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McCain isn't a viable choice for Clinton Backers
I'm responding a bit to an errant comment here -- a Hillary supporter said that he/she would vote for McCain in the general unless Hillary won the primary. I think it was an idle threat and thought I'd quickly point out why.
One of the things that we Hillary supporters have contributed to the primary is an attention to policy detail. We're supposed to be the "policy matters" crowd and it's because of us that there can be public dust ups over who has mandates in their health plan and who doesn't.
If being a Hillary supporter means being a policy person then you can't vote for John McCain even if the convention delegates decide to dump both Clinton and Obama in favor of a surprise Leonardo Di Caprio long shot run.
Here's why:
You support Hillary because she believes in withdrawing troops from Iraq as soon as possible. John McCain believes that "as soon as possible" means 100 years.
You support Hillary because you believe in universal healthcare. John McCain doesn't actually believe in universal healthcare at all. He seems to think the current system is okay and he would rather have people go without healthcare than get the government involved.
Hillary Clinton is pro-choice. John McCain is anti-abortion and is coutning on you to believe he's lying to you about that in order to court voters who agree with the average Clinton supporter on, oh, nothing.
Hillary Clinton is not 847 years old and losing her mind. John McCain is.
So there you have it. If you support Hillary Clinton then you are for withdrawing troops from Iraq, for universal healthcare, for a woman's right to choose and eager to have a president who will not be entering senility on day one. So how can you possibly say you would vote for McCain over Obama?
We're supposedly issues-based supporters who are maybe suspicious of Obama's emotional appeal. On the issues, Obama is a better choice for a Clinton supporter than McCain is. If Clinton loses the primary, a Clinton vote for McCain is just a vote cast out of spite. If we're willing to vote with spite than any criticisms we might have uttered about Obama's appeals to emotion over reason are pretty hypocritical.
I'll never quite believe that we need to fundamentally change America. But I do believe that we have to change the way we run it in a very practical way. Only two credible candidates running for president agree with me about what those changes are. Unfortunately they're in the same party and they probably can't stand each other anymore, so there can be only one.
And it can't be the senile man from the other side.




Comments (11)
I think those Hillary supporters who refuse to back another Democrat are too caught up in the battle of personalities. I don't think they care much about the issues. Same goes for Obama supporters who would not back another Democrat.
Either we back someone for his or her celebrity, or we want to win the White House.
March 19, 2008 9:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you. I have made this point to people who have said both that they would vote for McCain if Hillary didn't win, or vote for McCain if Obama doesn't win. It just doesn't add up, for if you've chosen that person for any substantive reason at all, you would vote for the person who continues to pursue the ideals and issues that are important to you, and your candidate.
Not to mention the delicate balance of the Supreme Court hangs in the balance.
March 19, 2008 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you. I have made this point to people who have said both that they would vote for McCain if Hillary didn't win, or vote for McCain if Obama doesn't win. It just doesn't add up, for if you've chosen that person for any substantive reason at all, you would vote for the person who continues to pursue the ideals and issues that are important to you, and your candidate.
Not to mention the delicate balance of the Supreme Court hangs in the balance.
March 19, 2008 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
By the way, guess it's obvious from the avatar but it's me, Destor. Whenever I blog it seems to come up as Mike M. How do I fix that?
March 19, 2008 9:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Destor,
It is clear is you; I didn't notice the "Mike" name, what I recognize is your avatar.
Supreme Court fears aside, I find it very difficult to vote for Hillary.
But I would NEVER vote for McCain. NEVER!
March 19, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think you can change that if you edit your profile, but I'd recognize the Nature Boy anywhere.
Also, nice post. Recommended.
March 20, 2008 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you're giving a lot of Clinton supporters way too much credit for knowing their candidate. I've yet to met a Clinton supporter who knew her beyond Bill Clinton. Especially the middle aged women who feel it's time to vote for Clinton. They don't know policy and you can see it when their eyes glaze over. And you have to remember that there are people, no matter how pseudo-intellectual they type, really are not ever going to vote for a person with skin color darker than theirs. That's reality.
March 19, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am one of the Hillary supporter who will not vote for Obama in the fall. I have considered all the points that you have raised and Obama's lack of the moral compass required to put the nation's needs above his own political well-being disqualifies him for the Presidency. As much as I dislike and despise McCain's positions I do believe that McCain would put the nation's needs as he sees them above his own. Obama seeks his own political well-being above all else.
I first reached this conclusion watching Obama headline Donnie McGlurkin (and I do see a major distinction between accepting support from all and sundry and indicating that their positions are acceptable.) Obama's willingness to use Donnie as a dog whistle to homophones in South Carolina was appalling. His cynicism was the more complete because of Obama's reasonably good record on gay issues. It was topped off by Obama first blaming the arrangement on staff only to have his own direct role in it revealed. So Obama lies. And then he went to repair relations by giving a well-publicized speech. (I'm guessing but don’t recall that this speech was not in South Carolina and was after the primary -- correct me if I'm wrong.)
What dawned on me was that I would never even consider voting for a Republican who behaved in the same manner with regard to race so why should I support Obama who was behaving this way in regard to gays?
Obama then went on to seek his own political advantage by portraying a series of gaffes as a planned strategy by his opponent. Now that the strategy has caused a racial division in the party and has almost worked he is willing to denounce it. Too little too late and no apology for using it coupled with an unfounded attack on Geraldine Ferraro for a political analysis which was correct.
Oh, yeah. And the disdain for democratic principles shown in his unwillingness to work to see that the votes in Florida and Michigan are counted.
So as to your particular points:
1. I have no objection to leaving a garrison in Iraq similar to those kept in Korea and Germany. McCain is far less likely than Obama to involve us in future adventures -- say in Pakistan -- and far more likely to conduct them competently that Obama would. I thought I was letting my dislike for Obama mislead me until I discovered that the neo cons agreed with me on the likelihood of Obama exercising miliary might -- they were for it.
2. Obama would negotiate some watered-down compromise on health care trying to make it conform to the principles of right, left and center. I'd rather take a 4 year postponement with McCain and see it done right when we retake the Presidency.
3. McCain has been profoundly anti-choice throughout his career just quiet about it. He does however recognize the perniciousness of the Religious Right in ways that Obama doesn't. Obama cuddles up to them and a good portion of the Audacity of Hope amounted to apologies for hurting their feelings. Any nominee from McCain would for SCOTUS would be fought tooth and nail by what I believe will be Democratic majorities in both houses. Any nominee from Obama would be virtually unscrutinized. Given Obama's glowing words about Joe Lieberman and Obama's desire to vote for Roberts (google Rouse, Obama and Roberts)I have no confidence that he would appoint good Justices. Also Obama according to Illinois Now adopted a strategy of voting present on choice issues not at the behest of Illinois Planned Parenthood but in order to protect fellow Democratic members by allowing them to avoid taking a visible stand for choice. I have stood my share of escort duty so I know the risks being run.
3. McCain's age. This does mean that who McCain picks for vice-president does matter. That could be a deal breaker. But given that I disagree with the vast majority of his policy positions the less energy he has to pursue them the better.
The mess that Obama made of the Nuclear Leaks legislation also tempts me to support the installation of a failing Republican administration over the prospect of a bungled Democratic one.
As far as I can tell from Obama's book The Audacity of Hope he supports Democratic positions in spite of his religion not because of it and spends far more time apologizing for those positions than explaining their merits. Once stripped of the banal and often incorrect recitals of history and pomp there is really very little meat to that book. You could read that book and not know that the man claims he's a Democrat. If he is elected, he will owe his election to independents and Republicans and will cater to them.
So, I'll vote for politician whose policies I despise but whose willingness to put the well-being of the country ahead of his own political needs I admire and hope that he is a placeholder over voting for a politician who has shown he is willing to destroy the Democratic party and whose penchant for compromise could well lead to a completely bungled Presidency.
March 19, 2008 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for starting a long, stupid post with a short, stupid sentence. It encouraged me to scan the rest quickly and to get to the end without being tempted to take any of it seriously.
Obama haters and McCain lovers may be stupid, but at least you're upfront and quick to show it. I admire that.
March 22, 2008 9:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
This should be a recommended post.
Farq this place.
March 20, 2008 7:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. Recommend this post!
March 20, 2008 10:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
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