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An Open Letter to Hillary: Don't Quit!
Dear Hillary,
I need you to win this. All women need you to win this. We need to be able to point to you when men (and foolish women) try to bully us into giving up a dream that we have sought and worked hard for. We need to be able to say, "See! She was pressured, cajoled, and ridiculed to try to get her to get out of the way of a man who is not much further ahead in many respects, but she didn't back down, and she overcame the naysayers. That means I can do it, too." We need our daughters to know they can achieve anything, and it's time a woman took the seat in the Oval Office.
Sexism is still rampant in this country, in sneaky ways. Leahy telling you to step down is a prime example. Why not say the same thing to Obama? He hasn't even won the most important states. He's young and less experienced, and could be a prominent force for years in the US Senate (which we know you helped him win). So why not Obama step down? Because he's a man, and it's OK for men to be harsh like he was to you in the first and subsequent debates. When you struck back, you were criticized. Women aren't supposed to do those things. Well, it's time we change that belief system.
You are a fighter, and we will need a serious fighter to beat the Republicans. We need you to win this, for women, for our country, and for the future.





Comments (76)
Obvious answer: He's winning in every measurable sense.
March 28, 2008 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's ahead but he's not won anything yet.
March 28, 2008 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
If that verbage is soothing to your soul, that's fine. The logic still applies. Why not say the same thing to Obama? Because he's ahead in every measurable sense. Feel better now?
March 28, 2008 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's kind of obvious you didn't get an A in your logic class.
March 28, 2008 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Lalo, you support sexism that says women have to vote for other women? Is that what you are saying.
Gosh I am so proud of where the women's movement has brought you all to.
March 28, 2008 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
HAH! You know what's funny? I actually did get an A in logic! So, if what you really objected to was my logic then why did you take issue with semantics? But what logic would someone request that the front-runner in any contest drop out?
March 28, 2008 9:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lalo, I teach logic at the university level, and though I don't fancy myself a master of the art, I know enough to refrain from accusing others of baseless illogicality, if only in the interest of humility. You're not doing yourself, much less your candidate, any favors with this sort of mud-slinging. If anything, the tenor of your posts confirms Obama's own suspicion that such silliness emanating from the very top level of a candidate's campaign "green-lights" such behavior from surrogates. And save me the posting-history histrionics or tu quoque nonsense: there are loud-mouths on both sides. But if you really want to convince others of the merits of your position, lay off the pissing contest and consider promoting the merits of your candidate-of-choice instead of parroting GOP talking points. It was a hard lesson to learn, but I came around to it eventually, too.
Alternately: DF is right. You've got the wrong subject, my man. This ain't about logic. It's mathematics. Care to accuse DF of failing that subject, too? Because you may want to refrain given, well, the state of the numbers and all. But fear not: there's always extortion, lawsuits, and mendacity to counter that frustrating ol' math thing.
March 28, 2008 10:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a winsome case for Sen Clinton's continued candidacy. I cannot say that I share your conclusions, but the sentiments which motivate them do you and Sen Clinton a credit. I wish you luck, even as I work for Sen Obama's victory.
March 28, 2008 7:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm a woman, and I'm voting for the candidate that I feel will be the best leader for this country. I determine my support by a careful weighing of policy positions, past actions, and demeanor.
I'm a woman, and I'm voting for Obama.
Hillary Clinton is not EveryWoman. To claim she is womenkind's Last Great Hope reduces the accomplishments she has made to a mere by-proxy gender vote. To claim that women who would rather have Barack Obama as president are "foolish" or imply that they're traitors to their sex is equally insulting.
I know, and your daughters will know, that they can do anything in America. They don't need Hillary Clinton to tell them so. They need positive role models -- not just on the national stage, but also within their own home -- who can assure them that they are equal in every way to their male peers, and must insist they be judged based on their actions and ideas. Not by their gender.
March 28, 2008 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was wonderfully expressed. It sounds rather like a guilt trip of sorts to conflate the success of all women with the success of Hillary Clinton alone.
March 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wellll, that's not exactly what I was saying. First and foremost, I think she is the best, most qualified candidate, and I'm not alone in my thinking by any means.
That fact alone leads me to encourage her not to quit, and to encourage her supporters not to quit on her. Add to that the names she's been called (witch, bitch, shrew, etc.) all negative names for women, expressed mostly by men. McCain's been called "chump," and I'll take chump long before I'll accept bitch.
Now, speaking as a woman who believes she's the best candidate to be President, and to beat any republican, I would hate to see her quit because a bunch of bullying men tell her to do so. The fact that she won't is inspiring to me.
I was once denied a position teaching a college band simply because I am female, and they believed women should be relegated to teaching elementary school general music or choral groups only. I had no recourse, even though I had proven successful experience above any of the other male candidates. So, I guess it's kind of a selfish thing for me to see her push through and win this. And I still believe she can and should.
March 28, 2008 10:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
You must read carefully before you comment. I implied that women who discourage other women from reaching their dreams are foolish. I have great respect for women who stand up for anything they believe in, including Barack Obama. That's my point. Those of us who believe in Clinton need to stand strong in that support.
March 28, 2008 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
"We need to be able to point to you when men (and foolish women) try to bully us into giving up a dream that we have sought and worked hard for."
I feel she should step down for the good of the party, and indeed, America. I read carefully, and I think you may now agree that you were in fact addressing people with my sentiments. :)
"I implied that women who discourage other women from reaching their dreams are foolish."
This is true, but I don't feel that's what your original post says. I am glad that Hillary ran, and I'm glad her campaign did as well as it did, and I'm glad that with the exception of a few whackjobs, her gender was not a cause of derision. That said, it's time for her to reassess her chances and take appropriate action -- ie, it's time for her to concede and start working to bring the party together around its presumptive nominee.
March 28, 2008 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmm. Sounds like YOU, as an Obama supporter, have assessed her chances from that perspective. From what I see, and what she seems to see, she is stronger in the places that matter: specific states, specific electoral votes, so in her view, and mine, she has a better chance of pulling this off than Obama. We differ, based on our preferences, and both of us think our logic makes more sense. I can't wait until the convention to see the end of this amazing drama.
March 28, 2008 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton will not drop out.
If the superdelegates come out in droves for Obama, this is going to be the "coup" that koscists are peaching everyday and Joshua Marshall supports openly now - overturning the "will of the people".
If Obama's surrogates call on Clinton to drop out, I hope she puts out commercials in every state yet to vote to tell all this directly to the voters.
If Obama refuses to seat MI/FL, he digs himself such a hole for November that McCain must be laughing with delight. Clinton will go all the way and force the Party go on record that they will not seat two key states.
If Clinton stays in the race and shows good performance, the gap between pledged delegates will be small enough to make the truth obvious - it's a close race and the voters don't agree.
Despite what the blogo-media, DF, Amber and Connie tell us, I think we're in for yet another surprise in this race.
March 28, 2008 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, despite that either candidate will need additional superdelegates to win, it's a "coup" if Obama is the winner.
I'm proud that I've made your shit-list. I must be doing something right.
March 28, 2008 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to admire Lalo where she continually shows that Clinton is the only one who can possibly win. She is behind right now in votes, pledged delegates, states won. If supers then support Obama, that is a coup.
I admire your spunkiness Lalo in the face of defeat.
The last such spunky character I admired was Baghdad Bob.
March 28, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bush claimed that his 51% win in 2004 represented the will of the people. He considered that paltry amount to be ... what did they call it? "...a clear mandate to advance the conservative agenda..."
We liberal democrats refuted that the will of the people was served in his "win."
Why then should Obama supporters keep asserting that his on again off again 44%-48% represents the will of the people to such an extent that the Superdelegates should all begin genuflecting his way? These numbers are not a mandate to any extent, and the SD's know it. It doesn't, any more than the Bush win did.
March 28, 2008 10:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about Hillary. And, no, she best not quit. And,yes, our dear brother from Vermont. What can you say? He didn't realize how he was sounding? And, he is a Progessive of all things!
Demosaur- do you then castigate AA's for saying they are voting for Obama because he is black?
March 28, 2008 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Castigate is perhaps too strong term for how I feel about both single-issue women and African American voters. But yes, it's equally belittling of Obama's achievements to base a vote for him solely on the color of his skin, and uninformed voting is a problem (albeit arguably part and parcel of a democracy) in general.
In a sense, I do sympathize -- my own mother supports Hillary because they share a generational perspective and I know my mother fears she'll run out of time before witnessing a female president. And yes, as a woman, I do know how much that will mean, glass ceilings be damned. Nonetheless, I'm confident that I at least will see that day, and content enough to wait for the right woman -- someone I can and will support on a basis of policy.
March 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well said.....
March 28, 2008 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I should hope so, I would also denounce and castigate not just AA's but anybody who would vote for Obama "just because he is black".
Whether said voters exist or not is what is begging the question.
March 28, 2008 8:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Come on kinki. Don't be disingenuous. You know there are plenty of voters that are voting for him because he is AA.
March 28, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
So it's wrong when they behave as such on behalf of their candidate but right when the poster (and likeminded Clinton-backers) behave as such on behalf of theirs? Are you really embracing the two-wrongs-make-a-Wright principle? What is this, third grade? Your credibility is rapidly approaching zero, Lville.
March 29, 2008 4:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
As a strong feminist, who took a minor is feminist literature during my Master's Degree, I am all for a woman running for and winning the White House. However, Hillary Cinton is not doing women and feminists any favors.
From my perspective, Hillary is running around twisting every bit of fact, using racism and fear, tearing apart the Democratic Party, and doing so in what is (ultimately) a shrewish demeanor.
From the moment she screeched out "SHAME ON YOU BARACK OBAMA" like some sort of she-beast.... Hillary began to embody everything that is stereotypically negative about a woman. (and i loathe these stereotypes) But she has been manipulative, conniving, whiney, and over-emotional.
I'm sorry but she is a TERRIBLE example about what is right with women in America. And she is a TERRIBLE example of feminism. In fact, her behaviors, in my opinion, have set back women a few steps. I think the next credible woman who runs for the Presidency (NOT Hillary) will have to tread through the garbage of the ghost of Shrillary Clinton.
Not exactly a role model for the progressive, powerful women in America.
Can you imagine this debate tactic at a summit in Greenland?
"SHAME ON YOU PUTIN! SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!"
EEEEGADS....if Hillary was ahead by ANY legitimate measure of victory, or had the legitimate chance to achieve victory by those measures, no one would tell her to bow out. But she is NOT going to win pledged delegates, most states, or popular vote.
For god's sakes..... certainly even YOU can see how insane it is to ignore the reality/fact of the situation.
Hillary is NOT an example for a generation of women.
March 28, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Hillary should be a good woman and just back down and let the man have it? Admit that although she is within a percent or two of the lead that she should just give up? That all those people wanting her to go and looking up to her should just forget about?
March 28, 2008 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
She "screeched" and became a "she-beast"?
Dave, buddy, I'm not sure what it is that makes you a such strong feminist, but I don't think I want to know.
March 28, 2008 8:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a baby boomer whose father took her to march with Martin Luther King (I'm surprised we don't show up in any of the photos, we two little white folk among a sea of beautiful AA's), I have worked tirelessly on behalf of Black civil rights. I would love to see Obama take the presidency one day. After Hillary.
Whether or not you support her, please take time to read about her life, her work and her achievements, and try not to judge her too harshly based on a primary campaign. You will discover quite a wonderful human being. All candidates do stupid things during primaries, and have made some bad judgment calls in life, including Obama (staying at that church, not saying the pledge--no problem for either of those things unless you plan to run for public office, especially the Presidency-bad judgment there).
Because if Hillary does win the nomination, it will be imperative for every democrat to support her victory over McCain, and it will be imperative for Hillary supporters to be behind Obama if he wins. This is a no brainer for me, and I hope for all of you.
March 28, 2008 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, I was willing to swallow your sales pitch until you went over the line with that "judgment" nonsense. Your candidate of choice is unapologetically bought and paid for by corporate lobbyists ("they're Americans too!") and a demonstrated liar (the Bosnia fairy tale is the tip of the mendacious iceberg) married to a walking scandal machine who chose to embrace right-center ideology over his own campaign promises during his NAFTA-passing, no-asking-no-telling, felon-pardoning presidency. The Republicans are demonstrably salivating over the prospect of a Clinton nomination (wake up and smell the Limbaugh: hundreds if not thousands of GOP sheep are turning out to vote for her in the primary precisely for this reason) and she has the gall to schedule a one-on-one with Scaife (!) to -- wait, what's that? -- slander her fellow Democratic candidate on (at best) race-baiting grounds when she's not appearing on FOX to claim (through a gritted-teeth smile) that her *opponent* lacks respect for democratic principles?
Look, I'll say something impolitic and impolite because it's late and I'm fed up with this garbage: there is one demographic, and one demographic alone who gets a free pass on buying this Clinton 2.0 refuse: white women over 80. The rest of you will be paying for John "America's American" McCain's 100 year folly in the Middle East long after those noble ladies are gone.
Your candidate has made a mockery of the party and a mockery of the process. Her only hope rests on the assumption that you're as stupid as she thinks you are. I, for one, don't think so. But, then again, I'm no Penn Wolfson, M.D. ("marginal democrat"). Our -- not mine -- our candidate is Barack Hussein Obama, father of two, Senator from Illinois. It's time to band together and take down that faux-maverick McCain before his lobbyist friends start measuring for curtains in the West Wing. Let's do this. Together.
March 29, 2008 4:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
**Oh crap! That's all I need. Hillary Clinton held up as a ROLE MODEL for women. I taught my daughters to succeed by THEIR OWN EFFORTS. They don't spend their time lying to others, and behaving like spoiled children when they don't get their way. Hillary Clinton isn't a fighter in any noble sense of the word. She's a brawler.
March 28, 2008 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
While I agree that it's about time we had a woman president, I disagree with the notion that I should vote for Hillary because she's a woman. That's just more sexism. As a third-wave feminist, I'm voting for the person I think will do the best job as POTUS, and that's Obama. I don't care what his gender, race, religion, or shoe size is. I really don't.
March 28, 2008 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I admire loyalty to your candidate. Let the process proceed for now, but if it becomes a risk for November it has to come to a conclusion. This election is far to important to risk losing.That must be the bottom line.
March 28, 2008 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bullshit. "All women need you to win this."
I'm a woman, I don't. Nor do my sister, my mother, or my grandmother, who are all supporting Obama. So are hundreds of thousands of other women.
If you want her to win as a symbolic victory for women, fine, but don't put that on the rest of us. Feminism doesn't mean that to me. To me it means we should all be judged on equal merits, by equal standards. I've done that with our candidates, and I've judged Obama to be the better candidate.
You can even argue that she's not being judged on equal merits by equal standards by the masses, and that's fine with me, but I'VE judged them equally.
March 28, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not counting supers, right now Clinton has 88% of Barack's pledged delegates. That's a 12% deficit. Including supers, Clinton sits at 92% of Obama's delegates, an 8% deficit.
She'll go up a bit after Pennsylvania, but it'll go back to a similar spread after Indiana and North Carolina. The contest is a little wider than "a point or two" at this stage.
March 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
This was meant to be in response to Louisville1975's comment, "Admit that although she is within a percent or two of the lead that she should just give up?" but TPM's crappy sign-in has struck again.
March 28, 2008 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Percentages are a great thing. But, actual numbers count more. She is behind 100 delagates or so...less than the size of say....Florida. He cannot win without the Supers as well. He will not have secured the nomination without them. Its folly to say that he has. And, without that win....on we go to the convention. There is no other way. This needs to play all the way out.
March 28, 2008 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
She is down by 131 delegates, in fact. If Florida's primary had counted, Clinton would take 111 delegates and Obama 69. That's a gain of 3% for Clinton, but still a 5% deficit of Obama.
March 28, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then tell me. Your her....knowing he can't win. D you quit?
March 28, 2008 9:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
If I know he can't win and I'm in fact doing worse than he is, then yes, I quit -- America has spoken and is unsympathetic to my party.
I take a month off and come back to help stump and raise funds for upcoming Senate and House contests to shoot for an overwhelming majority in congress.
I salvage my career for another run in 4 years, spend time building up more alliances, and give the Republican president hell. I don't get mean and effectively tear my party apart just to be able to say 'I told you so' later on. ;)
March 28, 2008 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, you think she should spend 4 years giving the Republican president hell? I guess that proves that you don't think Obama will win the GE if he's nominated (ok, I know you didn't meant that, but see how easy it is to goof when you're blogging?)
March 28, 2008 11:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't goof; I was responding to a hypothetical alternate-world where Hillary is correct. I thought that was fairly evident from how Louisville1975's question was worded, but sorry if my response was confusing.
March 29, 2008 4:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Stop goofing, start thinking. With your brain.
March 29, 2008 5:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are by far the angriest person I've read in all the blogs. Get over it!
March 29, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry, but as a woman I find this incredibly offensive. I have no desire to loft someone up because of her gender, no do I want people to tread lightly on her because of her gender. They are calling on her to drop out because she CANNOT WIN without tearing the party apart, NOT because she is a woman. To imply otherwise is to mitigate actual sexism and is deeply harmful.
March 28, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Same question anne, are you offended by AA's voting for obama because he is black?
March 28, 2008 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Point is we should be offended if the argument is AA's have to support Obama. That is the logical parallel to the argument presented in this blog. I am not offended by any woman supporting Clinton - I am offended when it is said that women must support Clinton. I am offended when it is said AAs must support Obama.
I am a white male. Guess I will support McCain then. Sorry Barack - I want to vote for you but identity politics won't let me.
March 28, 2008 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nor can he win without tearing the party apart even worse, according to the polls.
March 28, 2008 10:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
and once again we're back to "if you don't support hillary clinton you're a sexist pig who can't handle a strong woman in charge."
this record is starting to repeat itself....
March 28, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's why deomcrats are requesting that she stop running. She has lost already if the super-delegates follow the results in their elections thus far.
If the superdelegates simply follow and declare now this would be obvious.
I firmly expect Hillary would denounce thesde results because she will "never quit"... she gets "knocked down and she gets up again"... she's totally focused on her goals. Fine. In politics these behaviors have an impact upon voters: some admire the tenacity and some question the values of the person and their intent to serve people. It appears she is intent upon serving herself and the bulk of the party is going to reject her as a viable candidate.
Obama is leading because he connects with people.
He sure seemed respectful in the debate to me... He seems respectful to everyone. Most of the current attacks on him are by association. His campaign has been relatively spotless in terms of behavior, civility and respect for others.
March 28, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Forgive the sports metaphor, but both Clinton and Obama had to be Jackie Robinson. They had to be, if not perfect, the closest approximation our failible selves will allow. They had to be all the things they are credited for; strength, confidence, and political prowess, and none of the things for which they are condemned; pettiness, dishonesty and egotism.
So far, one of the two has proven himself more capable than the other. Of course he isn't perfect. But he is the closest thing we've had to it my entire lifetime (a life that has helped put both Gwen Moore and Tammy Baldwin in the congress, (yes I admit, I'm from Wisconsin)).
There's a reason Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige weren't the first. It had nothing to do with their playing and everything to do with their ability to weather the greater storm.
March 28, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have lost patience. Hillary's Bosnia fable is the latest and most dramatic example of her failing character. This was not misspeaking, this was a complete fabrication. No one of any race or gender gets a pass on a lie like that. Add to that the "commander and chief test" nonsense, and it becomes clear that no such man or woman should continue to receive political support.
March 28, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you think war stories are a big deal, you haven't seen much. I think the Bosnia flap tells us more about what it's like to be rich and powerful and surrounded by people who don't know how to challenge you than about anything else. All of our political figures face the same challenge, including Obama. Apparently, no one is able to step up and remind him of his actual experience with Wright and Rezko. Is he lying? I doubt it. Is his assessment of the situation accurate? Doubtful, too. So she will twist in the wind over Bosnia and he will twist in the wind over Wright and Rezko, until one or the other twists in the wind over something else. Both candidates are short on character. We have to compensate.
March 29, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you don't think it happens with Obama supporters in the Black community? Tavis Smiley might beg to differ.
March 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let it go, dude. Let it go.
March 29, 2008 4:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
As the mother of 2 daughters one of the things I am proud of them for is that neither of them are Clinton supporters. They see her as a manipulator, an exaggerator and certainly not a strong woman. I thought it was my responsibility to instill in my daughters that they could achieve what they wanted and it never crossed my mind to give that job to a politician.
You do not speak for me, I do not need Senator Clinton to be president to validate my worth as a woman. Nor do I see a win at any cost attitude as something to admire nor something that I want my daughters to emulate.
March 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, a sexist post which uses sexism to call men sexist and women who don't support Hillary foolish.
I am amazed. Is that what years of feminists struggling for women's rights has come to? All women must vote for a woman and men - well, men are pigs anyways and we know they will not support women.
You, womanstrong, are a sexist pig and perhaps more disturbing and more damaging to the cause of women than sexist men.
Please crawl back under your rock.
March 28, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reality: Obama will be the Democratic Party's nominee in the general election. That's the reality. It may not be what you want, but it is the truth. (Just ask Edwards and Biden and Richardson and Dodd and Kucinich.) Clawing at it won't change anything other than to make everything uglier.
Please stop.
March 28, 2008 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your post gives only two reasons to support Hillary, that she is a woman and that she is a fighter. As a woman I can say that having the first woman president would make me proud, except if it were Hillary because she is embarrassing. There is a difference between an honorable duel and a Tonya style kneecapping. Hillary appears capable of only the latter. That's not a fighter, that's a frightened brat lashing out.
March 28, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I suspect most Obama supporters have not seen an open convention. They are terrific. Believe me when I tell you all of the Progressive blogs, including TPM, are sucking up for credentials already. People who want their little three-speech convention where the pre-chosen candidate is anointed one night on national TV aren't political junkies, they're news clippers and news clip readers. Listen. There was a time when entire conventions were televised, all day and late into the evening. Conventions where the each plank of the platform was debated openly in front of America. Conventions where two delegations turned up from states and there were floor fights to determine which slate of delegates were seated. That was before it became so expensive to campaign that nobody could afford to campaign all the way to the convention. We'll emerge from Denver as a real political party, representing millions of passionately involved American men and women of all races. Sign me up for a real convention. The Republicans can anoint John McCain. Where's the excitement in that?
March 28, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly Billy. Will be good to not have the same old canned fruit for the Convention. It will be an open process in this day and time. It will be great for everyone to remind them of what a party is all about.......I am simply realy tired of people in NH and Iowa telling me who my Nominee should be when they are not even Dem states!
March 28, 2008 9:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I'm tired of is the Republican thugs who come around Progressive blogs pretending to be Obama supporters. They want me to believe that the same people who were shouting When Bush Lied People Died! are now shouting silly shit like liar, liar pantsuit's on fire about Hillary Clinton. I've got some of them zeroed now and I'm going to start giving out Greta Gobbler awards again. I don't know where they're getting their talking points, but I know they don't come from Obama.
March 28, 2008 10:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Louisville, people support candidates for a lot less good reasons than race and gender. What I object to is being told there's something wrong with me for not supporting HRC because she is a woman. And what I object to is this:
It's crying sexism when there isn't any. Hillary should step down because she can't win, except by fiat. And it's fine for "men to be harsh" in a debate when she's the frontrunner. I would certainly not want anyone to tread lightly on her because she's a woman. Women can play just as well, and don't need coddling or special treatment. And I am free to choose whomever I think would be the best president, regardless of race or gender. And, frankly, I am more than troubled by Hillary's willingness to portray herself as a victim. It's obviously worked politically because her supporters want to come to her aid against all the evil men and betraying women), but I'm from a different generation and I see it as degrading.
March 28, 2008 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aye yi yi!
Let me tell you what this "sexist" is doing in her home state...
I'm supporting, fundraising, and holding parties for a man for US Senate (and there are women running against him). I am supporting a man for our Mayor, and there is a woman running against him.
This blog was about me, and how I feel when I hear big shot men (or women for that matter) tell my candidate she should quit. I've never in 50 years heard anyone tell a man who is that close to neck and neck with a political rival to quit. When Ted Kennedy was challenging Carter for the nomination (and let me tell you, THAT was mean stuff--this is a ping pong match compared to it), and Carter had infinitely more delegates to Kennedy's than Obama has to Clinton's, no one told him to quit. The Supers sent him walking. That may happen to Clinton, or Obama. Either way, they both have the right to take it as far as they can, and they should.
March 28, 2008 11:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is garbage and you know it. How do I know it? Because, by your logic, if the Dems (or anyone for that matter!) were to nominate Condoleezza Rice for Pres with Eva Braun as VP, anyone with ovaries would be obligated to vote a straight chick-ticket, gas chambers be damned. Do you have any idea the extent to which you're embodying the Right's caricature of leftist identity politics?
"This blog was about me."
No fucking shit.
March 29, 2008 5:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
... and Carter had infinitely more delegates to Kennedy's than Obama has to Clinton's...
I don't think this word means what you think it means.
March 29, 2008 5:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
My goodness, if you represent Obama, he'd probably fire you.
March 29, 2008 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Surely, though, someone should have told Kennedy to quit. His persistence turned out to be detrimental to the good of the party (and the nation, regrettably enough). Are we obliged to make the same mistake twice simply so as not to trespass against an abitrary standard of appearance of sexism?
March 29, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way, and I mean this sincerely and not as a challenge--but Hillary is saying she is a fighter and her supporters echo it. And George Bush said he was a uniter. And certainly, Hillary has fought like hell against Obama. But can someone provide me with an example of her lofting a similar fight against the Bush administration? I know she'll fight for her own political power, but when presented with this rampant evil and destruction, how has she fought?
March 28, 2008 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Hillary has fought like hell against Obama. But can someone provide me with an example of her lofting a similar fight against the Bush administration?"
Fantastic point! The most vicious crime scenes involve family members.
March 28, 2008 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Google Hillary Clinton on the Bush Administration. For your penance: 15 minutes outside the echo chamber. Go in peace and sin no more.
March 28, 2008 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Fantastic point! The most vicious crime scenes involve family members."
Hillary's attempt to take Obama out at this point is nothing short of a crime of passion.....bystanders beware!
March 28, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks everyone for a great discussion. (And a kissy kissy to you MMW. Wait for me in the mud hole!)
March 28, 2008 11:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno, Billy. Speeches, I grant you. But speeches don't count, right? I mean, the biggest act of Senatorial cojones in the last few years was Chris Dodd on telecom immunity. That's a fighter right there...
I suppose my problem is I just have a hard time forgiving her for the war vote. A little fight then might have been nice... And that's not necessarily fair; I came from Edwards, after all. But I feel with her platform and celebrity she could have at least tried to change the narrative then. The stakes, after all, were thousands of Americans' lives, hundreds' of thousands of Iraqis, not to mention finding Osama.
And then she goes and gives these goons a back door to Iran?
March 29, 2008 12:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
She actually has some interesting stuff on her web site about the things she's done to oppose the occupation, including sponsoring legislation to revoke the AUMF and end the occupation. I'm not as conflicted about her AUMF vote as most people around here are. And I think her record on Iran is exactly the opposite of enabling Bush to attack Iran without Congressional approval. I don't hate her for her flaws, and I don't hate Obama for his. I think people here would benefit from free time outside the Obama echo chamber.
March 29, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anybody else notice how eager Mr. Louisville is to speak on behalf of women everywhere? We have a nominee, sir. If you're a genuine Democrat (or a genuine patriot, for that matter), you'd demonstrate it by doing everything in your power to get him elected. Otherwise, the rest of us will operate on the assumption you're a GOP operative paid (assuming you're not pathetic enough to do this gratis) to stir up e-trouble. Neither scenario paints a pretty picture. We've got a once-in-a-generation chance to recalibrate political discourse in this country in a way that slots so cleanly into progressive principles. Are you going to blow it out of hubris, pride, and/or egotism? (On that note, if you are in fact a Clinton campaign operative, I'd ask that you pose the same question to your "superiors." If you're not, well, then I've got nothing but my condolences for you, sir.)
March 29, 2008 5:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please don't include me in "the rest of us" that you presume to speak for. We'll have a nominee when Clinton or Obama concedes or the delegates at the convention cast their votes, whichever comes first. Nobody died and left you in charge of declaring the victor in this primary race.
March 29, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
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