There is being proud, with reservations, and being unreservedly proud.

I hold the former view, since I am decidedly not proud of CIA interventions in various countries, Vietnam, Iraq, climate issues, and of course civil rights. And let's not talk about W.

Then there are those native Americans.

As to the impact of Obama's African-American status, I suspect it will have been blunted by the world staring at the faces of Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice for the last 8 years.

It also depends how you define a minority. Napoleon Bonaparte, a Corsican, was a minority. Benjamin Disraeli, a Jew, was a minority. Margaret Thatcher was, well, a woman, which is worse than being a minority. Nicholas Sarkozy, a son of a Hungarian immigrant, might or might not be an immigrant, depending on your definition. Joseph Stalin, a Georgian, was a minority. Adolf Hitler, an Austrian, was a minority. I could go on.

First of all we should all reject the idea that we should always have been and always be proud of "our country." If you haven't been ashamed of your country more often than proud in the last 2 decades then you simply haven't been paying attention.

I do think that "Really proud" does, however, exempt her from any reasonable charge of not having been proud in the past.

She could easily retort that she's always been proud, but this is the first time she has been really, whole heartedly, proud. That's a perfectly plausible and unimpeachable interpretation of her remarks.

I do think it is unseemly that she is only really proud when her husband happens to be running. I mean, sure, she feels that way... who wouldn't... but it's not very politic to say it out loud.

But no one is even criticizing her for that almost self congratulatory element in her remarks.

Two examples of minority national leaders:

Manmohan Singh (Prime Minister of India, 2004-present, Sikh)

Leon Blum (Prime Minister of France, 1936-1937, 1938, 1946-1947, Jewish)

On a separate note, a number of the criticisms I've seen have been at least partly about what Mike2 calls the "self congratulatory element in her remarks."

BTW, her remarks seem perfectly reasonable for me, especially given her background. They were politically foolish, and I hope they won't hurt Obama this fall.

Time to reign her in. Obama is in the competition of his life. He knows what he can and cannot say. Someone needs to teach her, or quiet her. Period.

Personally I don't want to hear a thing from any of the spouses.

As for being black in America, I don't know much about Michelle's experience, but from what she has spoken about it, she had loving, hardworking parents who taught she and her brother self-respect, self-love, and self-confidence. Lucky girl. These are the first and most important things lost in many black children before they reach adulthood. She had them and took them to Harvard and Princeton.

I am willing to bet her pastor, (whose revival I have actually attended), has taught her this cynicism about America and perhaps Chicago's politics and two Bush terms have reinforced it.

OR she could have really been referring to the fact that white people are voting for her husband, which continues to surprise me (and probably most black people) and make me proud of America in a way I haven't been before.

But I am not defending her comment. She needs to check herself, fast. She's not helping here.

Michelle has clarified her statements and race had nothing to do with what she meant.

Well MsJane, I sure got over being infatuated with you pretty blamed quick.
If anything, she's got a good head on her shoulders, so why should she shut up? She's got the gift of gab, and very good, and intelligent gab. I don't understand where your appetite for this spousal abuse, sorry this spouse-bashing comes from. If it's from Cindy McCain, yes then you got a point, thropy wives with drinking problems shouldn't talk.

And wait a second, her PARENTS are not divorced, instilled good values in her, disciplined her and
somehow that should make her proud of AMERICA?? The same country that put her parents in the back of the bus? The same country that thinks that affirmative action is a lap of luxury land for blacks and poor whites? The same country that makes you feel that you have to lick the asses of those who give you handouts, because they won't give you access to a normal job? The same country that calls speaking out against racism "playing the race card" and that is somehow unfair to whites? (actually, I can see that, they control about 90 percent of what goes on in this country, so it's only fair they get to control the rest too! Innit?)

As you said, you have no idea what it's like to grow up black in America. Read Anne Franks diary, you might get a picture.

Spare me your condescension of Michelle Obama, she 's a selfmade Harvard graduate, what are you? So she had the support of her family, SHOULD SHE BE BLAMED FOR THAT?

Go fly a kite.

Seems those kangaroos are messing with your mind. Do remember to duck when you throw those boomerangs, will ya?

Wow, this is racist nonsense.

Michelle Obama was raised in a good home with good parents, she was bright, she skipped 2nd grade, she attended a Magnet high school, from which she got to Princeton and later Harvard.

Unless I hear her describe how she hid in fear every night because of KKK stories from her grandfather, I'll just assume this person thinks every black person in America came out of a movie. Hey, go see "Crooklyn", twasn't all bad.

So Michelle could have said, "I goofed - of course I was really proud this country let my parents work, gave me a safe normal upbringing, gave me the opportunity of a magnet school, gave me the chance to go to a fine college, and of course all the external things - bringing down black poverty in the 90's, inventing the internet, helping end apartheid in South Africa, helping bring down the Berlin Wall. These are the kinds of profound change that this campaign is working for, and with the amazing turnout and support from so many people, I'm once again really really proud, perhaps the proudest I've ever been."

Now I'll go off to see what she actually said.

Dudes, Michelle was from Chicago. Her parents weren't in the back of the bus. Those were southern laws. Certainly Chicago had a different set of problems, but the point is there wasn't an active KKK and back-of-the-bus policy in Chicago. Is Obama's popularity being driven by naive liberal guilt? I seriously hadn't thought that before, but some of these comments are just mind-boggling. Get a grip - there really were stable black families before the 50's - not so many rich or middle-class ones, but still with decent values, stable life styles, and reasonable chances of success. And by the mid-60's when Michelle was born? Come on - she was born at the time of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, when the whole country was coming to a consensus that racism had to end. Yeah, there was a struggle, but blacks more than any won. Barack's father married two white women in America in the early 60's - apparently society wasn't that intolerant.

I really think it's funny that you can stand there and defend that the system is so fair and equal.
How many Michelle Obama's are there? Not a whole lot, and NOT a lot in comparison by her white counterparts. Just because some make it, doesn't mean all make it. Think about this statistic: The richest African American is Oprah Winfrey, who with 1.5 billion is a pauper in comparison to the richest Euram, Bill Gates, who has 56 billion. He gives half of what Oprah has each year to charity.
Now, I'm certainly not complaining on Oprah's behalf (who's 'just' #664 on the rich list #286th American), but I just wanna give you some perspective.

And are you really saying she didn't descend from slaves? THAT is her historical narrative, and lynchings are part of that, just like the Holocaust is for all jews. Where do think her forefathers were BEFORE Chicago? Do you think they came from Canada?

My point is yes, Mrs Obama has every right to be cynical about the country, PRECISELY because all those great achievement people drool about CANNOT be hers, because blacks have largely been, and are still so by some regarded as squatters, not as real Americans.
And sure, it's gotten better over time, but is it such a stretch of the imagination that blacks don't feel equal?
If the initial reaction within the black community to Obama is: "Don't run for president, because you'll get shot", do you think blacks feel equal?

You truly need a reality check! Are you in denial that black STILL aren't equal yet?

The CEO

TCEO,

Black poverty went from 33% to 21% in the 90's and black home ownership and investments sky-rocketed (a blessing before this administration). Numerous black mayors have been elected since the 80's. Black movies are now standard fare, and black actors some of the highest grossers - and it's no longer just ghetto movies or stories about the south. Black culture and blacks in society are accepted. We had a black commander and another black astronaut on the space shuttle. We have the internet, where a black can do virtual e-commerce and pretty easily never deal with work-related prejudice. Anyone who can afford a $500 computer can learn to program Linux or do Web design and make money. One of the most respected bloggers who died recently was black, blogging from an apartment in Harlem. Sorry, don't know what distorted European country you're living in, but in America it's never been about no discrimination, it's been about the opportunity to overcome discrimination. That doesn't mean it's a level playing field or Rodney King/"driving while black" incidents aren't happening, but it means the level of acceptance and opportunity for blacks in America has increased steadily since 1964. And Michelle Obama should know this and she should feel grateful, not just for herself, but for many of the efforts people around her have made to improve the system for everyone. And for the results that impact her kids and make their chances a million times better. And if she doesn't feel grateful, as a politician's wife she should be savvy enough to know that many potential voters will not appreciate her lack of gratitude - not kissing the white man's ass, as you might believe, but appreciating the great efforts made - then she with her East Coast education should at least be clever enough to hide her disgruntlement.

My dear Desi,
I don't know what misty eyed liberal part of the country you're from but:
- Black film are standard fare? Yeah right, despite a well deserved couple of Oscars in recent years, in this years five Oscar nominations for Best film there is not even ONE significant role for a black actor. Out the 20 nominations, there just one for an African American, and it's not likely that she'll get it.
- Even the cerebral and politics preoccupied NYT has noticed that the fashion runways, with the departure of Tyra Banks are increasingly whites only. The only black supermodel on the runways is Naomi Campbell and she's an antique in model years.
- Out of CBS's 10 primetime shows there's only one black lead, Dennis Haysbert, in The Unit. And this most likely because of the overrepresentation of African Americans in the army, which is because they are disproportionately poor. NBC, ABC, FOX (ha ha) have NO shows whatsoever with black leads, well, maybe Girlfriends, a sitcom. Ah those funny black people, they are such a laugh! My word.

And these statistics are the least important.
Whites are never being racially profiled, not even by black policemen.
Black men have a 11 times as likely to be convicted for the same crimes as whites. Drugs? Black teens go to prison, doing hard time for sometimes 15 years, white teens? Go to rehab. Again, Katrina!! And if that Katrina wasn't enough , bush is STILL refusing to pay for damages. What, did you think Democratic governor Kathleen Blanco of Louisiana, quit her job just like that? She didn't have the power to fight these a-holes any more, who continued to structurally give their cronies much more aid-money, namely Haley Barbour less-devastated Mississippi, because he's a Republican from a mostly white state.

There is no other ethnic group who, as group is so disenfranchized as the African Americans. EVEN DESPITE all the celebrities and astronauts and politicians (by the way, 3 elected Senator out of a possible 1500 times there was an election is very poor, as is just 2 Governors.)
Celebrities and astronauts don't put food on the table, I guess your poor whites can testify to that. I wanna bet that if you ask whites, which minority group they least want to trade places with are the African Americans. Which I understand. As long as that is the case, black people have EVERY RIGHT not to be 'really' proud of their country.

And hey, you know what? It's all good, we're gonna get there. I just don't wanna hear we're already there when there are so many indications, that not only we aren't there, but that we're sliding back.

It's like this: you have the loaf of bread, and you're throwing us a few crumbs, where 1 or 2 slices would not even be CLOSE to a fair share. Yet Mr. White Man shrieks indignation when someone like Michelle Obama has the audacity to remark that fact.

But again, it's all good. Just don't be surprised when they put a bullet in BHO, there's gonna be rampage through all american cities, like Katrina hit everywhere. Cause that REALLY would be the last straw. Let's just all hope it won't come to that.