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I am an Obama supporter who will not vote for Hillary Clinton in November
Are you a current Obama supporter who (for any reason) will not vote for Hillary Clinton in the general election if she gets the Democratic nomination for President?
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Comments (143)
I suggest you read this post by GMan08.
I have stopped saying I won't vote for Hillary. The stakes are simply much higher than the presidency - they're also the Supreme Court, hundreds of federal judges, and most of Congress. All of those things are influenced by the sitting President... and is a good reason to keep a Democrat there.
March 7, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is all about SCOTUS; unforunately, HRC's nominations would be worse that McCain's. When BC had the chance to appoint progressive justices, he appointed right of center appointees. Interestingly, it was GHWB who appointed a progressive to SCOTUS.
March 8, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. If Obama is nominated, even though he's not my guy I not only plan to vote for him but I want to avoid seeming like I'm "holding my nose" while doing so. I don't like him, but victory over McCain is important. We need at least 8 years in the White House to even begin to reverse the rightward movement in the courts.
March 8, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I will not vote for her, no matter what.
Why? Why should I show loyalty to her if she refuses to show loyalty to the Democratic Party? If she could stop kissing McCain's ass, I would reconsider.
March 7, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think those that say so and do so lack emotional maturity.
These are the same people that cut in front of you in line, insist on special treatment on airplanes, are nightmares to drive near, and would go on the dole before they'd do honest work like flipping burgers or stocking shelves.
They feel they're better then the rest of us and demand our admiration for their " so-called principles" while they look down their noses at us.
Sorry, I find nothing admirable about these losers, at all.
March 7, 2008 9:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
You talk about emotional maturity in one sentence, and immediately following that you say, "These are the same people that cut in front of you in line, insist on special treatment on airplanes, are nightmares to drive near, and would go on the dole before they'd do honest work like flipping burgers or stocking shelves."
Your ugly, angry comments undo your own credibility. You assume you hold moral high ground and then make inflammatory ad hominem attacks.
March 8, 2008 1:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
The truth hurts.
It needed to be said.
March 8, 2008 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
And you said it very well. Some people are obviously hypersensitive and they freak out at the slightest hint of namecalling.
March 8, 2008 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. You ain't kidding. It's totally ridiculous.
March 8, 2008 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would that be the truth that you "...make inflammatory ad hominem attacks."?
March 8, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm playing defence old timer.
I'm defending my nation from a bunch of dumbasses that can't tell the difference between a presidential campaign and a vote for homecoming king OR queen.
What are you doing?
March 8, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
How convenient of you to generalize to a population of people. In one day today, I removed a colon cancer, spent one hour with a family of a loved one who was dying from pneumonia postoperatively, and put in a chest tube in a patient to relieve an accumulation of air in his chest cavity. All in the span of being on call for 30 hours straight no sleep.
I'd like for you to call me emotionally immature again and a loser.. again, but rather than do it behind the anonymity of a keyboard, do it to my face, in front of the families and patients I take care of. I doubt you would.
And yes I have principles. What's wrong with that? So I feel strongly about my vote - which coming from a family of immigrants from a communist country - which means something to me and my family. I don't use it or treat it lightly.
March 8, 2008 3:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll do it - where do you practice?
March 8, 2008 9:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't need to talk to you.. you've already proved yourself to be completely ridiculous in your Clinton fanboyism.
March 8, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I very much doubt you would.
It's far too easy for people to hide behind their keyboards and posture.
Or are you one of those truly deranged who actually does accost and belabor people to make your points, however useless they may be?
(Part of me wants you to, if for no other reason than you'll likely get yourself arrested...)
March 8, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, why don't you give me your email.. I'll call you and maybe we can have this discussion live.
March 8, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Methinks you've been on-call too long and need a nap dude. Relax.
March 8, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
BevD, showing her true colors. Would you believe her if she said that she doesn't support either candidate? Yeah, me neither.
March 8, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's see... reactionary poster goes to the old "You wouldn't say that to my face" line, which is one of the more idiotic things to say on a message board and Bev calls him on it... Those true colors ain't so bad!
March 8, 2008 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, c'mon. Challenging someone to say it "to their face" on an internet message board is silly. What's the use in it? Are they really gonna meet up somewhere and punch each other in the face? People need to chill.
March 8, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
A doctor huh? And how much did you charge these people in their misery? Yeah, I'll say it to your face. I worked 36 straight hours a week ago, so what?
I'd bet the amount you charged would call into question your idea of "compassion."
I'm not a fan of "doctors," or the way the AMA keeps the numbers low so as to push up the fees.
Sorry.
Even if I didn't have such a low opinion of doctors, I'd still tell you to your face you are a self-centered, whining moron if you think Hillary Clinton is running a dirty campaign, or Obama is somehow any better than she is. Maybe you just need to get more sleep.
Maybe you are used to people fawning over you, but I'm afraid there's a lot of us out there that see the outrageous cost of Medicine, and the fact that American doctors are compensated far and away more than other doctors--just as skilled--throughout the rest of the world, and think maybe you guys need to stop thinking so much of yourselves.
March 8, 2008 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you even understand where I work? I work at a County Hospital in an underserved inner city. People who come to my hospital have no way of paying - we give it to them essentially free. Maybe you should stop assuming what I do and who I am before you comment. We're also the central trauma center for this region so we help any and all patients regardless of what happens to them, no matter where they come from, no matter what their class is. I've helped people from the rich areas of this neighborhood to some of the worst. So before you start sounding like an ass for assuming what I do, it'd be nice if you actually asked.
I'm not denying there's an undercurrent of distate for the state of health care - I think it needs to be changed as well. I think that doctors have approached this issue far too leniently. But for you to assume what I do and practice is silly and shows the type of person you are.
And in regards to the number of doctors.. thats a silly statement. Its well known that we're struggling to train enough qualified doctors. Our field requires multiple steps to practice, and we struggle to fill training residencies with outgoing medical students because there aren't enough. In surgery, there's a certain number of operations you need to do to become proficient.. so you can't all of a sudden increase that number. Where it gets problematic is in the field of Internal Medicine, Family Medicine, Pediatrics, etc.
Finally, compensation is not what you think it is. We get paid well when we finish training. But do you know we train for 11 years after college? For the first four years most of us take out loans - the average debt is anywhere between 100k to 200k. We can't pay it off right away, so the debt becomes much higher by the time training is finished - because during residency training you're paid minimum wage when the hours worked is factored in.
March 8, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's not here to talk about this stuff. He's a concern troll. Best not to feed him or you'll never get rid of the mangy bastard.
March 8, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, you don't have a collection agency working on your behalf, eh?
I'd bet your hospital does. And sure they provide services and if you have ANY assets, they'll be happy to take them all.
Your whining showed me what kind of person you are. The fact that you claim how "noble" you are is another. You aren't any better than me, doctor, or anyone that you treat.
BTW, my mother was an RN. Now there's a profession that deserves respect.
Sorry to burst your bubble... That dog don't hunt. I DO understand why YOU would vote against Hillary. UHC probably scares the crap out of you. As for the AMA, if Medical schools and their huge endowments would charge reasonably there's be a lot more candidates. That's by design and everyone knows it. Otherwise why is it you make more than a doctor in England or France? You're not seriously saying you're better than they are, too? Oh, of course you are. That's what you've been saying from your first post. You're better.
A legend in your own mind.
March 8, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
HAHAHAHA, OH WOW
March 8, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
neoprufrok,
Thanks, Doc.
I was recently taken to St. Vincent's, where most of the 9/11 victims were treated. Not all that serious but I was messing up the city bleeding from a fall.
I was amazed that I was asked for no insurance care or even identification, later had to hunt down the accounts office. Had to struggle with my fine HMO when Medicare refused payment. The place was filled all sorts of tragedies and cops gathering evidence.
I got an entirely different picture of things from past experiences. Took a knock on the head for this old geezer to learn. Some here will never learn.
Hillaryhealthcare is not universal, is no solution. It stinks - bad. Obama's is not much better but at least he realizes it.
Best, Terry
March 8, 2008 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
These are the same people that cut in front of you in line, insist on special treatment on airplanes, are nightmares to drive near, ...
That's funny, because I think that description fits Hillary supporters very well. They think it's perfectly fine to have Hillary equivocating about whether Obama is a Muslim, perfectly fine to have her endorsing McCain, perfectly fine to have her doing all sorts of sleazy things, and then they think they can just expect everyone they've stepped on and pissed off to fall in line and vote for Hillary anyway.
They're wrong.
March 7, 2008 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
My thoughts exactly. The entitlement is coming from Obama? It's called winning.
March 8, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am a Democrat, no matter what nastiness her supporters throw at me saying that I am not, I will under no circumstance vote for neo-Conservative Hillary Clinton. Those who are bamboozled into believing it's better to vote for her than non-Democrat need to examine how she's thrown Obama under the bus and endorsed McCain. Look at her corrupt financing and HER record. A vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote AGAINST the Democratic party and it's platform principles. People like workerbee can call you loser, immature, and over-principled clearly put rhetoric above ethics. This is America, you can still vote your conscious. I will, and have never cut a line, asked for privilege, or snarked at a hard days work. I suspect the "emotional maturity" he references is how he swallows the pill of supporting a candidate who clearly puts corporate interests and personal power lust above party and country.
March 7, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Compared to whom?
Bush and Cheney? Oh. Sure. If one is DELUSIONAL perhaps.
You're putting your "feeeelings" above the good of the Country.
Why would I be nice to jerks like that?
March 7, 2008 10:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who are you to judge how someone should vote? Whether they do it with their intelligence or their feelings, what does that matter? If you can handle the truth that there a plenty of people who dislike Clinton, then vote for her and stop trying to imply that every Obama fan is a lazy ass jerk.
March 8, 2008 3:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Obama fan." How telling.
It's an election, not American Idol.
March 8, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
That doesn't make any sense.
March 8, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sure it does. It is telling in that you people aren't looking at Obama and Clinton as nominees for public office. You're treating it like a popularity contest. It isn't.
March 8, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm treating it like a popularity contest? You have no idea what I base my judgements on. I'm just fuckin' with you and other Clinton supporters. Trolling the trolls, as it were.
March 8, 2008 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I explained because you said you didn't get it. You still don't apparently.
You're a bit of a lightweight. If you read for comprehension you'd see the only thing I'm backing is responsible voting. Nothing more. I didn't vote for either of these DLC dems.
You Obama fans are treating this like a popularity contest, complete with Middle School level cliques, and condescending snark. Some Hillary supporters are just as bad.
No doubt, come Novemeber, you'll have moved on to the latest craze. maybe American idol.
I don't particularly care.
March 8, 2008 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, I see, now you don't care. And I can see your a super heavyweight with the great sweeping changes in attitude you've helped with. You don't have to lie on the internet man. If you like Clinton, just say so. Had you gone after a single Clinton supporter who has said the same as the Obama supporters here you might be taken seriously. You haven't, therefore I think most people realize your arguments carry very little weight.
March 8, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hello? You say you "don't have to lie on the internet" but you do so as a matter of course, apparently. Silly as your assertions are obviously untrue.
Sure I have been saying the SAME thing to Hillary supporters, many times.
Including right under THIS post.
You are a rather thick lightweight.
March 8, 2008 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I won't vote for Obama because he's all platitudes and attitudes.
Truth to tell I may well write in a candidate but Obama will not get my vote.
March 8, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you're for McCain?
I see.
Hillary will vote for Obama, Obama will vote for Hillary, and you don't make your candidate look any better then the Obama whiners makee their candidate look.
i happen to think BOTH candidates are a bit short on sincerity, a bit long on ego, and a bit too far to the right.
They are, however, BOTH light years preferable to McCain.
March 8, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
workerbee,
Would you allow others to have a different opinion? Is that a part of your idea of Democracy?
And... are you going to insult me because I don't think like you?
March 8, 2008 8:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm expressing mine. Is that a problem for you? Or re cheap shots all you have?
March 9, 2008 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have been saying for some time that I won't vote for Hillary if she becomes the Prez candidate. I've been working really hard to avoid having to do that! I had an extremely difficult time casting a vote for Kerry. I expect to have an impossible time trying to cast a vote for Hillary.
I am 90% convinced that I will not be able to cast that vote. If that happens, I'll simply not vote in that one race and vote Dem on everything else (I do reserve judgment in case there's a crook running--I encountered that once).
In recent days, I've been thinking "maybe" I could vote for Hillary. But that 2002 vote for the Iraq War is a very serious error in my book. Hillary was there for the Vietnam mess and then she votes for another one? So did Kerry. It's simply mind-boggling how stupid that vote was.
And I'm not even a pacifist; I whole-heartedly approved of entering Afghanistan and was quite ticked off that more resources weren't devoted to it and were siphoned out for Iraq.
March 7, 2008 10:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm voting for Nader if she is on the ticket at all. I'm not a dem though, I'm an independent. I also think the two party system, the primary system and the electoral college are shams.
March 7, 2008 10:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Any hope of having a moderate Supreme Court in out lifetimes will die if a Democrat isn't elected president in 2008.
March 7, 2008 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well then maybe Democrats should rethink voting for Clinton then. Its the same argument that the other way around. Both parties understand what's at stake. She doesn't. Clinton just wants to win and be the President - she could care less about what happens to the Party. By her judgement, McCain would choose better justices than Obama apparently.
March 8, 2008 3:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
I live in Texas, so my vote doesn't count.
Must be nice for a vote to mean something.
March 7, 2008 11:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.petitiononline.com/obama725/petition.html
March 8, 2008 1:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I will not vote for Hillary under any circumstances.
She should have stayed in the race & conducted a campaign on the issues. Instead she has resorted to lies & smears. This wouldn't be so bad if it was January. But it's March!
It's clear that Barack will be the nominee of the party. She has no chance. Yet, she decides to conduct a smear campaign against the party's nominee.
Hillary Clinton should be ridden out of the Democratic Party.
March 8, 2008 1:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
To those who insist that Obama supporters should (and ultimately will) suck it up and vote for Hillary if necessary in the Fall, let me point out the error in your reasoning:
I support Obama, but I am not a Democrat (or a Republican). When it comes to the President, I'm not an issues voter -- I vote character. A few weeks ago, I would have been willing to vote for Hillary over McCain if Obama didn't win it. But the last few weeks have changed my mind. McCain is at least honorable, and Hillary has proven herself (in my eyes) not to be. If I can't vote for Obama, I will vote for McCain.
I do not think I am alone.
March 8, 2008 1:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Clintons must be viewed in the context of the DLC, for which they are the standard bearers. As such, they are mortified by the possibility of the progressive wing of the party rising to power, as it would render them irrelevant. Philosophically, the DLC is extremely close to the corporate Republicans, as they represent the interests of the same corporate entities. Thus it is not all that surprising that Hillary should feel a closer kinship with John McCain than she does with fellow Democrat, Barack Obama.
Obama's candidacy offers the possibility of rising above the corporatocracy that has governed this nation for the past 28 years. Thus, if he is denied the nomination by Clintonite backroom dealing and dirty tricks, I would be very reluctant to vote into power a woman who is determined to keep the Democratic Party on the dark side. I would not go so far as to vote for McCain, but I would welcome a final cleansing of the old guard from positions of power within the party. This would include two-faced congressional leaders as well, such as Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.
March 8, 2008 2:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Workerbee are you on the HRC payroll? Your argument will not atone for the renegade Clinton Campaign.
March 8, 2008 2:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I live in Georgia. I had hoped Howard Dean's 50 state strategy and Obama as the nominee would keep my state in play. Hillary and Co. seem ready to write us off. We're not as important as states like Ohio (which has blown the last two big elections by my count), so if she wrestles away (or steals) this election, why bother voting at all? I'll be sitting on the sidelines watching the democrats blow it again.
March 8, 2008 3:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do not question my emotional maturity. My judgement and moral compass is impecable. Hillary Clinton is destroying the Democratic Party with her evil, backhanded, machivelian ways. Do not blame my inability to vote for that monster for the future destruction of the moderate Supreme Court. Place that blame right in the lap of "win at all cost and burn everything in my path" Clintons. Right now casting a ballot for Hillary Clinton would be equal to me casting a ballot for Karl Rove. Ain't Gonna Happen. Maybe two weeks ago. But Not yesterday. Not today. Not tomorrow. Not in November. Not EVER. And this is from a life-long Democratic voter who has never cast a ballot for a Republican. I WILL NEVER CAST A VOTE FOR THAT WOMAN. If she thinks John McCain is so qualified to be President, then I will happily support that position if she is the Democratic nominee.
March 8, 2008 6:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
You might want to get a tissue. You're foaming at the mouth, and it ain't pretty.
March 8, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Guys, vote Democratic no matter who gets the nomination. No matter how imperfect the Democrats are there is no doubt they are less rotten than the powers that be in the Republican Party - just look at what this Republican group has done to our country, our constitution, and our world since January 2001.
March 8, 2008 8:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Some of you people are the most selfish, inconsiderate assholes ever to walk the earth - the election is all about YOU, isn't it?
All of the things they're saying about Clinton now, they said about Al Gore in 2000. EXACTLY the same phrases and words in some cases. The press went after Gore EXACTLY the same way that they're now going after Clinton. The opposition went after Gore in EXACTLY the same way the opposition is going after Clinton now. And of course, thanks to all the assholes who said the same thing you're saying now, "that they could never vote for Gore" because he's like Bush" or "it doesn't make a difference who's in the White House" were wrong, weren't they? It makes a hell of a difference who is in the White House, doesn't it?
What do you think this is, a prom king election, where if your best friend doesn't win, you'll never speak to the other kids as long as you live? "Evil, backhanded, machivellian ways"? Like what? Name something she did that Obama hasn't done. I've looked at both their literature, both their commercials, both their rhetorical speeches and it is the same crap coming from both of them. That's what political rhetoric is - 99% bullshit and 1% crap.
Now if YOUR candidate doesn't win, you're going to vote for McCain and the hell with everyone else, huh? Well, we'll know who to thank, won't we? The kids of Obama High.
March 8, 2008 8:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dear BevD,
I'll have to say that: Yes! My vote is all about me.
I am free to vote however I want; even if you think that I am selfish (or any of those other expletives that you use.)
Stop the bullying!
March 8, 2008 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course it's all about you, that's what I said. The hell with union workers, or a health care plan, or raising taxes to pay for a debt that our grandchildren will be paying for, or rolling back the labor dept's egregious new rules for employee pay, or the environmental regulations gutted, or reproductive rights still not attainable for most women, or torture as a U.S. policy, or getting us out of Iraq - no, for you it's all about taking your dumptruck out of sandbox and running home.
March 8, 2008 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Waaaah, stop bullying Bev!
Why are so many Obama supporters such wimps?
March 8, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
destor23
We wimps are afraid of strong women who want war, a unitary executive, oddles of money from corporations and foreign dictators while running the country into the ground for the sake of the - ummm - middle class.
George Bush has already done that for us.
Best, Terry
March 8, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Name something she did that Obama hasn't done.
Endorsing the Republican candidate over a competing fellow Democratic candidate would seem to be a good start.
Can you explain in one, or at the most, two, simple declarative sentences exactly why she did this?
March 8, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
She didn't.
There.
March 8, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then define for me concisely why she claimed McCain is qualified to be Commander in Chief and Obama isn't.
You see, there's this thing called videotape, and it's been around since the 1960s, thanks to the good folks at what then was Ampex, and her comment to that effect has been seen on multiple broadcast outlets for a while now.
Or does it not yet exist in your alternate universe?
March 8, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I listened to it. It wasn't a good thing she did, but to say she endorsed McCain borders on insanity.
Get a grip.
March 8, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. As a proud student of Obama High, I can tell you that Clinton High sucks and we will totally crush them at the big game.
There will be wedgies.
March 8, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
:D
March 8, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Folks, in the name of Molly Ivins, let’s recover our sense of humor and take a deep breath here.
The first election that broke my heart was in 1972 and I haven’t gotten over it since.
I will give you five reasons to suck it up and vote for the Democrat in November, no matter what:
John Paul Stevens, age 88
Ruth Bader Ginsburg, age 75
Antonin Scalia, age 72
Anthony Kennedy, age 72
Stephen Breyer, age 70
source
Still not convinced? The Supremes are still in session right now, and they’ll be handing down their rulings for this term in the coming months. They just recently heard arguments in the Exxon Valdez case, for the love of Pete. Pay attention to those rulings as they are announced, and consider three more reasons for voting for the Democrat in November, no matter what:
Clarence Thomas, age 60
Samuel Alito, age 57
John Roberts, age 53
Howard Dean let the genie out of the bottle four years ago. Barack Obama has expanded on and built on that foundation. The ranks of the people who began feeling empowered four years ago have swelled, and that genie will not be put back by the Clintons, or the DNC.
That is the difference between now and 1972, and it is a big difference.
March 8, 2008 8:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
if dems want the white house and a different sup ct then they better select obama. i walk if it is clinton. nuf said.
March 8, 2008 8:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a cheap attempt at blackmail.
March 8, 2008 9:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Stop whining, I thought we were playing hardball here. I'm sure you're tough enough to take on 8 percent of Obama supporters who don't like Clinton.
March 8, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
worker bee and bevd
I'm taking a deep breath. The reason many Obama supporters are having this "problem" is because Hillary Clinton is running a Karl Rove type campaign. You don't agree. Well, we think you're wrong. Her tactics have just been shameless (and shameful). If she is the nominee (and I can't see how she will be) then how can I bring myself to bring myself to vote for someone I have absolutely no respect for. Her actions in the last two months or so have been an embarrassment to our party, an embarrassment to women and an embarrassment to our country.
She will do anything, no matter how underhanded and duplicitous, to win. She doesn't care about the future of the party, only about her own future. It's disgraceful and I for one want nothing to do with her. "Monster" is too polite a word for her. You should be ashamed to support such a nasty, nasty candidate.
Nice people come last they say. Well, I think that old saw is about to be proved wrong.
"These are the same people that cut in front of you in line, insist on special treatment on airplanes, are nightmares to drive near, and would go on the dole before they'd do honest work like flipping burgers or stocking shelves." No, that's the behavior of Clinton and her campaign. We're the hopeful, thoughtful, unselfish people who are concerned about others, not people who think that "whatever it takes to win" has any place in politics. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Disgraceful, just disgraceful...
March 8, 2008 9:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you're so concerned for "others" then think about those others living under president McCain.
Sorry, this sob story stuff doesn't move me. The same old self-centered shallow argumnts I heard from Nader voters in 2000.
If you want to help elect McCain by staying home and sulking if Obam doesn't get the nod, fine.
Don't expect any one to admire you for it.
March 8, 2008 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can you explain - in one or at the most two simple declarative sentences - why Clinton is championing McCain over Obama in her comments?
(crickets...)
March 8, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about one...Clinton praised McCain and said he and herself were ready to be CIC while questioning whether a fellow Democrat, most likely to be the nominee in the Fall, can demonstrate the ability to be CiC.
That may not be an endorsement to you, but it is to me.
March 8, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's nuts. Maybe you can get some lithium from the good doctor up thread.
You're hysterical.
March 8, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Trying to put it nicely, your reading comprehension skills could use a little work.
First, from reading your other posts (at least in this thread) we are, or at least appear to be, on the same side.
Second, I was challenging Drone (a more apt term, if you ask me) to offer some reason for her endorsement, not simply requesting that someone recount the already established fact.
I know she has, I just want Drone (or BevDeranged) to offer a concise explanation as to why.
March 8, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did. already.The first time you asked.
She didn't endorse McCain. The insanity in saying she did is apparent without any further elaboration.
Nor is Obama an empty suit. That's insane, as well.
I'm a drone? Well, O.K. I've been called worse. One thing people can't call me is uninvolved or prone to flights of fancy for either of these Dems who are both centrist DLC candidates. It's absolutely ridiculous to say you won't vote for one if the other wins. The space between them on policy is too small to matter, which leads me to believe it's alllll about the individuals and their selfish feeeeeeeeelings, rather than any real difference. in policy Maybe policy is boring and not quite so exciting, but it is what actually matters.
So I'm treating you like the naughty children you're acting like.
That bothers you a lot because it happens to be true.
Too bad.
I'll continue ridiculing the utter hubris and empty self importance of any of you who put yourselves above the good of our country.
The last 8 years have taught me that there's no room for this kind of self-serving onanism. The stakes are too high.
March 8, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seems I posted to the wrong comment, oh well, I was responding to someone somewhere who challenged this...it got Drone worked up, though, so it must've been a worthwhile comment :) And yes, I agree with you, we're on the same side.
March 8, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Republican, or "dark" side.
Yes, obviously.
As I was saying.
March 8, 2008 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I'm obviously an eeeviiil Republican because I think you're a putz. That makes sense.
March 8, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you can't prevent the Republican from winning after 8 years of Bush&Co., then sure, you're working for the Republicans, just like Nader did.
He got money for it at least.
I doubt you'll get any.
March 8, 2008 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is your mistake. I agree with your argument, but your tactics are repulsive. I will vote for any candidate the Dems put forward. I really don't hate Clinton at all. I think she's a very talented politician. I think Biden, Edwards and then Obama are better, though. You just came in here attacking everybody, so I jumped in for no other reason than to get you hot under the collar.
March 9, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your tactics are equally repulsive, if not moreso. I came here with something to say, you came in here as a troll and nothing more.
I only came in here attacking the jerks that will let McCain win. You misinterpreted me and insulted me, and now, rather than owning up to your bone-headed errors and your premature rush to judgment, you're engaging in a rather weak ad hominem attack, as your behavior isn't exactly stellar..
Ridiculous.
March 9, 2008 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am a Hillary Clinton supporter who will not vote for Obama in November. Lots of us around in the states that DEMS must have (remember the electoral college is not the popular vote). Ms. Susan Rice (Obama Aide) said. “They’re both not ready to have that 3 a.m. phone call.” So Obama is not ready for a crisis as president, so says his own adviser. I agree.
March 8, 2008 9:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I would like to offer my belated congratulations, for her primary voting 'victories' in Texas & Ohio, to Hillary Clinton & her campaign co-chairs Rush Limbaugh & Steven Harper.
If I were a war-mongering rethugnican, I would be ecstatic that the Canadian government is playing a role in the American political process to work to assure the election of a repugnican.
If I were a war-mongering rethugnican, I would be ecstatic that Rush Limbaugh has thrown primary votes in Ohio & Texas to the candidate that will unite the repugnicans & disunite the dimocraps.
Above all, I wish to extend my congratulations to the DLC & Howard Dean for continuing the dumbocrat tradition of 'snatching defeat from the jaws of victory'.
If Howard Dean & the other 'so-called' leaders of the dumbocrat party will not stop the crap coming from the Canadian branch of the repugnican party and will not stop the throwing of elections to Hillary by Rush Limbaugh, then again the American people will get what they deserve.
Knowing that Billary cannot legitimately win the nomination, I can only believe that the Clintonista objective is to assure the defeat of Obama by McCrap - so that Billary can run again in 2012!
March 8, 2008 9:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
a lifetime of being along for the ride does not make you an experienced driver. who does hrc think she is foolin? kinda george w - its true because i say so. what crap.
March 8, 2008 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am less than thrilled with the campaign that Hillary Clinton has waged, but not much more thrilled with the campaign that Barack Obama has waged. Having said that, I will not only vote for whoeever wins this mud wrestling match, but work my butt off for him or her.
The reason is really simple. No matter how much Hillary is a monster and Barack a speech, I cannot imagine either one locked into the Marxism of the Master Class (to paraphrase Richard Hofstadter). I can also not imagine either appointing not one but multiple Scalias to the Federal Judiciary.
We should know by now that, unless driven by pathological ideologies, like those seen in "creedal conservatives", ALL politics is the politics of renege.
EVery president but the worst has backtracked, triangulated, and torn up commitments to their most ardent supporters. Sometimes, as in the case of Bush I, they had the moral balls to risk their re-elections by putting reality above ideology (even their own).
Clinton and Obama will, of necessity, do the same. I will not be as disappointed as most of those who passionately support them because I expect them to.
But John McCain's commitments to the Hard Right run too deep for him to ever be able to renege enough on them. He also BELIEVES in too much of what they believe in to renege on those commitments if he could.
If Obama is just an empty speech with nothing behind it, and Clinton is a scheming monster, I will take either one of them any day over the alternative. We need to start reversing a half century of increasing right-wing control over the media, the electoral process, and the courts. A McCain victory could cement that control for the NEXT half-century and send the United States into permanent decline.
I remember what Churchill said about the alliance with Stalin being necessary to stop Hitler. McCain isn't Hitler, and the Right aren't (for the most part) Nazis. But if Satan existed, I would consider voting for him rather than let them win.
March 8, 2008 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am an Clinton supporter who will not vote for Obama in November. There are many people like me.
March 8, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
We know. Good riddance.
March 8, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink