Reader Posts
« previous | TPM CAFÉ READER POSTS HOME | next »
Is Obama a Muslim?
I'm more interested in hearing why it's bad to be Muslim. Shouldn't Hillary have said that the premise of the question was anti-Muslim? Shouldn't TPM have brought this up as well? As for whether she hemmed and hawed, of course she did. The political temptation would be too much for most people. Unfortunately for the human race.
Advertisement
Comments (41)
obama has (several times throughout the year as well as in this 60 min clipop) actually defended the fact that this fear-mongering is offensive to muslims as well.
in an interview with Nicholas Krisfof of the New York Times:
"Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it’ll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”"
March 3, 2008 3:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Any questions about religion should be rejected. We have secular government the separates religion and government and questions regarding personal religions should be met with a response that shows one's offense. Do you think you have all the answers to one's afterlife? Do you think that your belief is superior to my personal belief no matter what that is? Do you have any business or material interest in what I believe in? Of course a candidate can't be as crass in their response but they can refer to founders and site examples of religious zealotry.
March 3, 2008 4:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
yes, no more heresy trials.
March 3, 2008 4:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
by the way, i posted this because i found it admirable, though as Kristof says it would scare away "the Alabama voters". My father is Muslim, my mother is Christian, and I'm Christian. So I dont run terrified of the call to prayer as a majority of Americans might.
March 3, 2008 5:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
There are scurrilous and totally unfounded attacks circulating in the Internet accusing Barack Obama of being a crypto-Muslim and an enemy of Israel. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I think that is stupid for anyone to say or to suggest that Barack Obama is not a friend of Israel, a Christian, or that he in any way supports the Palestinians. Everything he says or has said, does or has done, his every vote in the Senate, bears this out. I repeat, that this line of attack is both ignorant and stupid.
What I do find strange is that at the same time some of Obama's most enthusiastic supporters think that, in spite of his support for Israel and his conspicuous Christianity, that simply because of his color or because he is famously named "Barack Hussein" that this is going to simultaneously have some enormous "healing" or soothing effect on America's relations with the Islamic world.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
As I have had it explained to me, if your father and grandfather were Muslims and if you have a Muslim name, but profess another religion publicly and support the enemies of Islam (Israel) that makes you an apostate. Here is a quote from the Wikipedia article on the subject of apostasy.
If you look up the subject in Google you will find some 1,160,000 entries referring to the subject. Laws to this effect are on the books of several Muslim countries at this very moment.
So really, we cannot have it both ways*. It seems to me obvious that for the United States of America to elect a president named "Barack Hussein", who is a practicing Christian and a supporter of Israel would be seen by Muslims as the ultimate provocation and the fulfillment of the most paranoiac fantasies of the most extreme Salafists.
They would say that this is what America does to Muslims: not only does it kill and persecute Muslims, it takes the son and grandson of Muslims and turns him into the chief killer and persecutor of Muslims. A Muslim version of Damian.
The bottom line is that you can't have it both ways. It is one thing if somebody named "John" or "Hillary" bombs Pakistan or Iran and supplies the Israelis with weapons and quite another if someone with "Hussein" anywhere in his name does it... It's adding insult to injury.
I think that Obama's supporters should make right wing voters and people like Daniel Pipes see what a unique occasion the presidency of Barack Obama would give them to take yet another opportunity to mortally offend Islam.
http://seaton-newslinks.blogspot.com
March 3, 2008 3:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
yeah, saying that a guy with the name hussein will have cause for tectonic shifts in middle eastern perceptions of the US is overstating it greatly.
HOWEVER...
the problem with your statement is that you group all muslims together and you basically imply that a majority of muslims hold the fundamentalist views of al-qaida.
you need to separate muslims as separate individuals who have their own capacity for reason and Islam as a set of beliefs. Islam is a set of beliefs that most muslims, that i know take more as a code of ethics, and are against jihadi fundamentalism and sharia. Yes i know there are fundamentalists as there are with Christians, but not violent fundamentalists who blow sh*t up.
My father is Muslim, my mother is Christian and Im a Christian and was born in Iran and have family in Lebanon. I still go to Iran in summertime every year and have studied in Iran. So i know what I'm talking about. A majority of Iranian citizens are very westernized and hate their president, especially the students though they are not allowed to express it out of fear, and most intellectuals and scientists have already fled Iran because of this president.
And i have first hand accounts much elderly people in Iran, and even Imams as well as Christian Arab priests and ministers who think America won't ever elect Obama because of his middle name Hussein. But these same people also say that they would look at America differently if it were able to elect a man who had such a name and say it would be a positive step, much in the same way it would be a positive step for america to elect a black man or a woman as president. But these same people also say that Obama could never be elected because of his color first, regardless of name.
A lot of muslims in lebanon, jordan, pakistan, and iran do not think the way you imply at all. these are the most westernized and democratically leaning muslim nations, and will be crucial in curbing radicalism. A lot of my friends in Iran and Lebanon aren't anti-Israel as the American news media portray them to be, and neither are the students that I travled and studied with abroad who were very strict Muslims. They basically express that both palestinian and israeli safety and peace is contingent upon each other and most students in Iran know this. Yes there is some anti-semitism but they dont want their president to blow up israel. That is the basic sentiment among those I know. Though Iranian news media restricts such sentiments because the president is a borderline tyrant.
Anyway, it's offensive to surmise that you think that a majority of the people of Muslim countries that Obama would be Damian. You think that all muslims think in armageddon terms and that they can't make rational decisions or think about their religion in the context of real events and history and science... just like Christians do, or Catholics.
And if what you said was true, then one of the most populous Muslim states, Pakistan would never had elected or REVERED such a leader as their FEMALE prime ministers Benazir Bhutto. And do i even have to cite all the things the Qur'an says about a woman's place and purpose?
March 3, 2008 4:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
sorry, the "Al Qaida caucus" comment was intended for seaton.
March 3, 2008 4:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Couldn't be for Hillary - she does bad in caucuses but better in primaries.
March 3, 2008 5:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
"You think that all muslims think in armageddon terms and that they can't make rational decisions or think about their religion in the context of real events and history and science... just like Christians do, or Catholics."
My Friend -your well argued and reasonable post falls flat here because you do the exact thing you say the person you reply to does -group all christians and Catholics together.
As a practicing Catholic I can tell you that many of my friends view the edicts of the Church and the Pope the same way you say your Muslim friends view Sharia and the edicts of Ayatollahs. Reason is not confined to any religious bent and extremism can be found in any belief system (including secular ones)
Catholics (despite the protestations of the Catholic league, and detestible screeds of Catholic Answers) do indeed "make rational decisions or think about their religion in the context of real events and history and science", e.g. Catholics are not the ones debating evolution, but see it as an established scientific fact. Does that mean there are no Catholic creationists? Of course not, but most Catholics (as do I hope, most reasonable people) view science as a search to explain the "how" of God's creation rather than deriding it because it doesn't explain the "why".
I find it amusing that the whole "is Obama secretly a muslim" question ignores the idea apparently in the muslim belief that it is much worse to be a Muslim and lie about it than it is to simply be of another faith, thus rendering any potential stealth plot the paranoid feel he's concocting impossible.
I also think that any who seriously query w/r he is a muslim (and I'm neither saying nor implying that you are) do so because in their world that is the new "N-word". The idea that anyone would have to defend their faith is anathema to the principles upon which our nation was founded.
March 3, 2008 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
i AM a Christian by the way and lived in Iran for a while and studied there. most muslims in iran are AGAINST sharia just like most christians dont follow the bible literally, and stone gays and dont follow creationism. that is what i meant, and i think you misread what i wrote.
March 3, 2008 11:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Apologies then. I thought that when you posted "You think that all muslims think in armageddon terms and that they can't make rational decisions or think about their religion in the context of real events and history and science... just like Christians do, or Catholics." you meant that neither Christians nor Catholics can make rational decisions or think about their religion in context, and that the poster was trying to say Muslims can't either. Sorry if I misunderstood.
March 4, 2008 1:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
"As I have had it explained to me, if your father and grandfather were Muslims and if you have a Muslim name, but profess another religion publicly and support the enemies of Islam (Israel) that makes you an apostate. Here is a quote from the Wikipedia article on the subject of apostasy."
The bulk of that article made it seem as though most Muslims are only really concerned about apostasy when it involves a practising Muslim who turns against the faith.
Obama was never a practising Muslim. End of discussion.
The notion that people should be held accountable for their grandparents leaving the church might be prevalent among some Muslims (and we refer to them as "wingnuts" in this country - see Hagee, John) but I highly doubt that many people in any country believe in it.
As for people named Hussein being supporters of Israel, King Hussein of Jordan was generally well-liked and respected throughout his life for being a moderate towards Israel.
My guess is that if Obama wins, he'll get a bit of a break from the Muslim world both for having Muslim ancestry and for defeating W.'s party in the election. This will last about 5 days max before they start agitating again to get those fershlugginer soldiers out of Iraq.
March 3, 2008 4:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're right. We should hold an Al Qaida caucus to see what name would be okay for an American president.
March 3, 2008 4:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
actually, when the clintons were allegedly passing that somali garb photo around, the uproar in america about the photo got the attention of al-qaida. and al-qaida says they hate all american politicans regardless. lol. that should help obama? "see? im not a muslim terrorist because they hate me too"
March 3, 2008 4:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
not sure what you mean, but i think we should choose a leader based on their strategy for a whole range of issues, one of which is our entanglement in the middle east. we shouldn't elect someone based on what effect their name will have on people from other countries.
March 3, 2008 4:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
...i guess my attempt at humor fell flat. it was a joke man..
March 3, 2008 5:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
sorry dude. tired, disenfranchised, etc.
March 3, 2008 5:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Shorter Seaton: They hate us for our freedoms.
March 3, 2008 4:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hussein, a common name, it seems, means "handsome one". That doesn't seem too offensive. Donald, means, "world ruler". That might be rather offensive! Had "hussein" meant "world ruler" Obama would have had hell to pay.
March 3, 2008 4:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why doesn't the Obama campaign answer this sensibly?
"Yes, Obama's father was a Muslim, and abandoned Barack when he was 2 years old. Except for 4 years in Indonesia with his hippie/rural development/NGO/world religion mother Ann Dunham and a Moslem father Soetoro who was more interested in golf and oil than religion, Obama spent most of his youth with his Christian granparents and became a Christian.
Obama's sister who remained in Indonesia with Dunham and Soetoro is a Buddhist, giving you an idea just how worried about Moslem religion Soetoro was.
Was that that difficult? And isn't it much more convincing than arguing about whether we should say Obama's middle name or worrying about whether "as far as I know" is convincing enough?
And people say Hillary has trouble speaking clearly.
March 3, 2008 5:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
obama did confront these questions CONSTANTLY in townhall meetings early in 2007 when these questions were being thrown at him continuously in iowa.
cnn did a piece after fox news smeared obama.
obama even wrote in his book that his father was first a catholic, converted to islam, and then became an athiest and died an athiest.
Obama's stepfather Soetero was an athiest as well.
do your research
March 3, 2008 5:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
how do you take away that Obama's sister was a Buddhist because she was worried about Islam? What a stupid and ignorant thing to say. Buddhists make up a good portion of southeast asia and Indonesia.
you bigot
March 3, 2008 6:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
The point being Soetoro was probably more interested in golf than raising his daughter as a Moslem, to refute the idea Ann & Soetoro had Barack in a radical madrassa at age 6-8, sorry the point didn't come across.
March 3, 2008 10:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero, what does Obama have to answer sensibly?
March 3, 2008 6:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Answer it sensibly you mean perhaps in the form of two best-selling books?
Oh, or here's a classic straight from you keyboard: If people would just look him up on Wikipedia...
We have a secular government. There is no litmus test for religion. Period. That you even use the word sensible in your post is laughable. As your candidate of choice likes to say, I'd suggest you get real.
March 3, 2008 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd suggest you get real and ask why all the candidates have answered questions about what role their faith plays in their lives, with the Republicans going this a few steps further.
Yes, there's a religious litmus test or a "smell" test if you prefer.
March 4, 2008 1:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
The scandalous truth is that Obama is a fundie Christian.
Don't tell anybody.
Best, Terry
March 3, 2008 6:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
yeah.. that's exactly why he's for funding scientific research on stem cells and believes in evolution
March 3, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
America, unlike any other, is a country where people are allowed to reinvent themselves as many times as they want, where names are changed constantly, where the Israel Isidore Baline's become Irving Berlins, marry Irish Catholics and write "White Christmas"... or where people mutilate their features and bleach their skin, like Michael Jackson... Or move to Spain and write in Spanish newspapers (my case). We are like that, that is OUR culture.
However, it is fair to note that at this moment we are in conflict with Salafite-extremist (wingnut if you will) Islam and even quite normally devout Muslims, where "reinventing" yourself religion-wise is about the worst sin committable. To have a Christian named Hussein doing the bombing in Iraq and Afghanistan and selling the bombs used in Gaza for killing Muslims to the Israelis just might be misunderstood.
Americans are a free and sovereign people and can vote for whomsoever the two major parties decide they can vote for... But I think they should look at all the angles first.
March 3, 2008 6:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
As unenamored as I am of Hillary and as imperfect as her response was, her answer just did not strike me as hedging.
Infact, saying "As far as I know" adds much weight to her skeptical answer because no one doubts that she would definitely have thoroughly looked into the issue.
March 3, 2008 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
You can't prove Barack isn't a Muslim. If inaugurated, he'll head straight for the White House bunker and nuke every American city. Then after the fallout clears, the Muslims will swarm in and take over the USA.
Obama has been planning this for twenty years. You can't prove he hasn't been planning it.
;o)
March 3, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTW guys I found some brilliant/awesome analysis on Obama’s Fundraising on the campaign. I haven’t seen anything like this mentioned anywhere in the MSM.
Check out the article “Follow the Money” on http://savagepolitics.com/?p=165 and "Barack Obama's Apostasy" http://savagepolitics.com/?p=101
March 3, 2008 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey elsylee, I guess you're a Hillary supporter? I saw that you tacked the above post onto every Obama themed diary you could find. It's got nothing to do with the conversation we're having.
March 3, 2008 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Media and Obama's celebrity worshiping followers will never reveal the true facts about Obama's ties to a racist church or the fact he is being treated with "kid gloves". BTW, he now doesn't want his middle name Hussein to be used when referring to him. It's his name, isn't it? Be proud of your name!
God forbid that anyone challeges Obama, in fear they will be incorrectly called a racist. Obama and most black folks use the race card when they cannot use their qualifications or experience to support their position.
Obama and his hollow followers will bring down the standard of living for ALL americans with their sense of entitlement and prejudice.
March 3, 2008 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
he's never said NOR sent out surrogates claiming the use of his middle name was derogatory, but that it played on xenophobic fears. it's the people in the media who are playing this out, so dont blame the campaign.
AND YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT RACE CARD?
- billy shaheen drugs cocaine let spin loose in the news cycle for 3 entire days before they decided to apologize and a lot more time before they decided to fire him
- "hip black friend" by a prominent clinton surrogate
- surrogates at the beginning of 2007 calling him "kid" repeatedly... reminds you of the denigrating "boy"
- andrew young implying obama wasn't black enough and that bill clinton probably slept with more black women than he did (what would hillary and chelsea think of such a comment?)
- bob kerrey mouthing the words that obama went to a "madrassa" which was absolutely false
- eddie rendell, mark penn, wolfson
and i wont put all the blame on hillary either because i dont think that MLK/LBJ/fairytale comment was racist at all but i can understand why people would think so because there was a pattern established long before then of racial comments.
but it's the media who has been playing the race card the most.
basically, none of what i just said would probably even move your opinion one bit. so just forget everything i said because you're just a mindless bigot
March 4, 2008 12:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
The question is not wether Barak Hussein obama is a muslin or not, the question should be why is he trying so hard to hide the facts.This man is a danger to America, he is not proud to be american nor is his wife. My friends your vote can actually but our country in the hands of an anti American radical and his people will use fear and accuse you of racism if you don't support him(Barak Hussein Obama).!!!
March 4, 2008 3:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
seriously?
March 4, 2008 3:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
i can't think of anything more anti-american than what you've just written.
March 4, 2008 3:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is nothing in my comment that arrows against this graet land, but your response was expected.
March 4, 2008 3:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey eye ball perhaps you should put on pair of glasses and take a good look at tis man (Barak Hussein Obama ) before you continue with the pollution!
March 4, 2008 3:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
right.
March 4, 2008 3:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Post a Comment