Welcome, Red!

As a 57 year old white female and a feminist, I understand your journey.

Let me share a similar story from a woman who called into Randi Rhodes' show after the speech: she, too, had been on the fence. She liked HIllary's healthcare plan better, she liked Obama better on Iraq and foreign policy. But after hearing the speech, she realized that the presidency was about so much more than just a laundry list of issues. And she got off the fence and squarely into Obama's camp.

The sniping and parsing have started. However, nothing can take away that this man is a leader. He has faced a crisis with intelligence, clarity and authenticity. He didn't dodge, he didn't cave to the Sean Hannitys of the world (no amount of apology or throwing under the bus would suit them). It was bold, courageous and held a mirror to all of us, but with respect and compassion.

I don't know how it will play out -- forces are immense against Obama becoming president. But the other two candidates in contrast are, at best, mediocre and will forever appear that way, even if the country takes the "safe" road.

Obama continues to surprise me, challenge me, exceed my expectations. It would be a privilege to call him my president.

(no amount of apology or throwing under the bus would suit them)

- why didn't he confront Rev Wright during their 20 year friendship? If he did, why wouldn't he say so?

It's my impression that Obama has the kind of relationship with Wright where they would have talked and disagreed and debated these issues and attitudes many times. But these discussions would have taken place in a loving, grown up way, not in the "you must change or I'm taking my toys and going home" way that so many seem to think appropriate.

Also, a point that seems to be stubbornly ignored by many is that Wright is ever so much more than just these snippets of sermons. Frankly, there are a whole lot of things to talk about and work on in an urban church, the vast majority of which are not going to make it onto Fox News because they're not incendiary.

why didn't he confront Rev Wright during their 20 year friendship? If he did, why wouldn't he say so?

Here is what I think the answer to this question.

Obama, I believe, is the ultimate pragmatist. He is thoughtful, able to listen to and integrate multiple views on a subject, identify root issues, and take practical steps to address those root issues. That seems to be his modus operandi.

For all the media's focus on Obama's speeches and oratory skills, I truly believe that Obama cares much more about "deeds" than "words". He said as much in the speech on Tuesday, and I think ultimately that is the reason that he maintained his associations with Trinity Church and, for that matter, the reason that he joined it to begin with. Without deeds to back up the words, the church is nothing more than an empty vessel.

But he also understands that blacks of Rev. Wright's generation carry with them bitterness and anger over the way they were treated in the past. And, I believe, Obama thinks they have a right to express that anger, even if he personally does not share it. It is, after all, a real part of their lives and thus a real part of the community. It is something that has to be accounted for and dealt with if there is to be any hope of progress. To sweep it under the rug is not helpful. To deny that generation the right to express anger would be patronizing and disrespectful.

But, as the pragmatist he is, what matters more than sermons is what the church is actually doing to help the lives of the people in the community. That is the bottom line. And by any account Trinity has done, and continues to do, a lot to help the community.

If, on the other hand, Obama saw that Wright's fiery sermons were counterproductive, and producing damaging effects on the community like hate crimes and violence, I believe strongly that Obama would have confronted the pastor about it, and left - or never joined - the church.

Why? Because such effects would have been antagonist to very things Obama was trying to accomplish in the community. If that had been the case, Obama would have looked at Wright as an obstacle to be cleared, not as an ally to his cause.

"why didn't he confront Rev Wright during their 20 year friendship? If he did, why wouldn't he say so?"

Because if we've learned anything about Obama, it's that he's not confrontational, at least not in the "put up your dukes" kind of way that seems to be in vogue currently. He listens, watches, draws his conclusions, takes his time, and responds in a thoughtful measured way. And I'm sure, if he's had conversations with Rev Wright about his values and rhetoric, that he considers them private. Isn't that a courtesy we'd all expect as well?

He's less concerned with scoring points than achieving consensus and results. Unlike some presidents, and some candidates, I could mention...

Thank you, Red, and welcome.

Nice Comments Red but lets face it. The speech WAS political. Are you so easily swayed? He HAD to make that kind of speech. My problem now and will always be. He was in that church for 20 years with not so much as a peep. I am Catholic. When I heard not from the pulpit but the papers of the scandal concerning children by some priests do you not think I had a direct reaction? Didn't all catholics whether they were in the effected parishes or not? He proved he is a politician plain and simple. Most of you really don't see him as that and that is a shame. He is simply a politician.

Redhead, an open letter asking her to resign and thats not a repudiation of Sen. Clinton as a Candidate? That she can't win? Do you know something the rest of the world doesn't? Looks like to me this will go into the convention when anything is surely possible. Hello Mr. Humphrey. Hell we could come out with another candidate altogether. Why are we so eager to rush into this now that it has been already turned into a circus.

Lastly, I know I have been beating this dead horse but I believe its such an important part of our future. Whites and Blacks have to realize there is a larger and much faster growing than either of our populations. We have to take the blinders off and see our Country as it is. Not has it used to be. I am afraid that Sen. Obama is stuck in that yesterday world as surely as some of the more vociferous folks are here. I urge you to take those blinders off and go into your local hotel, your favorite eating estblishments kitchen, to any construction site and see who is there. They need to be included in all of our conversations and not again be marginalized as so many seem to want to do. We bog ourselves down in the past to our peril

Right on, I have felt that bringing up Wright's sermons and attaching them to Obama is insane logic. I know I do not always agree with my church's teachings, especially on a woman's right to choice and women in the clergy ( I am an Eastern Orthodox), but just because my priest or bishop gives a sermon doesn't mean I am going to walk out or argue with him if I don't agree. I have a very right wing uncle who I love very deeply, and I know better than to argue with him, because his beliefs are so entrenched. I have learned it is better to teach him by my example and to stand by my liberal beliefs.
I have been troubled by the constant harping on the race issue. I grew up in the Chicago suburban area and knew one black person.Not until I was an adult and went to college with a large number of black students from Chicago (NIU Huskies, rock on) and later moved to the TwinCities and lived in a racially diverse neighborhood and opened a business in the city did I know more people of color. My sons have grown up in an environment of racial diversity and have friends that are black, hispanic and asian and gay. When I was their age 19 and 21, that was almost unheard of. Yes, race is the big elephant in the room and predjudice is the other elephant that my generation refuses to address( I am 51) in politics. But, my children's generation has accepted race and they do not accept the divisions. I see the young people that are supporting Barack as a part of us who no longer want to live with the divide. They see us as that nation that there will always be differences, by our ethnic orgins or our beliefs or our politics. But,they know we can come together as a people and provide all the fundamental rights a human being should recieve in America, health care, an affordable education, shelter and the opportunity to earn a decent wage. We can come together and restore the Constitution and America's standing in the eyes of the rest of the world. I wish everyone could have seen the caucuses in MN and the turnout and the landslide for Obama, not only in the cities, but in the suburb where I now live. Areas that were pretty reliably republican have started polling Democrat since 2004. It is in these areas that the grassroots of change are occuring and this is just the beginning. It is inevitable, while people like HRC and the republicans continue to divide us by either our race, our religion or geographic area and evade the real issues, the economy, the war, health care and housing and credit crisis, nothing will change and the gap between the haves and the have-nots will grow.

olwhitelady,

The only problem is that you aren't saying your rw uncle isn't your spiritual leader in the world. That he brought you into the thought processes that you have now. You surely didn't write a book based off of him.

I think it laughable that you and Obamaistas won't or find it difficult to concede that Sen. Clinton is the person that has talked about and offered ways to solve health care, education, the enviroment, sexism, racism, our world standing.

I just wonder why you all hate her more than you do the Republicans

Merlot,

On the previous. I am not us/them at all. I am "WE".. the whole We. I am sorry but I have read posts and ideas on this blog and others and I find that its just not our generation that is bogged in the past. We've got to find a way to inlcude all the shades of who we are in how our country moves forward.

It just saddens me that every 4 years we spend our time on this subject when there is so much more to be done.

We waist more time on this when there are kids being killed in Iraq. There is genocide in Africa, the Balkans, China. We have no standing in the world community. We leave Europe unchallenged in their lack of helping solve the issues that they were responsible for creating. We have people going broke each and every day here. Sheriff's showing up at houses in the Slavic Village in Cleveland daily. Poverty in Native Communities has reached crisis proportions. ......And we are debating whether it was great speech or not. Sad indictment of who we are today. And, yes, I point at myself.

Its ok to say AIDS is manmade? To push forward rumor as fact? Wow. If you can find one scientific journal that relates that AIDS is manmade maybe you have point. But there is none.

A Minister or man of god has a responsibility to think and well as talk. To teach the Gospel and act the Gospel on a daily basis. If all this was a silly misunderstanding...the coverup speech wouldn't have been necessary

Merlot, make it a Black and Tan..with a side saddle of Makers and your on. :)

Sorry to point this out, but YOU ARE A LIAR!
I remembered your screen name and , When I was undecided, thought I remembered you were for Obama. Then I pulled your profile and saw your post where you encouraged Hillary to bow out!
You are no new convert, you have been an Obama supporter for a long time now.
This bothers me because Mr. Obama's speech really DID cause me to choose his side and your lie cheapens my decision.
Besides, liars just suck.
Democrats aren't supposed to do it!
That's a Republican trick!

Donna,

No doubt the reverend is carrying around scars. No one could be that vitriolic in thier sermons without some personal problems of the past. However, at the same time someone with the intelligence of Sen. Obama should have been swift enough to recognize this flaw and act accordingly as any thoughtful human would. Reverend Wright has every right to say what he does and hold those ideals and I will go to my death defending such rights. Thats true. Its quite another thing to say that I will vote for a follower of his that should know the difference between opinions and hate speech.

Did we all not vilify any Republican candidate that said they were a follower of Falwell, Baker, Swaggert et al?

Why is it so hard for people to understand the cause of Reverend Wright's fury. I understand it. It is a universal human reaction to having been enslaved and shamed up to the present day.

On Easter Week of 1916 an Irish Rebel Leader led a symbolic rebellion against a tyrannical regime. He wrote the following before going out to fight and die. Like this Irish Rebel Leader, Reverend Wright is just another answer to the poet's question: "What happens to a dream deferred".

Here is one thing that did happen during Easter 1916 in Dublin.

THE REBEL

I am come of the seed of the people, the people that sorrow,
That have no treasure but hope,
No riches laid up but a memory
Of an Ancient glory.
My mother bore me in bondage, in bondage my mother was born,
I am of the blood of serfs;
The children with whom I have played,
the men and women with whom I have eaten
Have had masters over them, have been under the lash of masters,
And, though gentle, have served churls;
Their hands that have touched mine,
the dear hands whose touch is familiar to me,
Have worn shameful manacles,
have been bitten at the wriest by manacles
Have grown hard with the manacles and the task-work of strangers.
I am flesh of the flesh of these lowly, I am bone of their bone,
I that have never submitted;
I that have a soul greater than the souls of my people’s masters
I that have vision and prophecy and the gift of fiery speech,
I that have spoken with God on the top of His holy hill.

And because I am of the people, I understand the people,
I am sorrowful with their sorrow, I am hungry with their desire:
My heart has been heavy with the grief of mothers,
My eyes have been wet with the tears of children,
I have yearned with old wistful men,
And laughed or cursed with young men,

Their shame is my shame, and I have reddened for it,
Reddened for that they have served, they who should be free,
Reddened for that they have gone in want,
while others have been full,
Reddened for that they have walked in fear of lawyers and of their jailers
With their writs of summons and their handcuffs,
Men mean and cruel!
I could have borne stripes on my body
rather than this shame of my people.

And now I speak, being full of vision;
I speak to my people,
and I speak in my people’s name to the masters of my people.
I say to my people that they are holy, that they are august,
despite their chains,
That they are greater than those that hold them, and stronger and purer,
That they have but need of courage,
and to call on the name of their God,
God the unforgetting, the dear God that loves the peoples
For whom He died naked, suffering shame.
And I say to my people’s masters: Beware,
Beware of the thing that is coming,
beware of the risen people,
Who shall take what ye would not give.
Did ye think to conquer the people,
Or that Law is stronger than life and than men’s desire to be free?
We will try it out with you, ye that have harried and held,
Ye that have bullied and bribed,
tyrants, hypocrites, liars!

Patrick Pearse

Liam, I've seen stretches but getting Patrick Pearse and Wright together is about as far as I've seen one. Think you were trying for the 3 point shot but put it into the seats...good luck next time.

Red: eloquently spoken.

The replies -- and I read every single one -- likewise.

The conversation is refreshing, encouraging and intelligent.

Thank you.

For the past two years or so, I read articles, op-eds, transcripts, opinions etc... I watched the debates, I listened to interviews. Although I was heavily leaning toward Obama within the first 6 months or less, I was still interested in the other candidates. Shortly thereafter it became clear the