If Hilary isn't trashing anyone, I'd hate to see her when she does.

If Obama has no original ideas, why does his whole approach--starting with the speech at the last convention--seem like such a breath of fresh air? At a minimum, though Obama didn't invent inclusiveness and tolerance, he is at least trying to bring them back after they went out of style.

Obama is anathema because of Wright. Lots of us simple folk went to all-white Southern Baptist churches where the good reverends preached hatred of the different and screamed every Sunday that we were going to hell. Based on their ravings, are we all anathema? For decency's sake, you must concede that Hilary's pastor has an ounce of human kindness in coming to Wright's defense and not demanding that Obama face eternal damnation by association.

He can't win in December, though he does better than Hilary in almost every poll, despite every vile thing she can think of to say. Meanwhile, her negatives rise. Why could that be?

Can Hilary united anybody to try to accomplish some positive thing, or only try to destroy anyone and everyone in her path? What is Hilary going to contribute to the Democratic Party and this country other than competent policies and fulminating malice?

Obviously, Louisville, you are not going to be persuaded by anything I say.

But regarding electability: it's not up to Hillary to decide who is electable. It is up to the voters, and they have pretty much decided, are deciding, and, barring being overruled by superdelegates, will decide. It really doesn't matter what Hillary's opinion is.

Regarding original ideas: I disagree entirely with what you wrote about Obama, but it is all irrelevant at this point. Right now, all that is left is numbers. Hillary had plenty of time to persuade the American people with the dazzle of her ideas. Now it is too late for that, the numbers have been added up, and she can't win.

Regarding Wright: again, the voters seem to have decided. Remember them? They seem to understand Obama's position on race, and they are not getting stuck on the sound bites of the Right. Furthermore, for Hillary to continue to push this is totally hypocritical. Either Bill Clinton is not who he has been alleged to be in terms of his relationship with black America (which is possible) or (and/or) he and she understand perfectly well what Wright was saying, and how it was taken out of context.

My point about her being an outsider was simply, if she were, she would have more justification to trash the party. However, having been well-served by the Democratic party, for her now to put her personal ambition above the party is pretty despicable. (Neither is Obama an outsider; but he is treating the party with respect, so it is not the issue.)

My overall point was, it is now about the voters and the numbers. Without extraordinary justification, I do not think Hillary is entitled to continue to campaign. And I see no extraordinary justification, except her extreme desire to be president.

I actually sympathize with her disappointment. At another time, I might be supporting her. The thing is, right now, to face the numbers. Obama has them and she doesn't. The numbers are just not there. Unless she can come up with a better reason for staying in than she has so far, she needs to get out.

Truly it was noble of Hilary to ensure that no nonDemocrats voted for Obama at the caucuses and county conventions. Strange that her minions were not concerned about whether Hilary's supporters at caucuses were members of the party, no?

Do you applaud Republicans for forcing all black people to drive past state police and humiliating challenges to exercise their right to vote? General elections are for registered voters. The Republicans are as noble in their devotion to democracy ass Hilary in the fierce focus on voters likely to support the other side.

When Ted Kennedy went to the convention, our party lost the general election. Harold Ickes was working for Ted Kennedy at the time and is for Hilary now. It isn't as if Hilary's campaign doesn't know what is at risk. They have just decided it's worth risking the loss of this election to get the nomination for Hilary, and, if Obama gets the nomination, to ensure that he loses.

As for electoral votes, why does Obama do better vs. McCain in more states, including big ones, than Hilary does? How do you nominate a woman who is losing in almost every poll except a few select places, and driving her own negatives through the roof, alienating half the Democrats and most independents while already loathed by Republicans everywhere?

You are saying the party can't unite behind Obama because you and other Hilary supporters will never stand for it. That is a shame but so be it.

Again, tell me how Hilary brings us together? Obama's objective is to reach out and unite. Odds are against his succeeding thanks to Hilary. Fine. How is Hilary going to restore the unity she shattered? Where is her vision for anything other than tearing down her opponent? Where is yours?

Those are good arguments depending on the nature of the campaign. I agree Hilary should not be forced out, and certainly not by Obama supporters, sassi2j. I agree it is good to let more people vote.

That's true unless the campaign that continues is waged in such a divisive and destructive way that neither Hilary nor Obama has a chance in November. In fact, if Hilary hadn't taken such a destructive, divisive approach, most of us would have been happy for her to win the nomination and the White House.

The two examples I cited--Texas vote suppression and an implied women's boycott of Obama--are divisive and destructive for both Hilary and Obama. Your rebuttal failed to address that issue. Is it your position that all's fair, regardless of the consequences? That Obama deserves the worst she can do to him, so she should go at it?

I would contrast Hilary's manner of staying in with Huckabee's in the Republican nominating process. Huckabee tried to convince people he had more to offer. Hilary is trying to convince people that Obama is not even a viable candidate--that delegates have no alternative but to choose her because Obama can't win, can't be commander-in-chief, can't stand up to the Republicans, has a million skeletons in his closet that will come out through the Republican attack machine--as though the Republican hit men care whether any accusation is true; there'll be appalling charges from the Swiftboat crowd against Hilary or Obama, no matter what.

Obama will be painted as a Muslim. Hilary will be exposed as a lesbian, according to my Republican neighbors. They can hardly wait to see the job that will be done on Hilary and every friend or roommate she ever had. In no time, the Republicans will be saying anybody who has a Hilary bumper sticker or plans to vote for Hilary is gay or lesbian. That's always been part of the subtext of Republican attacks on feminists so get ready for it now.

Does the fact that Republican hatemongers will hurl such charges mean Hilary should withdraw? Neither should Obama give up because Hilary says he can't withstand the Swiftboaters and implies they will have plenty of ammunition.

What's the point of saying the Democratic Party's leading candidate is fatally flawed and can't win? Can't Hilary just make the case that she has more to offer the country and then abide by the voters judgment?

She actually was first to define her ideas on the Economy, Health Care, The War, you name it. I asked Ann and I will ask you. What original idea has he brought to the table that separates him from not only Hillary but McCain as well.