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Destroy Hillary Now - My March 5th Rant

We often have heard how hard Obama will be hit by the Repubs if he becomes the Dem nominee, but we don't hear that much about how hard Hillary will be hit. McCain is ripe for some abuse himself but that won't stop him or his surrogates from referencing every stumbling block Bill and Hill have ever faced ad nauseum. By the time the GOP is finished rehashing Whitewater and Lewinsky, half of  the Democratic Party will be second guessing having Hillary as our candidate. By the time the GOP is finished crucifying Bill for his influence peddling in Eurasian oil dictatorships and Hillary's tax returns the contest will be over. We could only pray for a President Nader.
 It is time for Obama to show he can destroy Hillary. She has to be torn asunder for the good of our country, and arguably, the world. You read people like Josh mention Obama needing to hit back strong, but not too hard or too dirty. They don't seem to care as much about how hard the Clinton machine hits. They long for the blood.  When it gets right down to it, they don't respect anything else but savagery. They are no different than a crowd in the Coliseum. They talk a good game about righteous ideals but ultimately couldn't care less. I agree with them now. If he can't crush her he isn't worthy of the nomination. He should give her the Kitchen Sink treatment. Make sure a day doesn't come where HRC doesn't hear about Norman Hsu, chinese influence peddling, Whitewater, Lewinsky, Impeachment, Travelgate ad infinitum. If he doesn't do it now, we are sure to hear it a few months from now. Make sure the next tears we see from Hillary are attached to a concession speech. If Obama can't deal with a dirty scumbag like HRC how could he heal our nation's wounds anyway(if you believe he could do that)?

Obama - its time to man up. Bring the carnage or die.


Comments (62)

Hallelujah!

You are absolutely right! But he needs to do it without being attached to the message - he needs to stay above the fray.

They are no different than a crowd in the Coliseum

TM must mean "We", not just they.

RichGee - I disagree. Obama needs to be the one to do the tearing asunder. Blood dripping from his chin. This is the Coliseum and we want blood. Hard earned death match.

Where I do agree is that he needs to pick his fights carefully and not use muck for muck's sake.

Regardless, the jugular needs to be severed.


Excellent, it's "When Good Pets Go Bad" day at TPM.

I enjoy all the bloodletting imagery we have here - a good murderous frenzy is cleansing for the pure spirit. Perhaps go watch "Queen Margot" to better get in the mood. But just remember, it's all good fun until someone puts an eye out.

It's so incredibly true that the GOP would love to rehash all the scandals of Clinton past - particularly since she has run on her 35 years of experience. It's essentially an open invitation to it.

It's tricky though. I don't think he can go all out kitchen sink, as least not him personally. Rich is right - he does need to stay above the fray, or it risks destroying the positive message he's built.

Should be an interesting few weeks.

Lest she pull another "Shame on you, Barack Obama" line. Voters who do not know him, but know how Hillary got knocked around in the 90's will not give Obama the benefit of the doubt. Even if everything he says is true.

Look, she cries bias, and every media outlet is trying to trip over themselves to make it appear not so.

It is a horrible revisitation that brought us Fox "fair and balanced" news.

I don't know how he gets out of this with his ethics and integrity in tact.
He has this quote (sorry) I don't have it exact but it went along the lines of
"People are sick of hearing why we have to be divided, and why we have to be afraid of each other, and why we have to live in a politics of FEAR all of the time. People are sick and tired of it."

I don't know how he gets kitchen sink on her A$$. He has the double edged sword to be sure.

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Abso-friggin-lutely! I sent an email to Axelrod earlier today:

Dear Mr. Axelrod,

I am a contributor and supporter of Senator Obama. I congratulate you on what has so far been as brilliant campaign. However...

I understand why you don't want to get down in the gutter with the Clintons. But the fact is that they have been able to control the news cycle - and the news media - for the past 2 weeks with negative attacks. The result became clear last night in Ohio and Texas.

Yes, you maintain a decent delegate lead. Yes, your message and method on pursuing a new, positive politics are integrated and crucial to maintain. But you are not immune from politics itself. You and other surrogates must go after the Clintons on several fronts.

First, and most important - why is Hillary Clinton the only major Democratic candidate for President in memory who has refused to release her tax returns? What is she hiding? Why has she still not released her White House records after having repeatedly promised to do so? Where are they? What is she hiding?

Second - exactly what 35 years of experience is she talking about? First lady of Arkansas for 12 years, first lady of the U.S. for 8 years, partner in the Rose Law firm - a job she won because she was the wife of the Governor? A Director of Wall Mart - also because she was Mrs. Bill Clinton. Would anyone know who Hillary Rodham even was if she wasn't married to Bill Clinton? Could she run credibly for anything without the fact that her husband is Bill Clinton? Her one formal assignment in the White House was to lead their health care reform effort - an unmitigated disaster.

Finally, she has slammed Senator Obama because of his relationship with Tony Rezko. What about her relationship with Norman Hsu? How about Johnny Chung? How about Charlie Trie?

One final point that should be raised with the voters - especially in Pennsylvania. Mark Penn is the CEO of Burson-Marsteller, the premier union-busting PR firm in the United States. Has there ever before been a professional union buster at the very top of a Democratic Presidential campaign in modern history?

I will contribute again to Senator Obama. My support has not wavered. But before I do I want to see some old fashioned hardball - not of the Chris Matthews spittle spewing variety, or of the Clinton we-have-to-destroy-the-Party- to-save-it type, but simply insisting that the Clintons be held to account.

Excellent Organizer721!

How is it I hear Rezko but no mention of actual convicted felons the Clintons have relations with? Axelrod may be in a little over his head.

That's an excellent letter.

Out of curiosity - where did you send it to? There's basically "press" and "non-press" on his website contact page.

I'd like to send a similar letter.. memes have a way of being stronger when multiple people are saying them :)

Nice letter - well said.

I'd love for them to make Mark Penn and his anti-union work part of their pushback.

Here! Here! Let the halls ring. Obama says it takes us, lets prove it.

If I remember correctly - there used to be this thing called a flash mob.

Obama needs to use it. We need to use it.

I disagree. I'm an Obama supporter and feel he can use the tone of his campaign to an advantage if he adds some religious theme. I go into more detail in my post at:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/barack-obama-is-a-good-christi.php

Good line to take, but too much preaching triggers the cult meme.

A combination might work out.
Mix up that stump speech!

Rent 60 second commercial slots and use that oratory skill. We need a set of elevator speeches that do some hard hitting.

I don't think it really matters whether he "stays above the fray" or not. I think what really matters is how the arguments are made. Was Whitewater really a scam that people went to jail over? Did Norman Hsu really raise that money for the Clintons? Lewinsky isn't a bad dream we all had. She brought up her 35 yrs of experience. Anything she did from age 25 on is fair game. Its not like he'd need to make up any swiftboat thing. The worst part about all of the dirt out there on the Clintons is that it is all true.

I don't see him losing anything by going all out. He has the delegate lead. The longer she lingers the more opportunity there is for jackasses like Goolsbee. He needs to put her down and fixate on McSame. The longer he waits to put her to bed the worse it is for him.

She has now upped the ante to a "lifetime" so it's all fair game now, all the way back to canvassing for Goldwater as a kid. Let it rip.

I fail to see what Lewinsky does to undermine Hillary. Her fault, both Bill's unfaithfulness and the media frenzy?

But be careful what you poke into - so far everyone's assumed it's St. Barack the Pure, but as Hookergate and Larry Flynt's pocketbook has shown, there's a treasure trove of infidelity and tawdry sex acts to be had in Washington. You can only prove someone unfaithful - you can't prove them faithful. As Gary Hart is the poster child for elevated expectations, let's not go down that road again.

It would seem that the Obama camp agrees with me.

Obama has seen that Clinton scorns his campaign's insistence that she simply can't win, and that to win, he'll need to shove her off the stage.

``We have not hesitated to draw distinctions between the candidates and we'll continue to do that," said Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod. "If Sen. Clinton wants to take the debate to various places, we'll join that debate. We'll do it on our terms and in our own way, but if she wants to make issues like ethics and disclosure and law firms and real estate deals and all that stuff issues, as I've said before, I don't know why they'd want to go there, but I guess that's where they'll take the race.''

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/8843.html

I don't know why Hillary would be so stupid as to bring up shady real estate deals. Does she really think her "35 Years of Experience" wouldn't hit her hard when brought up? Last time I checked, Billary wasn't "vetted" they were publicly destroyed and the Democratic Party was in ruins by the time it was over.

It's all gone down the memory hole here in the United States of Amnesia. It's time for Axelrod et al to take us back to 1999 and it sounds like they're ready to do it.

On Lewsinky, I remember when this was going on and I was pretty upset about DeLay and company going after Clinton like they did, but this was primarily because I didn't think that a person's sexual affairs are anyone's business but their own. However, as time has gone on my perspective has changed. Bill Clinton's actions cost his party and the nation dearly. Not only did his indiscretions leave him vulnerable to the ensuing attack, but he wasted a perfectly good opportunity to own up to it and end it all. His crime, perjury, was a choice he made.

I think many on the left still feel defensive about the attack that came from the right because it was so offensive and personal, but the time has come to realize that Bubba made the mess and we all paid the price. He doesn't deserve to be defended for this reason.

We all paid dearly for his BJ. Thousands of Americans died because of it. Would Iraq and 9-11 occurred with Gore in office? We will never know.

Boy! That's one powerful blowjob Monica!

You make the Neocons proud! Everything is Bill Clinton's fault. And people wonder why I'm so hard on Obama supporters!

Inhinged.

Damn! Un-hinged...that should have said.

Yes, I agree, Barack should attack Hillary by bringing up Monica. That should go over quite nicely.

Organizer721, YOU ROCK!


"McSame". Good one TM!
I'm sure it will be "borrowed" alot in days to come.

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The media is to blame, because things only appear bad because the media is eating up the Hillary spin like she is dropping pez out of her ass. In reality she still has no chance, and her win was not meaningful. I just hope the media will wake up and start vetting HER, because unlike Obama, she actually does have big questions that remain unanswered. My full post-election breakdown:

http://thepersonalispolitical.tumblr.com/post/28045053

I agree with your media assertion. Mark Penn just blatantly goes around saying "Once the media has vetted Obama" WTF? Now the media is Hillary's investigation team? I have no problem with the media digging up dirt on anyone but trying to get the media to do their bidding is a neat Jedi mind trick that has appeared to work. Let's remember that Jedi mind tricks only work on the weak minded.

Thinking she has no chance is a mistake. She has little chance of overcoming Obama's pledged delegate lead but a severe turn in public opinion brought on by a MSM propaganda blitzkrieg like we've seen the past week would definitely put the decision in the hands of super-delegates and other political whores who love their Clinton pimps.

Hillary has a big target on her back. Its time Obama put his foot through it. Its time to ask how many interns Bill Clinton will sexually exploit this time he's in the White House. Its time to ask how many dictators he will proclaim to be champions of democracy for millions in kickbacks from his Canuk oil buddies. I wonder what his oil buddy's relationship is with Harper (the canuk PM). Let me see what I can dig up.

TM

I did a little research and Canuk politics is very different from our own. Harper's entire campaign spent $148,000. Not a lot of money to follow. I still wonder Clinton's Giustra dealings could be behind that NAFTA memo.


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What about those final-hour pardons by Bill Clinton including Marc Rich and Hillary's brother? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1184118.stm#top
gives the cast of characters in a BBC article from 2001. Or just Google "Bill Clinton Pardons" and take your pick.

Yep. Here are a few goodies:

1. Clintons are terrorist sympathizers --

On August 11, 1999, Clinton commuted the sentences of 16 members of FALN, a violent Puerto Rican nationalist group that set off 120 bombs in the United States mostly in New York City and Chicago, convicted for conspiracies to commit robbery, bomb-making, and sedition, as well as for firearms and explosives violations.

But wait it gets better! Bush probably took lesson from HRC's husband:

President Clinton cited executive privilege for his refusal to turn over some documents to Congress related to his decision to offer clemency to members of the FALN terrorist group.

Of course, HRC herself has "a lifetime of experience" with pardons:

In March 2000, Bill Clinton pardoned Edgar and Vonna Jo Gregory, owners of the carnival company United Shows International, for charges of bank fraud from a 1982 conviction (the couple were already out of jail, but the prior conviction prevented them from doing business transactions in certain states). First Lady Hillary Clinton's youngest brother, Tony Rodham, was an acquaintance of the Gregorys, and had lobbied Clinton on their behalf. In October 2006, the group Judicial Watch filed a request with the U.S. Justice Department for an investigation, alleging that Rodham had received $107,000 from the Gregorys for the pardons, in the form of loans that were never repaid, as part of a quid pro quo scheme.
Not only did she marry a philanderer but her brother has ties to criminals that Bill later pardoned. And we thought the current Administration was good? They are, but the warm up act wasn't bad either.

The most notorious case was Marc Rich (and HRC has a direct tie-in)

Marc Rich, a fugitive, was pardoned of tax evasion, after clemency pleas from Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, among many other international luminaries. He was required to pay a $100 million dollar fine and waive any use of the pardon as a defense against any future civil charges that were filed against him in the same case. Critics complained that Denise Rich, his former wife, had made substantial donations to the Clinton library and to Mrs. Clinton's senate campaign. Emails uncovered during the course of the investigation revealed that her final donation was provided a year before Scooter Libby requested that she approach Clinton for a pardon. According to Paul Volcker's independent investigation of Iraqi Oil-for-Food kickback schemes, Marc Rich was a middleman for several suspect Iraqi oil deals involving over 4 million barrels of oil.
(my emphasis added)

They even had a Scooter Libby tie-in. Precious. Birds of a feather, as it were. I guess that's a good start. After eight years of Clinton "experience" I've decided I don't want to spend another four years trying to explain their "errors in judgment." Again.

I hadn't heard the details of Hillary's brother's involvement in that pardon trash.

Obama should call Hillary and Bill "pardonistas" LOL

I'll never vote for
Obama and I ALWAYS VOTE>
So good luck with that.
If he is the nominee he will lose.

Deep. Nice to see racist social workers getting involved!

you are the racist! your comment betrays you!

Got me again! Damn you .......you .....you....slickster!

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Quote: "I'll never vote for
Obama and I ALWAYS VOTE>
So good luck with that.
If he is the nominee he will lose."

Wow. You sure seem to think you hold a lot of power!

You underestimate the racist social worker vote.

It's a common mistake.. and nit just because it's completely irrelevant.

It's a common mistake.. and not just because it's irrelevant.

why do you assume it's about race you racist?

it will be so much fun to watch you guys lose! worth a possible McCain win to this life long Democrat!

Well, I tried to post this somewhere else, but
TPM wouldn't accept my password (AGAIN) and I didn't want to take the time to go back to the place that I originally tried to post it, so here goes:

Has anyone noticed that there has not been one single word about the Iraq war lately on the news?

All we hear is "The surge is working," so why am I getting info on the internet that 40 people got blown up one day; 100 people another day.

It is criminal that we get no real news out of Iraq!

The idea that the "Surge is working" is coming from generals. Why don't I believe it?

What is the matter with TPM? Does it have a fever? Does it not give a shit about its posters?

I hae sent dozens of emails and I don't get a response. I am ready to give up, because it is just too damn much work!

Thankfully, Juan Cole remains ever vigilant.

The News Hour with Jim Lehrer does a little bit, but after 9-11 they watered down their coverage of everything severely. MSM and people like Josh aren't going to talk about Iraq in detail.
Iraq is nothing new. Go look up what Mark Twain said about the US in the Philippines and you'll see that nothing has changed in 100yrs.
Good luck getting your countrymen to give a damn about anything while they are still well fed.

C'Ville,

Can't remeber who taught me this, but when you type in your password and it says it's invalid or something like that...just click send again and it goes through. Don't need to bother retyping it.

It's a pain, yes, but that's at least one work around.

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You have to know in -- was it January, 1999 -- Hillary Clinton looked her husband in the eye and asked if any of these allegations about Monica Lewinsky were true. He said no. She believed him.

After 25+ years of marriage and a string of infidelities. She believed him.

She took George Bush "at his word" that he wouldn't take us to war.

That's the judgment we want from Day One?

All the convoluted connections on the pardons -- I'd forgotten all of that. And now Bill has a billion dollar foundation and a library that rakes in cash. No conflicts of interest? Give me a break.

Expect the tax returns to be sanitized. Let's demand them, but stop thumping our chests. They'll be able to say, "see we told you we were clean." You think they're stupid?

Obama has to start connecting the dots. The dots all connect back to Mark Penn. Mark Penn's company needs to get into the narrative. Since guilt by association is so important to the Clintons, let's do the same.

If only Obama's people would get on the bus.

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Right you are, 57andFemale! Hillary does not represent the kind of feminism I thought I was working for the last 40 years! At 65 I cannot understand why "older" women remain so firmly in her demographic! What are they thinking? She is everything we were supposed to loath!

I hate the password thing too, it constantly does not work.

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Dudes! She kicked his a$$ last night even after he tried to buy the election in Ohio! Get over it. Your acting like whining, desperate Obama fans; you're throwing in the kitchen sink!

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It's because of loathing men like you that the women of this country have stood behind her. Obama's days are over; his fame has worn off; he's been tried, tested, and found wanting.

I hear a good, heart felt Fuck Yeah in the distance.

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Great column, and I have no qualms about him bringing up every bit of drama of the Clinton Years, and pressing her on
1. Tax Returns
2. First Lady Paper (after all, that 35 Years experience BS she's running on)

And, it's time he brought up the United States turning into a Banana Republic by allowing 2 families to control the Presidency.

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Yes, bring up all those past stories of the Clinton years. The 40 million dollars of taxpayer money that was spent to destroy them. It really worked so well the last time...wait, Bill Clinton left office with a 60% approval rating and Hillary was elected a US Senator. hmmm

If you are going to take off the gloves, you better find some new material. I don't think the tax returns are going to work either. I think most people in the country already know that they have made alot of money. All of those papers you want to see from their records, well..it may just show that she actually was involved. If I were her, I would find those and release them first.

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As a Hillary supporter, my response to this ugly post is “bring in on". Hillary is a fighter and I am sure she is more than ready for the negative campaigning coming her way and will use it against him. After all, the right-wing machine tried their best against her for years and failed. What will they do, threw the same old stuff? Lewinsky?? Whitewater?? Can they do it worse than Limbaugh and rest of the low-life in the republican party? No Way!
Hillary will have no problems disposing of an amateur like Obama by the time he PA primary is over.

Never underestimate the power of a question. The anger pinned to some shirt sleeves in this thread overlook some beautiful opportunities to ask some hard questions.

A simple time line of said experience might suffice to start the questioning. Should be easy to compile.

The blood will flow after that. The press will bow to any jedi. This is what they want - they are the pack to be unleashed. And I do not mean the hint of breast type - that stems from the utter baseness of entertainment and lack of anything else to talk about.

I am talking about Journalism. Josh? Do you only rake the muck that entertains (if it bleeds it leads?)? or is it hands off any real investigation to avoid taking sides?

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In your dreams "inyourfacepeaceseeker"!

Clinton has shown that she is not prepared to challenge Obama on the issues and wants to get down in the mud. My bet is that there is a lot more dirt to throw her way and I have no doubt that the past 8 years may be quite fertile.

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are you OBAMA folks actually republicans because in my opinion the democratic party has turned into the nastiest group i have even seen in my voting years. if it is just the younger generation who have joined into politics then go back to where you came from we were better off without you. you act like pathetic republicans not DEMOCRATS. we were always better than what this site has become.

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lets see now...the media keeps harping on the fact that Obama's base is white collar, college educated.I must say,that by the meanspirited,vile,juvenile comments I see posted on this website I finally must accept that the state of our education system is actually worse than I tought.You guys are frightening. Isn't your candidate running as "the unifier candidate"?
Gee, but Bush also said he was "a uniter,not a divider".I think Obama is uniting the lunatics.

You sure are an angry person. Are you sure you're not a Republican? Anyway, the sad fact is that Hillary acts like the big turnout that Obama has gotten will somehow come our for her and it's simply not true. When Obama is the nominee, those big states (NY, NJ, CA, OH, etc.) will be his along with some of the Red States he's won. Hillary would only unite the Republicans. Those McCain-haters would turn out in masse because there's one thing they can all agree upon with passion-they hate the Clintons. The RNC would jump for joy too if she was the nominee because they already have plenty of amunition and a big easily-tarnished target in her.

My comment was actually meant for a nasty comment by "STRAVU9," not this wonderful post.

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There are three problems with your proposal(at least):

1. It ignores the fact that the Clintons are great at making their attackers look crazy. Their opponents think they've got them beat, but the Clintons keep pulling out unexpected victories. You may not recall this, as so many of Obama supporters are so young, but one of the things that was regularly said about Bill Clinton is that he was blessed with the best enemies.
I don't think that these people started out crazy, I think that it was their hatred of the Clintons, and their inability to stop the Clintons, that drove them crazy.
Look at Ken Star, he started out as a constitutional scholar, someone who was seriously spoken of as a possible republican Supreme Court Justice appointment. Now, outside of conservative circles, he's considered a joke.

2. What makes you think that Obama will succeed where so many others have failed. How many peolple, smart peolple with significant resources, have tried to destroy the Clintons. He would have to come up with something new or look like he's rehashing the 90's. The period he claims he wants to leave behind as the politics of the past. Which is why he's left with the lame, release your taxes returns that aren't even required to be filed until April 15th.

3. If he succeeds, and wins by destroying the first woman with a legitimate shot at being president, how does win the general election. I submit to you that if he wins in the way you suggest, John MCCain will win 55-60% of white women. How does Obama put the democratic coalition back together again? He doesn't.

4. I know I said three, but I've got something else to say. Obama says he wants to be a unifier. His supporters say they believe he will be able to unify the country, not just the party, but the country. Obama himself, is still behaving in a manner could allow that to happen. But if he behaved in the manner you suggest, could he succeed in his stated mission of unity. Consider the effect of Obama treating Clinton the way Obama supporters treat Clinton supporters on these blogs. How united are we. And how would he unify the country. If he can't win the nomination, without the kind o attecks you suggest, imagine what will be required of him in the general election where his opponents really don't like him or agree with himfrom the start.

That sure is a scary scenario. It fills me with fear: maybe fear works? I'm afraid of the Clintons just reading it. Bill Clinton really showed his stuff in South Carolina didn't he. Worked well, right? You're argument is too full of holes to get into. But just because it's so easy: If the Clintons succeeded at wins by destroying the first African-American with a legitimate shot at being president, how does Hillary win the general election.

Such a wonderful post. (ignore my comment above-it was actually a comment to a comment above by stravu9). I should have read and commented on this post before putting up my own post:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/obamas-kitchen-sink-bathtub-st.php

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