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Clinton Win with Lower Delegate Count will Destroy Dem Party
I hate to put it quite such stark terms, but if the superdelegates give the nomination to Clinton despite Obama winning the pledged delegates, I'm afraid it will destroy the Democratic party.
Consider all the new voters that Obama has brought to the party. All the excitement and enthusiasm. Consider 1m+ individuals donating to his campaign. If after all that, Democratic leaders take the nomination away from him, I'm afraid it will destroy the party, perhaps for a generation. Especially if it's done on the back of weeks of attacks from our own side, followed by back-room arm twisting. That result will validate the Clinton campaign's scorched earth strategy. Frankly I'm not sure that I will stay in the party if that happens.
Comments (12)
An Obama win with Florida and Michigan excluded would be considered invalid by rather more.
If Obama wins on a plurality of all the delegates including the disqualified delegates and in the total popular vote he has a moral case. Otherwise I don't see one.
If a handful of insiders excluding millions of votes two states is fair then don't you dare claim that superdelegates are unfair. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
If a handful of insiders excluding millions of votes is fair then don't complain when the same set of rules turns out to let them be reinstated. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
March 19, 2008 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
You say "An Obama win with Florida and Michigan excluded would be considered invalid by rather more."
And, yet including FL and MI based on the original primaries would disenfranchise even more voters. 1.7 million voted, but based on a report by a Wharton professor about 2 million did not vote because they knew they wouldn't be counted.
March 19, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Come on. Can we please put this line of argument to rest? The Clinton and Obama campaigns agreed before the campaign began in earnest to exclude the FL and MI delegates. In fact I think Ickes was representing the Clinton campaign when the decision was made.
If the Clinton campaign errant assumption that things would be wrapped up on Super Tuesday had actually occurred, FL and MI wouldn't be a subject of discussion now. The agreement was to not campaign in either state, and most candidates actually removed their names from the MI ballot.
March 19, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
hallam, you say:
"An Obama win with Florida and Michigan excluded would be considered invalid by rather more."
Invalid? That line of thought didn't come about until Hillary started her tantrum over this. When, fearing a lose, she went back on her agreements. That's when, and only when, she decided that Florida and Michigan votes needed to count.
She can stop that now...
Fact checker:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/facts-fairness-and-fraud-histo.php#comments
The amazing thing is how she has gotten so many people to believe her story!
March 19, 2008 11:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
No it won't. Hillary will win the popular vote. Obama will concede and make a speech reminding us about Gore vs Bush and say it was the will of the people. He's a team player, a jr. senator and if he wants to have any place in the game that's how it will go down.
March 19, 2008 8:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not going to happen, but if it would that is an excellent comparison. Obama = Gore and Hillary = Bush. Stolen election (how can you validate a popular vote that includes caucuses?).
Sounds like you are channeling Hillary with that "if he wants to have any place in the game" crap. You've gotta give the lobbyists what they want if you want their money.
March 19, 2008 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hah, do you actually believe this?
March 19, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
yes. Watch the media. They're beginning to set it up now. The protection around Obama is being withdrawn in a myriad of ways. Here's an example.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/19/letterman-presents-barac_n_92367.html
They know he can't win so they are attempting to sway the electorate. They're hoping for a popular vote win now. The story line, whether true or fair, is that its the fair thing to do. All that matters is to sell it to enough of the Obama supporters and the masses. But its always possible he can pull out a win. I don't know what the supers will do then. Between a rock and a hard place. A candidate that won the nomination who can't win the general and if they take it away in a way they can't sell as "fair" the party breaks apart.
Or did you mean that he would support Hillary? He's a politician, of course he will.
March 19, 2008 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
And letterman making fun of politicians is prove of... what?
!!!
(This must be the new memo from Hillary's headquarters.)
March 19, 2008 11:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree completely Scott. I've been blogging about the super-delegates overturning the pledged delegate count. Hillary supporters seem to think it's an acceptable outcome based on her electability. I think it would have disasterous results not only the general election, but on the party for years to come. I changed from Independent to Democrat because of Obama.
March 19, 2008 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
What if he's the nominee and loses the election? What would do then?
This is wide open and anything can happen (remember Rev Wright). I think your post is incendiary, so I'm not sure how much you care for a united party.
March 19, 2008 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
What if... What if... What if...
The only fact that matters is the big business donor wing of the democratic party has already purchased their candidate.
The fix is in.
Of course the super delegates will overturn the will of the voters if Obama has more votes & delegates.
They have to award the nomination to Hillary Clinton.
It is her turn so stop all of this fussing.
The Obama campaign was run so these big money interests could gauge public opinion and take measures identify its supporters and donors so they can contain it.
What we will most likely see is a fractured democratic party so McCain can win and the formation of a third party so future expenditures can be limited to insuring that they only need 40% of the vote to win in the future.
March 19, 2008 10:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
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