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TPM Dems Who Act Superior and Sanctimonious are NOT HELPING
I consider myself an independent voter. I live in Texas, a red state, and have recently decided to give all my support to Democratic candidates in order to repudiate George Bush and the Republican Party.
I have something to say. Rather than compose a new post, I'll just copy some comments I've encountered in a recent thread. I refer to Gary Rees's post from March 7 (in case you're curious). Also, you might be interested in strvu9's post from March 10.
I appreciate your consideration.
TPM Reader Blog Post by strvu9:
By - March 10, 2008, 6:25PM
Reading some of the stuff on here today (especially suggestions that Hillary is somehow culpable in the Spitzer problems!) has actually left me feeling sick to my stomach!
Maybe I'll come back in a few days , maybe after the nomination has been settled but , like I've said before, I am an undecided Democratic Voter who is currently so disgusted by some of my fellow Democrats I feel like I have morning sickness! And it's late afternoon!
stravu9,
Yeah, I feel you. Sometimes I have to just take a break and get away from the snark and the mean-spiritedness too.
There are a lot of posters here with nasty personal axes to grind, but there are a lot of nice people here too. It just starts feeling like you have to step over a lot of manure to get to the occasional flower patch.
It's gotten a bit toxic here. Take a break, cleanse and refortify, and come back soon.
:-)
Posted by laurajordanMarch 10, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
And lots of posters here that spew sugar-coated venom while they complain about vinegar.
This must be an example of that "Change you can Believe in."
Don't let them run you off
Posted by workerbeeMarch 10, 2008 7:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I catch your reference workerbee. Okay, I'll engage.
My comments are genuine...both to strvu9 and to you. Go back and read the thread you were posting on a couple of days ago. I did. You were definitely stirring people up with your gratuitous insults. I begain by asking you to stop because it's not helpful. You responded by insulting me and continuing to shower insults on people on down the thread. GMan's post was a thoughtful one about the importance of voting for the party's candidate, whoever it might be. He (and I) spend a lot of time reminding Obama supporters to cool off, be rational, and remember what's important. You were undermining that with your sanctimony and personal attacks. So I concluded that you enjoy insulting people. I call that acting like an asshole.
You think I'm not a good enough Democrat, and you're a much better one? That's how you come across.
I live in a red state that's trying to build a stronger Democratic Party. It's difficult here. We try to entice independents and former Republicans, and we don't do it by being sanctimonious and preaching to them about how emotionally immature they are (even if it's how we might feel). It might feel good to blow off steam, but IT'S NOT HELPFUL.
Maybe you don't live in the same situation. Do you live in a 'blue' state? I can tell you that your anger (which I don't question the 'righteousness' of) and nastiness would not be helpful--in fact, it's the kind of thing that has independents running from us in droves.
So I asked you to consider the overall usefulness of your comments and you refused, choosing to insult us further. Go back and read the thread and think about whether your comments are helpful.
Posted by laurajordanMarch 10, 2008 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Comments (14)
One of the most difficult things to discern on political blogs is motive. Not everyone posting here is a Progressive. Some aren't even Democrats. The Hillary bashers and Obama bashers are often here just to stir up trouble. We had the same problem four years ago on the MoveOn forum. By November, the site was overrun with Freepers and other trolls. It's a maxim on the net that the only effective way to handle trolls is to ignore them. What are they up to? I have a theory. Almost everyone posting here has made up their mind by now -- except people who may have been in a coma over the last month. Having said that, I know I will offense to one or two people who really haven't made up their minds, and, possibly to someone who has actually been in a coma. But, in a world where most people have made up their minds, what do we get out of posting and commenting on posts? A feeling of community.
So I think the aim of the trolls is to destroy that sense of community. And the community is what we need to hold on to -- each of us for our own reasons.
Communal, ideological and combative. That's how Harold Rosenberg described the avant garde. I think the regulars at TPM are an avant garde. Communal, ideological and combative. Not all conflict is bad. We've got the ideological and combative part down already. After we pick a nominee, we'll get the communal part down, and then shame on John McCain.
Will the Freepers and trolls go away then? No. They'll turn up in force.
March 10, 2008 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad to see someone remembers the freepers. Free Republic is still around and they haven't gone anywhere. If anything, they've gotten more clever.
March 10, 2008 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Billy Glad,
What's a progressive other than a "not liberal" today?
Hillary herself says she is a progressive rather than a liberal and has fully proven she is no liberal by any stretch of definition despite preposterous claims by the like of Cokie Roberts and other MSM dimwits. Hillary is certainly no progressive either but the term has been degraded to become nearly meaningless.
Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive and a Republican as well as a polar opposite of Hillary Clinton. His wars with the corporate interests and lobbyists led to the Bull Moose Party and a break for the Democrats.
The Clintons should be arrested for impersonating Democrats in my view. They are little different from the Bushes.
Best, Terry
March 11, 2008 7:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
This concern trolling has gotten way out of hand.
March 10, 2008 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's concern trolling?
March 10, 2008 10:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
concern about maybe?
March 10, 2008 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pretending to agree with the ends of a web community while secretly working to underminethem by expressing false concern about their tactics.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=concern+troll
I think the poster who accused you of being a concern troll is trolling by making false acusations of trolling. What should we call that? Troll trolling? We realy do not have to call it anything we just have to quit responding to anyone that we believe is a troll.
March 11, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for reading and responding, Billy.
Say, you live in Texas, don't you? Perhaps you can relate to my situation.
What happened to your avatar???
March 10, 2008 10:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
The other one was pissing people off.
March 10, 2008 10:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
:-D
I liked it.
March 10, 2008 11:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure I've done my fair share of "stirring the pot."
We are all passionate people here, and there is a lot at stake.
I try to remember that before I post, but not always.
Thanks for the post, laurajordan, as a fellow Texan I agree with you.
March 11, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad I'm not the only one who is thinking like this. If I remember back when I was in school, I sort of look at this like the perceptions of media bias. You know, bias is relative to how sure you are of your position - the more sure you are, the more bias you are going to see trying to change your position. It's a strange little effect that's been more than documented. I bring this up because the virulent reactions I sometimes see on this site only serve to make me think that people are absolutely sure of the positions they've taken because they see themselves being attacked and feel the need to attack back. (Rather than falling back on logic or points or evidence, which is my cup of tea.) This worries me when I think about unity because of people are so convinced between these two, and there essentially has to be one who wins... How do we ever come back from that?
Thanks for this post. And for thinking I'm funny (in that other thread). Look forward to reading more.
March 11, 2008 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
My complements on your adopted middle name.
March 11, 2008 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just started reading this blog recently (mid-February), and this is my first post. I just wanted to say that I really appreciated this post. The primary and the hype around it have been getting really nasty lately, and I really hope that the Democratic party and all of its members can pull together after so much divisive media attention.
I'll admit that, as an avid Obama supporter, I have been thinking of deserting the Democratic party if Hillary wins. I still don't want it to come down to that, but your words have helped me decide not to throw away my vote. I hope that whoever wins, they can pull the country together and calm the vitriolic and violently partisan political climate in America today. We need people like you to help us remember that everyone has good reasons for supporting their candidate, and that rational debate will always be more beneficial than mindless bickering.
March 11, 2008 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
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