The Anatomy of Intolerance
Connect the dots:
Many Americans (and politicians who the polls) don't want a mosque at Manhattan's Ground Zero.
An increasing percent believe the President is a Muslim.
Most Americans approve of Arizona's new law allowing police to stop anyone who looks Hispanic and demand proof of citizenship.
Most would deny citizenship to children born in the United States to parents who are here illegally.
Where is all this coming from?
It's called fear. When people are deeply anxious about holding on to their homes, their jobs, and their savings, they look for someone to blame. And all too often they find it in "the other" - in people who look or act differently, who come from foreign lands, who have what seem to be strange religions, who cross our borders illegally.
Americans who feel economically insecure may even become paranoid, believing, say, that the President of the United States is secretly one of "them."
Economic fear is the handmaiden of intolerance. It's used by demagogues who redirect the fear and anger toward people and groups who aren't really to blame but are easy scapegoats.
It has happened before.
Economic crises animated the pre-Civil War Know-Nothings and Anti-Masonic movements, the Chinese exclusion acts, the Ku Klux Klan in the economically-ravaged South, and the anti-immigrant movements of the early decades of the 20th century.
In different places around the world, mass economic stress has had far worse results. At its most extreme it has spawned genocide.
We are far from that. But it's important to understand the roots of America's growing intolerance. And to fight the hate-mongers and cynical opportunists who are using the fears unleashed by this awful economy to advance their own sordid agendas.

















Like the Nazis did in 1930s Germany with the Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, Communists, trade unionists...
C
August 25, 2010 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
This happens every election year, like clockwork.
The rich are able to get culture war issues in the news to mask their class war victories. The bigger their class war victories, the louder the culture war has to be.
When you enter the voting booth, Big Money wants you thinking about Islam, Muslims and the Mosque at ground zero, not about 20% unemployment rate, the collapse of the commercial economy and aggregate demand because the top .01% has sequestered a higher % of money than ever in the history of the republic, and in an abosolute sense, all of history, anywhere anytime.
Ignore the filthy rich behind the curtain, hate the phantom boogey-man.
This time of year, in an election year, you mysteriously have judges ruling on gay marriage, stem cell research, abortion, immigration, Islamophobia... etc...
Some how, the fact that the economy is collapsing for the average person, precisely because the rich were GIVEN TOO MUCH doesn't make the news.
Pity these stupid people or hate them, either one works. They are played like idiots by the uber-rich.
August 26, 2010 5:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Amen bro
August 26, 2010 7:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
A week after the election and none of these issue will be in the news.
Even the folks behind the Cordoba house know this.
They're riding things out and waiting to see what the environment is like after the election.
They know. One of the big owners of News Corp is a muslim. I'm sure he knows as well.
August 26, 2010 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Plus:
Wow! Misharacterizations like that harm your credibility.
August 26, 2010 8:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
The R's have two approaches to politics
1. IGMFY (whidh they don't like to play in the open), and
2. Be afraid, be VERY afraid.
August 26, 2010 8:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
"The rich are able to get culture war issues in the news to mask their class war victories. The bigger their class war victories, the louder the culture war has to be."
Simply profound....
And is there any doubt who owns our media, that they can determine that underlying propaganda?
Sans blogs, we would have no 4th Estate.
VIVA LA BLOGS!
August 26, 2010 9:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
See https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/woodsa/www/chart.html for a good sense of who owns what in the "media" these days.
August 26, 2010 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please define "the rich". I might be included in that category, but I don't know. I am definitely in the top 5%. And I agree with everything Robert Reich says.
August 26, 2010 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I meant the filthy rich. The pathological rich. They value money. They wake up in the morning and wonder how much they'll make that day. They check their accounts several times during the day and watch the markets several times during the day. They check their accounts before they go to bed.
I believe, that values are a middle class phenomina: the poor can't afford them, the rich don't need them.
Values are a manifestation of a conscience.
You can be rich and still be culturally middle class - in other words if you value something besides counting your winnings.
There are lots of rich people with middle class values. But they aren't negating the effect of the pathological rich who have no values.
Those people value nothing: not people, not god, not country, not culture, nothing but their personal wealth. They are the ones running things.
If you ran things, their wouldn't be any problems.
August 26, 2010 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you mean people like Soros, Lewis, the Kennedys, the Kerrys, the Clintons, the Gores, Oprah, Spielberg?
August 28, 2010 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
As Machiavelli advised "In the march from republic to tyranny, religion must be emphasized." Not only has the religious juggernaut been launched, what often follows its launch, blind devotion, seems to have also gripped the American psyche.
The political 'right-wing' is devoted to eliminating from the political scene any group threatening its newly acquired power. If successful we may find ourselves, for all practical purposes, living in a one-party political system - there lies tyranny.
August 26, 2010 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama staffed the 'bi-partisan' Social Security (cat food committee) with Alan "Homer" Simpson.
Seems to me we are already living in a one party state.
I blame Ralph Nader for aiding in the 2000 coup that took over our country, but he's right about one thing, the difference between the Dems and the Republicans is not big enough.
August 26, 2010 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is another factor in almost all the instances of intolerance you've mentioned - from formation of the Klan to anti-immigrant backlash today. That is a disconnect between government and governed. Americans no longer believe their government is looking out for them. No one is addressing their concerns or even speaking their language. Both parties are in the hands of the same people who've shoved Americans' home values underwater, who crap shoot away their futures and bleed them dry with corporate welfare. winx izle - kayu izle
January 24, 2011 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
My only comment is that none of this is new for the Republican party. That was the essence of the Southern Strategy - fear of whites' losing their privileged place. They've exploited workers' fear of losing their jobs to convince them that the cause of that fear is Affirmative Action or some other convenient bogeyman. They exploited it in the Red Scare of the 1950's. It's been their stock-in-trade for decades. And the reason is quite simple - their actual policies are staggeringly unpopular. If elections were actually referenda on their policy positions they'd get no more than 20% of the vote. So they've become experts in misdirection. And Democrats, with a few exceptions, have been abysmally bad at exposing their strategy and turning the discussion to their actual policies.
Democrats have to stop being polite. They need to call a spade a spade. This is why it's so refreshing to hear Alan Grayson or Joe Biden call them out on it in explicit terms. Democrats engage in long-winded explanations of why their policies are better. Republicans shout "Liar!" Which will people remember?
August 25, 2010 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let me go ahead and be really cynical.
The Republicans have effectively blocked anything that might stimulate the economy. Even when it's a tax break.
The Republicans have pursued this strategy because they are the minority, and they know the more unhappy the people are, the more likely they are to "throw the bums out".
But they can't be ignorant of the fact they they also play to the politics of fear much better than the Democratic.
So I'm presenting the cynical thesis that the Republicans are deliberately blocking anything that would stimulate the US economy with the intent of creating more fear, and uncertainty, which they can use to fire up their base.
There. I said it.
It's ugly. No human being with any self-respect would do such a thing. But I'm having trouble finding any other thesis which holds up.
August 26, 2010 1:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ya think?
August 26, 2010 4:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
hardly cynical, more like "perceptive..."
August 26, 2010 9:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
never forget, our wealthy class is always willing to lose some of their fortune in order to assure themselves a bigger percentage in the future.
They have so much more than enough, they can ride out any economic storm without ever going broke like they have forced so many middle-class and poor people to do. The rich migt have to give up a condo or a yacht in hard times, but they will always have their caviar and champagne.
Problem is, as they wait for that bigger share to materialize, the whole concept wealth can change, too, and their paper money, both the print version and the digital version, is subject to depreciation, possibly even collapse.
It is he old "guillotine" routine, you can only starve the common folks for so long until they come for your caviar. When money and bank balances are edible, then the wealthy might be safe from history's reliable retribution, but until you can eat a hundred dollar bill or dance a jig with your bottom line, that money, as a symbol rather than substance, will aways be subject to collapse.
Stop and ponder; is a bushel of wheat worth a few dollars, or is it worth a couple dozen loaves of bread? While it's monetary value is completely variable, it's practical value is static.
August 26, 2010 9:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly. Well and succinctly stated.
August 26, 2010 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree about getting down in the mud. At a certain point it becomes inevitable. Continuing to present facts, reason and attempt to have a respectful dialogue appears to be futile.
Dems/Liberals/Progressives/reasonable citizens (among whom I include some "traditional Republicans" continue to "beat one's head against the wall" by being civil. The upshot being that their positions/arguments are continually tarred with the most outrageous distortions and mischaracterizations. This just allows any attempt at civil solution to be farther and farther sidetracked.
August 26, 2010 9:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. I see the difference is that R politicians go by the letter of the law, whereas D politicians go by the *intent* of the law. Letter of the law works better every time.
August 26, 2010 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
While economic anxieties are at the heart of this, it also takes demagogues like Limbaugh, Beck, and the rest of the rightwing noise machine to feed this fear and provide targets for their unfocused anger. Anything to divert attention away from the real sources of their pain and suffering, the machinations of the rentier and managerial classes and the megacorporations.
August 25, 2010 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is another factor in almost all the instances of intolerance you've mentioned - from formation of the Klan to anti-immigrant backlash today. That is a disconnect between government and governed. Americans no longer believe their government is looking out for them. No one is addressing their concerns or even speaking their language. Both parties are in the hands of the same people who've shoved Americans' home values underwater, who crap shoot away their futures and bleed them dry with corporate welfare.
Afraid? Paranoid? Very.
The modern American media insists we bury our true feelings and spout politically correct gibberish. Our feelings aren't our own, and everything is wrong about them. Our new, astringent social etiquette has damned us to dishonesty or silence. We cannot dump the incessant sanctimony of the thought police from our heads. The repellent codes we must follow are driving us crazy.
America's scribes, who record more their own arrogant dismissal of Americans than our genuine record, will condemn us out of hand and out of context. We will be portrayed as raving, panicky sheep - fearful of everything and nothing.
In truth, we have plenty of which to be afraid. You want Americans to be kinder and gentler? Less "intolerant"? The powers that be could begin by treating Americans a little kindler, gentler.
They won't. And here's the crazy part: They'll NEVER be blamed for whatever is spawned.
August 25, 2010 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Odd, when Bush was starting wars and entertaining his supporters by blowing up Muslims on the other side of the world there was no complaints from the soon to be 'teabaggers' crowd about Americans no longer believing their government .....(and) no one ... addressing their concerns or even speaking their language...
It seems there might be something else involved, like demagogues using hate and intolerance to incite fear for partisan gain.
August 25, 2010 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I recall, someone was going to undo all the Bush mistakes. He has had two years to work his magic.
Oh, and thank you so much for all you very common sense.
August 26, 2010 1:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
"As I recall, someone was going to undo all the Bush mistakes."
You mean Jesus?
Certainly no sane person ever imagined that Obama could undo Bush mistakes, the damage caused by that era of corporate control will never be repaired, we can only learn to live with some of it.
I don;t know who told you Obama was going to fix the Bushmess, one of the reasons people are so depressed is that we see how irreversible so much of what happened then really is.
As I recall, someone was going to undo all the Bush mistakes."
Sounds like right wing propaganda to me.
August 26, 2010 9:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
You certainly don't recall very well what Obama said he was going to do.
As so many did, you projected onto Obama what you wanted to.
You'd have been better off listening to his words, and reading his material.
If you had, you'd realize he's doing a much better job than most past presidents as far as sticking to the agenda he campaigned on goes.
August 26, 2010 6:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the most fearful are the people who bought into the republican economical ideology the last several decades and then it failed. They are having a hard time admitting and accepting that they were wrong. Their minds say, to protect them from that pain' "that it couldn't be the republican ideology it has to be something else."
August 25, 2010 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent observation, Momoe.
August 25, 2010 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think that you're giving the Man in the Street too much credit. The fact of the matter is that you don't have to be smart or well-educated or some sort of "liberal elite" to realize what's been going on for the last thirty years; the bar for this sort of thing is set so low that you'd have to be either literally or willfully blind to not realize what's been happening.
No, these guys know what's going on all right. But the thing is, they've got no spine and no stomach. They don't want to take on the big guys because they're scared to death of them, and terrified of the consequences.
So to save face, they pretend not to get it, and attack a safe target instead, like illegal immigrants or nonchristians, or ethnic minorities. This is justifiable in their minds in part because the other war, the real war, the class war, is just plain unwinnable. So why take your lumps if you're not going to get anything for it (it's not a coincidence that their lack of backbone is coupled with a dingy set of morals.)
So the problem here isn't that you've got to dehypnotize a bunch of programmed sheep with Knowledge; the problem is (much more depressingly, and also intractably) that you're dealing with a bunch of small-minded cowards.
Sorry to have to tell you this, but them's the facts.
August 25, 2010 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Their minds say"!?
If you where paying attention or in the real estate industry you would have no question what caused this 'over the falls in slow motion'. Long story short: Fannie, Freedie and 5 unions pension funds all withdrawing billions on the same day.
These were not Republican run monsters but Democrat zombies looking for (a) blood. And they got one, sort of.
August 26, 2010 1:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're saying that Unions, Fannie and Freddy were responsible for everything?
Including the Bush deficit?
Instead of just concentrating n what's convenient, why don't you ask people whoa actually study the big picture - like economists?
Though I guess because they don't share your prejudices, they weren't "paying attention".
Next you'll be saying that because Billo screamed at Barney Frank, he knows more about the economy than Paul Krugman.
August 26, 2010 2:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Anatomy of intolerance is ably highlighted today by Matt Bai in the New York Times on the left-wingers' attitudes to the clear and obvious problem we have with Social Security.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/us/politics/26bai.html?_r=1&hp
August 25, 2010 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Off subject you loon, this is not a thread on Social Security reform.
August 25, 2010 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, it's about intolerance. Fear is only of the factors that can cause intolerance. Dogma is another.
August 25, 2010 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
afraid to talk social security in a thread where it's actually being discussed by people who know what they're talking about?
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/24/tweak_this/
August 25, 2010 8:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
It takes a special kind of idiot to equate a politician taking heat for supporting a policy position unpopular with his constituents or colleagues with the kind of animus that results in lynching, beatings, pogroms, ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Curious that the dogma you chose to illustrate your point was not the dogma that led a person to kill Dr. George Tiller.
Or the economic policy dogma that crashed our economy.
Show me one person who took a physical beating because they really wanted to cut social security benefits by 5%. Just one.
August 25, 2010 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's like the bully Dr. Laura whining about the loss of her First Amendment rights when the marketplace so beloved by conservatives spoke and several advertisers pulled out of her show, the show she was going to quit soon anyway. What to do? Blame the liberals who complained to the advertisers.
August 26, 2010 12:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nope she will just find another job!
August 26, 2010 6:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
What problem? A lack of understanding?
file:///Users/stevefausek/Documents/Politics/Economics/Social%20security%20insolvency%20101.webarchive
"National social security systems can never become insolvent if the government has sovereignty in its own currency. Further, the pursuit of budget surpluses as a means of accumulating ‘future public spending capacity’ undermines the capacity of the economy to provide the resources that may be necessary in the future to provide real goods and services of a particular composition desirable to an ageing population."
August 25, 2010 11:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Durn links! Sorry about that.
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=749
August 25, 2010 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eh?
You do realize that( social security is fully funded, and is not contributing to the deficit one cent?
The only hate rhetoric and fear mongering I see being ginned up over social security is coming from the right.
And anyway: when has the social security debate resulted in violence?
Oh that's right: simpletons only see things in purely black and white terms. No nuance allowed - nuance is only for liberal elites, apparently.
As is thinking, it seems.
Call me a liberal elite if that's the label I need in order for me to be able to see beyond your simplistic non-reasoning.
August 26, 2010 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Republicans are users, they used 9/11, they used war, and they use Muslims, illegal immigrants, Hispanics, economic insecurity, ignorance, the reproductive tracts of women, gay rights as tools for distraction, targets for channeling hate, and finally for partisan gain.
Nowhere in their schemes are there any solutions to solve the nation's problems, the GOP has no intent to do any such thing.
Solving problems would remove them from the list of issues to exploit. That cannot be done. It would be counter-productive to the future of the GOP.
August 25, 2010 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
"...gay rights as tools for distraction, targets for channeling hate, and finally for partisan gain."
And of course one of their past leaders Ken Mehlman comes out as gay.
August 25, 2010 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly, the tools of hate, fear and division are there to be used for personal and partisan gain.
They are not core beliefs. The one and only core belief for the GOP is win at any cost, there are no other principles.
That is why a Republican can loudly proclaim anti-gay rights legislation, or vote to deny rights to raped women, while being gay himself, or paying for his own mistresses or daughter's abortion. His life, and his public positions, are separate and exclusive, representing pure unadulterated hypocrisy.
August 25, 2010 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Short version: A Republican's life is not for you to judge, but they have the right to tell you how to live (and use the gov't to enforce it on you!). They alone have rights, you do not.
August 25, 2010 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
To be honest about this, Joe Public, who votes Republican every election, isn't the one who is manipulating people. He is the one who is being manipulated. Those at the top are only Republicans because they chose that party as their own. Those people care about nothing except hoarding money. If they have to cause the deaths and incite terror against other citizens to help them in their quest for money, that doesn't bother them a bit.
That class of people is a large one, extending to virtually the entire "financial sector" of the economy and much of the health care field. They are the ones behind the hate mongering. Their bought and paid for politicians are mere stooges, good only for what they pay them to do. Ronnie Raygun said it was ok to be that way, and they really believed Ronnie.
August 25, 2010 10:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Newt in a nutshell. "It doesn't matter how I live, it's what I have to say that's important"
August 26, 2010 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tolerance:
http://www.mynorthwest.com/category/local_news_articles/20100803/RepublicansAreADisease.com-target-Bothell-couple/
August 25, 2010 7:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
link spam.
August 25, 2010 8:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
One guy takes a beating, gets stabbed, or has a mob run him out of town, the other gets his yard sign replaced by an aging hippie.
Well blow me over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o76WQzVJ434
August 25, 2010 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, you obviously don't appreciate how painful and traumatic it is to have someone trash your yard signs! It is so totally like having someone pull a knife and try to slit your throat!
August 26, 2010 4:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, maybe if they trample on the flowers to get to the sign. I see your point.
August 26, 2010 7:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing new about the divide-and-rule modus operandi of the crypto-fascist Republican Party. I can remember my elementary school days in the 1950s when the Eisenhower/McCarthy Republicans forcibly turned an already obnoxious little loyalty oath into a constitutionally prohibited school prayer. Later in life I found a way to characterize this viral mind-poison in verse. Call this one:
"The Boobie Pledge of Subservience"
I offer my obedience
I pledge undying love
To any symbol formed to serve
The needs of those above
Who rightly feel that I deserve
The fist inside the glove
I stand and mumble publicly
With fear upon my brow
Lest some mistake my silence for
An insufficient vow
Let all who see and hear me know
How easily I cow
Authority need never fear
I swear I know my place
I pledge to take the gauntlet slapped
Across my beaten face
The seizure class knows I'll accept
Chastisement with good grace
About such things as freedom, I
Have not the slightest clue
By birth and class it's come to THEM
I know that it's THEIR due
To hand me down instructions as
To just what I must do
And so I promise faithfully
To play my scripted part
Each day I'll chant Two Minutes' Hate
To finish, from the start
Until I love Big Brother from
The bottom of my heart
I swear to do as I am told
I will not think too deep
I'll huddle in conformity
Just like the other sheep
To take my whipping like a slave
And utter not a peep
I pledge to stand up every day
Within my schoolroom class
And mouth my mantras on demand
Without backtalk or sass
Until the program makes me a
Compliant, docile ass
I swear upon my loyalty
To stuff my head with fat
And place my nation "under" "GAWD!"
Supinely prone and flat
With me then going "down" "beneath"
And "lower" "under" that
I swear to go to Sunday School
Upon the public dime
Each morning in my homeroom class
I'll mouth my dreary rhyme
And if I leave out words
THEY can Indict me for my crime
I pledge and vow and promise that
I'll swear from dusk to dawn
And never fail to chant or moan;
To never blink or yawn
And with each cry of "GAWD IZ GRATE!"
My own soul I will pawn
The Papal bulls and fatwas tell
Me all I need to know
Which isn't much because I see
I've nowhere left to go
I swear to never set my sails
Against the winds that blow
The Popes, Imams, and Rabbis tell
Me what and where and how
The master's overseer tells
Me which row I must plow;
To toady, genuflect, and crawl;
To grovel, scrape and bow
I'll train to "hurry up and wait"
And do the Bulgar drills
To stand at rapt attention dressed
In military frills
Just point me and I'll drop the bomb
No matter whom it kills
I pledge and promise on my word
To do the things I ought
To work for lower wages
So my labor comes to naught
I swear to vote Republican
To prove I can be bought
The Party keeps us all at war
Which makes us quake with fear
And so we give up all those rights
Our ancestors held dear
Which saves our enemies the need
To take them from us here
But I won't think of bygone days
The past I'll just rewrite
I'll call my history "old news"
To make it pat and trite
Which sleight of mind will help me keep
Its lessons out of sight
With this capitulation I
Agree to sell my pride
Before I even own it or
It grows too big to slide
Inside the shabby, craven cave
In which I must reside
Michael Murry, "The Misfortune Teller," Copyright 2005
August 25, 2010 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
How did the cave get to be so cowardly? Must have been mistreated as a child.
August 26, 2010 3:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
This deserves its own post, Michael Murry. Please post it, or I will (giving you full credit, of course).
A treasure, this.
Reminds me of the first and second time I watched the film "V, for Vendetta". A must-see, btw.
August 27, 2010 12:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
NEW YORK — A college student who did volunteer work in Afghanistan was charged Wednesday with using a folding tool to slash the neck and face of a New York City taxi driver after the driver said he is Muslim.
A criminal complaint alleged that Michael Enright uttered an Arabic greeting and told the victim, "Consider this a checkpoint," before the brutal bias attack occurred Tuesday night inside the yellow cab on Manhattan's East Side. Police say Enright was drunk at the time.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/25/michael-enright-stabbed-c_n_694285.html
August 25, 2010 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
The victim is reported to have said that his assailant was securing a checkpoint before the king of Saudi Arabia arrived at it. Apparently, he perceived the victim as a significant threat to the king's safety and sought to eliminate the threat.
The attack doesn't seem to be the result of sound thinking, but it also doesn't seem to be an attack motivated by bias.
August 26, 2010 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is coming from the belief that needs of the many out way the needs of the few, the many believe Ground Zero is halo ground that should not be disrespected by the few who would force their immigrant culture and religious beliefs are the many. The few are resisting efforts by the many to assimilate into the national culture and is disrespecting the wishes of the many. The few could easily accommodate the wishes of the many without giving up any constitutional rights or liberties but choose to be disrespectful and intolerant of the many. The idea of when in Roman do as the Romans do is rejected by the few that freely come to the land of the many.
This is coming from President Obama’s ambiguity on his origin of birth; Obama could have complied with Democrat Phillip Berg’s suit to produce documents to prove his eligibility to be president. Answering that suit would have cleared any ambiguity of his citizenship or religious background but Obama chose to stonewall and refuse to answer complaints regarding or concerning his background or citizenship in a court of law. Obama’s father was a Muslim and by Islamic traditions a son is consider Muslim if the father is Muslim, the majority of Muslim world sees Obama as a Muslim. The fact “Barry Soetoro” went to a Muslim school in Indonesia as a child confuses some people. Obama has sealed his college records that may or may not reveal he was a Muslim in Indonesia. Obama said he found Christ (his words) in Jeremiah Wright’s Church. Liberation theology seems very odd to most Americans and don’t recognized it as Christian doctrine.
I personally think he is a Christian that most Christians don't recognize.
I don’t know of any AZ Law that allows police to stop anyone who looks Hispanic to demand proof of citizenship.
SB 1070 does allow local law enforcement on routine traffic stops to ask for proof of citizenship or to be turned over to ICE if the driver does not provide a proper driver’s license, registration or proof of insurance.
Misrepresenting the AZ Law does not help your cause Mr. Reich.
This coming from the proper reading and understanding of the 14th Amendment itself, if anyone says the original intent of the 14th Amendment was to give birthright citizenship to the children of illegal aliens they are lying.
ludicrous to suggest our 14th Amendment that mentions a legal naturalization process to become a citizen would also give citizenship rights to a group of people that did not follow the same legal naturalized process to become a citizen to begin with!
The 14th Amendment’s intent was directed at Freed Slaves and to overturn the Dred Scott decision, not to give “Anchor Babies” citizenship rights. Not acknowledging this commonly known fact about the 14th Amendment is very disingenuous and misleading by the author, it shows how his dogma gets in the way of established history.
The truth is Progressives need “Anchor Babies” to continue their slight advantages at voting booth. When these “Anchor Babies” have finally come to voting age, you all know full well they will not vote for a party that wants to deport their parents back to their countries of origin or deny their parents citizenship rights.
It’s very dangerous for this nation to have people that have come to this country illegally determining the outcome of our elections and it’s just as dangerous to have their children deciding the fate of this nation!
August 25, 2010 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Its 'out weigh' not 'out way', and its hallowed ground, not 'halo ground'.
I guess watching Glenn Beck every night does little to improve your vocabulary, or, from your imbecilic preaching, imbue in you any decency or common sense.
August 25, 2010 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for the corrections, but where is my 'common sense' lacking in my above post?
Or are you just so use to disagreeing with me it's common nature for you to do so?
August 25, 2010 10:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Used to disagreeing with you? That would be anyone who can think, right?
Lying over and over again will never help your credibility. Then again, if you were capable of understanding that, you wouldn't care anyway. Because you use lying as a tactic.
For grins, I will address one of your common sense failures: If an Arizona law enforcement officer wants to, he will find an excuse to ask for papers. It is not only during "routine traffic stops" that this is allowed, as you so disingenuously assert. Or perhaps you are NOT being disingenuous. After all, you repeatedly demonstrate how stupid you are. Maybe you actually believe the propaganda.
But anyway, any law officer at any time in any place can come up with an excuse to ask a brown person to display papers. Your pretense otherwise is a lie. A lie being told by you with malice aforethought, or a lie that was told to you, and is being repeated by you due to your stupidity.
As usual, not even a nice try.
August 25, 2010 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Given all the other ignorant nonsense s/he spews, it's clear s/he has not bothered to understand the legislation passed - apparently"during lawful contact" means ONLY during traffic stops. Which, in reality land, are already a source of perfectly legal Americans who happen to be Hispanic being arrested simply because they don't have ID on them.
They don't need a new law - they are already getting a pass abusing the current ones.
But hey - the right wing perceive all Hispanics as the enemy, apparently - so, just like it's OK to kidnap and torture Afghani farmers simply because they're Muslim, it's just fine to arrest and incarcerate Americans of Hispanic descent - simply because they're not white.
These fools actually believe themselves to be guardians of the constitution, for goodness sake.
that so many of them call themselves Christian.
It's just as bizarre.
August 26, 2010 12:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm surprised Dug didn't warn us again that he won't tolerate responses he thinks are impolite.
August 26, 2010 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Before the dawn breaks you shall tell 3 lies.
August 26, 2010 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
More childish nonsense.
August 26, 2010 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
I answered one of your "arguments." You responded with nonsense.
Is this stupidity? I don't think so. I think it is cowardice.
When face with fact, logic, and reason, you run away. Because you know that you have no chance when your lies are all you have to back up your nonsense. Because you are a sniveling coward.
August 26, 2010 1:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
hhmmmmm.
Maybe because you seem to be suggesting that among other bizarre and hate-ridden nonsense: all Muslims are responsible for 911, that the fact that Muslims want a mosque to pray in, they want to shove their religion down your throat; Obama is seen as a Muslim(by childish idiots who fear anything that's not of their own culture, just as children don't like their greens) because he's not responding to every single conspiracy theory leveled against him - and that his birth certificate is not legitimate. In other words: you're a birther, and it's Obama's fault because he's not answering your phone calls.
For goodness' sake - I could go on and on and on - but you've made it clear there would be no point, as pretty much every line you have written is borne of ignorant anti-American hate, paranoia and conspiracy theories that has become so rampant on the right.
You have chosen to accept that the worst of human nature is what you want to be about. Fine.
Go join Bin Laden - he also hates religious tolerance, reality and freedom.
August 26, 2010 12:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
“Pretty please beg me, pretty please beg me!” – Crash Davis
For a conservative to ask for fact-based argument is amusing, but I’m happy to oblige out of sheer boredom. Don’t expect a spirited exchange, however, as you seem like someone I really don’t want to spend time with.
There’s a lot in your comments throughout that pertains to economic matters, though this thread and the article are actually about the human divisions that are mother’s milk to today’s Cro Magnum Republican. Let’s first put everything you say in context: I’ve dealt with conservatives like you for decades, you spin a nice yarn that seems to be fact-driven simply because you can cite a few sources and mischaracterize their relevance and application. That’s OK, though; it’s the kind of skill that keeps trial lawyers employed. It’s unfortunate because there are a lot of true conservative positions that I could embrace, if the ideology didn’t also require buy-in to bigotry, xenophobia and gay-bashing. Tedious as this will be, I feel compelled to go item by item on what appears to be your first post in this sequence.
“Needs of the many”?? What malarkey! The whole point of the Bill of Rights is individual liberty with states’ rights thrown into the mix with a truism at item #10. The entire purpose of the First Amendment is to protect speech that is unpopular, especially to “the many.” It was nauseatingly common to see conservative pundits and papers back-handedly “support” the right of those who opposed the invasion of Iraq to voice their opinion while sagely pointing out that those living under Saddam Hussein did not enjoy the same rights, therefore shut up and get out of the way. Therefore, launch the invasion, Q.E.D. The same goes for freedom of religion – observance (and NON observance) is a sidestep away from free speech and your argument is that adherents of one of the three major branches of the Abrahamic religions should back off building a community center near Ground Zero (and an existing mosque, by the way) because it makes “the many” uncomfortable. And while you are at it, you’d like to throw away the 10th Amendment and the freedom to contract, truly “hallowed grounds” for conservatives, for the same reason. Your rationales are not. This entire shameful episode is all a charade to whip up the base and sway independents as Afro-bashing and gay-bashing and Mexi-bashing no longer have the same appeal. Sad to say, it’s working because the GOP always benefits from fear.
As for any ambiguity about Mr. Obama’s citizenship and religion, those ambiguities were introduced and prosecuted by conservatives though they have widely been repudiated – you’re a smart guy, do your own research on this. It’s another common conservative rhetorical tactic to keep asking a question over and over and over so as to drown out the answer and give the question primacy and a life of its own. This is a tactic in the same team picture with The Big Lie. It amazes me that your ilk will just as joyfully link Mr. Obama to an unpopular Christian pastor as the increasingly unpopular Muslim religion. One lie to a customer, please. And by the way, if you want some ambiguity, we all know Bush and Cheney were from the same state and Cheney’s relocation to Wyoming was the kind of scam that couldn’t get him residency tuition at a state college. Take Texas out of the electoral map, as it should have been, and Florida can hang all the chads it wants; Al Gore is president.
On Arizona’s immigration law, this is all about the Supremacy Clause. Immigration is the domain of the federal government, like it or not. If Mr. Reich or others on the left mischaracterize the law, it’s far more significant that Arizonans have mischaracterized the problem. Local police actually do have powers to include citizenship status in their investigations but the police need to be enforcing something over which they have jurisdiction in the first place. Meanwhile, the agribusiness of this country, including corporate farmers and family farmers, would scream bloody murder if they had to pay a living wage to farm workers. This is rock-rib Republican territory, so once again, it’s conservative duality at its best/worst.
Funny thing – I agree with those who believe the concept of “natural born” as it relates to citizenship needs rethinking. That language was written when the population of the U.S. was a thinly spread seven million plus and we were begging for bodies. That’s more a question of pragmatism, however, than “danger” and when you posit the issue of natural born citizenship as one of extreme risk you betray your true colors (insert pun here). There are a lot of practicalities within the 27 Amendments. Me, I’d like the liberals to open their minds to the fact that there is nothing holy about the natural-born clause and that it has been subject to interpretation over the years – but not because brown=danger.
Finally, you actually trod out on the thin ice of economic policy. How about we again place this all in context with incontrovertible facts: On George W. Bush’s watch, with a combination of a GOP-controlled congress or a pliant Democratic Senate, $40 trillion dollars of global wealth vanished leaving a cataclysmic financial vacuum. Ten years of job growth did the same. Federal intervention by Bush and Obama kept the job losses from doubling and causing a Greater Depression (a shame in a way; you and I would have had our homelessness as a mutual bond). I’ve heard conservatives “blame Barney” and even cast blame on Jimmy Carter (wow, he must have been REALLY effective!) but the truth is, the deregulation mania that began to gain official sanction under Reagan and shot off the charts with Bush the Lesser is at the heart of our economic disaster.
There are many, many culprits but if you’d like to know who and what I believe to be the central players, I side with the numerous experts who have actually studied the problem (again, do your own research smarty pants) not studied ways to make Democrats look culpable. During the time when Fanny and Freddie were being massively mismanaged and helping to make the American Dream of owning a home far more possible than it is today, I didn’t hear too many complaints from conservatives. I seem to remember quite clearly Bush Lite praising our “ownership society.” Well and good. But it all proceeded from the idea that home values could never decline or at least not enough to undermine the “creative” financial instruments that arose in the unregulated Investment Banking environment.
Well, aren’t there a lot of economists with egg on their face now! Even that would not have been a big deal, but for the FACT (“Facts are stubborn things” – Ronald Reagan) that under Bush II, the SEC allowed investment banks to leverage their debt-to-equity by a 40 to 1ratio (FACT: A standard American Roulette wheel has a 37-1 ratio of losing numbers to the lone winning number on every spin). So the investment bankers invented the Collateralized Debt Obligation, a new form of security, this CDO, which would dissipate the risk of failed mortgages so far among investors that no one would be hurt by a decline in home values. Americans used their houses and skyrocketing property values as banks, and laissez les bon temps roullez!
Except there was a downturn, and a very, very bad one. No problem. The CDOs are insured. By AIG (FACT: Insurance companies are historically regulated at the state level, and state regulators are easily overwhelmed by conglomerates like AIG) and OOPS! Inadequate reserves!
That’s OK. Those folks who were stupid enough to trust investment bankers (I’ve known some of these guys and I wouldn’t let them walk my dog) would lose their shirts but everything else would be OK because of the resiliency of our financial system. Except for one thing: The final vestige of separation between banking and investment banking was removed by the passage of HR 10, signed into law by Bill Clinton in 1999 (FACT: HR 10 was the brainchild of Republican Phil Graham; FACT: One of the greatest personal beneficiaries of HR 10, John Reed, former Chairman of Citicorp and co-chairman of Citigroup, which lobbied aggressively for HR 10 to legalize the Citicorp-Travelers merger after-the-fact, earlier this year repudiated HR 10 and actually apologized for his role in its passage).
So, to sum: Imprudent real estate loans, aided and abetted by Fanny and Freddy and silly-ass banks, leveraged as securities by investment bankers, turned into a ridiculous gamble by the Bush SEC, uninsured by a virtually unregulated insurance market, turned into a collapse that threatened money itself.
And now we’re all in the soup.
I’ll give you credit for this: You spin a good yarn. A while ago I posted without comment Nelson Rockefeller’s address to the 1964 GOP Convention. He tried to get conservatives to understand that the original fear monger, Barry Goldwater, was hijacking the conservative movement and was booed off the stage. Then, irony of ironies, as the neoconservatives emerged, Goldwater himself repudiated where the conservative movement he started had ended up. Now, the “conservative conscience” is embodied in … wait for it … Pat Buchanan. W the T and the F??
If you don't like generalizations about conservatives, let's see more of them come out and say some simple things like, oh I dunno, "The Confederacy should not be celebrated" or "Secession is not an option" or "Stop hating Muslims!" - hard for me to see those as anything but no-brainers. Your kind needs to promote to the masses someone to hate, someone to be a traitor, someone to be a threat. This is truly a dangerous world my friend, but I’ve been done far more harm by rich white guys than poor brown guys, and whether you want to admit it or not, the same is true for you. You can dress up your ideas nicely and take them out on the town, and what you lack in legitimacy you make up for in hate and fear, but that doesn’t make you right.
Someday, America will grow up and see that. Now go get your shine box and let the grownups talk.
August 26, 2010 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you feel better now that you data dumped all that progressive propaganda and conjecture into that little text box area of this web page?
By the tone of your post you must have been constipated for weeks. Holding back all of that crap...digesting my post must have been like eating EXLAX to you! I'm glad your sphincter has relaxed because for a moment there I thought your head might explode and I wouldn't want you to blow your brains out on my account. It's obvious you you have been indoctrinated by the progressive propaganda machine...at sometime during your indoctrination experience you must have rebelled and thought...
...this crap [whatever your liberal professors were feeding you that day] is so freaking illogical and defies the principles of common sense, how can this morons expect us to accept this nonsense? But the quest for GOOD GRADES overcame you natural born common sense, thus you became just another indoctrinated progressive thrown loose on conservative society and bent on undermining our republican form of government.
Maybe your common sense will return some day (but not today) and "Peripeteia" will set in and then you will realize most of want you thought to be true is false.
So I take joy in knowing I have helped you back on the correct path to regain your common sense. You can thank me later when peripeteia actually sets in....your not there yet but I sense it's coming sooner than you may realize...ha...ha!
Oh, by the way nice post!
Even tho I don't agree with 99% of it at least you made an honest effort in explaining your retort and that is far more than most of these seditious progressives bastards can seem to muster.
August 26, 2010 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, when a guy is 100% wrong and deeply committed to that course, it's hard to agree with even 1% of the truth so I'll take that as a victory for the enlightenment of the species. You've taken the first step to rational thought.
And by the way, I marvel at how you can implicitly take credit for arriving at your positions independently when you so freely parrot the shared talking points of the discredited among us.
OK - I lied, I stepped up to a little bit of an "exchange" but only to tell you I know your kind and I know your tricks. Once Muslimania starts to wear off, you better hope for proof of life on another planet, bud, because I don't know where you go from here to gin up the fear you need to prop up your false idols.
But that's all. You bore me.
August 26, 2010 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's obvious your a tool of the progressive propaganda machine and to say....
...demonstrates your ignorance of Islam, Islam has at war with the non-Muslim world since 632 AD and this war will not stop until the whole world is under Sharia Law according Islamic doctrine of course.
This is nothing 'DugFmJamul' has "gin up"!
August 26, 2010 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent post Doc.
As you are aware, you are talking to a guy (Dug) who doesn't know the difference between reality and make believe, not to mention between 'your' and 'you're' ('your a tool'), and who, like most from the GOP echo chamber, think they are the smartest species on the planet, because Glenn Beck makes so much sense to them.
Your synopsis of the events leading to the economic collapse was appreciated.
August 26, 2010 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just wanted to put a penny in his hat to watch him dance.
August 26, 2010 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
"who doesn't know the difference between reality and make believe", oh really what is the color of red?
August 26, 2010 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sadly predictable childish nonsense
August 26, 2010 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow Doc, I am thoroughly impressed by your knowledge on the financial crisis. Many Americans know that there's a crisis, but not so many have really taken the time to look at how and when everything went wrong. The financial crisis at its core was able to happen because of lack of regulation, but you really broke down nearly each portion of the financial crisis, which takes a lot of time, and a lot of space. I want to share two links with all of you. The links go to a radio show that some of you are likely familiar with called "This American Life," which did a two-part series on the financial/housing crisis in America. It doesn't take a political angle, but gives information and interviews that tie all of the financial crisis pieces together.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=355
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=365
Dug will likely not listen to the entire programs because he doesn't really want to know, and especially to have to hear it from the mouths of those who were raking in the money because of deregulation, I wouldn't count on it.
It is important that as individuals, we use "credible" sources to get our information, and we should be able to check facts, and double check facts to insure that we have it right. It is absolutely, unequivocally true that both Bush Jr, and Obama HAD to bail out companies, or an unimaginable amount of Americans would have lost their jobs, and due to globalization I'm sure that our problems would have had an enormous impact on several other countries as well. We should be grateful that, although we had to pay for other companies irresponsibility (I get it, it makes me upset too), we would have been at the very least back to 1929/1930 if we let all of those companies fail. It's simple logic, all of the giant companies fail, and all of the giant companies cannot buy from the smaller companies, and so on and so forth.
August 28, 2010 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gotta love your 'Anchor babies' conspiracy theory. OOOOOHH, yeah: we need their votes. That's what it's all about.
Just BIIIZZZZAAARRREE.
August 26, 2010 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
IF YOU ONLY HAVE A BRAIN!
You could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And Your head you'd be scratchin'
While your thoughts were busy hatchin'
If YOU only had a brain
You unravel any riddle
For any individ'le
In trouble or in pain
(farnsworth)
With the thoughts you'd be thinkin'
You could be another Lincoln
If YOU only had a brain
Oh, can tell you me why
The ocean's near the shore
You could think of things you never thunk before
And then you'd sit and think some more
You would not be just a nuffin'
Your head all full of stuffin'
Your heart all full of pain
You would dance and be merry
Life would be a ding-a-derry
If YOU only had a brain
August 26, 2010 12:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
The childishness continues.
You obviously have no intent to debate within actual reality, so this is what you turn to.
How utterly pathetic - if rather predictable.
August 26, 2010 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your not worthy of debate.
August 26, 2010 12:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Surprise, surprise.
More predictable childishness.
August 26, 2010 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Your not worthy of debate."
This is just code for, "I am too stupid to debate you."
Was this one of my three lies, moran?
August 26, 2010 1:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is Dug a semi-literate All-American wingnut, or a foreigner who's just a bit short on the English?
August 26, 2010 9:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know, JEP07, he did, after all, alert me to the fact of Muslim conquests in 632 AD place us Eurotrash descendants at continued risk. Knowing that the "seeds of Saladin" are in the counter guy at 7-11 I've redoubled the guard on my dining room set.
August 26, 2010 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good question about DugJamul. The 'about' on 'his website' listed at his profile on TPM cafe:
Jamulian Home Web Projects, LLC
ATTN: Douglas Lindsey
P.O. BOX 121
JAMUL , CA 91935
He says he is a conservative Republican, so I would go with the the former: a semi-literate All-American wingnut.
I guess it also means you don't need to have gotten a 'B' in high school English to have your own Home Website LLC.
August 26, 2010 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
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August 25, 2010 9:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are very rare circumstances in which something should trump the constitution, but I think this is one of those cases. The principle of 'coexistence' has been applied blindly. Yes, I am liberal, I am progressive, I believe in freedom of religion and coexistence, but Ground Zero is a memorial, it should not become a poster for coexistence. The wounds of 9/11 are still so raw for many and this just seems like a forced and inappropriate proposition.
What this issue comes down to is two constituencies, the families of 9/11 victims and the Muslims who are trying to build Park51, and which consistence is allowed more "choosing power". I think the 9/11 victims' families have the right to decide on this issue themselves, they were asked for their opinions on the memorial, and the fact that the cultural center directly overlooks Ground Zero is another reason that they should be allowed to make a decision themselves.
It is not a sign of bigotry to ask them to build the mosque in a different location, all it is is a recognition of the unspeakable act that happened so close to the proposed location, and the significance and speciality it represents.
August 26, 2010 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
First of all, 9/11 families are pretty split on this. Just today a lot of them came out in support of it.
Second, it does not directly overlook Ground Zero, it's two blocks away and faces in the opposite direction.
Third, why should Muslims who had nothing to do with 9/11 be punished for the actions of people they never knew nor agree with?
It is bigotry to ask them to move because they had nothing to do with 9/11.
August 26, 2010 12:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
BRAVO ZULU, nice post..
August 26, 2010 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
HOOORRRAAAHHH for hate and intolerance, right kiddo?
August 26, 2010 12:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
What makes it a "memorial" -- that is, a construction which is intended to remind present generations and instruct future generations of something.* Of what are we supposed to be reminded or instructed?
Governmental incompetence? The hazards of being in the wrong place at the wrong time? What?
* The 9/11 families, all of whom were directly affected, don't need any goads to memory in order to remember that event.
August 26, 2010 1:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know your argument is illogical and ill-founded when DugFmJamal thinks it is well done.
August 26, 2010 1:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
How often do you allow your principles to be 'trumped'?
You have to realize that this whole controversy was also invented to paint our president into a corner - if he waffles, he's perceived as an unprincipled man; if he doesn't waffle, he's a secret Muslim. Most of this country is too ignorant to spot the obvious ploy.
As Jon Stewart pointed out, should Columbine have trumped the NRA's ability to run a gun-show/convention in the same area just a couple weeks later?
I'm curious as to hown far away would be an acceptable distance for a Muslim community center, to those people who don't live there or even understand what is visible from the real Ground Zero.
And why is not distasteful to the 'families' for there to be daily Muslim prayer sessions at the Pentagon?
August 26, 2010 1:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the 9/11 victims' families have the right to decide on this issue themselves...
What in God's name gives them (or any other private citizen) the "right" to decide what other people can do with their own property?
If this is such holy ground, why is it OK for there to be a Chinese business and cultural center right on the site (at One World Trade Center), but it is not OK to have an Islamic community center two blocks away on a parcel that is not even part of the WTC site?
Shopping malls on the WTC property are sufficiently reverent, but a center with prayer rooms two blocks away from the site's closest edge and out of sight of it is not?
Here is what is in the vicinity of the WTC. Tell me how these are appropriate and the community center is not.
August 26, 2010 5:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ground zero will have a memorial, but Ground Zero is NOT a memorial. It is the center of New York City for goodness sake - with businesses and churches and synagogues and mosques and parks and memorials and houses and squares - and people of all cultures, religions and colors.
If you want to enable the curtailing of a certain religions' freedoms, then you are opening the door for future people to do the same to other cultures and religions.
Right on ground zero, as we speak, plans are being made for a huge commercial building to be built. That huge building will have a large building where thousands of businesses will operate and interact. Are you saying you want that scrapped so the ENTIRE site can be a memorial? SERIOUSLY?
Meanwhile 2 1/2 blocks away, there will be another mosque built yes, but the building itself is not a mosque - it will be in a medium sized projected currently named park 51. It, too, will have businesses of all types, also a gymnasium, crèche, cafes and all sorts of amenities.
Currently, there's a mosque 80 yards away from ground zero.
The new Park 51 building will have all sorts of facilities in it - the mosque part will be a tiny part of it. Currently, the old Coat Factory building is already being used for worship.
Besides all that: how can any liberal blame all of Islam for 9/11?
As for your silly suggestion: if you want to put the approval of that community center in the hands of the families of those who died on 9/11, then you must put ALL planning in that area in their hands.
Or are you only interested in blocking the constitution for Muslims?
Guess what: the people who ACTUALLY OWN THE PROPERTY should have the 'choosing power'. Or again - are Muslims to be banned from being equal citizens?
As for your saying that your reasoning cannot be blamed on bigotry: how do you figure that?
The root of your reasoning can ONLY begin with the fact that you blame all Muslims for 9/11. And that IS bigotry.
You are not only asking for Muslims to relocate. You are asking them to take responsibility for 9/11. And that is truly despicable - and certainly not a liberal stand.
August 26, 2010 12:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
People, after being endlessly reminded that no one is building a mosque remain persistently and willfully ignorant. It is not a mosque and the proposed community center is not being built anywhere near Ground 0. This is New York City's call. Other opinions are pointless. NYC is perfectly capable of deciding what it wants to allow (or not) without the advice of every low life demagogues in the country trying to run NYC's game.
August 26, 2010 12:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
After being endlessly reminded that no one is building a mosque, the largest percentage of Americans remain persistently and willfully ignorant. It is not a mosque and the proposed community center is not being built anywhere near Ground 0. This is New York City's call. Other opinions are pointless. NYC is perfectly capable of deciding what it wants to allow (or not) without the advice of every low life demagogues in the country trying to run NYC's game.
August 26, 2010 12:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
People remain willfully ignorant because they are either in a difficult situation or scared that they soon will be. So they need someone to blame.
If they don't have the mosque blame, they have to start thinking about how they themselves might be responsible for their own situation. And they can't have that.
August 26, 2010 1:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
To be fair, it is an overstatement to say that Park 51 is "nowhere near" the WTC site. It is near, it's just not part of the site and most certainly does not "overlook" it, as some have claimed. It will not even be visible from the WTC site, certainly not from street level, and probably not even from the upper floors of the buildings there, as Park 51 will be surrounded by taller buildings.
August 26, 2010 5:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I see a lot of gross overgeneralizations here like "America is becoming more bigoted and intolerant". Sure, America, like all other countries has a history of bigotry, but it also has a history of forthrightly confronting it. I think most people who live in big cities see plenty of people from other countries, belonging to various ethnic and racial groups who are succeeding in getting ahead in America, and a "bigoted" society would not have such a thing.
A poll I heard yesterday says only 31% of Americans have a "postive view of Islam", down from 40% five years ago. This means a lot of Democrats and Obama voters don't have "positive feelings" about Islam, so it is not just Tea Partiers and Republicans that have this problem.
The problem boils down to this.....Why do so many Americans have doubts about Islam and Muslims? The US has come under attack by radical Muslims, and not just on 9/11. There was also Major Hasas (an American military officer!) at Ft Hood, and there are the American jihadists who went to the Middle East to fight against America there. Now, we can say, as Bush did that "there were a tiny group of extremists who hijacked a great religion". The question that I think is troubling everyone is whether that is indeed the case. The vast majority of Muslims don't carry out terrorits attacks, but WHAT IS THE ATTITUDE OF THOSE WHO DON'T CARRY OUT VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF ISLAM TO THOSE WHO DO?
There are several possible answers:
(1) Those appalled by the violence and who view it as absolutely unacceptable to Islam, even if there are legitimate grievances with American policy towards Muslims.
(2) Those appalled by the violence because it can cause a backlash against American Muslims.
(3) Those who are indifferent, saying that they had nothing to do with it so it is not their problem.
(4) Those who feel that those who carried out the attacks "meant well" because of "legitimate grievances" against the US, but they didn't understand the true "Islamic" way of dealing with problems like this.
(5) Those who feel that those who carried out the attacks "meant well", but they went too far because they didn't realize the damage that it caused to the image of Islam in the West.
(6) Those how carried out the attacks did the right thing and an individual non-violent Muslim may admire them for it but he doesn't believe he could do it himself.
I am convinced that the Americans who have a negative view of Islami have it because they don't know how most Muslims in the world, and particularly in the US, would classify themselves according to the categories I laid out above. I certainly don't know the answer myself. However, there are certain indicators avialable:
(1) How do American Muslims relate to the internecine slaughter of Muslims by other Muslims in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Algeria, Yemen, Somalia, etc? Do they take an active role in denouncing the violence, saying this is a defiling of Islam to carry out such violence in the name of their faith, or are they basically indifferent?
(2) Do American Muslims take an active role in dissemenating information that denounces the attacks carried out in the US and the West?
(3) Are Muslim leaders in the US behaving consistently by denouncing violence while they are the US and then doing the same when they are in Muslim countries (a good negative example is the fellow who was Major Hasan's mentor who denounced the 9/11 violence but then went to Yemen and became an extreme anti-American agitator?).
(4) How is it that "close allies" of the US like Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Egypt expect to be friends of the US and yet, at the same time, have their state-controlled media spew out extreme anti-American and anti-Western propaganda?
All these things are constantly being encountered in the news media and they do affect the people that hear it.
Again, the problem is that most Americans do not know that answers to the question I raised, and until they do, I am afraid Muslims in the US are going to encounter suspicion on the part of other Americans.
August 26, 2010 5:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why don't we round up all the Muslims in the US and give them Ike's quiz? Then we can "classify" them and stick little yellow crescents on their foreheads so we all know what category of Muslim they belong to.
August 26, 2010 6:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nope but restricting islamic immigration would help.
Muslims refuse to denounce Sharia law and the verse of sword and they are incapable of living in peace in the western world so we should refuse Muslims the privilege of living in the western world.
They should return or stay in their Islamic lands and not burden us with their presence.
August 26, 2010 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you want to ship my brother-in-law back to Egypt?
Ike wants to "classify" him--and you want to deport him. We see here the difference between the "rational" racist and one who's completely unhinged. The difference is insignificant, however, since racism always boils down to the same thing in the end.
August 27, 2010 8:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
"So you want to ship my brother-in-law back to Egypt? ", did he enter this country illegally thru Mexico?
August 27, 2010 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just as legally as you--maybe more so, since who knows how you got here . . . or why we let you stay . . .
August 27, 2010 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Has he renounce Sharee'ah Law and the Verse of the Sword?
August 27, 2010 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
You represent fundamentalist Christianity well.
August 28, 2010 8:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you.
August 28, 2010 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who are you people? Are you for EVERYTHING that tears down this country? It boggles the mind that, since 911, you have been more concerned with the plight of those who MURDERED 3,000 American Men, Women and CHILDREN, than with the Families of the Dead.
"Oh my gosh. Look how these poor people are being treated in Guantanamo. I heard that a KORAN was flushed down the toilet. Somebody help these poor Muslims. I don't care how many AMERICANS they've SLAUGHTERED. They don't deserve to have water poured over their face. And everybody knows that 911 was an inside job, and that no Jews came to work that day, and even if they DID DO IT, America DESERVED IT."
I have an idea. If they want to build their Mosque, let them build it somewhere else. I know that you're too STUPID to realize this, but, just because you have a RIGHT to your Religion, you DON'T have a right to put your Edifice anywhere you want.
Gov. Patterson has offered this Scumbag free land to build his VICTORY MOSQUE someplace else. I'm thinking that they shut put it next to the Waste Treatment Plant. Or someplace where we BURN GARBAGE or throw USED CONDOMS. Maybe someplace where the DIRTY DIAPERS are tossed.
This is NOT a project of PEACE and UNDERSTANDING. If it was, than this Imam and his America Hating, Jew Hating, Hamas Loving, pail of worms looking WIFE, would UNDERSTAND that we don't want it there. This building isn't just NEAR Ground Zero. It IS Ground Zero. It was HIT by that GOAT LICKER - Attas' Jet. Part of the jet crashed in to this building. UNDERSTAND? It's Ground Zero.
Let this Lying sack of Camel Sh*t build his Mosque someplace else. Let him go to 42nd Street. Let him go to 1st Avenue. Better yet, Let him go to Hell.
And he can take all of you self hating queers with him.
August 26, 2010 8:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
A reminder: sometimes it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to pound the keyboard and remove all doubt.
August 26, 2010 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well said.
August 26, 2010 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
American Muslims died in the 9/11 attacks too. It wasn't about true Islam, as it's suppose to be interpreted, it was a twisted and diluted view. Think of all of the Americans that have killed Americans, and all of the Americans that have killed Muslims (which far outnumbers the amount of Americans that have been killed by so-called Muslims). We can make an excuse to ban any type of church if we get scared of anyone who kills in the name of their twisted version of religion.
One thing that I love and hate about the United States is the freedom that we give to people, but we must accept it because it makes us great overall. Think about this: Nazis, and the Ku Klux Klan have cumulatively killed thousands of people, but they are still allowed to hold hate-filled rallies because of their freedom of speech. Those two organizations, and other hate organizations are allowed to buy property to hold meetings (discussing who knows what), congregate, and plan for taking over the country, and getting rid of every non-Aryan. Although, I hate our freedoms in the instances above, I am thoughtful enough to understand why they're so important. So, in the United States, we knowingly allow the Ku Klux Klan, and Nazis to operate because of their American rights although their ENTIRE group is extreme, and about hate/violence, but we group non-extremist Muslims with the extremist Al Qaeda loving so-called Muslims. How is that at all right?
If we lost an automatic right to our freedoms in the United States, then the country would no longer be what it has been since our founding fathers created our Constitution. The Constitution was created to guard against majority rule,discrimination and corruption in different forms. Could you imagine not having protection from majority rule? I couldn't because when interracial marriage became legalized in CA, 90% of the country (majority) believed that it was wrong, and when slavery was abolished, the majority of the country (that had rights) was against it, and when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, the majority was against it, and these are only a few examples. So if majority ruled on their beliefs of right and wrong, I wouldn't be married to my white husband, probably wouldn't have my mixed race children, I'd have no rights, and I'd likely still be a slave. The majority doesn't always do what's in the best interests of personal rights.
August 28, 2010 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Intolerance? Yeah... I know a little bit about intolerance.
Obama is the most intolerant president of outside ideas that this country has ever had. He rarely holds news conferences. His advisers are all leftist ideologues. He does not engage in conversation and rarely departs from his Teleprompter dialogue.
In other words - Obama is absolutely closed to any new ideas, based on the evidence of what is working and what is not working. That is the epitome of "intolerance", is it not? And of course the writer, Robert Reich, being in the same mold of Obama... will never understand this.
And to cap things off... tomorrow I have a meeting with our insurance provider... who has already telegraphed to us that our insurance rates are going to rise dramatically. . Thank you Obama! Welcome to Obama care.
August 26, 2010 8:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Intolerance? Yeah... I know a little bit about intolerance.
Obama is the most intolerant president of outside ideas that this country has ever had. He rarely holds news conferences. His advisers are all leftist ideologues. He does not engage in conversation and rarely departs from his Teleprompter dialogue.
In other words - Obama is absolutely closed to any new ideas, based on the evidence of what is working and what is not working. That is the epitome of "intolerance", is it not? And of course the writer, Robert Reich, being in the same mold of Obama... will never understand this.
And to cap things off... tomorrow I have a meeting with our insurance provider... who has already telegraphed to us that our insurance rates are going to rise dramatically. . Thank you Obama! Welcome to Obama care.
August 26, 2010 8:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
....so you are so naive as to think your rates would not have risen without "Obamacare"?
Seriously, as for rates rising, it is as inevitable as sunrise. Obama's health care bill couldn't stop it any more than you can wash the greed out of a monopolist's soul with a Sunday morning church service.
Maybe the two words the health care industry needs to start hearing is "price controls". Scream and yell all you want about free enterprise, the health care industry is ruining the whole concept of free enterprise worse that any commie plot ever hatched in the cold war.
The unfair share of our resources that are going to this bloated, inefficient system is sapping our national resolve and making it ever more difficult for small businesses to compete with the multi-nationals who now own our once-venerated Chamber of Commerce.
August 26, 2010 9:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
When we figure out PEOPLE are holy and the whole earth, not just the places we remember for some historic incident, good or evil, is a blessing we all share, equally, then we might have a grasp on reality.
Designating ground zero, or any geography for that matter, as "Holy Ground" assures only one certainty; that it will be used as a tool in the politics of religion, just like the right-wing fear mongers have done with ground zero, the "Holy Land" and so many other places on the Earth, even as they greedily destroy the planet as a whole.
This is one of those phenomenon where you really can't wholly blame the lemmings, they are just responding to hateful stimulus they are fed, it is the hungry wolves who mislead them who are most guilty, they are the ones who invent these "holy" grounds, and foment the fear and loathing that moves their lemmings ever-closer to the cultural precipice..
August 26, 2010 9:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Many Americans (and politicians who the polls) don't want a mosque at Manhattan's Ground Zero.
An increasing percent believe the President is a Muslim.
Most Americans approve of Arizona's new law allowing police to stop anyone who looks Hispanic and demand proof of citizenship.
Most would deny citizenship to children born in the United States to parents who are here illegally."
This is why many say America is a right of center
nation. I say many in America are a mile wide and a half inch deep. AND KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY MEDICARE!!!
August 26, 2010 9:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Articles don't get much shallower than this one so I'll be brief.
The ONLY international terrorists are Muslims, and illegal immigrants are costing the US close to half a trillion dollars a year - trillion and not billion.
Michael
August 26, 2010 9:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
So brief that you had to reprint it twice?
Thank you for equating all international terrorists with muslims and all muslims with international terrorists.
You are deliberately avoiding looking at the other side of that coin which depicts the American invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq as terrorist acts.
I know, the USA cannot be a terrorist nation because then it would follow that you are a terrorist.
Do you believe that a nation cannot be an international terrorist? Or that the only nations who are international terrorists are those defined as such by the US Government - North Korea, and Iran?
Try applying the standards you apply to others and their countries to yourself and your country.
Or, do you believe that the war in Iraq was not for control of the oil there, or to provide those no-bid contracts for the vice president's previous company earning them and him billions of dollars?
.
August 26, 2010 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Articles don't get much shallower than this one so I'll be brief.
The ONLY international terrorists are Muslims, and illegal immigrants are costing the US close to half a trillion dollars a year - trillion and not billion.
Michael
August 26, 2010 9:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Articles don't get much shallower than this one so I'll be brief.
The ONLY international terrorists are Muslims, and illegal immigrants are costing the US close to half a trillion dollars a year - trillion and not billion.
Michael
August 26, 2010 9:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry for the multiple submissions I got take to an error page and assumed that I would have to resubmit.
Note for the webmaster - fix the script!
Michael
August 26, 2010 9:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
The only international terrorist are muslims? Hardly. The terrorist list
And illegal immigration costs close to 500 billion a year? Where do you get this so called facts? Chain emails?
Cost of Illegal Immigration
As the saying goes you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts
August 26, 2010 10:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
And aside from terrorists who operate from some political frame of reference, let's not forget the international crime syndicates (whose frame of reference is purely financial) from the Columbian cartel to the Russian mafia. In terms of cost of life, resources, and misery caused, whether through the drug trade, illegal weapons sales (inc. WMD), sex trade, identity theft, etc, these folks do far more damage to civilized life, here in the U.S. and around the globe.
August 26, 2010 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry for the multiple submissions I got taken to an error page
"Movable Type
An error occurred
close Invalid request"
and assumed that I would have to resubmit.
Note for the webmaster - fix the script!
Michael
August 26, 2010 9:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
after reading your multiple post, I understand now why there's a piece of your avatar puzzle missing over the left side of your brain...
It IS the part that controls "The Right?"
Right?
August 26, 2010 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with substance of the article. But just because, fear is driving the popularity of some of these issues, does NOT mean the sentiment of those are fearful are incorrect.
The placement of the Mosque was a grossly insensistive act on the part of the organizers, regardless if it subsequently got more attention than if we were not in the grips of a severe economic crisis.
The arizona law does not allow a person to be stopped and questioned simply for looking hispanic. The law allows one to ask for proof of citizenship (i.e. a driver's license) if they have already been stopped for a suspected infraction of the law. Clearly, there are some in the Liberal community who are willfully mischaracterizing the law to support their position. Others are just unforutnately repeating what they have heard about the law in the media echo chamber.
It appears the law has been successfully mischaracterized by the media when someone of Mr Reich's education cannnot see the distinctions between the written law and the media characteriztion of the law.
An endless supply of low-wage laborers was not healthy when the economy was sound and certainly is not healthy when the economy with the economy in it's current state and with unions virtually non-existent and out-sourcers controlling the politician.
Who will represent the Democrats of 'yore. Not Mr. Reich. Not the republicans. The working man has no voice.
August 26, 2010 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Written by someone who just referred to the Park 51 Community Center as a "Mosque".
August 26, 2010 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Arizona law mandated that local law enforcement officers can arrest and put into prison, pending verification of documents, anyone who may be guilty of a number of petty violations like 'impeding the flow of traffic', or being the driver of a car having an illegal resident riding in the vehicle (perhaps even dropping a kid off at school), none of which are legal grounds for incarceration under federal immigration law.
The Judge said local police cannot decide on their own who to lock up and who not to, that is the duty of federal law and the immigration service and immigration courts.
Even the private attorneys Gov. Jan Brewer hired admitted to the Judge that that portion of the law was unenforceable, and the Gov. tried to change it after the recent ruling, but the Arizona legislature refused.
August 26, 2010 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Democrats et al have got to understand that the Tea Party Republicans have a "take no prisoners" approach this year and 2012. Somehow, I don't know if the D Leadership gets it. Joe Biden is talking some about the "malarkey". He needs to be joined by others. Harry Reid is not my "father's majority leader."
I voted for an 8 cylinder turbo charged candidate in 2008, but it seems in the spirit of bipartisanship, I now have a 4 cylinder Democratic leader in the White House and U.S.Senate.
August 26, 2010 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I said it recently, but it needs repeating; for some reason we don't quite understand as yet, the right wing fear machine led by Fox News isn't getting the fear mileage out of Al Queda and the Taliban they once enjoyed so fruitfully, again for reasons history might reveal but as yet are mysteries.
So they need the WHOLE OF ISLAM to vilify.
Maybe it is that moderate, peace-loving Muslims are living among us, peacefully building their houses of worship and cultural enclaves, so they are so much more exposed to the hate mongers than the exotic and extreme Taliban and Al Queda that the right has depended on for strawman status and perpetuation of the arcane war machine.
By fomenting fear and loathing in places like Iowa and Minnesota and Texas, etc, places where the people do not share their everday lives with a thriving multi-ethnic community, the right wing perpetuates it's money machine.
Seriously, how on Earth can you maintain a bloated no-bid military to make your millionaire pals into billionaires, if you don't have a world-class enemy to hate?
Al Queda and the Taliban were just too trivial in reality to maintain that strawman of global proportions, so now they are attacking a whole religion for what its reprobate members do.
August 26, 2010 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
"So they need the WHOLE OF ISLAM to vilify.", the right-wing can't vilify something that has already been vilified by Muhammad himself.
August 26, 2010 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your hateful lies about Islam come across very similar to the way extremists like Osama Bin Laden represent Christianity and Judaism.
You may not be violent like Bin Laden, but your hate and seeming orgasmic satisfaction you get out of promoting religious warfare, suggests you're no different to him politically.
August 26, 2010 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Idiot Islam promotes WAR by its own religious doctrine, can you tell how?
August 26, 2010 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You write: "Most Americans approve of Arizona's new law allowing police to stop anyone who looks Hispanic and demand proof of citizenship."
That's a flat-out lie, Robert. Clearly, like Obama, Holder and Napolitano, you have not read Arizona's SB 1070, as amended. The law does NOT allow police to stop anyone who looks Hispanic and demand proof of citizenship.
So shame on you for using untruths to push your agenda.
SHAME--ON--YOU!
August 26, 2010 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I connected the dots and did not see a picture of fear. My picture is one of Americans who are not afraid, but who are very unhappy with our current political ruling class, which by the way, includes Mr. Reich. The only fear I see from connecting Mr. Reich's choice of dots is the fear being expressed by Democrats of an upcoming electoral disaster and with the help of Mr. Reich, they are desperate to do anything to deflect American's thoughts from the disaster of the past 4 years of a Democratically controlled Congress and the past two years of the Obama presidency. The fear is the thought of these people remaining in power after November.
August 26, 2010 11:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, look the Dem version of Mini Me speaks like a grown up. Now, Robert, go play your video games. The big people are solving real problems. Idiot Libtard.
August 26, 2010 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well based on this comment I have no option, but to conclude that you are neither a big person (intellectual capacity wise) or an adult.
August 26, 2010 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Technically speaking, the Arizona immigration law, currently in legal limbo, does not allow the police to stop anyone who looks Hispanic.
The law states that anyone who is detained by police for committing a crime or violation can subsequently be asked for proof of citizenship.
There is a big difference there. The law does not allow the police to simply stop anyone who looks Hispanic.
That's ridiculous.
August 26, 2010 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fire, ice, asteroids, volcanoes, global climate change, pole shifts, war, gay rights, race, religious disputes, oil disasters, financial collapses, American Idol, political parties, Jersey Shore, riots in Greece... they are all bogeymen with which we distract ourselves from the real threat of our time.
In an age when everyone invents his own truth, there is no community, no commons, only factions and fractures.
Without community, without a sense of commons, there can be no consensus to resist the greedy, the envious, the cynical, the solipsistic and power-mad narcisists who sieze control and turn the institutions of civilization into a series of doom machines, real or imagined.
The question each of us needs to ask ourselves is, which side of this very real conflict are we on?
Do you honestly believe that "every man for himself" and "I've got mine" are real answers, and that the civilization that allows you to operate that way is actually beneficial and will be self-sustaining if everyone thinks and behaves that way?
Or, do you believe that we ARE our brothers' keepers, and that by fostering that belief, and by building a true commons we can all share in order to prosper, we will all end up in a better world?
August 26, 2010 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the country was founded with the ideal situation being a mix of both. The framework of democracy is that everyone's interest be represented and hopefully decisions would be made for the benefit of the whole. However, on an individual basis, the freedom to act in one's own best interest wsa protected. It's a difficult balance to maintain but I think part of that is what's at stake right now. The American people are inherently suspicious of having their lives run from Washington and only more so when they are told that even if they are against something, they'll learn to appreciate it because it is actually in their own best interest. It's a slippery slope from there.
August 26, 2010 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
So I'm presenting the cynical thesis that the Republicans are deliberately blocking anything that would stimulate the US economy with the intent of creating more fear, and uncertainty, which they can use to fire up their base.
Have you been bugging my house? I don't think it's cynical at all. In fact, I'd go ya one better and suggest there are companies in this country doing the same thing...sitting back and waiting to hire until Obama is gone.
August 26, 2010 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
The real intolerance is from the extreme left wing Elites, like Robert Reich, who think average working Americans are a bunch of stupid, racists, religious bigots, who should just, do and think, only what their wiser, smarter, Ivy League educated, superiors tell them to do and think!!! If you oppose Obama and the Democrats on any of their radical left wing policies you are automatically racist and UNAMERICAN!!! If you think that out of tolerance and sensitivity to the 9/11 familes, and the trauma the nation went through on 9/11 when terrorists in the name of extreme Islam murdered 3000 Americans, the huge Mosque and Islamic center should be located someplace further away from ground zero, then you are a Muslim hater, Religous Bigot, and according to Mayor Bloomberg...UNAMERICAN!! If you think that our Government should control our borders so millions of people can't just walk into our nation illegally, and that our police officials should be able to enforce our laws, then you are again racist and UNAMERICAN! And why are 70-80% of the American people who are on the wrong side of Obama, the Democrats, and Robert Reich on one or more of these issues racists and UNAMERICAN. Why out of fear, of course. Average Americans are too stupid to really understand the issues and have an informed opinion about any of these issues, espeically if it doesn't match exactly what Obama, the Democrats, and Robert Reich tell you to think! Average Americans can either accept the contempt, bow their heads, and accept the rule o these Elites, or they can March to the polls in Nov and send a resounding message by defeating every Democrat on the ballot!
August 26, 2010 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you need more exclamation points in your comment. There's a couple sentences in there without one.
August 26, 2010 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
valwayne you're making too much common sense for the average progressive mind to digest, stand back because their heads might explode and then they will say your 'hate speech' was responsible for their deaths.
August 26, 2010 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah that's our argument.
ug ug ug
Why is it you simply cannot debate real issues with honesty - and every time anyone replies to you not with malice or aggression, but with a viewpoint that differs from your own, and which we believe reflects real American values, your replies are consistently over the top childishness?
Yeah, I know: we're "not worthy of debate" according to you.
Which makes your even writing at this site nothing more than the pathetic act of a troll.
As for your comment above: when you have convinced an entire political movement - millions of people - that the only reason Muslims are here is to kill us all and take over out country, are you seriously trying to say that someone who truly believes that won't try to stop them? Not one in the millions of ignorant idiots who share your hate of anyone who's different to you?
More evidence you're very ignorant and very, very naive.
If I completely believed the nonsense that you hateful bigots spew, then I'd be out there with my gun, protecting my country.
But no, all you do is spew hate, tell lies about Islam, Muslims and their intentions and quite obviously you don't believe a word of what you say.
That or you're a coward.
Personally, I believe both. The lies and hate your heroes Gingrich,Beck and co are spewing is really, truly hurting this country - but you seem to be getting your rocks off over it.
August 26, 2010 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have debating for over 6 months now here at TPM, I choose whom I will debate with.
If you want to debate me you must deem yourself worthy by answering this simple question without any avoidance or evasion....
Is Islam unconstitutional?
August 26, 2010 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
No.
August 27, 2010 12:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess anybody with a computer can now be considered a journalist or columnist. This guy is so transparent, and I mean that in a derogatory way, that it’s pathetic.
Let's take your ridiculous points one by one and dismantle them shall we? Maybe, just maybe, you will get your head out of your ass and into the light of day.
1. Most Americans don't want a Mosque at Ground Zero.
I could just say, Duh, but then that would equal your writings, so I'll just stick to fact.
Perhaps the memory of the murder of 3000 Americans on that very spot (600 feet away, close enough)by Muslims is the reason? Why don't you understand that? Do you know anything about the Muslim pal?
Let me give you a brief history lesson. Muhammad wanted to be a man of respect due to the incessant demands and challenges by his own father. He therefore decided upon religion to be his venue to fulfill his want.
Since he would be inventing his own legacy, why not reinvent religion? So he took the Torah and even some of the New Testament to shape his warped new religion.
Many opposed this idea as they were perfectly happy worshiping Allah as Arabs had been doing for quite some time.
But Big M wanted to subdue those particular believers as he knew he would be dead monkey shit had he tried to spew his lies in the west.
So he had to figure a way to make Allah a murderous god, a fearful god who believed his followers should "Suck the tongue of boys," "Murder all those who do not belong to the faith," "Treat women no better than any donkey or camel," etc.
Since the god Allah’s doctrine now became subjective to and reflective of one man's ideology, there was no limit to the depravity and whimsical fancy of the god’s new master, Muhammad. It is no different today folks. Believe that. The only moderate Muslim is the Muslim who is outnumbered. He will bide his time as he has for 1600 years. But his agenda is to 1. evangelize. 2. convert. 3. Subject. 4. Transform the countries. Follow their lineage and history. But then that would take hard work and investigative reporting methods wouldn’t it? And as a liberal, you don’t want to work do you? You just want to assume, to throw it out there and see what sticks right?
Today, millions of Christians are being slaughtered, raped, tortured, imprisoned, and displaced only because of their audacity to worship the true God, Jesus Christ. Did you know that pal? Do you care? I doubt it. Why weren’t you fighting to help that little church cut through the red tape? I think the Mayor is a Christophobe and now, you are too. That’s right. You are all Christophobes. Bigots. Haters.
You same zealots for Mosques are not zealous for Churches are you? Hmm. You would rather stand up for people that treat women like dogs? Who behead with knives? Who believe in Sharia Law? Now, who is the idiot?
By the way, this Christian slaughter is done on world wide scale with the absolute blessings of the governments of every Muslim Nation. Oh, for our benefit, some may denounce such atrocities, but let's not be as stupid as you portend we are ok?
2. An increasing number of Americans believe the president to be Muslim.
Gee, I wonder why? Could it be he stated, "We are NOT a Christian Nation?" Or maybe it was the way his head almost hit the ground when he bowed to the Saudi King? Or maybe it was the fact that he threw pastor Grahm out of the WH but is a huge participant in Ramadan at that same house? Or maybe it was his stating that the Islamic prayer heard from the Mosque was the most beautiful sound in the world? A Christian would never state such a thing. Or maybe it was when he let slip in an interview..."my muslim faith..." But the reporter obligingly corrected him..."you mean your Christian faith..." Again, a Christian would never make that mistake. NEVER!
So gee buddy, are you saying that because there is some serious doubt about Muhammad, I mean, Barak Hussein Obama’s Christian faith is stemmed from fear? Really? Or maybe it stems from intelligence? What do you think?
3. Most Americans approve of Arizona's new law...blah blah blah blah, lie, misquote, lie about racism.
You can't be that morally corrupt can you? Without giving you the litany of every atrocity being committed and perpetrated upon the American citizenry and public treasuries concerned with many facets of the economy, I'll just say: YOU ARE WRONG! On all counts. By the way, you heard about the house of horrors on the border today right? How many people were slaughtered in that house? How many beheaded? Yea buddy. Let’s keep the borders open. Good plan. It’s the color of their skin and my shrinking savings accounts that make me want to take an Ak-47 and light up those evil perpetrators. Couldn’t be the incredible vile and evil that the people of that color perpetrate could it? Naw. You’re right.
4. It's called fear. When people are deeply anxious about holding on to their homes, their jobs, and their savings, they look for someone to blame. And all too often they find it in "the other" - in people who look or act differently, who come from foreign lands, who have what seem to be strange religions, who cross our borders illegally.
See, when people need to worry about hanging onto homes and jobs and money, that's because there IS A PROBLEM. You can call it whatever you want as most liberals like you can only label, you can't produce. You can't correct. You can't do anything worthwhile. The only thing you can do is label everyone else, blame everyone else and continue to lead people down the wrong path.
Look or act differently. Let's get this straight> Your beloved president and every one of you lying media puppets are the reason, the cause, the acidic-laden chutes of perpetrating fear. This is your card, your banner, your platform from which you spew. just listen to liberal talk radio. It's vile, its corrupt, and it accelerates fear and propagates hate. How you ask?
You attack the American. You never attack the source or bane of our ire. Everything we believe in, you attack. We are angry at you! Not the person who looks differently for I don't know if you are aware of this fact or not, but the United States is made up of people who look differently one from another. So you must be talking about one specific group of people who all look one way. I wonder who that might be? Care to spell it out there chump?
I've already gone over the "Strange religions" part previously.
Oh, I like how you not-so-subtly mixed in the idea that if we think the President is "one of them" then there is something wrong with us. Let’s check ourselves people. Don’t you dare speak out against the pres. If you do, there just might be something wrong with you. Hey pal, should we call the shrink and get the paddy wagon? You know, this sounds just a little too Orwellian to me. Does it to you?
5.We are far from that. But it's important to understand the roots of America's growing intolerance. And to fight the hate-mongers and cynical opportunists who are using the fears unleashed by this awful economy to advance their own sordid agendas.
Hate mongers. Every clip I see is the left spewing all kinds of hate at the right. Clip after clip, article after article, talk show, cable news shows, line after line, its the left who hate.
You bring up false accusations and try to label falsely. Just like you are doing right now.
We are the most tolerant nation on earth. People, don't listen to this hack, this wannabe. This bum. He got his journalism certificate, not diploma, from an online music school no doubt. Chump. Liar. Do you remember the day after 9-11? I don’t remember any mosques being blown to bits. Do you? How about day 2? Day 50? Week 30? Nothing? Hmm. I’d say we are pretty tolerant, and I’ll bet we would have acted the same way even if our bank accounts were drying up. The problem is Obama.
Hey bud, your president and VP, who just stated it again, believes we are on the right track economically. So why would we believe otherwise? Why shouldn't we be jumping up and down for joy?
It is time to stomp these liars and propaganda mongers out of the light of day. It is time to revolt against the heathens and barbarians who are driving this country to the brink of socialism or worse. By political correctness, they devour the nation.
Yours truly,
Your enemy.
August 26, 2010 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was Awesome Just Me !!! Bobby Reich III, is a political hack. It's insulting to intelligent people to have to hear and read his obvious bias.
Fear ? Bobby - Your reasoning is insulting. Our fear is from knowing the direction we're heading, who the real culprits are, and liberals catering to illegals and other cultures over our own. That's our very REAL Fear! It's not because we're scared little children who randomly need something to blame because we're confused by what's happening around us. WE KNOW who and what the problems are. DO YOU ?!?
August 26, 2010 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
"But his agenda is to 1. evangelize. 2. convert. 3. Subject. 4. Transform the countries." Sounds just like all the Christian missionaries who are out there right now. But seeing you write "to worship the true God, Jesus Christ" it is obvious that you believe that you have access to the Truth so there probably no use to reasoning with you. When Christians evangelize, covert, subject and transform countries that are righteous and holders of the Truth.
Personally I wished none of you would evangelize -- it's annoying if nothing else. But that is what religions do.
"Since the god Allah’s doctrine now became subjective to and reflective of one man's ideology" -- isn't this what Jesus did?
And that you can't understand how religions are manifested through cultures, and thus reflect those cultures, kind of proves the point trying to be made here.
But I will stand up for a church and a mosque and any other house of worship. But the last time I looked there was no one trying to protest a church from being built that was both legal and constitutionally protected. Red tape is red tape, the same red tape that every mosque, synagogue, etc would have to deal with.
And we are not a Christian nation, nor have we ever been. Our nation was founded on the Constitution and principle that are put forth by this document - life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, etc. That the majority of the folks were Christian is irrelevant. There were other faiths back then as now. Accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as one's savior never has been nor should it ever be a requirement to be included as a member of our nation.
I could go on, such as the Left doesn't believe in an open border but in comprehensive immigration reform that deals with the realities that we face regarding illegal immigrants, but I I kind of think it is pointless.
In many ways we are a tolerant people. One would hope that no mosques were blown up. But that doesn't excuse intolerant behavior in the present. Your rant at the beginning indicates that you don't recognize Islam as a legitimate path of faith as number of the posters who come out of the woodwork on this blog indicate as well.
And there is definitely hate coming from the Left side of the spectrum, but to sit there and not see it from the right. Again just read your spewing about Islam. Watch FoxNews. Watch the video of the black man who wasn't Muslim try to walk through those protesting the mosque or center or whatever people want to call it.
But you know this sounds like hate to me, violently so: It is time to stomp these liars and propaganda mongers out of the light of day. It is time to revolt against the heathens and barbarians who are driving this country to the brink of socialism or worse. By political correctness, they devour the nation." And then you sign it - "your enemy." Way to reach across the aisle.
I mean "heathens" and "barbarians." Really? Nope doesn't like someone is afraid to me.
August 26, 2010 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are RIGHT FREAKING ON!
GO...DUDE...GO..
..and for the rest of the day I'm 'Just Me Too'!
August 26, 2010 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Concerning your facts:
1) A majority felt Japanese interment was a good idea - was it?
2) A majority used to feel interracial marriage should be against the law: Should it?
The Constitution and Bill of Rights exists just for these very times. When the majority tries to trample on the rights of the few.
A christian nation. Simply put this is not a Christian Nation it is a secular nation made up of many faiths and more than a few non believers.
And the true God? Why is your God any truer than anybody else's? I think you might get an argument from the Jews, Hindus, Buddhist, those who follow Shintoism and the numerous other faiths who do not follow your one true God. And I have a feeling if there is an afterlife you are going to run into more than a few of them.
"God has no religion” Mahatma Gandhi
August 26, 2010 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
As long as we are making general arguments, I will reply in kind.
Happy is The Left whenever it finds an Ad Hominem reason for rejecting the whole argument, relieving it of the onus even to respond to an issue, happier still if it can find a single reason to reject a pile of issues at once.
A Stellar member of The Left, Reich knows himself to be a shining light - one of the few with a mind and heart clear enough to lead the rest of the pitifully misguided masses of humanity that vote.
Mosques, President Barrack Hussein Obama, Arizona Immigration Law, Citizenship - Whish! Out Reich's window with two easy words: Economic Stress. Wasn't that easy?
Too easy. Economic Stress did not spawn these issues, and it does not spawn genocide. Ideologies spawn genocide, Mr Reich - Nazi-ism, Communism - murdered 4 million and 93 million respectively.
But Politics are still politics the world over. What is Rahm Emmanuel's creed for his President? "NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE."
Well let's return to just one issue and look at it again - The Mosque. Do you know that scholars in the Middle East concluded the Mosque is a "Zionist Conspiracy" to incite hatred of Islam? That's right, it goes with the plot by the CIA to knock down the WTC. "Who would do such a thing as build a Mosque on the rubble?!!" they ask. It seems inconceivable to them. No Muslim could be so insensitive about this place!
...And yet, to Mr Reich, it is wrong for US Citizens to question it! Wrong for US Citizens to oppose the Mosque!! It is not rational - it is irrationality caused by Economic Stress, seething out around the edges and driven by unscrupulous demagogues. --What an amazing stance!
There is no real issue here for Mr Reich. He is blithely blinded by his faith in the utter superiority of his thought. He rises above humanity into the light airy space of heavenly clouds of progress!
In a way, he is right. He is not like the rest of us, struggling to come to terms with each other on real issues in a real world that we must live in together.
..Well, no one has died. No one has lost their rights. Few are even talking about depriving anyone of their rights - and they are being castigated from all sides. It is messy, and loud, and difficult -- but no one ever said Democracy should always be easy.
August 26, 2010 6:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
As long as we are making general arguments, I will reply in kind.
Happy is The Left whenever it finds an Ad Hominem reason for rejecting the whole argument, relieving it of the onus even to respond to an issue, happier still if it can find a single reason to reject a pile of issues at once.
A Stellar member of The Left, Reich knows himself to be a shining light - one of the few with a mind and heart clear enough to lead the rest of the pitifully misguided masses of humanity that vote.
Mosques, President Barrack Hussein Obama, Arizona Immigration Law, Citizenship - Whish! Out Reich's window with two easy words: Economic Stress. Wasn't that easy?
Too easy. Economic Stress did not spawn these issues, and it does not spawn genocide. Ideologies spawn genocide, Mr Reich - Nazi-ism, Communism - murdered 4 million and 93 million respectively.
But Politics are still politics the world over. What is Rahm Emmanuel's creed for his President? "NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE."
Well let's return to just one issue and look at it again - The Mosque. Do you know that scholars in the Middle East concluded the Mosque is a "Zionist Conspiracy" to incite hatred of Islam? That's right, it goes with the plot by the CIA to knock down the WTC. "Who would do such a thing as build a Mosque on the rubble?!!" they ask. It seems inconceivable to them. No Muslim could be so insensitive about this place!
...And yet, to Mr Reich, it is wrong for US Citizens to question it! Wrong for US Citizens to oppose the Mosque!! It is not rational - it is irrationality caused by Economic Stress, seething out around the edges and driven by unscrupulous demagogues. --What an amazing stance!
There is no real issue here for Mr Reich. He is blithely blinded by his faith in the utter superiority of his thought. He rises above humanity into the light airy space of heavenly clouds of progress!
In a way, he is right. He is not like the rest of us, struggling to come to terms with each other on real issues in a real world that we must live in together.
..Well, no one has died. No one has lost their rights. Few are even talking about depriving anyone of their rights - and they are being castigated from all sides. It is messy, and loud, and difficult -- but no one ever said Democracy should always be easy.
August 26, 2010 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
As long as we are making general arguments, I will reply in kind.
Happy is The Left whenever it finds an Ad Hominem reason for rejecting the whole argument, relieving it of the onus even to respond to an issue, happier still if it can find a single reason to reject a pile of issues at once.
A Stellar member of The Left, Reich knows himself to be a shining light - one of the few with a mind and heart clear enough to lead the rest of the pitifully misguided masses of humanity that vote.
Mosques, President Barrack Hussein Obama, Arizona Immigration Law, Citizenship - Whish! Out Reich's window with two easy words: Economic Stress. Wasn't that easy?
Too easy. Economic Stress did not spawn these issues, and it does not spawn genocide. Ideologies spawn genocide, Mr Reich - Nazi-ism, Communism - murdered 4 million and 93 million respectively.
But Politics are still politics the world over. What is Rahm Emmanuel's creed for his President? "NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE."
Well let's return to just one issue and look at it again - The Mosque. Do you know that scholars in the Middle East concluded the Mosque is a "Zionist Conspiracy" to incite hatred of Islam? That's right, it goes with the plot by the CIA to knock down the WTC. "Who would do such a thing as build a Mosque on the rubble?!!" they ask. It seems inconceivable to them. No Muslim could be so insensitive about this place!
...And yet, to Mr Reich, it is wrong for US Citizens to question it! Wrong for US Citizens to oppose the Mosque!! It is not rational - it is irrationality caused by Economic Stress, seething out around the edges and driven by unscrupulous demagogues. --What an amazing stance!
There is no real issue here for Mr Reich. He is blithely blinded by his faith in the utter superiority of his thought. He rises above humanity into the light airy space of heavenly clouds of progress!
In a way, he is right. He is not like the rest of us, struggling to come to terms with each other on real issues in a real world that we must live in together.
..Well, no one has died. No one has lost their rights. Few are even talking about depriving anyone of their rights - and they are being castigated from all sides. It is messy, and loud, and difficult -- but no one ever said Democracy should always be easy.
August 26, 2010 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The Left whenever it finds an Ad Hominem reason for rejecting the whole argument, relieving it of the onus even to respond to an issue, happier still if it can find a single reason to reject a pile of issues at once.", true...very true and that is why there is a progressive jihad under way as we speak to BAN me from this site of progressive propaganda.
August 26, 2010 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Banning you would deeply disappoint me and I would strenuously object. Honest. Truth is, I doubt anyone takes you that seriously. Just sayin.
August 26, 2010 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you but it is going on at this link....
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/d/r/drhassaballa/2010/08/ramadan-reflections-god-is-clo-1.php
...I too doubt if Admin will take seriously but one never knows, but some progressives here are trying very hard to BAN me.
Now you know why I hate Democracy!
August 26, 2010 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for the link. I will go on record in opposition. We can always just ignore you (no offense, but that's my inclination going forward).
I will, however, offer some parting words, not in hostility or with an agenda but as a constructive comment. When you ask for facts and you receive them, you have to prove them wrong, accept them as true or say "I would like to verify that myself." I stand behind my facts, and I admit my position on re-examining natural born citizenship is an opinion based on observation of other facts. Disagreeing with facts is not on the menu.
And when you make inferences, it helps when they are not so attenuated. It is a fact that the Muslims began a westward march of conquest in 632 AD when Europe was in tatters and Asia was strong and vibrant, but many empires before and since have done the same. Britain just let go of its last colony, Hong Kong, what, 10 years ago, and didn't even bother to disguise it as a religious conquest. Empire is all about economics. Religion might help motivate it and hold it together, but in the end its all about money - and power, which is another word for money.
I'll give you credit for persistence, but ...
Well, let's just leave it at that.
August 26, 2010 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the constructive criticism but if we all thought alike 100% of the time one of us would not be necessary, sometimes both sides seem to forget that little antinomian to life that we may actually need each other.
August 26, 2010 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh by the way a read your post on the other thread, "My bad. He's a nut.".
You not going to hurt my feelings if you too wanted me BANNED, it would be par for the course around here!
August 26, 2010 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I owe you an apology and offer it without reservation. I was angry with someone else tonight and took it out on people who had nothing to do with the situation. You were not the first or the last who I treated unkindly. I could and should have expressed myself more appropriately.
Every night I consider the possibility that I will not wake, so I offer my sincere regrets for my intemperate act now, while I have the opportunity to do so. The truth is, I really have enjoyed debating with you and I hope my suggestions are useful. If you approach this group differently, you might enjoy it more.
August 26, 2010 10:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
don't think we're trying that hard. but seriously i personally never stated that i wanted to ban you, nor did i even say i actually reported what you posted as abuse (and I didn't), merely that it was abuse. In this particular case. you post what you believe and i post what i believe and now i am "progressive jihadist"? The fact would seem that you are the reason you hate democracy. A hatred which doesn't really make sense since you also stated you believe everyone 18+ should have the right to vote. Each citizen, one vote. But that isn't democracy you will say that is a principle of the republic in our Constitution when at the time it was only landed white males who could vote.
But as I've said i can't ignore an intellectual train wreck. Sorry.
August 26, 2010 11:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have never tried to have you banned, nor have I reported you as abuse, for the record.
All I asked was that you take time to read the Bible and the Qu'ran and then come back to TPM after having taken the time to read them through.
I fear you exaggerate, sir.
August 26, 2010 11:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
For the record...I never even mention your name, as far as three individuals that actually did say they flagged me for abuse. There are no assurances they did not recommend extreme measures knowing their hateful hearts so I assumed the worse.
August 27, 2010 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
People generally assume things about other people that they themselves would do.
Thanks for letting us know.
You still owe Dr. Hesaballa an apology.
August 27, 2010 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dug, I truly doubt anyone who posts here at TPM has a hateful heart. We post at TPM because we care about people.
We listen to them, we take the time to keep an open heart and mind while discussing issues with them. Sure, it gets weird now and then, but for the most part, we try to tolerate one another. And we welcome folks like you who disagree with our politics, in the hopes that we can create meaningful dialogues and keep discussions going, wherein we can both learn and educate one another.
It's my hope that you will begin taking part in that light.
Peace.
August 27, 2010 12:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
LisB you seem too good to true, sort like the 'Paula Abdul' of TPM you think the best of everybody and give them the benefit of the doubt.
I bet your smiling write now when you read this...ha..ha.!
August 27, 2010 1:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, actually, I'm not, Dug. I'm wondering why you still haven't read the Bible and the Qu'ran and gotten back to me with your findings and insight.
August 27, 2010 1:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I read the Bible every but I read the Qur'an more and I have been giving you all some of my insights, I support the Fundamentalist view of the Bible and the Qur'an to be the most correct otherwise why have religion at all?
August 27, 2010 1:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have been wondering why you have been so devoted to advancing Al Qaeda's narrative and your comment about Fundamentalism helps me understand. Their certainty helps build yours.
Religion can serve another purpose than creating grounds of mutual exclusion. The harshness of your judgment brings a passage of the Gospel of Thomas to my mind:
August 27, 2010 5:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Their certainty helps build yours.", exactly but my certainty only extends to acknowledge the fundamentalist view point of the Qur'an and that Muslims must follow the Qur'an as written to be good Muslims.
I'm also certain Christianity is the only true path to God and thru a resurrected Jesus we find salvation and forgiveness of sins. With that being said I'm also certain Islam is false Biblical doctrine and Muhammad was a false prophet of GOD.
August 27, 2010 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
No one tried to ban you. I flagged you for abuse due to your pathetic abuse.
Man up.
August 27, 2010 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunatley the intollerace comes from the President. He wants us to be tollerant of religous beliefs but has spent 2 years getting us to fear the religous right. Christians and Muslims both believe homosexuality is a sin and the President has basically got America to fear Christians. Now that fear is being transferred to Muslims. I am not surprised. When the president instills intollerance everyone will follow.
August 26, 2010 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have obviously not listened to any of Obama's speeches. If you try to youtube them in regards to religion, you get this crap:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=obama+on+religion&aq=f
If you search "whitehouse.gov" and go to the "Issues" tab, you will not find any "Religion" tab.
Now....why is that?
Um.....maybe it's because religion is not a federal nor presidential issue, and never has been, and never should be.
Eh?
Obama doesn't want you to be anything other than who you are. So keep being you, sunshine.
;)
August 27, 2010 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow - that's one of the more bizarre charges I've seen against Obama lately!
Aaaah, classic.
August 27, 2010 4:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Robert Reich you are a perfect example of why the public holds the press in contempt. Among your other lies you state: Most Americans approve of Arizona's new law allowing police to stop anyone who looks Hispanic and demand proof of citizenship.
You are either:
1 Very lazy ... since it is easy enough for anyone (even a reporter!) to access and READ this law. Not only does it NOT state what you claim but the law contains a clause explicitly outlawing what you claim it makes legal!
2 Extremely stupid ... because the law is very easy to understand. It basically allows AZ officials to enforce the federal law ... when someone is stopped for another reason ... NEVER simply to check immigration status.
3 A professional liar. If you read the law ... and understood it then only one possibility remains ... you chose to deliberately misrepresent it.
4 Some combination of 1-2-3.
BTW: I happen to look Hispanic (perhaps because my mother is Hispanic) and live in AZ. I assure you I am much more concerned about self-righteous liars such as yourself than being stopped by AZ police.
August 26, 2010 10:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
GRC, when they stop you for posting at political blog sites, without papers, how will you feel then?
Just curious.
August 27, 2010 12:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
What does that mean?
Who is "they". The feds? The local police? Verisign? ISPs? The web sites?
What do you mean "papers"? I thought the Internet was paperless communication. You mean like China attempting to control Internet access? Virtual papers?
August 27, 2010 6:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Reich,
Your theory reminds me of Mayor Bloomberg when he initially speculated that the Times Square Bomber's motive was perhaps, "Anger over Government Health Care Legislation".
Bloomberg's blindness towards Radical Islam as a threat was proved incorrect just as your theory that economic uncertainty is driving anti-Islamic sentiment. Honoring the area where thousands were mass murdered by Muslims in the name of their deity, has nothing to do with economics.
August 27, 2010 2:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
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August 28, 2010 3:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thumps up! Chanel
August 28, 2010 4:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." Sun Tzu.
Mr. Reich, best withdraw from the battleground. You clearly do not know your enemy, and if this article is anything to go by, you don't know yourself.
As someone who would like to see a solid trouncing of Democratic candidates this Fall, I am heartened by your delusional take on the voters who are needed to deliver that trouncing, and can only hope (prayer not being an option for an atheist like me) that enough Democratic strategists share it.
August 28, 2010 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
what is it about America that in times of economic hardship the country turns so easily to the RIGHT ?
August 28, 2010 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink