is, among slimier things, an underwhelming starting point for making levelheaded decisions and trustworthy judgment.  Furthermore, Hillary's judgment over healthcare in the 1990s was a legislative cataclysm, and many of the missteps that enabled its implosion are still being exhibited by Hillary now: the moneyed interests, the egregious secrecy, exclusiveness to the point of alienating her fellow democrats, the overall inability to handle the pressure...if she's still essentially the same, how can I trust her to go about leading the country in any other way from what she's already shown me she's capable (or incapable) of?  Hillary had a hard time managing responsibility of one large executive project, and she seems to have an equally hard time in managing her current campaign, which is shaping up to be an operatic portrayal punctured hubris paired with a descent into madness that would belittle Lady Macbeth.  Obama has gone from 3am, to NAFTAgate, to several vettings on Rezko, to Muslim allegations, to Rev. Wright, and never once has he lost his composure, dignity, or grace.  Hillary, alternatively, is teetering to an emotional Chernobyl.  I’m having a hard time coming to terms with “Shame on you, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad!” being howled on the floors of the U.N.

 

 

Finally, I'm unsold on Hillary's claim to "get things done."  Granted, Obama, although he does paint himself as post-partisan politician with both hands perpetually reaching across the aisle, he has an undeniably progressive senate record.  Yet, independents and old Rockefellar Republicans (you know, the legitimate, non-morally hypocritical Republicans) still support him.  I think he has the potential to make Washington less-partisan and will be more likely to conciliate opposing forces to bring about real policy.  However, Hillary, as exemplified in her "I'm a fighter" line, is not the kind of person to try and work towards group consensus on major issues.  Hillary is partisan and an inarguably polarizing figure, and while she may fight for and accomplish change in the short run, there's no telling how long it would last should Washington stay divided along the same partisan lines as it has. I honestly don't want a fighter.  I want a listener.  I don’t want the feminine candidate; I want the candidate touting the feminine approach.  Balls to the chromosomal makeup, I’m seeking a candidate who bests represents those chromosomes in their policies, not in their pantsuits.  I want a president who seeks to talk with, relate to, and reconcile people, a president who gets all parties to agree on a positive healthcare plan or economic policy to forge general consensus agreeable enough that the next majority/administration won’t work ceaselessly to bring down (as did the GOP post-Bill).  Policies don't need to simply shift, the whole political mindset needs to change.  With Obama, while I'm not sure he can deliver on everything he says, there is a progressivism that vows to work towards alerting fundamental perspectives on how to reach across the aisle and get things done.  The man has a vision, and vision, even if it is not entirely achieved, is what I feel this country needs.  I feel like taking a gamble on someone who has the potential to be progressive rather than the candidate who will merely herald the return to the administration of blue-dresses, blowjobs, rampant privatization, and a vicious assault on the welfare system.

 

That’s why I support Obama.  Now, why do you support Hillary?



Comments (25)

Civil discourse with someone who calls us Clintonistas?

Give me a break, you don't deserve a civil discourse

Yes, ignore the lengthy post and dismiss it because of one word. What's more, where oh where is the pejorative lurking in "istas"? Fashionistas? Zapatistas? I don't see it, and I didn't mean it. I'm sorry.

Clinton supporters, let's have a civil discourse.

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It wouldn't matter if the post is book length, it still is insulting, immature and shallow.

Forgiveness doesn't come easy for you, does it? I don't quite understand what makes "Clintonistas" so gravely insulting or even shallow, seeing as how it insinuates absolutely nothing, but again: I'm sorry. If I could edit the title, I would.

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"Clintonista" isn't the point. It's the contemptous referrences and lack of knowledge about her positions that I find offensive. Her health care policy is a case in point.

Correct me, then. I know she has bosom ties to the healthcare industry, I know she plans to put forth a mandate that makes everyone buy healthcare and penalizes them if they don't. I don't think it's a bad plan, but I'm wary of it and personally, I think Obama's is better.

The length of the post speaks against it rather than for it. You must be used to writing for teachers who grade by the pound.

Oh, in case you're horribly confused as to who this is addressing, this began in response to a blog entry by a civil Clinton supporter. It's this one: http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/how-the-blogosphere-is-killing.php

"How the Blogosphere is Killing Obama"

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Too bad you can't edit the title. I have a feeling that the Clinton supporters will dismiss your post as another rant by an "Obamaniac", "Obamaton" or whatever other word is the "nom du jour" for the "Obama cult"

BTW - I'm an Obama supporter - thank you for this thoughtful post that highlights why you think he is the better candidate, despite their narrow policy differences.

By the way, I know I had my share of zings here. As long as it's not unconscionably snide (i.e., leave alone Obama's supporters), please feel free to lampoon my candidate liberally.

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Our views on every count are totally divergent. I don't know if I'll have time to address everything but do as much as I can. I'll start with inspiration. I don't find Obama inspiring. Different strokes for different folks I guess. The more "inspiring" he gets the more bored i get. I'm just not into pep rally type politics.

But even if I found him inspiring it wouldn't matter or affect my decision in any way. Inspiration cannot last when real policies are implemented. You can't inspire someone to act contrary to their perceived self interest. The coalition he's building by inspiring people is inherently unstable. Republicans, independents, and progressives do not share the same policy goals. If he follows a progressive path he will lose the republicans and independents and therefore the power to make the changes he supposes will come from his grassroots support. His best bet to maintain that support would be to chart a moderate course and convince the progressives to accept it. That might work but it would not be acceptable to me.

I disagree with his stance on meeting without preconditions. First, you seem to be implying there is a choice between meeting without preconditions or not talking at all. This is a false dichotomy. There can be negotiations and diplomacy without presidential meetings. That's what Hillary is suggesting. She suggest a presidential meeting may happen but only after agrees upon preconditions.

Now I want you to know that I'm not just repeating Hillary talking points. This is something I've considered over the years as events or my reading sparked contemplation of the issue. The first time I considered the issue was when Nixon opened the doors to China. I read the discussions at the time and the pros and cons of his plan. The last time I thought about it was about 3 years ago. Juan Cole, a middle east expert of a liberal bent who writes a blog, informed comment, discussed the issue of opening connections with Iran.

He thought it was stupid for the US to not talk with Iran. He also thought it a mistake for the president to meet without preconditions. For Americans, we may not think a meeting between two presidents is a very big deal and for us, that may be true. After all Iran is barely the size of one of our larger states. But to countries like Iran a meeting with the president of the United States is a huge propaganda coup. It strengthens the power of that regime and therefore weakens the influence of those elements within the country that are agitating for greater freedoms and democratic reforms.

His opinion, and I agree, was to follow the Nixon model. He suggested a seemingly meaningless sporting event, like a soccer match instead of the ping pong match we had with china. Lower level diplomats would begin preliminary discussions behind the scenes with their counterparts in Iran. Then a series of cultural exchanges and intellectual exchanges, conventions with professors from Iranian and American colleges. All the while diplomats are meeting behind the scenes continuing discussions. Only when adequate preconditions are met would there be a presidential meeting.

At the very least there must be something like a public meeting between the president and influential leaders of the opposition seeking democratic reforms. That would help to balance out the propaganda coup of the visit to the leaders of the country. You might ask why can't Obama visit and while there meet with the opposition. There are no civil liberties in Iran. They will simply be put under house arrest for the duration of the visit and Obama by agreeing without preconditions would now have to give up something to buy the meeting with the opposition. This is how negotiations work.

Quite frankly, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Obama will ever agree to a presidential meeting without preconditions. It was a rookie's mistake and I think he knows it. He was asked a question and since he hadn't thought the issue through deeply and he favors negotiation he answered sloppily. In the last debate I watched him explain his position and it seemed to me he was rationalizing to justify the previous answer. Obviously he couldn't admit he was mistaken. If he hasn't already figured it out when he puts his team together the more experienced foreign policy experts will explain it to him.

Its a small mistake, but significant. The religious oligarchs who run that country are no fools and they are paying attention. I have little doubt they will instruct their figure head, Ahmadinejad, to publicly request a meeting with the president soon after he's sworn in. If obama agrees they get a free victory, greater popularity among the common people of the country, and can more forcefully deal with those agitating for freedom. If Obama refuses they get a victory because they can now say look, told you the Americans were deceitful. Increased distrust of America within Iran increases their power. So Obama can neither refuse nor agree, he must delay. And he must negotiate and give up something before the visit even begins. What, I don't know, it depends on how much Iran wants the meeting. They have the upper hand. (ever play chess?)

Its pretty obvious to me that Hillary is much more knowledgeable about policy issues. I was for Edwards and I watched the debate with the 3 of them, pulling for my guy. I was shocked and disappointed to see both Barack and Hillary make poor John look like a dunce. But Hillary was brilliant. Maybe its because she was hanging around the White House watching all the stupid mistakes Bill made and talking about them with the experts as they were happening. Bill was as inexperienced in foreign policy as Obama. Maybe its just because she's had 14 more years than Obama to study. Many of those 14 more years without a child to raise. Who knows. I certainly don't buy the my husband's experience is my own line. But its pretty clear to me that the depth, breath, and sophistication of hillary's policy analysis exceeds Obama's.

Well, Joe, that's all I have time for now. Sorry I couldn't hit all your points. Hope this helps you understand a bit as to why i support Hillary. Looking forward to your response.

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I understand Obama's superficial appeal to you, and I'm still thinking about that. In the meantime, however, I want to focus on one Obama vs. Clinton myth.

Hillary is a little too hawkish for my tastes.

This is at the top of my list too, only for my taste, Obama is the one who is much too hawkish. I am not opposed to all wars, he says repeatedly, making sure we don't mistake him for the old-school cut-and-run wimpy Dem.

In fact, Obama's August 2007 speech The War We Need to Win sounds exactly like a continuation of neocon war rhetoric to me. When you look past Obama's lyric embellishments, you will find the very same neocon appeal to patriotism and cheap scare tactics, starting with eloquently jerking our 9/11 chain. Read the speech, and if you're interested in a detailed analysis, I've analyzed the first third of the speech on Booman Tribune. You'll see why I didn't bother with the remaining two-thirds of the speech.

Since this speech, I listen very carefully to Obama's words about foreign (and domestic) policy. Time and again I hear him articulate alarmingly conservative views. That is why, I believe, many conservatives and hawks like him. And it is one compelling reason why I don't.

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Good Lord, a profundity from a clintonoid. The world remains a place of wonder.

readytoblowagasket writes:

Obama's August 2007 speech The War We Need to Win sounds exactly like a continuation of neocon war rhetoric to me.

We are clearly losing in Afghanistan too because of a lack of understanding of the people and the culture. Maybe it must be ever thus with imperial powers.

More hawkish than Lady MacBeth? Hardly. You can only expect little miracles from wingers but any is startling.

Congratulations, blowngasket. Ya done good for a change.

Best, Terry

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Good Lord, a profundity from a clintonoid. The world remains a place of wonder.

You know what, "Best, Terry"? Your stunningly lazy spin on my comment is why I was reluctant to comment at all. It's not possible to have a discussion when @sshats like you hijack the thread to keep things on a superficial level.

Did I say anything about Afghanistan? Nope! That's because I'm not presenting an argument about Afghanistan.

I said Obama sounds like a hawk based on his own comments and speeches. A valid response to the OP.

Yet to critique my comment, you picked one topic—Afghanistan—out of Obama's speech to hint at your superior understanding of history. While some people may be impressed with that trick, I'm not. I don't often read your comments, and now I know why I shouldn't.

Do people generally know that Obama wants to redeploy 100,000 troops to Afghanistan? I have found that no, they don't.

Where are these troops going to come from? Iraq? NATO? Good fvcking luck with that, Obama.

If you'd like to critique my analysis of Obama's warlike rhetoric, Terry, feel free to address the Booman Tribune comments I made. Otherwise, go jack off on someone else's comment.

Logical arguments tied to actual facts scares certain people - disregard the recoil. Good job.

I'd also recommend for those who missed the genesis of this post - go to JSmith0316's piece where there was a civilized dialogue - wherein Clinton supporters seemed to appreciate the level of discourse. Joe participated - and we all played nice in the sandbox. So before getting all bent about his title - please try to soak up some of the good-will over there - that I believe he was merely trying to expand on.

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Why do I think that Obama folk using this type of language developed an interest in playing nice in the sandbox only when it dawned on them that Obama might win the primary after having incensed enough voters that he couldn't win in the GE? That the Republicans and Independents and the people who have just discovered politics are not necessarily that stable or loyal in their candidate choices and may go over to McCain and he will need the Democratic Party activists who have been supporting Hillary? That he would need the votes of the older women? How many times can he implicitly call women old aunties in their views (older women were politically informed about Reagan when Obama was still cooing about the meticulous tidiness of military bases -- from Audacity and don't buy his jejune notion that Reagan was about ideas) and expect them to vote for him. How many times can they listen to his phony claims that opposition to him is racist in which every slip of the tongue is construed as evidence of a deep seated plan to awaken racism in this country? Can't you just imagine what he would have said if any Clinton supporter had call Wright 'Uncle'?

If you work to elect warmongers I too tend to have a suspicion that you too are a warmonger.

I read the title of your post, then the comments, and then hit the first term used for Hillary and remain confirmed that I will never vote for Obama.

Just to make it clear, the "Clintonista" bit is something like "Sandinista", and I imagine it came as one of this dismissive "liberals are Marxists" tags that right-wingers love, such as saying "Demorats", spelling the U.N. "Un" and other such clever grade-schoolisms. It's also code-word for shady nepotism, which the Noriegas were rather prone to, not that anyone in Nicaragua was much better.

Anyway, looks like the discussion got back on track.

Ah, I see. I didn't realize that, although I should've known better. Again, apologies.

terryhallinan,

how exactly does Obama sound "alarmingly conservative" in his speech about the Afghanistan war? I really can't see it at all, sorry.

Well, I throw down my sword on that issue. You're right, preconditions are important and I consider myself thoroughly schooled.

But that still doesn't change the fact that Hillary's foreign policy approach, for all her commendable knowledge, is *seemingly* hawkish and standoffish. I don't want to hang up too much on a statement like "you need a leader who can bring arrows and the olive branch," but it seems telling of where she stands on hostile countries. Hillary, for all her advocacy of good causes like children's health, has a reputation for being a hawk. I'll never know whether her Iraq War vote was sheer expediency or personal conviction, but it says something about a person who views the military as a threat instead of a means. Again, the implication of the 3am ad was that America is imperiled by outside enemies and Hillary is the one to keep our country "safe." I think we have more enemies now than we did, but mind you that we've made so many of them in the name of national security. I'm not saying Hillary is going to bomb Iran, but to hear her talk about Russia and Serbia (yes, I know they attacked our embassy, but still) makes me take pause. I really would like to avoid a combative foreign policy approach.

I'm also aware Obama is not a peacenik, as can be discerned from his stances on Afghanistan and Pakistan. But I think his judgment about the military is a little more cautious. He doesn't strike me as a saber-rattler, while Hillary (and I'm aware this could be a misconception) sort of does.

But you're right. I think the main issue here is "different strokes for different folks." I prefer incentives to mandates, because I'm not so enamored by the principle of universal health care as I am attracted to the feasible reality of quality, affordable healthcare vis-a-vis incentives. I think Obama's healthcare plan is more appealing to less-progressive parties. It approaches consensus by taking a more moderate path. Now, you've said you don't want a moderate approach. But I'd prefer post-partisan moderate policy than partisan progressivism, mainly because I think universal healthcare is a polarizing plan and there's no guarantee that it would stick under embittered incumbent administration. For some things, I agree, we need a progressive approach. But we should strive to make healthcare less of a "progressive" agenda, and more of a rational one.

I'm not saying Obama WILL bring all this about, but I'll take the gamble. Ultimately, however, I think both candidates are strong and accomplished in their own regard, and ultimately I am casting a blue vote in November.

Sad. Hillary could still take this, and I'd still vote for her. I'm not cutting off my nose to spite my face.

Good post, and you can call me a Clintonista if I can call you an Obamanoid.

I've already made the case for Clinton on this site a bunch of times. I see what you're saying about Obama but a lot of his charisma strikes me as problematic -- it's Oprah Winfrey style charisma to my ears. It's platitudes. It's a lot of nice talk about getting along when getting along is the least of our issues.

I just don't think that he realizes that we're in the middle of a war between the parties here and that we're at war for good reason.

Haha, yeah, you can call me and Obamanoid. I think it is more than simple platitudes, but I get where you're coming from. Ultimately, for two candidates who share a good deal of similarities on most stances, it comes down to a matter of vision and the *chance* for a more post-partisan future or a completely sensible retreat to what's most likely to work. I guess I'm just willing to roll the dice on Obama, although Hillary would be a fine candidate, too.

I do wish she'd stop talking about ducking sniper fire in the Balkans, though.

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I support Clinton because I'm a racist. Doesn't everyone?

I went to a fundraiser for Charlie Brown (CA-04) hosted by Joe Wilson in December. Joe's son is working on Charlie's campaign. It was a fabulous opportunity to speak with Joe at length about his wife, his relationship w/ Poppy bush, Iraq and why he supports Hillary. Hillary has a deep and balanced understanding of diplomacy and how to use it wisely.

Obama's position was stated in a moment of weakness- he simply hadn't thought it through enough, and now he has to defend it at all costs just like HRC had to stick with her stupid Iraq vote. They were both errors of judgement. they are both human beings folks.

What Joe told us about HRC's plans diplomatically were truly inspiring and very progressive and not at all hawkish. The specifics gave me chills- in a good way!. I won't repeat them
here because it is too early but I was inspired by the brilliance and the vision. let's just say "cowboy diplomacy" is out the window and she has an excellent plan to make it so.

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