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Obama Complains?
The newest smear tactic by the pro-Obama commenters on TPM is to paint Hillary as a whiny cry-baby when she talks about unfairness in the press. Then, go on to question whether Obama has ever complained.
A choice quote, from billysumday:
"Maybe you should ask Hillary to stop whining. Obama hasn't complained once, so far as I can tell."
So, just a little refresher course for the hypocrites:
I'm also told that this move came after the Obama campaign repeatedly complained to high level officials at CNN about the presence of Carville and Begala on the network.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2008/01/cnn_says_no_mor.php
I've accepted the fact that I most likely have to settle for Obama as our candidate, but can his supporters on here please stop being so ridiculous? Like all the time, every single day? It's nauseating.
Comments (9)
My problem isn't that Clinton points out that the press is hostile, my problem is that she fails to recognize that the press is just hostile to Democrats in general. The problem is that the "aforementioned" whining is directed at Obama and is usually accompanied with an appeal to collaborate on an oppo-dump (Wolfson's whine about Rezko today and the Ayers last weekend are perfect examples).
It's not the same as claiming a specific comment was misrepresented nor is it the same as requesting that operatives of your opponent not be allowed to come on and provide "independent" analysis.
Anyway, this looks like a strawman argument to me.
February 29, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
It'd behoove you to look at the context surrounding billysumday's "choice quote". Billy Glad (or someone who has misappropriated his account) has taken to saying "stop whining" as pretty much his only response, regardless of whether there is anything remotely like whining (or even complaining!) in the post he's responding to. If someone says something great about Obama, Billy responds with "Want some cheese with your whine?"
In that bizarre context, billysumday's comment makes more sense.
As for the average TPM poster lamenting on Hillary's (or her supporter's) constant claims of unfairness (Michigan/Florida/press in general/debate first question/Texas/flyers/TPM), you'll also find TPM posters lamenting on Obama's supporters claims of unfairness (superdelegates/press in general/TPM). The more you claim unfairness, however, the more you should expect to get it reflected back to you. No one likes the "unfair" game, except for those who are currently playing it.
February 29, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
What? In what context does "Obama has never complained" make sense when I've given instances of him complaining?
The point wasn't Obama shouldn't complain or Hillary shouldn't complain, the point was to remember they both do it, they and their candidate are not above it.
As many have pointed out before (and this doesn't apply to you, Ben), the ridiculousness of most Obama supporters on here make it harder and harder for a Clinton supporter to want to join the Obama team, with their constant flip-floppery and hypocrisy, and these blanket statements about their candidate which are not even remotely based in fact.
February 29, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would hope that you wouldn't base your support or lack of support for Obama based entirely on his supporters. After all, Farrakhan is apparently supporting Obama.
If it were me, I'd have more trouble supporting Obama based on Clinton's assertions that he's not ready to be Commander-In-Chief.
February 29, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, there is a difference between a specific claim and a general claim that the media is just against you.
As far the Obama/CNN thing goes, I think anyone would agree that having Carville and Begala on as "analysts" during this campaign is a bit of a problem. Thing is, it was a valid and specific complaint and CNN dealt with it. By the way, they're still on, just not as analysts. They still appear alongside other surrogates. I'm wondering if, should Clinton become the nominee, this would remain to be the case in the general election.
Ask yourself: What is this press supposed to do about Clinton's very general claim? Who is she complaining to? What about exactly? Even if it is true that the press is biased against her, is this supposed to make them less hostile? What does it say about someone who wants to be President, but complains about the way the media is covering them? Isn't the press supposed to be adversarial toward the government?
Like many other things that the Clinton campaign has done, this is just a bad tactic. It doesn't look good and it doesn't help her. The same would be true for anyone.
March 1, 2008 2:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is why Hillary is the wrong person for this job. She cannot be the standard bearer (as she likes to put it) for the party. She constantly tries to tear Barack Obama down. Her staff plants smears about him with right wing media. She has called him a plagiarizer, a blank screen, and said that he is all hat and no cattle. And to her mind, this is all just 'vigorous campaigning.' But is isn't.
It is short sighted, opportunistic, and destructive of party loyalty. I heard her recorded comments at the State of the Black Union event held in New Orleans last weekend. She spoke at length about how the party would need to rally around the eventual nominee in order to win the general election in November. Frankly, I am wondering how she feels that might be accomplished after the scorched earth tactics she is using to become that nominee. In fact, she truly is delusional if she thinks she has any chance at all to win the general election. She has ruined any chance that the party might unify around her candidacy. In fact, her nomination will send the Democratic party into a period of such decline that it might not ever recover.
Democrats will vote for her. That's about it. And that is not enough.
Every vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote for John McCain.
March 1, 2008 5:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
You see Hillary is shrill and a Bitch when she does it. And she cackles. And she's so calculating. You can feel her claws coming out. Periodically, when she's feeling "down" she lashes out.
March 1, 2008 8:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
But, you see, Hillary is a whiny cry-baby. I'm not going to back down from the claim that Obama complains about the press and about attacks from his opponent nearly as much as Hillary does.
You see, nothing is Hillary's fault. Ever. It's the fault of the media, or of red state dems, or of caucuses, or of the DNC stripping FL and MI of their delegates. But Hillary? No, Hillary is pure and good and should be queen for life!
So, whine away, my friend. Whine about Obama supporters. Whine about sexism. Whine about Republicans. Whine about the media. It is sooooo appealing.
It's time we had a Dem candidate who was strong and aggressive and on the offense in a campaign.
March 1, 2008 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dear NG,
The thing is that responding, refuting, complaining and whining are not exact synonyms.
Even if you would have us believe so.
March 1, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
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