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Disloyal Democrat: Hillary Clinton picks John McCain over Barack Obama

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Hillary Clinton:

I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I
know that Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience that he will
bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in
2002.

Video here.

Hillary Clinton's embrace of McCain is outrageous.

Yes, this is the same John McCain who is the biggest cheerleader for the war in Iraq and is the architect of the surge.

This
is the same John McCain who admits he doesn't know know a thing about
economics and proves it with his tired-old right wing rhetoric.

This is the same John McCain who gladly embraces an anti-Catholic pastor in the pursuit of votes from evangelical extremists.

And Hillary Clinton thinks John McCain is better suited to the presidency than Barack Obama.


Comments (45)

Hillary is as free as any other American to endorse the candidate of her choice. And is her choice so surprising? She's a hawkish candidate who has yet to find a neo-con rationale for war that she can't vote for. McCain is a hawkish candidate who has yet to find a neo-con rationale for war that he can't vote for. They both find it easy to blow with the winds of polling data. But theirs is a forbidden love ...

Video from Maddow/Olbermann link

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/3/203910/3644/635/468212

So let's get this straight. Hillary and McCain have years of experience and Obama has a speech he gave in 2002? But Hillary and McCain have the experience of starting and supporting an insane war and Obama has a speech that opposed that insane war. The very experience of which Hillary speaks is enough to convince me that she and McCain have lots of the wrong experience. I'm no great fan of Obama. He's far too much in league with the powerful and monied interests. But at least he doesn't have the experience of Hillary and McCain, which is the experience of supporting the terrible.

You said you are not a great fan of Obama. I was wondering if you have gotten a chance to read the article he wrote in Foreign Affairs Magazine back in July? It is a wonderful read. I really think this is the approach we need to take if we are to restore our reputation in the world. Give it a look:
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070701faessay86401/barack-obama/renewing-american-leadership.html

McCain has come out for private accounts.
This mechanism will allow the financial types to take a fee out of each person's social security transactions. They will invent new and better accounts and trade the public's assets ad infinitum in a manner quite similar to getting their hands on the mortgage industry.
After they take their cut and their fees out of all social security transactions it will also inevitably occur that they have hyped certain assets or acount types and a large per centage of Americans will lose significant chunks of their retirement monies.
This outcome is written in stone. The presumed worth of private accounts is premised on the stock market always increasing in value. At it's base it has the same premise as that housing values will never suffer reversals. Creating private accounts will hugely decrease at various times the total asset value under management and the security feature now embodied in social security.
If McCain has a shred of integrity he will not trade aging and elderly American's retirement monies and security to attract the Wall Street votes and financial backing.
He stands for nothing if he perseveres in calling for privatized social security accounts.
cognitorex

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OK...this is just stupid. Clearly she was making the argument that she has experience to counter McCain and Obama does not. You are just being silly here to say she is choosing McCain over Obama, and you probably know it.

She has been making this comment all over the place, and here is a representative example (from the other hyperventilating dishonest post on this topic here):

“I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say,” she said. “He’s never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002.”

But let's all pretend she endorsed McCain and then bitch about how awful it is that she did that.

RS -

Watch the video - she did in fact tacitly endorse McCain - by including him in the '6-ring-red- phone-club' while excluding Obama. No pretending - except her feigning being a Democrat.

She would endorse anyone who is not now currently handing her arse to her. These are her loyalties -self, first and foremost.

Are we doing a running tally of all the clips McKZ can paste into his adds at no cost to his campaign?

Hil - run w/ McKZ - or pull a Lieberman indie when you lose - as that's where you're clearly headed.

If she thinks her resume compares to McCains then she is more delusional than we thought. He would beat her like a drum. Our choice is Obama or McCain. Hillary would loose even some blue states because she has packaged herself arguing that McCains greatest strength is the most important qualification.

But that's NOT how she said it THIS time. She basically compared the three remaining valid candidates and ranked a fellow Democrat below the Republican opponent.

Wouldn't HRC fans be pissed off if Obama said something like:

I think I bring a certain amount of elected experience (11 years) to the White House, John McCain brings a certain amount of elected experience (28 years).

Hillary brings her husband's experiecnce.

Rachel Maddow has been VERY careful to be neutral or even slightly pro-Hillary until last night's Countdown with Keith Olbermann where she nailed Hillary's statement.

"that's what you say when you want to be John McCain's Vice Presidential choice".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-4mJLqW4Y4

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ricosuave said:

OK...this is just stupid. Clearly she was making the argument that she has experience to counter McCain and Obama does not. You are just being silly here to say she is choosing McCain over Obama, and you probably know it.

She has been making this comment all over the place, and here is a representative example (from the other hyperventilating dishonest post on this topic here):

“I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say,” she said. “He’s never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002.”

But let's all pretend she endorsed McCain and then bitch about how awful it is that she did that.

Frankly, it doesn't matter whether people call it an endorsement, or "chooing McCain," or whatever they want. Because the fact still remains that clear meaning is that only she and McCain have enough experience to be President and Obama does not. That she makes that statement under the cover of what McCain himself might say is irrelevant.

Shame on you, Hillary Clinton!

She wasnt endorsing McCain, but she certainly made a statement that reflected sarcasm without the wit. She just appears bitter.

I remember back in the 90's when I would defend the Clinton's. I guess I am older and wiser now, and I am seeing them for who they really are. As a life-long democrat, it has been really sad and disappointing to witness this. It just isnt what I expected to happen after 7 years of Bush, and I am angry that the Clintons have decided to go down this path.

So this means that by Clinton's logic John McCain should be the next POTUS, right?

That is the only way to read this. She argues that experience is the most imprtant qualification and McCain has the most. She is just plain blind to the implications of the arguments she is making. Only problem is that some of us are blind to it as well. Rush Limbaugh is not blind to it though that is why he is urging his listeners to vote for Sen Clinton. He knows her narative is a looser against McCain.

I don't know, Egg. I think maybe she still thinks she should be POTUS and CIC and that Bill Clinton should be FHOTUS.

It's really nice to see an ostensibly grown man with the maturity of a school boy. You are a towering giant of intellect.

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This is ridiculous. McCain and Hillary get to site a lifetime of experience, and Obama does not?

She went to cocktail parties as First Lady. That so many democrats are buying this experience argument is beyond me. Totally beyond me. She's done practically nothing on her own, and totally nothing without the Clinton name. What progressive cause did she fight for effectively against political will, and win? Not one. Caving to Republicans, time and time again. Like Bill did, time and time again. If she pulls this out today (and I think she will), we will have validated for the Clintons every wrong choice they ever made. And they will make them the same way, again. We'll get the candidate we deserve.

From your lips to God's ears.

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Thank you for this fantastic article. This is what Hillary has destroyed. I want to cry.

Frankly, Obama should have done his job in defining his opponent and not letting her define him. He gambled that we were already better than we were. He should have realized that it was going to take more time to get us there. It was his tragic mistake. But either Hillary or McCain will prove to be tragic mistakes of even bigger proportions.

Maybe I'm cynical this morning. The polls are devastating from the last few days. Maybe Obama is right and I'm wrong.

I'm hoping......

I think he's a cheap hustler who played you like a violin. But what do I know? Let's let Texas decide. He can beat her there if people buy his argument that he's the one to pick up that phone. Or he can beat her there if his ground organization overpowers hers. He can beat her if his base turns out and hers doesn't. He has a lot of ways to win. Never lose hope. Feelings of hopelessness make you an easy mark. Don't they?

Marketing techniques have made you a mark for life. Are you ready to roll up your sleeves and get to work on some solutions? I think it's time to be honest with the American people.

Have you taken me to raise, Egg?

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"He gambled that we were already better than we were. He should have realized that it was going to take more time to get us there."

Amen.

Our politics has gotten so toxic that even among our fellow Democrats the default response to disagreement is to line up on either side, dig in and lob absolutist mortar shells across no man's land.

The guy with the courage and vision to venture across the divide doesn't have a chance.

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Do you who are accusing Hillary Clinton of endorsing McCain actually believe that? She was obviously pointing out Obama's problem in going up against McCain in the general election.

As for Hillary destroying anything, do try to keep a little perspective. If you doubt that both Hillary and Bill Clinton will campaign full force for Obama, should he be the nominee, then you know nothing of their long history of dedication to the Democratic party. I have lived through so many elections and the one thing I know is that campaign rhetoric about the so-called differences between same party candidates quickly disappears as soon as the balloons go up at the convention. After that, it will all be about the differences between the parties.

I started working for the Clintons in '92. And you?

Since then, how many Democratic presidents have you had the pleasure of watching be sworn in?

Did I miss one?

So why do you want us to back another loser? We watched Gore piss 2000 away by rolling his eyes, prudishly distancing himself from Bill Clinton, forgetting to campaign in Tennessee and standing like a cow staring at a new gate while they took Florida away. Then we watched Kerry flip-flop, get Swift-boated and forget to GOTV in Ohio. And Kerry was running against the most impeachable President in American history. Bill Clinton had a by-pass, got out of the hospital and hit the campaign trail for that loser. What I would like to hear from one of you Clinton haters is exactly what the Clintons did that harmed you personally. Personally. As in harmed you the individual, not just your notion of some greater cause or good to which they haven't been true enough to suit you.

Of the two remaining candedates in the Democratic primary Sen Clinton is the loser. She has pproved this by losing nominating contests at a rate of 2:1. Rightly or wrongly people hate her and a plurality will never vote for her.

I started working for Democratic candidates in 1956, when Stevenson ran against Eisenhower. We won NC, SC, GA, AL, MS, ARK, and MO. I was 17 and an intellectual. I loved Stevenson and couldn't figure out why no one else I knew, including my parents, got it. They were working class Dems and voted for Stevenson anyway.

Personally? Personally, I think Bill did a pretty good job of burning up whatever political capital we'd worked to build up - in defense of his own presidency. Are you suggesting that he spent political capital on issues that I might consider important? Considering your apparent omniscience, Billy, which issues of importance to me, that Bill defended or promoted, might you deign to outline here?

I'll grant you that I still much prefer the 90's to everything that's happened since, but that's not saying much, is it? Considering what's happened. Or has it not been all that different for you and yours? It certainly has been for me and mine, but it's not as if the contrast means we've been entirely reduced to a quivering mass of spineless sycophants awaiting the return of some Clinton to rescue us from our sorry state. And yet, it's you who accuse me of drinking the Kool-Aid. Whatever. Step aside. We've got work to do before our country turns into the laughingstock you think it's already become.

Actually, I've never accused anyone of being delusional or drinking Kool-Aid.

The step aside meme is the one that got you where you are today.

I don't think I saw anything in your post about how you suffered personally under the Clintons. As for me suffering during the last 8 years, I think I've said already that my income went up, my taxes went down, and I haven't been personally harmed by the Bush administration.

Since we have the personal harm issue out of the way, maybe we can talk about the Democratic values you think the Clintons have betrayed.

Did you help them fight back against the most vicious political and personal attacks in the history of American politics, attacks aimed not just at the Clintons, but attacks aimed at destroying the Democratic Party? You weren't part of those attacks, were you?

Christ, I worked for Gore, too, you self-righteous prick.

That's an example of the personal harm you suffered? You worked for Gore? You have my sympathy.

I am sure she does not see it as endorsing McCain. She thinks that she is making an argument for her own campaign. The reason she believes this is that she has bought her own BS. She thinks her experience trumps McCain's. This is delusional. If the Democratic nominee makes this election about experience then they LOSE. Sen Obama can win by running the same campaign in the general that he has run in the primary.

That's a good point, Larry. The odd thing is that I noticed yesterday that one of the Presidential polls in Texas has her within 4 pts of McCain. I wonder if the phone ad isn't working for her in unexpected ways. She does seem more vital and together as a person than McCain. Maybe she can win that CIC thing, not in any kind of sit down and list I did this or that kind of way, but just in the feeling she gives people. The hair. The glasses. The voice. I think she'll kick McCain's ass with the moms. I just had one additional thought. I wish she would reach out to Cindy Sheehan. Not politically, maybe. Just as a person.

Another point for the fall is that if things go bad in Iraq McCain is toast, and I think that is at the very least as likely as not.

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Doesn't everyone who is alive bring a lifetime experience to anything they do?

I'd happily vote for Clinton over McCain, but I would have thought even Clinton supporters might see this as a nice gift to the McCain camp should she lose.

I'd have to assume the Clinton supporters are correct and she is just saying she would be a better opponent to McCain, but it was, at a minimum, stated awkwardly.

Elegantly put. My own guess is that, even though she wasn't saying it, she does believe McCain would make a better CIC, although she is night and day from him on social issues. I think what is truly revealed here and in her other ads is that she has no interest in perserving her own ability to campaign for Obama. Obviously, he would have to use someone who says he is inexperienced and unprepared very sparingly and only in special situations on the campaign trail.

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Hillary is out of control, she is on a vendetta, she is so pissed that she isn't winning this thing that she is trying to take down Obama with her so he can't win. Her campaign is running on spite now, and we have to take her down. She is only helping McCain now, and everyone knows it, this is why Limbaugh is telling his supporters to vote for her in Texas today, to keep her in the race to hurt the Democrats.

My full commentary on the subject:

http://thepersonalispolitical.tumblr.com/post/27938741

How should we take her down?

The democratic and Democratic way. By voting for her oponent. It has worked well in 24 of the 35 contests held so far. She has no chance of wining the nomination. All a vote for Hillary does at this point is delay the inevitable. That could be a pluss for the democrats if she were running a civil campeign. We swould be dominating the news and drowning out McCain. But she is not. She is making scurrulous lying attacs on Sen Obama in a way that only serves to help McCain in the fall. For that reason I am hoping she loses decisively in todays contests.

I'll get right on it. Sending this down to friends and family in Texas right now. Great news! Obama has a VICTORY RALLY scheduled for San Antonio tonight. His internal polls must tell him he has it in the bag. Hillary is going to be in Ohio.

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She still hopes to take the nomination in 2008, but if she does not, she is making arguments to weaken Obama enough so that McCain beats him in 2008 so she can run against McCain in 2012. She knows she could not run against an incumbent Obama in 2012, and she can't wait until 2016. So if she can't win the nomination in 2008 she wants to make sure she has a chance to run on 2012 again incumbent President McCain.

I just don't think she's that cynical.

Time will tell. I hope you ar right but suspect you are not.

My dream is that if he wins Texas, Bill Clinton will be among the 50 super delegates that endorse him, and Hillary will make it 51.

On one thing, she is absolutely right -- she and John McCain would each bring a lifetime of experience to the White House -- and now is our opportunity to reject the kind of lifetime experience that Hillary Clinton and John McCain would bring to the White House.

She is wrong about Obama, though. She mistakes an improbable life story full of rich experiences, public service, brilliant intellect, even more brilliant oratory, seemingly excellent judgment, tremendous executive skills (as exemplified in this political campaign) and cool and calm under intense pressure, for "a speech in 2002" -- one that happened to concern the most important issue of the last 8 years, and one that she blew completely.

If Obama went negative, he could decimate Hillary with slime and innuendo much worse than she has available to use against him. But he doesn't do it, while she seems to revel in it. When you have no mathematical chance of winning, and you adopt a deeply negative tone to retain the potential to upset the popular will, as expressed in the candidate who ends the primary season holding the majority of pledged delegates, you forfeit your right to be treated with respect. And as much as I hate to say it, I think Obama needs to take the gloves off, open up to the press, firmly correct the false innuendo, and remind people why Hillary and McCain represents the past -- and a corrosive, bitter past at that -and he represents the future. Firm, slightly negative, but with a positive gloss. He needs to show that he can fight, too. It would help if he does well tonight in Texas, but regardless of the outcome, this shit has to stop.

My wife, a virulent Hillary supporter, thinks that I am just a thin skinned Obamaton who can't take all the mean things HC is saying about him, and scoffs at any notion that, for the sake of the party and the general election, that Hillary, being the candidate with substantially fewer pledged delegates and no mathematical chance of evening up, much less winning, might actually want to consider the best interests of the party over teh more corrosive effects of continuing her search for the holy grail (one that she has little or no chance of getting). And there's no reason to think Hillary and Bill and Mark Penn and their cadre of DLC insiders will see it any differently.

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