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TPMLectureHall

It seems to me that TPMCafe is no longer the right name for this site. In the past, it really did resemble a cafe. You could come, chat, argue, and get to know the other patrons (as well as a few of the more sociable barristas). Now conversation is impossible and all you can do here is listen to Josh's pals pontificate. It's really quite dull, isn't it?

Guess I'm off to Starbucks.  At least I can get a real cup of coffee there.


Comments (18)

While I love this site overall, it does seem like they made a decision to downplay reader blogs. We don't even have our own page any more and reader blogs disappear pretty quickly. It's much less friendly for average Joes who want to be involved -- log-outs happen way to fast, comments being deliberately delayed or having to be pre-approved takes too long, etc...

Also, feature-wise, you can't edit blogs any more. No "Late Updates" for reader blogs. You hit submit and that's it. No fixing typos or anything...

We don't even have our own page any more…

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/

I'm not holding my breath for the improvements we would like. I can't work up the enthusiasm I used to feel.

For their sake I hope they have some more traffic.

I miss being able to see my comments and the replies to them. I miss the old group most of whom are still here but are lost in the clutter as I assume I am.

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First visit since the changeover. I agree that this new format seems insipid and less interesting/entertaining. I'm removing the site from my Google Reader -- too many more interesting sites to waste time here. I'll probably visit every month or so just to see if some semblance of website management sanity has made a comeback. Ta ta.

tlees2 and Sam T, drop by Eric's forum for Cafe refugees.

http://projectlucidity.com/forum/index.php#4

Forgot to invite the poster, PurpleState to Eric's, also.

http://projectlucidity.com/forum/index.php#4

Good going, Tom! (for both posts above this)

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Howdy,

Just stopped in for a short red-eye to go. Maybe this place could take a tip from Starbuck's new CEO. Shut down for several hours and train.

Anyway, as I'm also working on a project for a CMS system, one thing hasn't been mentioned here. There are limitations to each of the hundreds of different CMS packages out there. I only think fair benchmarks of programmers and administrators is how efficiently they are functioning within the constraints of the software itself. To further that end, please follow the link below to the CMS Matrix website. There is a good listing of available software packages, and you can compare the three that TPM has been on since inception (or at least as long as I've been here).
On the matrix page you can select different packages and compare their features side by side.

Put a checkmark beside 1)Scoop 2)Drupal and 3)Movable Type, then click compare. You can also find a ratings system to see what users (probably just admins)thought about the software.

Anyway, here's the link:
http://www.cmsmatrix.org/matrix

We can argue about the implementation of the change- that's all fair game- but once that decision is made, the only way to move forward is to re-adjust and re-evaluate.

Espresso kicked in. Seeya!

Alphonse (Al) Kada

I'm more of a Joomla! guy, myself.

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Oh, almost forgot!

Hey Josh! There hasn't been dick posted on the Coffee House page in over a week.

Give it to us.

Thanks!

Al

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I used to enjoy this site and was a member since the beginning. Other than to a quick "this is shit or this is not shit" there is no point in even commenting.

I fully recognize that we have no say in this, it isn't our site or our business in how it's run, but what a disappointment, especially to those who were here when it was a one man shop.

I had another name for the Cafe's new version---shopping-mall coffeeshop.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/02/more-mall-than-coffee-house.php

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Alright, I've tried to be patient for a couple of weeks, but I have a number of serious gripes.

There is something much less intimate about the new site. It seems more slick, cold and commercial. The white background and minimalist design is bland and antiseptic, and lacks any feeling of warmth, humor, community or comfort. The blandness of the design also gives more prominence to the ads, which create a sense of impersonal, commercial cheesiness.

The user experience so far seems much less interactive and homey. Three features above all seem like steps backward: (i) the lag time between posting a comment and the comment's appearance make it harder to have a real time conversation; (ii) no highlighting of new comments make it harder to distinguish new comments from old comments or to follow several conversations within a single thread; and (ii) the demotion of the user's screen name to very small type at the bottom of the post weakens the immediate connection between the comment and the person posting it.

And while I was never a fan of the old ratings system, it would be good if there were some other replacement feature or features offered to promote interpersonal interaction.

There are a lot of new names here. I'm not sure how many are actually new users, and how many are old users who chose new screen names during the transition. But the reader posts now seem to contain a lot of hit and run, canned political spam and quickie news items from people who aren't really part of the TPM Cafe community. This adds to the feeling of falseness and phoniness.

I'm experiencing problems with the archives. Once a post moves past the bottom of the blog roll, it appears to be gone for ever. The archive pages are empty when I try to access them.

Clicking on a screen name sends you to an archive of the user's posts and comments, but the posts and comments are in chronological order, with the oldest posts first. This is rather useless. I would also prefer to see the date and the name of the original main post at the top of the comment, rather than the bottom.

The smaller print is tougher on my aging eyes.

I don't like the photos.

I also have to say that, while a certain level of bugginess is always to be expected with any new online application or upgrade, this particular rollout here at TPM Cafe appears unusually half-baked and poorly prepared. Usually the new version is put through weeks of testing by likely users, so that it is as close to fully functional and bug free when it is rolled out as possible. Who tested this new site? Were TPM Cafe members recruited to use it, look it over and offer suggestions? So far, using it is like trying to get something done in an office building that is still under construction, filled with tarps, ladders, dripping paint and screeching table saws.

The increasing professionalization and commercialization of the blogosphere is, I fear, destroying much of its original charm and novelty. I really don't find much that much out here here anymore that I can't find on more conventional media. Everybody now seems to work for a magazine or media company of some kind, and the links are increasingly used for plugging, rather than for information-driven connectivity.

There are fewer sites, it seems, with really interesting and revelatory content. I used to feel like the conventional media operated on a thoroughly phony level of BS pseudo-knowledge, conventional wisdom, and manufactured perception. I had to turn to the blogosphere to find out what was "really going on". The blogosphere was similar to a network of underground ham radio operators in a country under occupation, and you needed to listen to those guys to get the truth and escape from the oppressive ubiquity of the mind-numbing Official Story. The bloggers would dig up some deep and important secret, unreported meeting or obscure but vital connection, and this information would then spread quickly to challenge the various official government and media lines. (For example, while Bush and company were laying the groundwork for war with layers of pure crap, some blogger would dig up a strategic planning report from global oil execs, and maybe a report about an unpublicized meeting between these execs and government officials.) I'm not finding as much of that now. The blogosphere and conventional media have been fused and integrated, with bloggers appearing on radio and television, and mainstream journalists appearing in the blogs, and as a result the media group think and uniformity is now replicated on the blogs. To use a traditional phrase, a higher and higher percentage of the blogosphere has been "co-opted."

Agree.

Drop by Eric Stepp's forum for Cafe refugees.

Try this link:

http://projectlucidity.com/forum/index.php

You really hit it here, Dan:

"I really don't find that much out here here anymore that I can't find on more conventional media."

What was most interesting about TPMCafe was the discussion about the lead articles, not the lead articles themselves. The new site, however, shifts the emphasis away from the discussion and places it back on the lead articles. And in doing that, the site becomes much more like a journal or newspaper. And honestly, if you want to read journal or newspaper articles, you'll find better stuff in Harpers, the Nation, or even The New York Times and Washington Post.

TPMCafe is now just an online journal. The original cafe concept is gone. Whether that's intentional (Josh wanted to control the content more and make his site more of a forum for the elite whom he asks to post than for all us unwashed masses who sometimes say embarassing things) or accidental (the transition wasn't well considered), I don't know. I do know, however, that the content itself isn't all that compelling and I'm spending more of my online time elsewhere.

I'm beginning to understand and appreciate the complaints of the old-timers. At the same time, I really hope you stick around and weather the changes. Until recently, I would rarely comment at TPM because it was glaringly obvious to me that I had little to contribute to a discussion that was being driven by folks who were so much better informed than I could ever hope to be. If you same folks, who I enjoyed reading so much in the comments and elsewhere here, were to reassert your presence, I'd gladly STFU in the company of my betters. Kinda reminds me of that old T.S. Eliot quote about systems versus good people - even the best of the former depends on the latter to work. If you're an old-timer and you've been disappointed with the offerings from newbies like myself, or with the shortcomings of TPM 3.0, I guess this is my request that you hang in there.

We're hanging in here in terms of monitoring and commenting. But for "community" we're finding a space at Eric's. (see Tom's comment above)

TPM is a terrific place for politics. The Muck. The main site. EC. But the Cafe currently has many problems. And the greatest among them is the inability to 'find' anyone. (That's what Eric is providing right now... and maybe for much longer.)

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