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For the "back benchers" and meta-conversationalists...
Ok, I was a little hesitant to post this myself, since it's an obvious conflict of interest. At the same time, I'm seeing the frustration of various established users of TPM Cafe.
The scope, and it seems intent, of the TPM Cafe appears to be to generate as many user posts as possible in as simple a method as possible. And that's fine, I certainly understand the appeal to drive-thru clicks and a well branded site.
And please, spare me with the "the old Cafe was too difficult for users to use." If that were the case, no one would have bothered posting. Not the users, not the Book Club folks, not the Table For One Folks, etc. Users could use the site, it just didn't fit with the lowest common denominator blogger that seems to make up the "blogghorea" needed for higher traffic stats.
Like I said, I totally understand all this, and I'm not here to judge. It's a business, and I'm probably the most pro-business user on the site.
The problem for the established users is that we're used to meta-discussions on the topics that are posted. Rarely did one see a drive-by posting found on the main TPM site, or the breaking-at-the-moment postings found at EC and MR. Posts at the Cafe were more nuanced, more discussion-friendly.
Someone did a quick analysis of the posts on here for last week, and it seemed (recalling from memory) that the average comment per blog post is 3. Three comments, with nary a threaded reply. That's not discussion.
This isn't a knock to the new users. Welcome, I say! I've actually enjoyed some of the writing from some of the new members. But, I don't think I'll be participating in conversations (what little there are) for some time. And I'm not talking about the technical problems that have plagued the site since the switch-over. The atmosphere and attitude now seems to fit more with EC and MR... post the most up-to-date blog post, then move on.
So, the established users got riled. Wouldn't you be, if your favorite site to discuss just about any topic - and not just politics or the election - was taken over by the blog zombies? Some have left, some have decided to wait it out, some are still actively posting. It's not that we blame Josh, or the developers, or the new bloggers. We're just mourning the loss of a cherished site and resource.
To that end, I have created a (temporary? permanent? we haven't decided) a refuge for those TPM Cafe'ers who enjoyed the more threaded discussion, the more nuance and meta discussions. This isn't to compete with TPM Cafe, or to take users away. It's to fill a need that was created by the change-over. Nothing more.
If you're interested in re-creating a community based on respect for differing views, emotional maturity in posting / commenting, and nuanced discussions, then please feel free to visit FORUM: Lucidity at http://forum.projectlucidity.com.
Some of your favorite TPM Cafe bloggers are already there.
Comments (9)
As I've repeatedly said, I think having the recommended blog posts function working will solve much of the "drive by" commenting you're concerned with. Having the ability to promote threads and posts you like to focus for the day will enable better conversation. So will ironing out a lot of the log-in bugs.
February 11, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
And as I've repeatedly said, awesome. Can't wait for it, and I do think it will improve the site.
Problems is, Andrew, the site isn't working NOW. And, there's no telling WHEN the site will be working to the extent that you describe.
Potential and actual are two wildly different things.
Thus, the need to create a refuge for those who want the meta-discussions and the community culture, and who want it back now.
February 11, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Andrew, for deleting the extra character returns (line breaks?) and the extra comments.
February 11, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Roberta, if you read this, please click on the "refugee site" and join up. Sorry there's no other way to reach you.
Chuck Keller, same thing!
Trish? You too!
Andrew, we understand you're trying to fix things. But we need way to connect that's working for us and for what we need.
No offense to TPM, which we fondly call: The Mother Ship.
♪♪♪
February 11, 2008 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Andrew ignores the crucial point, you don't have a conversation if you don;t know someone is trying to talk to you. If you make a comment, and forget that you did, and someone replies, there it ends.
Promoting popular threads is not sufficent, and also not necessary. Since we could find them they were de facto popular, before, when they had a hundred replies, with most of that being internal conversation. Just pennies in the fountain, now.
No offense intended, but disappointment, and non-acceptance of explanations that dodge the point. Sill waitying for identity issues to get fixed. If at ain't going to happen, I'd appreciate knowing that. Eventually I'll just go away. of course.
February 11, 2008 6:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, no private messaging, thus no way to contact people. Roberta has a profile. But dead end! She hasn't commented since the 5th of this month. May have given up and gone away... who knows?
No tracker, so no way to leave something that someone sees as "new" message.
And no warning! So no way to think this through ahead of time and gather together what we'd need as refugees.
February 11, 2008 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with how frustrating this all is. I don't know if it will help, but I just happened to try the "Search" function at the top of the page - and it actually worked! This is at least one thing that works, as far as I can see, far better than it did at the old site. It might provide a way of keeping track of people and conversations, until things get worked out.
I will probably stay here, and not go off to post anywhere else that's a replacement, however temporary, for TPM Cafe. This is probably because I recently had to switch my allegiances after Edwards withdrew, and I'm not feeling up to doing it a second time just now.
But hurry up, Andrew!
February 12, 2008 12:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Eric,
The idea of setting up an alternative site reminds me of when Plastic.com went quiet for months and some of the former participants got together and made Trees and Things.com into a post-Plastic refuge. Both sites are active now but both are more insular than Plastic.com was several years ago.
Looking past over the last six years I have participated (or almost participated) in various internet discussion groups, it seems that most become small social clubs without some element constantly negating such a tendency. While harnessing this element is much like herding cats, it seems to me that TPM has always (sometimes with quixotic flair) attempted to keep the Cafe denizens on a collision course with circles outside itself.
The latest changes in the site format amount to a sharp departure from earlier strategies. The result, paradoxically, has been to make the place more insular than it was before.
As a consequence, the shoe is now on the other foot. Using outside sites to preserve connections and restore functions not included the present set up would be helpful but I would like to see us old farts carry on like we used to even if the structure of the present site makes it very difficult to so.
February 11, 2008 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, forgot to put out a call to Devon.
Devon, please meet us at the "information desk." See above... Eric's post.
February 11, 2008 10:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
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