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Don't Forget Your Keys: Walking while Female
Ran across this ad gauging demographic reactions to Rev. Wright's speech:
Wright Demographic Reactions
But watching it I was reminded of the comments of so many at TPM - that "what Rev. Wright said was true". Well, kinda. Sure, Hillary probably never had a taxi pass her by or got called a n****r. And Obama probably never had to clutch his car keys in his hand as it got dark knowing he was "walking while female" - i.e. rape bait. He probably never had to tell a cop what he was wearing after he narrowly slipped away from someone who attacked him. He probably never left a meeting with the guys back in the room smiling and going, "nice tits - what'd she say?" (Or had a Washington Post article written about his "cleavage" or been called a "Vaginal American" on MSNBC). He has probably never been called a c*nt or a bitch either, though I don't know how we gauge whether n*****r or c*nt is worse. But I'm sure he's never been told he's angry or irrational because he can't control his chemistry, because it's "that time of month" (even if post-menstrual - men are often clueless about the specifics of female mechanics).
Dick Gregory went on and on in Louisiana recently about how even successful blacks have to clutch the steering wheel when getting pulled over, not knowing how the cop will treat them. Well, a woman has to clutch the steering wheel hoping the cop pulling her over won't rape her, that the flat tire she has won't lead to an assault by someone pretending to help.
And where Rev. Wright is definitely wrong is that yes, women also have to work twice as hard as men to succeed. If not harder. Blacks may be questioned as affirmative action cases. Women are questioned as to who they slept with. Blacks once they get the job go to lunch and drinks with the guys, are tied into the decision process. Women are in the "will she go out with me?" line. Unless they're married with kids, and then they get to deal with the kids and don't have time for after hours drinks. Because of course sharing home duties for a working couple with kids is at best 70%-30%, and quite often 95%-5%. Obama's a Senator working 4-5 days in Washington; Michelle's a VP who lives in Chicago - is there more than a 1 in 10000 possibility that the man would take care of the kids in such a relationship?
And after all the scheduling, arranging, organizing, team building, financial management involved in being a mother - coming up with ways to keep the kids from fighting and play nice together, new games to keep them from being bored, snacks and dinners and after-school schedules, diagnosing headaches and foul moods, getting night shifts when kids are sick - is there any way in hell a woman could put "mother 14 hours a day 7 days a week" down on a resume as having something to do with management and organizational experience, and not get laughed out of an interview?
And just where the hell are the women preachers anyway?
Here's a line about the woman who sparked a revolution in the 1950's: "In December 1943, Rosa Parks became active in the Civil Rights Movement, joined the Montgomery chapter of the NAACP, and was elected volunteer secretary to its president, Edgar Nixon.
Of her position, she later said, "I was the only woman there, and they
needed a secretary, and I was too timid to say no." She continued as
secretary until 1957." That's right, we got a woman here, let's make her a secretary. The woman who discovered fission in Germany in the 1930's, Lise Meitner, had to work for free - women weren't allowed in the lab - and her male counterpart got all the credit including the Nobel.
Here's Sojourner Truth speaking at a Women's Rights Convention 150 years ago. Ain't I a Woman?
How much has really changed for women black or white since?
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Comments (126)
Ran across this today by accident while looking up something on the Bosnia trip. Lissa Muscatine had applied for a speech writer's job in the Clinton White House and then discovered she was pregnant. And then that she had twins. She assumed she was out of a job. Hillary apparently fought to hire her with the comment "If this is the best person, this is who we're going to hire, and I don't care if she has one kid or two kids or 10 kids.... If we can't make it work here, how can we possibly make it work for women in other places of employment?'" Maybe it's a fairy tale, you tell me.
Lissa Muscatine
March 25, 2008 4:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Senator Barack Obama today released the following statement on Women's History Month:
Women's History Month isn't just a chance to celebrate women's history; it's a chance to honor the extraordinary role women have played in shaping American history. From midnight journeys on the Underground Railroad to marches for women's suffrage and civil rights, from the bomber assembly lines of World War II to the boardrooms of today, women have always shown us what we can achieve when we refuse to settle for the world as it is and choose to remake the world as it should be.
But despite the achievements we honor this month, we know we still have challenges to overcome. We need to build an America where women earn the same pay as men for the same work, and have time off to care for a loved one who's sick; where women have control over the health care decisions that affect their lives, and don't have to choose between their kids and their careers. It's not enough to have a holiday that honors women if we don't also make sure our laws value women.
This holiday is particularly meaningful to me because I would not be the person I am without the women in my life. I was raised by a single mother across two continents, and by a grandmother who instilled in me her own Midwestern values. And my wife Michelle - a woman who's overcome a number of challenges as a lawyer and hospital executive - continues to make me a better man.
Every night I'm home, Michelle and I tuck two little girls into bed. And we want to make sure that they have the same opportunities as every little boy in this country. That's the dream that women have fought for throughout our nation's history, and that's the dream I'll fight to make real as President of the United States.
Please visit Women.BarackObama.com to meet some of the incredible women supporting Barack Obama.
March 25, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like the Fox News Logo spinning in the left hand corner[snark]. I wonder how many of us have been in studio where the edits take place; or edit video on our desktop?
Who was conducting the poll? What was their motivation? Did they get paid? Where did Fox get the so-called focus group? African Americans aren't Independents, Democrats or Republicans?
There are too many questions?
Spin Works!
March 25, 2008 4:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry, Comments have been acting up. Can I help direct you to the Diary you thought you were replying to?
March 25, 2008 4:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did you even watch the video you linked?
March 25, 2008 6:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
For the most part I do appreciate your post. However I caution against what my brother in law has termed as the Oppression Olympics. That there exists an unfortunate placing of ones own preferred status in a hierarchy of victimization at the expense of other valid experiences.
What we must keep in mind is that each is but one facet in the intersecting systems of oppression, where class,race,gender,and identity intertwine.
It very much is still a White Heterosexual Male dominated society and even if power players aren't of that mold the game is.
Sorry if this comes off as a backhanded compliment.
March 25, 2008 5:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
But that's exactly what Rev. Wright was doing - "Hillary couldn't possibly have suffered discrimination like Blacks have suffered", more or less. I regularly point out the suffering - slaughter and repression and racism against - of Ukrainians, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Guatemalans, Mexicans and Ethiopians and Irish and Chinese and Native Americans and gays and so on. But if you work on race issues you're a Civil Rights leader, if you work on Women's Issues it's kind of the Birkenstock version of working on the school bake sale. There's a hierarchy.
March 25, 2008 5:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I suppose you can read his comments as establishing a hierarchical frame to it. I took it as jabs at her privilege, and distance from the affected communities though.
I can say from experience that working on economic issues you often deal with race and almost always deal with gender. As far as a difference between working on any social justice issues in my experience there is no separating race/gender/economics or otherwise and I would venture that most who work in social justice would say the same.
I actually think that the so called "post modern feminists" bear some of the blame for this "bake sale" notion, aside from the obvious institutional sexism of course.
March 25, 2008 6:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're probably right - we help make our own images, even if we do so under pressure.
March 25, 2008 6:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
A tip of the cap to your Brother-In-Law. I like that coin of phrase. A similar division seems to exist between the Black community and the Jewish Community in many places. Whenever it comes up, I'm as quick as I can to point out that there doesn't need to be a points system in place to determine whether slavery or the holocaust was "most horrible thing ever"; fifth place on the list is probably going to be pretty horrible too...
March 25, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
So can I be as obtuse as you can hang out here and talk about how we're post-gender and how you should just get over it and stop being angry because haven't we come so far already and why don't women realize just how much opportunity they have in this country? You know, since all you ever want to do is try and play tit-for-tat before you bother to puzzle out how ridiculous your "argument" is.
March 25, 2008 5:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, you could try "hey, you're right - Rev. Wright sure missed that angle". But I suppose 'obtuse' fits you better. Thanks for posting.
March 25, 2008 5:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, I'm just repeating the same arguments you've been making over the past couple of weeks about Wright. How does pointing out your hypocritical, false equivalency bullshit make me obtuse?
March 25, 2008 5:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, you've just been lofting the same vague criticisms at me for weeks without addressing my points and references, so I'm just responding humorously. (And recycling other people's comments about me - guess I've run out of ideas or like the irony of it).
March 25, 2008 6:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
There's nothing vague about my criticisms. This is a total non-sequitur. Racism exists. Sexism exists. So what's your point? Is your point that Wright should have been railing against sexism? How do you know he hasn't? All you or anyone else has done is watch the same five second clips and that's all you're talking about here. This whole post is a mountain of hyperbole that's somehow trying to say that sexism is worse than racism, which is just stupid. What does it even mean to say this? Why should one be weighed against the other in such a ridiculous fashion? Are we supposed to feel guilty that we don't want to vote for Hillary because Desidero told us about the realities of sexism?
Every time you post it's nothing but straw men and non-sequiturs. You spin so fast that you think people won't see it. Here's you last week:
So racism isn't really a problem anymore. We've had three black Senators since Reconstruction. But every police officer is a potential rapist. Women have to work more than twice as hard, but I guess there just aren't as many black men out there willing to work as hard as the white women to get to the Senate, right? Must be it. Maybe their parents should have gotten them Linux laptops, amirite?
You want to say last week that institutional racism is all but gone, but now you want to say that nothing has changed for women since Sojourner Truth. Give me a break.
The real joke here is that there isn't anyone present in this forum that isn't essentially familiar with the realities of racism or sexism in America and the truth is that you're trying to play both of them in favor of your candidate, but I can see right through you.
That specific enough for you?
March 25, 2008 6:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sojourner Truth was talking more socially than institutionally. Institutionally I say that racism isn't really accepted anymore, and there are very real teeth in the laws to support this. That doesn't mean racism has disappeared.
But at the end of the day, women face many of the same burdens of raising the kids and dealing with the home that they've done for thousands of years, and no, the basics of that equation have not changed that much in 150 years, and while there's been some improvement in ownership rights and recourse against violence, the violence status isn't that reassuring.
Rev. Wright slurred Hillary for not having a clue to discrimination while ignoring all sorts of discrimination and physical violence that women put up with. This has nothing to do with whether he or I would vote for Hillary. It has everything to do with recognizing what women put up with in a terribly sexist and dangerous-for-women society.
March 25, 2008 6:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
His comment was about the obvious privilege that a person of Clinton's status enjoys and had nothing to do with denying sexism or discrimination, but your purpose is to perpetually and, I believe, intentionally misunderstand such things.
March 25, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
C'mon, DF - Wright's point was that Clinton enjoyed certain privileges, like not being called n****r, by virtue of being white. Desidero is making a valid point and it is unclear to me why you are protesting so vigorously except to make the point, I suppose, that blacks do so have it worse than women.
Let's hear some personal testimony. What is the worst personal experience of racism or sexism you've encountered in your lifetime? I realize this is not a scientific poll, but I think it may be instructive. Here's mine. Not so very long ago, when I joined my department as a junior faculty woman at a major metropolitan medical school, there were two women full Professors among scores of men -- one known as a total bitch who enjoyed nothing better than humiliating younger women, the other known for helping to bring the next generation of women along. We all admired her and silently cheered her on, as she took on some of the more obnoxious men. My (male) boss invited me to a faculty cocktail party one night, and in front of another young woman who had just joined the faculty, he pointed to this one admired, respected, supportive senior woman Professor and said, "You know what they say about her? She won't open her legs to anyone."
March 26, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080310/ramdas
"...What is alarmingly absent from our conversations and arguments, even as they allude to race and gender, is any sense of how our decisions affect the well-being of people across the planet--not least the status of women, 51 percent of us, who are being treated with appalling brutality around the globe...."
just for some parallel/convergent commentary.
March 25, 2008 5:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nice article, but I cringe when I get to the part about "Barack Obama manifests what it means to be a global citizen". So the only thing that qualifies me to be a global citizen is an appropriate skin color and a mixed ethnic background (presumably better if an appropriate non-European type)?
I'm reminded of what I heard once - "I came home and found my wife in bed with a black man and a Vietnamese guy - so I took a photo and sent it to Colors magazine - you never know". Post-racial is sometimes code for "trendy racial".
And perish the thought that one of our candidates might not be considered relatively attractive (or at least kinda cute like a Smurf if we think about Ron Paul).
March 25, 2008 5:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
EUexpat,
yes and of that 51% the majority being women of color. Thanks for that link.
March 25, 2008 5:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
White is a color too, last time I checked my paint kit. So is tan, beige, yellow, red, brown and black.
Speaking of White, I suppose Rev. Wright doesn't spend a lot of time talking about the difficulties people face with Down's Syndrome ("Mongoloidism" to be old-school) or other challenges like autism, ALS, etc. Not just them, but their families - whatever ethnic group they might fall into. Talk funny? Be prepared for a lot of discrimination, bad jokes and cruelty. Walk spastic or even in a wheelchair? Yep, you'll get it too. Eyes don't work right? Trouble hearing? Step to the back please.
Being alive is often an affliction as well as a blessing. It's a shame that Rev. Wright seems so focused on a particular area of difficulty without putting it into perspective. Almost all of us are struggling, but we can put the positive parts of our struggle ahead to lighten our load. Isn't this part of a preacher's job?
March 25, 2008 6:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, and if you watched more than five seconds of his sermons you'd see that he's had a career of doing this, but people like you would rather pretend that this handful of moments are the reality of his entire work.
March 25, 2008 6:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Glad to know you're an expert on Wright. Care to share some links to his more loving all-inclusive moments?
March 25, 2008 7:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't need to do your research for you and I didn't claim to be an expert. I just did what any thinking person would do - I sought out and examined the context. Why don't you get yourself a $100 Linux laptop and investigate?
March 25, 2008 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I suppose you can read his comments as establishing a hierarchical frame to it. I took it as jabs at her privilege, and distance from the affected communities though.
March 25, 2008 5:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
They're all affected communities when you're a woman.
March 25, 2008 6:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
I heard Wright was vaca'ing in Europe. Not sure but I don't think Europe is that close to the affected communities..
March 25, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
troll, please just concentrate on doing a better job on the ground in Ohio this Nov.
March 25, 2008 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Out of the mouth of babes...and your "progressive"?
March 25, 2008 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can vacation in Italy, France, Turkey or Poland and you're not going to escape the sexist neighborhood.
March 25, 2008 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero,
Where do African American women fit into the picture you paint?
March 25, 2008 6:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please read the Sojourner Truth link I included. Where are the black female preachers? Black women have hurdles of both race and gender to deal with. Both need to be addressed.
March 25, 2008 6:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero, if you look at the Trinity Church staff page, you might see that five of the seven associate pastors are women. http://www.tucc.org/pastoral_staff.htm
Also, if you look at the Trinity Church videos on YouTube, you'll see Wright preaching on a variety of topics and see that the soundbites played over and over again on Fox are a very narrow view of the man. I spent 20 minutes the other day looking at a variety of the videos and came away with a far different perspective. (In one he criticized Tiger Woods for competing at a golf club that discriminates against women - Wright seems to rail against injustice in many different places and ways.)
I have seen nothing to suggest pervasive sexism in the church. Certainly, there is some. There's sexism in every part of our society. But I see no reason to believe Wright is a misogynist.
Yes, he criticized Hillary Clinton, but he wasn't attacking women in general. Some attacks on Hillary have been blatantly sexist and misogynistic. But some are simply personal and perfectly legitimate. It's important not to conflate the two.
I hate that some people are playing this election as sexism versus racism. Both are evils. Both are pervasive. Both are taking a very long time to overcome. Arguments that one is worse than the other are a waste of energy.
March 25, 2008 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the tip, I'll see what I find on YouTube.
I'd still question whether "personal" attacks from the pulpit are a good use of Christ's house, or in practical terms a good outreach method, or in this specific case whether he didn't fire a shotgun blast that sprayed a lot of people as well. Because again, he diminishes her struggle without knowing much about her, and diminishing women in the process. Remember how far down the line we got when Swift Boaters started attacking John Kerry's medals. Suddenly, all medals were suspect, there were no heroes, let's go and see if Bob Dole deserved his or George Bush Sr. deserved his. And once you start looking for warts, all you see is warts. Once we play one-upmanship, everybody is down.
March 25, 2008 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I liked the Vashti McKenzie video I saw as well as the book excerpts I read afterwards - she seems like someone with a good grasp of information - pertinent in terms of poltical/economic dangers, social relations, the nature of sexism in organizations and "success", etc. Check this one out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKIo7y-x2ew
There's also one on "Who benefits" on Social Security privatization and then some prophetic preaching ones.
I was disappointed by one quote, not on the TUCC site but following links - "“Feel good sermons” are not generally tolerated in black churches" - as if that was the end-all and be-all. Actually, it was the end-all along with 7 extensive paragraphs as to why whites should understand the black church but nothing about how blacks should understand whites and their viewpoints.
And another minister ticked off a list of TUCC's accomplishments as a response to recent Wright "soundbytes" on Fox. Wright himself had a bunch of people on stage getting tested for AIDS - I wonder if they do the same thing to focus on stopping drug use in the community, to focus on educational possibilities in the community - not just as a side ministry, but a major focus on what's crippling the black community and what can help the community.
My favorite was a dinner for successful blacks with what I felt was the denouement - the conversion of black focus from Civil Rights to Civil Responsibility. Actually very close to the point of Vashti McKenzie's speech.
DF has a problem with my "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" message (actually, "focus on what you can actually do yourself to make a difference" in my terms). Fortunately not everyone in the black community feels the same. And it's not about money - TUCC listed off a number of million dollar projects, and I once saw a much poorer black congregation come up with $10K in offerings in 5 minutes to pay for a choir recording. That's a lot of cheap Linux boxes.
March 26, 2008 5:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is an interest article All the Men Are Black, All the Women Are White, and Some of Us Vote: A Remix
March 25, 2008 6:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
link isn't working
March 25, 2008 7:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent piece - a working link is All the Men are Black...
March 25, 2008 7:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
"White is a color too, last time I checked my paint kit. So is tan, beige, yellow, red, brown and black"
Now I think you are being arguementative for arguement sake. The point of stressing women of color, is that by and large the debate is centered from only from the perspective of white western women. So yes women of color, because without keeping that in mind we will continue to only worry about a glass ceiling and not the mud floor.
"They're all affected communities when you're a woman."
This assertion of yours has no bearing on my statements in regards to the the Rev. She is distant from the affected community that he was addressing.
In fact I am now of the mind that your entire angle here is to drive a dead story using the blight of sexist oppression as your vehicle.
If that is the case then I take great umbrage, it is vile.
If I am wrong correct me, and my apologies.
March 25, 2008 6:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Argument for argument sake"? Women experience rape and threats and domestic violence every day, whatever color. They experience job discrimination and are more likely to be poor and have little access to a living wage or childcare while much more likely to have the burden of raising kids, and are often more impacted by the poor state of our health care system for both themselves and taking care of parents and children. Even for the huge problem of incarceration of blacks for drugs, women are often the ones picking up the pieces and carrying on outside the prison.
I don't know what "privilege" of Hillary Rev. Wright was referring to, but neither Barack or Michelle Obama seemed to lack privilege in the end run - both had a good education and significant opportunity. My comment on being a woman and the affected community was that you can't "leave the hood" - the sexism and discrimination and violence don't go away just because you made it to Phil Spector or Bobby Brown's mansion.
March 25, 2008 9:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
OK I get your meaning, I think we are actually concurring.
Clinton certainly does have privilege as well as Obama, though I don't see Wright's rant directed at her as anything other than stressing one perspective rather than any gender implication by omission or otherwise. My whole take on that particular rant of his would require a separate post, so as not to hijack your post (if I haven't done so already)
I will say I was a bit leery of this drifting into the intra-party rancor, because the subject you raised is way more important than any candidate.
Sorry if I got pissy, hope you can see how my train of thought got where to where it was.
March 25, 2008 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Damn! Thats two posts in a row with no sleep and no spell check.
March 25, 2008 9:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, it's not like I'm reluctant to push buttons, and I think there are a variety of gender issues important to push on now because we're not going to see them without a female candidate.
March 25, 2008 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
No we all push regardless.
March 25, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure the lifelong Secret Service protection that Hillary Clinton enjoys insulates her from incidents at Phil Spector's mansion.
March 25, 2008 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you knew anything about the feminist movement you'd know this is bullshit. The feminist movement has always encompassed women and the oppressed all over the world. Unfortunately, since the vast majority of people only have the most superficial grasp of the history (or any history) they tend to roll with the memes they know.
March 25, 2008 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
What is bullshit?
March 25, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your bullshit notion that the feminist movement is all about white women. The fact that you don't know it's bullshit says all there is to say about it.
The feminist movement has always been about equal rights for everyone, from 1856, when Stanton and Anthony put aside suffrage to support the anti-slavery movement, to Frederick Douglass using their help and support to further the goals of the Equal Rights Amendment Society and then throwing them under the carriage wheels by refusing to include them in the amendment saying, "white women already have the vote through their husbands and fathers" to the labour movement in this country refusing to support equal pay and equal opportunity for women workers, to Martin Luther King's refusal to once again specifically include women in the civil rights act and the civil rights movements in this country throwing women under the wheels to promote their own agenda - through all that time, women have ALWAYS included and pushed for the equal rights of all people and even a cursory reading of feminist history would tell you that. No movement in this country has worked harder, put more boots on the ground, spent more money and devoted more time than the feminist movements in two centuries of the promotion of human rights in this world.
March 25, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
No it is not all about white women, however by and large the debate is centered that way. Hey I don't make the racial dynamics of the left!
And I was not talking about the history of the movement. To pull that to refute what I am saying is just dishonest. I suspect you just want to fight about it though.
March 25, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I'm an Obama supporter, and I'll acknowledge that this is a place where Rev Wright certainly could have been more thoughtful. He dismisses Hillary much too quickly as privileged solely on the grounds of race, without thinking hard enough about the rest of her experience.
She's got certain kinds of advantages. But there's also no question that she's had to overcome obstacles, and she's done it well.
Moreover, I'm very pleased that yesterday she spent some time attacking McCain instead of *just* dragging down the party. If she keeps attacking McCain, I think you'll find that Obama supporters become positively civil.
March 25, 2008 8:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for that acknowledgment.
I think as a society we don't understand how quickly we judge women and how quickly we marginalize them if they don't fit a particular niche or expected behavior. And this is done by both men and women.
March 25, 2008 9:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let me correct my comment of earlier today. When I wrote the note above, I was hoping that Hillary would go back to running as a Democrat.
Today, she has evidently decided that she needs to run as a Republican. I'm very deeply disappointed in her, and I would urge conscientious Democrats to withdraw their support from her campaign.
She is not helping to advance any of the goals she claims to care about -- including feminist goals that will be very much at stake in the Supreme Court. Please, people, think about the consequences of this sort of divisiveness in the Democratic Party.
March 25, 2008 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bravo! But remember this is about Obama and his supporters, the rest don't matter, just ask Mich. and Fla.
March 25, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wright is a preacher, and if there's one thing most of the big three religions can agree on, save for a few denominational exceptions, it's that women are and always will be God's second-class citizens. (Hatred of gays would be the other thing they could all agree one.) So while I fumed a little when I heard his casual dismissal of what Hillary hasn't been up against, in the next second I remembered what we're dealing with here--a fundamentally irrational person. When looking for wisdom concerning women's issues, preachers (and rabbis and imams) aren't the people to turn to.
That said, Wright's opinions on race in this country are completely on-target to me, and really pretty tame considering all the fuss that's being made over him.
March 25, 2008 9:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
From a practical standpoint, if I was going to waste 20 years of Sundays going to church, I'd want one where I got some benefit out of it, say furthering my career. (That is why most people go to church, right?) Or at least wouldn't damage my career.
One comment on race that got me mad was "What does my faith say about the fact that my girl can’t be a nuclear physicist because she’s black and from the inner city and because her schooling options are not what they are for George W. Bush’s girls or for Bill and Hillary’s daughter Chelsea?" So how did Michelle graduate from Harvard? Magnet School. How many black astronauts rode or commanded the Shuttle? 12, including 4 women. Why is the Reverend preaching futility in the land of at least moderate if not excellent opportunity? With the internet, with the rise of black incomes and good jobs in the 90's, with the resources poured into education in this country, I don't understand where his futility comes from, and why he's preaching it to others. It's not an easy shining path, but it's not a closed door either.
And then there's "I mean, you got Christians who lynch people in the name of Jesus, and you got Muslims who fly planes into buildings. But you got some Muslims who don’t do that. You got some Christians who ain't got time to lynch people." Makes me think you got some preachers who ought to make way for someone with better sense and less irrational hate.
March 25, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know I thought I knew where you were coming from and then you write this. Breaking out I dare say, tokenism to gloss over and denigrate the realities the man spoke of. You harp on Wright at the expense of the issue you purported to be raising. It is just about him after all, for all the high minded sentiment.
bait and switch eh?
Tawdry.
March 25, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Who's tawdry? Wright is going after women, after whites, talking about lynching as if it's going on outside his door every day and like every white person is just aching to string someone up. He's throwing out some pretty big mean language there, and while people seem to see the racial part (and many rush to defend it as being somehow required and justified because of slavery), they don't see his sexism and the sexism of the whole argument in this campaign.
Maybe he was attacking Hillary as a child of privilege as Larry seems to think, just typical class warfare, but I still find it sexist and myopic that he can't look beyond his own issues and see brazen issues that others in society have to deal with. I don't see the "reaching across the aisle". I see one set of boats set to rise at the expense of another. Now maybe Rev. Wright jackknifes between an offensive statement and a few kind statement, but those offensive statements tend to stick to the ribs. People in wheelchairs might not have been called n*****r either, but it doesn't mean they don't have their own sets of issues to deal with in life. (Not that I particularly want to equate being female with being in a wheelchair).
March 25, 2008 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
No it turns out that really you are hiding behind faux idealism to cynically drive campaign season talking points. Your intent here is not to address sexism, nor to address any subtexts that you find in Wrights speech. Nope just to spread rancor all dressed up and repackaged. You cheapen women's struggles with this.
Very Disappointing
March 25, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the psychological evaluation. Can I pay with credit card, and do you accept private insurance?
March 25, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not if you have a preexisting condition.
March 25, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bingo.
March 25, 2008 4:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nail on the head Desi. Preaching futility rather than hope. Obvious difference between Minister Wright and MLK.
March 25, 2008 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course one of the main reasons for going to that particular church is to see and be seen.
March 25, 2008 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
One out of three urban black males won't reach age 30. That's a hell of a closed door, don't you think?
March 25, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here are some graphs on violence by age and gender.
Think maybe your figures are a little dated?
A good rousing hand-clap for Bill Clinton as well, look at those 1993-2001 numbers.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/race.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/vage.htm
It's not racist to notice race and actually want to do something about problems.
March 26, 2008 6:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero,
So is your argument that women have it worse the African-Americans in America? We could argue all day about that one. I think it's safe to say they've both been oppressed and both continue to have a harder ladder to climb in America because of ongoing sexism and racism. And so Obama and Clinton have a shared history of oppression.
It's just folly to label someone not supporting Hillary as a sexist, because then we could throw out all kinds of charges about people based on the candidates they do or do not support.
Your example of the Civil Rights Movement is correct. (in fact, Rosa Parks was not the first person to refuse to give move for a white person on a Montgomery Bus. 9 months prior a 15 year old girl named Claudette Colvin was the first but she was not seen as a good spokesperson for the campaign against segregation so they waited until they found someone better. Some historians have suggested that there was ageism and classism involved when the local civil rights structure did not rally around Colvin). I digress.
The civil rights movement was dominated by a sexist culture and many men rec'd all the credit for the hard work of women who were on the frontlines. That doesn't necessarily make your point though. At that time in America, would you have rather have been a black man in Mississippi or a white woman in Illinois? Hell, again, these questions of who had/has it worse are ridiculous.
This is a long way of saying that I disagree with your constantly making Obama supporters into anti-women. That's how it feels and as someone who feels strongly about civil rights for women, people of color, GLBT, youth, etc., I take offense to that characterization.
March 25, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
MLK picked the worst place to walk to because he knew there'd be the meanest looking dogs. There's no point in doing a long march and not getting a good photo op.
Similarly, there was no point in fighting the bus seating in a way that drew a vague line, justified or not. Rosa Parks had no strikes against her, so the NAACP and MIA (?) could push for all they were worth without the case being decided on some irrelevant principle. You play your strongest hand, because you won't get a second one.
I don't think all Obama supporters are sexist or even that they all hate Hillary, and even if they hate Hillary it doesn't make them sexist. Rev. Wright is sexist simply because he is blind in his hate. That doesn't mean he doesn't have love in him, but the hate he's holding inside himself makes him truly flawed as a preacher. Obviously with all the preacher scandals that makes him a dime a dozen, but still it's a shame.
But as a wakeup call, if you support Obama, it's not enough to reach across racial divisions to be "all-inclusive". There's more that divides us than just race. And with over 50% of the population and about 60% of the Democratic electorate, women are an important constituency, and just may require a certain amount of respect before they vote whole-heartedly or even hold-the-nose type. But as I write this, I'm actually just sick of that whole equation - the global citizen, the gender card, etc.
Look, identity politics didn't die, because people have serious issues related to who they are. Sandra O'Connor may have been Supreme Court Justice, but she's worried about health insurance for her grandkids - that doesn't mean she's poor, but it doesn't mean she can carry 4 genarations of million dollar health policies on her shoulders. Women have discrimination and safety issues and job issues, blacks have discrimination and safety issues and job issues. In some places these issues overlap, in some places they're different. But we also have to think about gay & lesbian issues, issues with Hispanics, issues with the elderly, issues of education for the young, issues for people in prime working age who simply need to work, whether starting their own business or as an employee, merge all these together, find working common denominators but do our best not to leave out anything essential and all-important. Right now we've lost track of half the issues except marginally those concerning race, a bit of health care and education, and the Republican points on war, terror and Social Security. It's not enough. Rev. Wright has his little street corner in Chicago and he can keep it, but if Obama wants the nation, or at least his party, he needs to speak more persuasively to the doubters than the "I'm here for Ashley" stuff. And if Hillary really wants the white vote and something more, maybe her path lies in spending a week going to black neighborhoods and explaining how she plans on addressing their issues, their needs and their complaints, attempting to reconcile the misconstrued words of the last 6 months, and how she'll do that even if they're supporting the other guy, simply because she understands that need for identity, that grounding that attempts to counteract the diaspora of the past, even for the Baracks who aren't part of the diaspora but need a family. Because it is a village, we are tribal, but we don't have to be pitted so firmly against each other.
March 25, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero:
Is your ultimate point that Hillary has it worse or that they both had it bad? If you say they both had it bad I can agree with you - I don't agree with Reverend Wright on that point about Clinton.
To say Hillary had it worse, I think is specious. It gets into what an earlier poster here said is the oppression olympics. Is it 15% worse to be a woman? Or is it 25% worse to be a woman? Or 23% worse to be black? And a black woman? Do we average?
They both had obstacles because of their race and gender - serious obstacles. Both had serious privilege - best elite schools in country, name recognition for Clinton to launch her Senate career, lousy Republican candidate ran against Obama.
So there, I think we are even.
March 25, 2008 10:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
My point is to ask why Rev. Wright is trashing a woman as never having to face discrimination when most every woman is faced with discrimination and the threat of violence throughout their lives. This has little or nothing to do with Hillary per se, and everything to do with sexist assumptions and myopia. Not that some (Larry?) aren't jumping on the "priviliged people" bandwagon.
March 25, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Rev. Wright is wrong if he believes women have it easer than people of color.
And you are wrong if you believe that women have it harder than people of color.
Please stop insinuating or writing that Obama supporters as sexists in your varios posts. It's just not true.
March 25, 2008 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
How can I have mo'lasses when I ain't had none yet? How I can I stop insinuating when I haven't got started?
Just because you read stuff in my words that's not there doesn't mean it's my job to take it out, though it will make me try to be careful.
March 25, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're putting words into his mouth. He never said anything of the sort. He said that Hillary Clinton fits the mold of a Washington insider, partly because of her race, but I'd have to say that what he said is accurate given the history. You might not like that she more closely fits the mold of a Washington insider, but that's just sour grapes.
March 25, 2008 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't seen data, but I'm willing to bet that Iraqi women have suffered a great deal more than men, from the war in Iraq. From the re-imposition of sharia law by militias to the disproportionate burden placed on women to care for wounded family members, the struggle to find clean water, to maintain a household without electricity. The streets are certainly more dangerous for women.
The same would no doubt be true for Iranian women if the bellicose fantasies of Kyl-Lieberman were allowed to come to fruition.
Are women in Cuba more likely to benefit from Barak Obama's policy of engagement and dialogue, or HRC's warmed over cold-warriorism?
March 25, 2008 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I might not agree with your description of the candidates, but at least you're looking at some of the actual issues that affect women on the ground.
March 25, 2008 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wealth is the ticket to being exempt from most of the problems of being part of any opressed group. Sen Clintons privileged youth protected her. Women may face as much discrimination as Blacks, but rich members of either group are clearly better off than the poor ones of the other group. Sen Clinton was and remains a child of privilege.
March 25, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh goodie, I knew we'd get around to class arguments sooner or later. Let's talk wealth redistribution - you bring your Monopoly set, I'll bring my Risk board.
Now tell me, if Hillary went to a public school and Michelle went to a public magnet school, and Hillary graduated from Yale and Michelle graduated from Harvard, should we say Michelle was a child of privilege too?
So now let's look at this child of privilege, because her father started his own business 2 years before she was born, so it gives you an idea that she might not have been so privileged at first, which might have been why she went to public school in the first place. Tell me if this sounds like growing up with the Rockefellers.
--
Hugh Ellsworth Rodham attended Pennsylvania State University on a football scholarship, playing for the Penn State Nittany Lions football team[2] and joining the Delta Upsilon Fraternity.[2] He graduated with a Bachelor of Science degree in physical education[2] from the College of Education in 1935, at the height of the Great Depression.
He briefly worked for his father's employer, Scranton Lace Company,[4] then freighthopped to Chicago without telling his parents.[2] Rodham found work there selling drapery fabrics around the Midwest, sending the money he made back home.[2]
In 1937, he met Dorothy Emma Howell, who was applying for a job at a textile company that Rodham was making a sales call at.[4][2] After a lengthy courtship, they married in early 1942.[2] Rodham enlisted in the United States Navy, where he became a Chief Petty Officer stationed at the Great Lakes Naval Station, performing training duties for sailors headed for the Pacific Ocean theater of World War II.[2]
After the war, he began what was to prove to be a very successful career in the textile supply industry, starting with Rodrik Fabrics, a drapery fabric business located in Chicago's famous Merchandise Mart building.[2] He later opened a fabric print plant building on the North Side.[2]
The Rodhams had three children: Hillary (born 1947), Hugh (born 1950), and Tony (born 1954). In 1950, they moved to the more affluent Chicago suburb of Park Ridge, Illinois.[2] The family still maintained ties to Scranton; all three children were christened there, and they spent summers at a cottage overlooking Lake Winola located in Overfield Township, Pennsylvania in the nearby Pocono Mountains,[4][2] that he and his father had built themselves in 1921.[5]
March 25, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
As did Obama's middle class white background that exempts him from the argument? SO? where does that leave you. Your arguing "who was poorest". Dumb
March 25, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Sen Clinton was and remains a child of privilege."
As does Michelle and Barack Obama and their two wee little ones as well..So what is the point? Is it that a child of priviledge can do no good? Can only underpriviledged children help other underpriviledged children? Is Charity really some sort of subversion by aristocrats to keep underpriviledged children in a poor environment? If we are talking about sexism, which goes to every single race and community in the world, then lets not get it all mumbled up with racism. Sexism is embbedded in EVERY social economic area on the globe.It festers under the covers in America and is open and in full view in our third world nations. Most of it caused by MENS interpretation of what the bible or the Koran or whatever the instrument of the holy man is. I actually heard a woman say she couldn't vote for Hillary because her place is not in the White House oval office, but in the kitchen. She said the bible tells her that. She is voting for Obama. She put her hand over her mouth as if to whisper and said "the bible doesn't say anything about a black man". I wanted to slap her, but with no mind of her own to debate with, I just walked away.
March 25, 2008 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton didn't have a "privileged youth" and I am damned sick and tired of you spreading that meme every chance you get. She grew up in the same kind of middle class neighborhood that Obama grew up in and Wright's bullshit that Clinton is an "entitled white woman" is just that - bullshit.
March 25, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi Bev, good to see you.
I think we had the tone a notch or two below this. To quote a famous Czech writer, "Don't shoot, there are people here".
March 25, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero-
So let me get this right, Rev Wright should get over his feelings of victimization because things have gotten better for Black folks, but women are still endlessly victimized so as a woman I must vote for HRC? Do you really not see the duplicity? That argument is so self serving it took a few minutes for it to really sink in....
A rising tide lifts all boats. If we as Democrats work for civil rights and economic fairness then all if these groups station in life will improve- along with a lot of white males, too. There is no contest to see who is the more disenfranchised, just a specious argument put forward by partisans hoping to keep an embarrassing story going.
What some older femninists are missing in this whole situation is younger women's ability to appreciate the struggles of those who came before us without being completely defined and obsessed with them. I'm a Title IX baby, I grew up knowing that I could play sports, go to college, work in corporate America, date an African American, even have an abortion legally if I so wished. I can honestly say that I have never experienced the rampant sexism or fear that you describe, and I live below the Mason Dixon line. In fact, I'm more than a little tired of being told by the HRC campaign that I'm a victim and only she can defend me.
HRC is an incredibly accomplished woman, but she does not have the experience she has claimed in this campaign. If I'm to be expected to vote for her as leader of the free world, she'd better be prepared to answer tough questions. You can make the "woman as victim, she has to work twice as hard" statement as much as you want, but the fact is that she has gotten caught on multiple occasions padding her resume and lying about her previous positions. I'm not going to give her a pass on that just because we share the same plumbing.
March 25, 2008 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can you all quit with the "so I must vote for HRC" bit? I never said anyone had to vote for HRC. I never said that only HRC can defend you. I said it's sexist and myopic the way Wright talked about her, and that would be any woman he talked about like that. You may have had a safe easy life as a woman in America, but there are many who haven't. Actually I have a cousin who sued one of the famous Southern schools under Title IX. Seems that electric outlets in the women's locker room were just too difficult to install. But that's possibly a small unimportant issue compared to say violence and job discrimination against women. And women do a good job of not being victims - starting their own home businesses, creatively arranging their lives to handle all the tasks and obligations. So just because a woman doesn't bray about a lot of discrimination doesn't mean Rev. Wright has to get all snarly and dismissive towards her.
Doesn't this man understand basic respect, for self and for others?
March 25, 2008 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm happy to hear this. There were a good many instances where Hillary threw women and feminists under the bus, so I am truly happy to hear a story like this. I do not want to believe the worst about her.
However, in terms of this post, I'm a 57 year old white female and a feminist. And it's harder for black guys than it is for women I think. I think racial stereotypes are more potent than gender stereotypes, although gender stereotypes are probably more deeply imbedded.
A case can be made for both enduring discrimination. That's just the truth. But I do see a consistent effort on the part of the Clinton campaign (through surrogates, but a long, established pattern that cannot be denied) of using fear conflated with Obama's race and I find it reprehensible, coming from a democrat. It offends me. And it doesn't matter that I'm a woman and she's a woman -- I'm trying my damnedest to judge both candidates with color and gender blindness.
And I like HIllary less and less.
March 25, 2008 11:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks so much for sharing this, great for morale. I support Hillary, now and in years past, and when I see the possibility of what the US may be missing in the next 4 years, It saddens me. She has always inspired me, most of my contributions are to childrens charities and mostly because she has shown me by walking the walk. Thanks again.
March 25, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Veronica, not sure I get your post. I didn't hear anyone tell you who you had to vote for. In fact, I think Hillary has gone out of her way of distancing herself from the "womens movement". Same can be said for Obama as well for what we know now are Obvious reasons.
Not taking words out of her mouth I would say Desi is just trying to educate people not only about womens struggles but of Hillary as a person.
I find a lot of the statements concerning women and womens' rights on this "progressive" site to be alarming. I certainly didn't expect them and that they are here are obviously an indication to the problem.
What I find upsetting is the total lack of ackowledgement of the largest minority group in our country and what is the total lack of interest in the struggles they face each day.
March 25, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
It kind of says a lot that Hillary would have to separate herself from the women's movement.
March 26, 2008 3:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is Senator Clinton running against Rev. Wright or Senator Obama. I know you would like to make it against Rev.Wright, but he is not a candidate for President.
Senator Clinton is running for President and she has endorsed War Monger McCain as being qualified to be Commander in Chief, ahead of Peace candidate Obama of her own party.
That makes Senator Clinton still a war enabler. If she truly wants to see the Iraq War, which she voted for, ended, she could never state that the man who wishes to continue Bush's Iraq War would make a great Commander in Chief.
I don't care about which gender is in charge. I do care that there is only one true Peace Candidate. Senator Clinton voted for the Iraq War, and late last year she voted for the Kyl/Lieberman ploy to attack Iran.
Now she endorses War Monger McCain ahead of Democrat Obama. That makes Senator Clinton a traitor to her own party.
Hillary is the new Lieberman.
March 25, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wash, rinse, recycle.
March 25, 2008 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, that's indeed what you appear to do.
March 25, 2008 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just don't understand where the intolerance comes from? Call me stupid, but I am white and male, and I will never know what it is to be a woman and I will never know what it is to be Black. In fact the closest I can get it is to have a shared experience with both women and people of color. Whatever your viewpoint on Rev Wrights comments, sure I can agree that many of his words used in that clip ignore many glaring realities. But we live in a world where discrimination happens for any number of reasons, not just exclusively because of race, gender but also of class and other completely irrelevant reasons. Humans do any number of irrelevant or irrational, which is probably the better word to use, things which could be classified as bias or ignorance, right? DO we sometimes lack a certain perspective on individual cases for problems and bias and thus lump grievances into categorizations in order to see a greater pattern for these problems, sure! Look I hate the establishment too, and I think bias is wrong, I see the world through my eyes, I try to be as objective as possible but I am guilty of subjective ness too, so where does that leave me?
This is a needed conversation but a community conversation that needs to take place within our own communities as reflection on the bigger community as whole. Some other conversations which need to happen are those which are supposedly banned from the dinner table, politics, religion and economics and its cumulative effects in making our world better for all generations through the world to come. We have the intelligence now let’s see if we have the fortitude to keep the conversation going!
And by the way does anybod know any trick to staying logged in? It always kicks me out after about an hour and I have to log out then log in again?
March 25, 2008 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hopefully this is one such conversation.
March 25, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
If he is the true "peace" Candidate can he please tell his "family" in Kenya to stop the genocide they are perpetuating?
March 25, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/CGG4L
"Thank you for having me on your show this morning.
I have been following the situation in Kenya closely, and I am deeply concerned by the news and photographs I have seen. I want you to know that my thoughts and prayers – and those of my family – are with all of the victims of the violence, the families who have lost love ones, the shop owners who have lost their investments and livelihood, the thousands who have fled their homes with just the belonging they could carry.
Urgent action must be taken to stop this spiral of violence, and to help resolve the current political crisis.
Kenya has long been known as a multi-ethnic society. The steps you have taken toward multi-party democracy in recent years have set a proud example for east Africa.
I have personally been touched by your generous, democratic spirit through my ties to my own family, and during my travels to Kenya –most recently as a United States Senator in 2006. This Kenyan spirit rises above ethnic groups or political parties, and was on display in Kenya’s recent election, when you turned out to vote in record numbers, and in a peaceful and orderly way.
But recent troubling events in Kenya bear no resemblance to the Kenya I know and carry with me. The senseless and tragic violence poses an urgent and dangerous threat to Kenyans, Kenyan democracy, and stability and economic development in a vital region.
Most troubling are new indications that the violence is being organized, planned and coordinated.
Clearly, Kenya has reached a defining moment. There is no doubt that there were serious flaws in the vote tabulation. There is also no doubt that actions taken by both sides in the aftermath of the election have deepened the political impasse.
Now is not the time to throw Kenyan democracy and national unity away. Now is the time for all parties to renounce violence.
Now is the time for Kenya’s leaders to rise above party affiliation and past divisions for the sake of peace. President Kibaki, Raila Odinga, and all of Kenya’s leaders – political, civic, business, and religious -- have a responsibility to calm tensions, to come together unconditionally, and to pursue a political process to address peacefully the controversies that divide them.
This crisis and terrible violence must end. A negotiated solution must be peaceful and political, and should take account of past failures and prevent future conflict.
The rule of law and the rights of the Kenyan people – including freedom of the media and the freedom of peaceful assembly – must be restored. The opposition must turn away from the path of mass protest and violence in seeking participation in government.
Recent efforts by African Eminent Persons, like Kofi Annan, have yielded very modest progress, and there is no reason President Kibaki and Mr. Odinga should refuse to sit down unconditionally. To refuse to do so ignores the will of Kenyans and the urging of the united international community. While only Kenyans can resolve this crisis, I urge you to welcome the assistance of your concerned friends in working through this difficult time.
The deep frustrations that are felt on allsides of the Kenyan divide are understandable. There is no doubt that much more work remains to be done for Kenya to become a more equitable and democratic society.
But Kenya has come too far to throw away decades of progress in a storm of violence and political unrest. We must not look back years from now and wonder how and why things were permitted to go so horribly wrong. Kenya, its African friends, and the United States must now be determined pursuers of peace – and this determined pursuit must start today with individual Kenyans refusing to resort to violence, and Kenyan leaders accepting their responsibility to turn away from confrontation by coming together.
Kenya’s long democratic journey has at times been difficult. But at critical moments, Kenyans have chosen unity and progress over division and disaster. The way forward is not through violence. To all of Kenya’s people, I urge you to renounce the violence that is tearing your great country apart and deepening suffering. I urge you to follow a path of peace."
March 25, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi Jack?
March 25, 2008 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, I should have just done the link. I took Louisville's bait.
March 25, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are fuc*ing serious?
March 25, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desidero, may I suggest you print out all of your posts and comments on Wright and submit them to Fox News as your resume for a commentator position. They are looking for people that can remove all context from a story, create straw man arguments for it, introduce new angles with no real connection, and can milk it until the cow is a bag of bones.
March 25, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm submitting it as "My Fairy Tale". You can play the Good Witch Glenda if you like.
March 25, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I prefer Elphaba :o)
March 25, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
No dice. I'm dealing with 100% unadulterated positive energy in this play.
March 25, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of Obama's earmarks:
Obama Requested $900,000 For The Women's Sports Foundation’s Go Girl Go Chicago Initiative. In 2006, Obama requested $900,000 for the Women’s Sports Foundation’s Go Girl Go initiative, which targets inactive teenagers between the ages of 8 and 18 who are at-risk for social behavioral indiscretions including dropping out of school and becoming involved in drugs, alcohol, and other risky health and social behavior. The program is delivered through partner youth-serving schools and organizations. GoGirlGo also provides cash grants to enable socio-economically underprivileged girls to participate in physical activity. The program aims to work with parents, coaches, after school programs and youth organizations to get inactive girls involved in regular physical activity which prevents involvement in other socially risky behavior. GoGirlGo will provide direct financial support, free curriculum materials and technical assistance to schools, recreation agencies and 300 non-profit girl-serving organizations that are committed to addressing the needs of sedentary girls, and the program will serve as the basis for a national model. [Obama Request Letter To The Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice, Science, 4/6/06]
March 25, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
This might make you feel a little better Desidero, in addition to concluding your many doubts on Obama's position and understanding of women's issues.
Senator Barack Obama today released the following statement on Women's History Month:
Women's History Month isn't just a chance to celebrate women's history; it's a chance to honor the extraordinary role women have played in shaping American history. From midnight journeys on the Underground Railroad to marches for women's suffrage and civil rights, from the bomber assembly lines of World War II to the boardrooms of today, women have always shown us what we can achieve when we refuse to settle for the world as it is and choose to remake the world as it should be.
But despite the achievements we honor this month, we know we still have challenges to overcome. We need to build an America where women earn the same pay as men for the same work, and have time off to care for a loved one who's sick; where women have control over the health care decisions that affect their lives, and don't have to choose between their kids and their careers. It's not enough to have a holiday that honors women if we don't also make sure our laws value women.
This holiday is particularly meaningful to me because I would not be the person I am without the women in my life. I was raised by a single mother across two continents, and by a grandmother who instilled in me her own Midwestern values. And my wife Michelle - a woman who's overcome a number of challenges as a lawyer and hospital executive - continues to make me a better man.
Every night I'm home, Michelle and I tuck two little girls into bed. And we want to make sure that they have the same opportunities as every little boy in this country. That's the dream that women have fought for throughout our nation's history, and that's the dream I'll fight to make real as President of the United States.
Please visit Women.BarackObama.com to meet some of the incredible women supporting Barack Obama.
March 25, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
"If he is the true "peace" Candidate can he please tell his "family" in Kenya to stop the genocide they are perpetuating?"
Now that is a truly idiotic comment. Why is "family" in quotation marks? Obama's family aren't really family?
Louisville, you really think Obama's relatives are genocidaires? And that he can end the killings by telling his relatives to stop?
Or do you mean to say that all the Luo are Obama's "family", and they are perpetuating a genocide? Do you even read the paper? The candidate who won the election (but had it stolen from him) was the Luo. The incumbent who stole the election was a Kikuyu. So even if you want to blame an entire ethnic group for the political killings on both sides (which is pretty crazy given that the overwhelming majority of both groups weren't involved in any violence), it's hard to understand how you'd pick the Luo to blame.
Or do you mean "family" to include all the black people in Kenya? So Obama is an insincere peacemaker as long as any black people anywhere are doing any bad things?
In breaking news, the rioting there has been over for weeks. Thank God.
March 25, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ach, this country's been there, done this Oppression Olympics before, two words: Anita Hill.
Having national conversations on it is good, I guess, just doesn't have much to do with Obama or the primary, just as it didn't have much to do with Clarence Thomas becoming a Supreme. In his case there were much more serious reasons to worry about his confirmation.
The point: you aren't going to solve it with either an Obama or Hillary presidency, has little to do with that.
Check out the ever continuing discussion on Oprah.com if you want more.
March 25, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've read almost half the comments, but can't wait any longer to express a couple of things. I'm a 51 year old white mother of 3 (one daughter). I identify myself as a feminist. Because of attitudes like the ones expressed in this post, though, I have never really made feminism the main focus of my political activism. Why? "Walking while female" for example. Perhaps that's a political problem that Hillary Clinton can solve, but I don't think so - but while we're talking about violence against a class of people, what color do you think most victims of crime are? "According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports, in 2005 about 49% of murder victims were white, 49% were black, and 3% were Asians, Pacific Islander, and Native American". Blacks are 13% of the population. "According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports, most murder victims were male, 79% in 2005." Of course, women are overrepresented in rapes, but that's the only violent crime that women are more likely to face than men. So, yeah, in some ways it sucks being female but my female bosses weren't any more understanding or compassionate than my male bosses about my household responsibilities, and my household politics have a lot to do with what I'm willing to put up with. Does gender play a role and could things be better? Yes, but as a matter of national policy, I'm not sure if Hillary has a "plan" to get us there. It's an issue complicated by social and religious attitudes rather than legal hurdles.
March 25, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're right that black men are their own worst problem - most black men are killed by black men, even without oppressive drug laws black men would have to deal with addiction, even with a complete lack of racism and $100 billion to spend on education black men would still have to do the work to be educated and then creative in the work force, whether working for someone else or building their own businesses. But one piece of excellent news is that black victimization of violence was cut to 1/3 between 1993 and 2001 - 34.3 out of 1000 down to 12.6/1000.
But we're also not just talking about murder. And nonfatal intimate violence against women went from 1 out of 1000 to about 3.5/1000 in the last 15 years. 1% chance annually of suffering intimate violence if you were a woman. Being "intimate", that means you can't just lock your door and mind your own business - it's behind your door already, someone you know. Simple assault, rape/sexual attack, aggravated assault, robbery, in order.
So Dee Dee, you're wrong in that simple assault remains about 4-5 times that of rape amongst intimates, and it's much more likely to occur against women - see the BLS caveat: "Note: Information about intimate partner victimization of males is provided as average annual estimates because the small number of cases was insufficient for reliable estimates."
Take a look at the chart at
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/vsx2.htm
and you can see that male of victimization of violence has now decreased to just 50% more than women's over the last 15 years. The improvements have benefited women as well, but it still gives pause to think of different behavior and wonder how few times in my life I've seen women do anything that might give cause to receive any kind of violence.
And again, the point is not who's suffered most. It's that people like Rev. Wright seem to have no clue what many women experience and what hurdles they have to deal with. Has Hillary been raped or attacked? Did she ever have an abortion? Many women never say, and 40 years ago, it was kept even more quiet. Let's focus on the issues we know about, and cut everyone some slack for having enough burden to carry.
March 26, 2008 6:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Shit, I meant "10 out of 1000 in 1993", not "1 out of 1000 in 1993". 1% chance of a woman suffering intimate violence back in 1993. It was down to 3.6/1000 in 2005, though one has to also consider non-reporting of violence when evaluating.
March 26, 2008 6:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Liam, you're absolutely right that Hillary = Lieberman. Sorry, but it's impossible to get around it when you look at her votes.
March 25, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
".... just where the hell are the women preachers anyway?
Actually there are a fair number of them.
The black churches in particular have been hospitable to women as preachers & pastors. Check these prominent black women ministers out:
Prathia Laura Ann Hall, pastor of Mt. Sharon Baptist Church in Philadelphia. Ironically, perhaps, an article in Ebony, written before the current fracas, quotes none other than Jeremiah Wright -- who says Hall is in "a class of her own," and lifts " the gospel to new levels."
Vashti M. McKenzie, pastor of Payne Memorial AME Church in Baltimore. In 2000 McKenzie became the first female bishop in the AME Church.
Some more: Suzan Johnson Cook, founder and senior pastor of Bronx Christian Fellowship Church, N.Y., Ann Farrar Lightner-Fuller, pastor of Mt. Calvary AME Church in Towson, Md., Delores H. Carpenter, senior pastor of Michigan Park Christian Church in Washington, D.C.
There are lots more. Note that these women are all pastors or senior pastors of their own churches. The pattern in many white churches that accept women pastors is that women pastors tend to be "associate pastors" or "youth pastors," etc.
March 25, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I mentioned above, Vashti McKenzie seems quite talented and intelligent from the little I know.
March 26, 2008 6:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm confused -- I didn't think we were voting on what demographic has been oppressed the most. I thought we were voting on who we wanted to lead our country for the next 4-8 years. I can't really see how the two are related, sorry.
March 25, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nah, didn't you get the memo? It's the Oppression Olympics.
March 25, 2008 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rev. Wright started with the "she don't feel our pain" meme, and I'm just responding. I made fun of idiots like the Jerry Falwells of the world, and now it looks like it's equal time for Rev. Wright. (And yes, Jerry Falwell had some wonderful charitable ministries as part of his church but he was still a bigoted intolerant a**hole). Not that I would have noticed or cared about Rev. Wright without the Obama connection, but now that the subject's been brought up...
March 26, 2008 6:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
More women go to college than men. More women are getting advanced degrees than men. After compensating for non-sexist factors, like years in the workforce, overtime and industry women earn more than 95 cents for every dollar men earn.
That 77 cent figure everyone was talking about last fall? When you actually read the fine print, you discover that it says that after compensating for the factors I mentioned, 25 percent couldn't be explained by anything other than sexism. But of course it was reported as women making 77 cents for every dollar men earned, as if the choices women made for themselves had nothing to do with the difference.
But I digress.
African-Americans of both sexes have lower life expectancies that whites, African-Americans are more likely to be victims of violence than whites, African-Americans are underrepresented in higher education, African-American men are many more times likely to be imprisoned than white men. Etc, etc, etc.
So you can stick your whole blog entry where the sun don't shine because that sort of crap may go down well with the women's studies set, but it doesn't stand up to the light of day.
March 25, 2008 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow what a load of crap. Care to share the exact figures?
March 25, 2008 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/23/us/23health.html?st=cse&sq=poor+study&scp=4
That should support the assertion.
March 25, 2008 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
How can someone in the US not beware of those race-based disparities in the delivery of health care?
The situation is so bad that the Institute of Medicine has a website that was developed to educate physician's to avoid ethnic bias in treatment.
African-Americans receive less than state of art care for coronary artery disease, cancer, etc. The disparities persist despite equal income levels are insurance plans.
Middle-class and upper-class African-Americans receive substandard health care.
March 26, 2008 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.ucc.org/about-us/firsts.html
Jeremiah Wright's church is a congregation of the United Church of Christ denomination. This is a page of United Church of Christ "Firsts" (although the UCC is an amalgamation of several churches as it has a very interesting history - check it out!)
See, especially, that in 1853 "Antoinette Brown is the first woman since New Testament times ordained as a Christian minister, and perhaps the first woman in history elected to serve a Christian congregation as pastor. At her ordination a friend, Methodist minister Luther Lee, defends "a woman's right to preach the Gospel." He quotes the New Testament: "There is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
March 25, 2008 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Way to go with that link!
March 25, 2008 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's the line that shows me that you totally underestimate the burden carried by a black man:
"Blacks once they get the job go to lunch and drinks with the guys, are tied into the decision process."
I'm not defending Wright's comments about Hillary, or in any way denying the burdens which women carry in the workplace, but it's really naive to act like black men are immediately accepted into the power structure in business. There aren't a lot of women OR black guys out at the exclusive country clubs playing business golf.
March 25, 2008 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Word.
Not as if this tit-for-tat nonsense means anything anyway.
March 25, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps not at the top level, but in the typical low level office setting, yes.
March 26, 2008 3:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let me withdraw that "perhaps" to make the point more exact and clearer.
March 26, 2008 3:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, did I miss something, or did he fail to even mention Hillary? What's with that?
March 26, 2008 9:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't support Hillary, but every misogynist attack from any source hurts me. Every racist one does too. But one doesn't excuse the other--both are disgusting.
Hating this.
March 26, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
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