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TIME Magazine: Attack On Iran Very Much A Possibility ++ Krauthammer All Defensive

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I have already written about Jeff Goldberg's soon-to-be-published Iran war manifesto. COMMENTARY and its neocons are jumping up and down in anticipation of the war they wanted all along. And the Israeli government, and its lobby here, are hot to trot, as always.

Nonetheless, it is hard to believe that Barack Obama will green light a war that George W. Bush vetoed although he has some major neocons among his top donors (not to mention Dennis Ross in the White House).

Nonetheless, I don't think Obama will attack Iran or let Israel do it. It's too crazy. But we need to all pay attention. After all, there is no anti-Iran war lobby and the pro-war lobby is the most powerful foreign policy lobby in Washington.

Here's Tony Karon in TIME.

And here's your Friday warmongering from Krauthammer. He says it's not true that only neocons want war. So does the ambassador from the United Arab Emirates (who has since repudiated the report Kraut refers to).


47 Comments

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And our good friend Amitai Etzioni is here, actully celebrating that his crazy "Bomb Iran" idea is now being taken seriously by serious people.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/e/t/etzioni/2010/07/iran-the-military-option.php?ref=reccafe

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MJ's headline exaggerates the TIME headline, which in turn exaggerates its own story. While informative, and worth reading, the story itself is somewhat superficial. It adds some perspective and detail to this issue, but not much historical depth or strategic insight.

Of course there is a POSSIBILITY of an attack on Iran. There is also a POSSIBILITY of an attack by the US on Israel. (Suppose, hypothetically, some renegade Mossad unit tried to bomb some US facility, intending to make it look as though an Islamic terrorist group were behind it, but botched the operation and exposed itself. If it also turned out that the Israeli PM or cabinet had known in advance but not acted to rein in the renegades, then the US would have as much justification for a bombing raid on Israel as it had for bombing Qaddafi in 1986).

This admittedly quite unlikely scenario points to an important dimension, touched upon in the TIME article, but only very tangentially. Thanks to ten years of neo-con horse manure, "progressive" spineless irrelevance, and spiraling down-dumbing "journalism," many if not most Americans are now ignorant of a long tradition of our country attacking other countries, AFTER THEY ATTACKED US FIRST !!!!

Believe it or not, this tradition was NOT in fact erased from history, just because a perfect storm of blunders in 2001 resulted in a terrorist attack in the US that had hoped to kill a few hundred people at most, albiet spectacularly, killing thousands instead.

Outside of the Israeli-occupied West Bank, Northwest Pakistan, a few districts of certain US states, and a smattering of other international locales known for moronic fanaticism, the distinction between aggression and self-defense is actually still recognized and valued in most of the world. An intelligent US administration -which, for all its weaknesses, we now have but did not consistently have during 2001-08- will look for opportunities to exploit provocations by Iran, and not lash out against it in response to squawking by chickenhawks.

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If I were an Iranian, I might be more comfortable with my country having the 'bomb' than not having it given that south of me there was a nation run by hawks and 30,000 nuclear weapons at their beck and call and an (ancient) mad on toward my country.

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It's too crazy? Obama's continuing insistence that a military option remains "on the table" reminds me a little of the Madman theory, a primary characteristic of the foreign policy conducted by U.S. President Richard Nixon.

Nixon to his White House Chief of Staff H. R. Haldeman:

I call it the Madman Theory, Bob. I want the North Vietnamese to believe I've reached the point where I might do anything to stop the war. We'll just slip the word to them that, 'for God's sake, you know Nixon is obsessed about Communism. We can't restrain him when he's angry -- and he has his hand on the nuclear button' -- and Ho Chi Minh himself will be in Paris in two days begging for peace. -- wiki

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Sad to think that Tricky Dick was sane enough to understand the madness of the theory but the neocons are insanee enough to make madness policy.

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I think you've a very, very good point there Don. What worries me most is Obama horrendous decision making on military issues thus far. We're not much closer, if at all, from leaving either Iraq or Afhanistan now than we were when he took office. He's blowing smoke up people's asses on Iraq and lying flat out about Afghanistan where has boxed himself in. He folded on the entire war on terror business like a cheap house of cards once he wa sworn in and had to sit down with the Generals and be a big man and demonstrate he is strong by deciding the best thing to do is to escalate the war and kill even more innocent civilians, etc... Obama's m.o. seems to be to bend to whateve interests push hardest on all major issues. In this case, since the peace movement evaporated in anticipation of Obama's assuming office there's no push from the left saying stay the fuck out of Iran:it's an invitation to suicide.

We live in a sick, sick country with a deeply corrupt and immoral political and economic leadership.

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Even decision making issues, inexperience etc., can be overcome if you adjust and acquire a really great staff. What worries me even more is that he doesn't really seem to give a damn. Is he the ultimate expedient pragmatist? I mean even the warmongers at least have the mad passion to win. Does he feel any passion at all? I get it if he has no great passion about tax accounting but war? I could be unfair. He may just really cover up his emotions and compartmentalize but he gives me no sense of what he is trying to win and at what cost. Does he evaluate the costs to others or only the political cost to himself?

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There was no peace "movement" to "evaporate." Hasn't been for decades, actually.

Obama was and still is the national politician best qualified to be president. And, unless he gets a major move on prontissimo, he is not proving to be capable of doing much more than limiting the damage already done by his predecessor. Of course this inadequacy is his problem, but it is much more America's problem.

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I'm not just trying to snipe you here. Don't confuse what you think or want Obama to do with what he actually promised during the campaign:

Iraq: He promised to be as responsible getting out of Iraq as we were irresponsible getting in.

"As of last week, the American force had shrunk by 75,000 troops since Mr. Obama took office, with 70,000 left and more leaving each day."
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/biden-welcomes-troops-back-home/

The article talks about reduced numbers, reduced footprint in fewer bases, and a much less prominent mission/role. Pretty impressive I think.

Afghanistan: He promised to refocus our efforts there after a comprehensive review (in which he accepted 30k new troops). There was a pledge not to make Afghanistan a continuous war, but not to get us out quickly.

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Thanks for once again exposing oleeb for the delusional liar he has proven himeself time and time again.

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Just some observations:

Incoming @ State on the Iran Desk:

Dibble to replace Limbert as State Department Iran official Foreign Policy: Josh Rogin [7/29/10]

"...Philo L. Dibble, a former longtime State Department official, will return to Foggy Bottom this fall to take over the Iran portfolio following the departure of John Limbert.

A State Department spokesman confirmed that Dibble is expected to start in September as the deputy assistant secretary of state (DAS) covering Iran in the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs (NEA). According to his State Department bio, he was previously a DAS in NEA from 2003 to 2005, although he didn't deal with Iran specifically..."

Outgoing @ State on the Iran Desk:

Hostage to Events: In an exclusive interview, the State Department's leading Iran expert discusses his *resignation* and why the Islamic Republic and the United States keep on talking past each other. Foreign Policy: Barbara Slavin [7/27/10]

John Limbert: "...A number of players with more skeptical views about the prospect of rapprochement with Tehran such as White House aide Dennis Ross and nonproliferation experts like Robert Einhorn and Gary Samore -- appear to be driving U.S. policy now, and the president himself blames the Iranian government for failing to respond to his outreach..."

"...Limbert, a scholar of Persian history and poetry and former Peace Corps worker in Iran who is fluent in Farsi and whose wife, Parvaneh, is Iranian, wrote a book about how to negotiate with Iran for the U.S. Institute of Peace. He is also the only American official who has met Ayatollah Ali Khamenei -- during the hostage crisis before Khamenei became Iran's president and then supreme leader..."

IMHO -- Not encouraging! On the other hand -- both Robert Dreyfus [the Nation] &
Steve Clemons
[Washington Note] keep on telling us to calm down and stop panicking as there's no chance the US will attack Iran.

United States, Iran to Restart Talks The Nation: Robert Dreyfuss [7/29/10]

"...From discussions with US officials[?], here's what I've gleaned about the administration's policy on Iran. First, there is no appetite whatsoever, and no serious consideration, being given to a military attack on Iran. Not even Dennis Ross, the hawkish aide at the National Security Council, brings up the possibility of a military strike, US officials tell me. Second, they say, sanctions against Iran may or may not impact Iran's decision-making over its nuclear program, and it's unlikely that sanctions can work effectively, but in any case sanctions are designed for their long-term impact, over years and not weeks or months, so the latest round of sanctions isn't designed to have immediate impact on how Iran approaches talks later this summer. Which means that hawks who call for setting a tight deadline for the sanctions to work are simply trying to use the sanctions as a stepping-stone to war. Obama isn't listening..."

Ok, but doesn't mean or say there isn't a time-line somewhere? -- and somehow trying to bleed Iran dry as well as the rhetoric that went along with those sanctions doesn't seem like fuzzy carrot diplomacy to me? Plus, I wouldn't trust Dennis Ross as far as I could throw him.

Obama might have the common sense not to take the US to war, but what about that yahoo over in Israel? -- With his own little army in Congress (on both sides of the aisle), as well as using both private and public forms of threats, humiliation, and intimidation into getting whatever he damn well wants, whether it be aid packages, military weapons, military maneouvers, loans, resolutions -- you name it.

Plus, this is what Dennis Ross [aka "Israel's Lawyer"] had to say in 2007:

Dennis Ross [WINEP]": "...The Iranian nuclear problem is reaching such a stage that the Israelis are putting the United States on notice regarding the usefulness of the diplomatic path. Israel is beginning to arrive at the conclusion that Western diplomacy is not going to produce a desired outcome. If the United States does not want the Israeli military to provide its own answer, it is time to rethink American diplomatic strategy and hasten to make it work."

So yeah -- really what's changed?

All I ask is how long do we have to put up with pandering to this megalomaniac in Israel -- pulling the shots -- hogging the limelight -- sucking all the energy out of our political discourse when we should focusing on our own domestic and foreign troubles and interests. How long?

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Also Philip Giraldi makes a good point about the impending NIE:

Philip Giraldi: "...Ironically, the push against Iran [House Resolution 1553 resolution "to endorse an Israeli attack on Iran"] comes at a time when the National Intelligence Estimate on the country is being finished. It might come out as soon as August, but it will be secret and its conclusions will either be leaked or released in summary. My sources inside the intelligence community insist that it will support the 2007 NIE that concluded that Iran no longer has a weapons program. The White House has delayed the process seeking harder language to justify a range of options against Iran, including a military strike, but the analysts are reported to be resisting. [I believe Ray McGovern is saying the same thing aswell]. So we spend $100 billion on intelligence annually and then ignore the best judgments on what is taking place..."

Also, today Clapper got his Senate floor vote:

Josh Rogin: "The Senate Intelligence Committee approved the nomination of James Clapper to be the next director of national intelligence by a unanimous 15-0 vote Thursday afternoon..."

However funny enough, Clapper was not the committees 1st choice -- I guess he brushed up on his Q&A before he had his meeting behind behind closed doors?

Originally, according to Josh Rogin: "...there was "...one thing leading Democrats and Republicans can agree on: They want Leon Panetta, not James Clapper, to be named the next director of national intelligence..."

Again, funny that! because when Panetta was up for the job at CIA -- Feinstein had a real hissy fit at the time:

Diane Feinstein: "I was not informed about the selection of Leon Panetta to be the CIA Director. I know nothing about this, other than what I’ve read,” said Senator Feinstein, who will chair the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in the 111th Congress.

“My position has consistently been that I believe the Agency is best-served by having an intelligence professional[?] in charge at this time.”

However, that soon changed -- and ever since Jeremy Bash [Ex-AIPAC Staffer, ex-Chief Counsel for the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, as well being an ex-staff of AIPAC Jane Harman came on board to be Panetta's trusty gatekeeper CIA Chief of Staff -- Feinstein seems to be in love with the man?

Anyways, we'll see what the new, overdue NIE has in store for us.

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The betting line on this event has not moved up at all : look under Current Events on the Intrade betting site

http://www.intrade.com/#

I am not shilling for the betting site - I am saying that

(1.) This prospective attack is a very well kept secret if it is about to happen

(2.) A person who is quite sure can make some money if the attack does occur

(3.) The war promoters know how to manipulate the public - which they did masterfully in the case of Iraq - they know making something sound inevitable is a great way to promote it.

(4.) The US public lacks enthusiasm this time.

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Thanks for the crap article in TIME, MJ.

On closer inspection (past the title, I mean), the only "war rhetoric" Tony Karon quotes is a reference to the opinion of another TIME columnist, Joe Klein!

Note which words are in literally in quotes and which ones aren't in the following paragraphs (because as we all know, words in quotes are the ones someone actually said, while the other words aren't):

But in Washington, the gloomy outlook on sanctions has been accompanied by a growing rumble of war talk. My TIME colleague Joe Klein recently reported that the military option was "back on the table" because Washington was not prepared to settle for "containing" a nuclear-armed Iran if sanctions failed and because U.S. officials believe that America's Arab allies support a military strike. A steady parade of pundits — many of them the same ones who advocated loudest for invading Iraq — is calling for military action. Hawkish former CIA operative Reuel Marc Gerecht advocated bombing as the "better safe than sorry" option, downplaying the backlash throughout the Middle East and possibly beyond that the Pentagon anticipates would result from a preemptive attack on Iran.

Excuse me? The phrases "back on the table," "containing," and "better safe than sorry" are not quotes that support Karon's (or MJ's) thesis; they do not remotely qualify as "war rhetoric."

Appearing on CNN on July 25, General Michael Hayden, a former CIA director, was asked if, assuming Iran remained defiant in the face of sanctions, there was "any alternative to taking out their facilities." Hayden answered that "Iran, left to its own devices, will get itself to that step right below a nuclear weapon, that permanent breakout stage ... And frankly, that will be as destabilizing as their actually having a weapon." Then he suggested that the Obama Administration's aversion to bombing Iran had diminished: "When I was in government, what we used to mystically call 'the kinetic option' was way down on our list. In my personal thinking — in my personal thinking; I need to emphasize that — I have begun to consider that that may not be the worst of all possible outcomes."

The aversion to bombing has diminished? What on earth does that mean? A diminished aversion to something is not "rhetoric." My aversion to this article, however, is increasing by the minute.

Notice which words are Hayden's and which words aren't. TIME doesn't provide a link to the original CNN interview, so we just have to take Tony Karon's word for it that the exchange is as he describes it.

But should we trust him?

Not so fast!

Karon is so freakin' dishonest that he says Despite the escalating war rhetoric and THEN he quotes Dennis Ross from two years ago.

How is something that was written in 2008 "escalating" the rhetoric now, in 2010? (The current year is 2010, is it not?)

Answer: It isn't!

Looks to me like TIME and MJ are the ones escalating the war rhetoric. So I have to call this what it is: irresponsible, hysterical propaganda.

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Here's the paragraph with the Ross quote, which I should have included for everyone's convenience:

Obama has, however, insisted that a military option remains "on the table." That insistence could be consistent with the perspective of his key adviser on Iran, Dennis Ross, who wrote two years ago, "When we say we are not taking force off the table, that must be more than a slogan. It is essential that the Iranians continue to believe that they may well be playing with fire if they persist in their pursuit of nuclear weapons." Regardless of whether force is ever used, Ross was arguing, the only way Tehran will back down is if it's convinced it will face U.S. military action if it doesn't.

Obama said during the primaries that a military option was on the table. So this is not escalation. This is absolutely no change from two years ago.

Just crap.

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NIce work RTBG.

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Yeah, thanks ready!

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When was the last time our commercial media referred to an "alleged" Iranian nuclear weapons program, or that officials "believe" such a project exists? References to unproven proposals that Iran is working on nuclear weapons are treated simply as fact: Iran has a nuclear weapons program that must be stopped. Our news industry has helped fabricate and perpetuate a dark fantasy that the 2007 NIE has been trumped by some new analyses that "gets it right". That's the most disturbing thing in this sick dog-and-pony show... That what once passed for our journalistic best is on board so profoundly with "the military option" to eliminate a filmy theory, a con job as tawdry as fairy tales that Saddam's weapons of mass destruction would soon incinerate us all.

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Thank You SFC : you make the absolutely critical point : the war promoters START with the assumption that Iran has a nuke program that is moving forward.

They offer ZERO proof of this assumption.

The news organizations that play along this time have ZERO credibility.

Even Ms Couric looked embarrassed the last time she had to read war promotion material as if it were true.

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Maybe I just wasn't paying attention, but did we go through this kind of chest-thumping hysteria when India/Pakistan/China got nuclear weapons? Other than a slap to our pride after years of meddling in their affairs, what has Iran done that is so very much more terrible than other countries? Actually, a nuclear weapon is the only thing that could save them...from US.

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Then they should have already been annihilated since they don't have a weapon to deter anyone, right?

We did go through it with China a long time ago. We threatened them, even talked to the Soviets about a preventative attack, but in the end we did nothing and everything turned out OK.

This is not to say that we shouldn't resist them getting weapons since the only way to be 100% sure that a nuclear weapons will never be used is if they don't exist. That being said, the odds of them using a weapon if they get one are quite unlikely.

And if you don't recognize that Iran makes trouble in every single one of its neighbors, including feeding weapons, money and training to insurgents that kill Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan, then you are willfully blind. That is what makes it much worse than most every other country.

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And if you don't recognize that Iran makes trouble in every single one of its neighbors, including feeding weapons, money and training to insurgents that kill Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan, then you are willfully blind. That is what makes it much worse than most every other country.

'Pot calling the kettle black' -- Look at the amount of trouble the US has created in Iraq and it's neighbors [noting there is still no stable government there]. Also don't forget all those civilians 'we' killed the millions of refugees we created that no longer have homes to go back to.

The reality of Americans killing innocent Iraqi's in a region of the world it willfully illegally invaded is what I believe you are blind to.

Iran has every right as a nation state to deal with it regional problems -- and please tell me when was the last time Iran initiated or invaded it's neighbors?

As for Iran killing American soldiers in Afghanistan -- I think it's really important to remember when we first invaded Afghanistan Iran could have made it really really difficult for us -- but they did nothing.

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I love the colonial attitude. The US has 800 military bases around the world and is forcibly occupying two nations, and Gary talks about how the Iranians "make trouble" with their neighbors.

Only the White Man has interests. The brown people "interfere."

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I don't care if we have a base in every country in the world for the simple reason that wherever we are, we are there with the consent of that government. In Ecuador they wanted us out, guess what: we left.

We are not forcibly occupying 2 countries. We are in Iraq and Afghanistan at the request of their governments, and we are slowly but surely leaving Iraq. If they wanted us out right away they wouldn't have signed the SOFA. (This is not a defense of how we got into the wars, but the facts as I stated them speak for themselves.)

A whole bunch of you are quick to point out all the lives wasted in Iraq, but when I point out that the Iranians are actively helping kill Americans you defend their right to pursue their regional interests. Very convenient.

Good job playing the race card too.

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A whole bunch of you are quick to point out all the lives wasted in Iraq, but when I point out that the Iranians are actively helping kill Americans you defend their right to pursue their regional interests. Very convenient.

Baring in mind there's a 'war' going on over there -- I haven't heard of there being a full scale assault on American soldiers in Afghanistan by Iranian soldiers? -- However, some military confrontations between the two that may lead to soldiers being killed -- I can well believe.

You do know that Afghanistan and Iraq borders on Iran?

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I don't know of any confrontation between American and Iranian troops. That's not how it works.

Iran through the IRGC arms, trains and funds Shia terrorist groups. They are less active in Afghanistan, but still meddling. Those same groups in both countries intentionally and unintentionally kill civilians and create disorder.

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Oh come on... and we 'don't' meddle, fund terrorists if we think it's in our interest?

e.g an old story but the only one I had a link to:

Rawstory [2006]: "...The Pentagon is bypassing official US intelligence channels and turning to a dangerous and unruly cast of characters in order to create strife in Iran in preparation for any possible attack, former and current intelligence officials say.

One of the operational assets being used by the Defense Department is a right-wing terrorist organization known as Mujahedeen-e Khalq (MEK), which is being “run” in two southern regional areas of Iran. They are Baluchistan, a Sunni stronghold, and Khuzestan, a Shia region where a series of recent attacks has left many dead and hundreds injured in the last three months..."

If you start sticking your fingers into the fire -- it's more than likely you are going to get burned. That's war.

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...We are in Iraq and Afghanistan at the request of their governments, and we are slowly but surely leaving Iraq....

I think the Iraqis definitely want us out. However, are we ever going to really leave with our massive-Vatican sized embassy? But, at some stage I think we will 'have' to leave.

With our troublesome puppet Karzai I think he will play the game of telling everyone he wants to the US stay as long as he's able -- how long that is who knows?

Iraq Withdrawal? Obama and Clinton Expanding US Paramilitary Force in Iraq
Jeremy Scahill 7/22/10
http://www.thenation.com/blog/37877/iraq-withdrawal-obama-and-clinton-expanding-us-paramilitary-force-iraq

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Invading Iraq will go down probably as the worst decision in U.S. foreign policy history. I'm not defending that, or the chaos that has resulted from it. Unfortunately, we cannot change what has already happened. But right now we are in Iraq at the request of their government. And we will leave when they want us to.

You point out all the civilians we killed or caused to be killed. Does Iran get a pass for training, arming and funding Shia death squads and insurgent groups that kill many thousands of Iraqis?

I'm sure you've pointed out the 4,000+ American lives wasted in this misadventure. But now when I point out that Iran has actively supported our enemies (in Iraq and Afghanistan) and continues to do so, you make excuses for them. Why do they get a pass?

I don't know that Iran has been in a war since the Iran-Iraq War. They're smarter than that. They arm, train and fund militants operating in nearly every country in the region. A few examples: Look at Yemen right now--they're supporting a civil war there. They make territorial claims to all of Bahrain and have supported multiple coups. Please do the research for yourself.

I'm not saying we should go to war with Iran. And I'm not saying go to all costs to stop them from getting a nuclear weapon. What I am saying is that they are a very nasty regime and certainly not our friends and that these things must be considered in our policy.

"As for Iran killing American soldiers in Afghanistan -- I think it's really important to remember when we first invaded Afghanistan Iran could have made it really really difficult for us -- but they did nothing."

I don't think it's really important. Iran never liked the Taliban so they didn't weep when we removed them. Did we or they or both of us miss an opportunity to bridge some gaps...Yes. Do they now arm and fund militants undermining Afghanistan and killing our troops? Yes.

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I'm sure you've pointed out the 4,000+ American lives wasted in this misadventure.

The sadness of it all -- We should never have been there in the first place.

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There seems to be a terrible misunderstanding on the part of this Administration, when they believe that the Arabs will back such attack, if ever it is going take place. Saudi Arabia may be willing to support such an adventure at its own risks. However, the majority of the other Arab countries believe that it will be a serious disaster for their regimes, for Israel, and for the U.S.
Most of the leaders in the region believe that this war may be the most traumatizing war for Europe and the U.S.
Surely, they argue, the U.S. can bomb Iran back to the Stone Age, but the Muslims around the world will see it as another attack on Islam, and across borders in the whole region, young independent fighters will pop-up, not necessarily hardcore Islamists groups, although they may seek their help, and they will target major infrastructures across the Middle East. Eventually, the whole Middle East will become lawless, something similar to Somalia, but on a much larger scale.
The Chinese, who look at Iran as sort of their backyard, are of the same opinion. Unlike the attack on Afghanistan, which they considered as self-defense, they consider an attack Iran, as a pure and simple provocation.
They proved their point recently with their military exercise. It was not a simple word of warning against an attack on North Korea, but also as admonition against an attack on Iran without a resolution form the U.N.
The military hardware was not as sophisticated as that the U.S has displayed in coordination with South Korea, but I am sure that the American generals would agree that it is equally effective, if not more deadly.
Ideologically, the Chinese do not care much about the Iranians or their regime. They are very piratical. Iran has resources, which they need, and Iran is US$ 10 billion market, which is expending fast, and will grow even faster now that there are facing stricter embargoes.
A Chinese diplomat told once, "Can you imagine how would the U.S. would react if we started to station troupes in countries to the South of Mexico or bombard any of these countries without any serious provocation from their part?"
Nevertheless, you never know, Obama may turn out to be more stupid or much weaker that Bu$h and Co.

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Obama says nuclear Iran poses "grave threat"
Jul 23, 2008
Obama told reporters during a visit to Israel that if elected, he would take "no options off the table"

Clinton on Iran Options
January 13, 2009
all options were "on the table."

Clinton: U.S. sees Iran moving to military dictatorship
Feb 15, 2010
"The option to attack Iran is still on the table, but we're not there yet."

Obama Threatens Iran With “All Options” Again
May 4, 2010
“The continued presence of all options on the table”

Obama on Iran: All options on table
05.17.09
"I've been very clear that I don't take any options off the table with respect to Iran. I don't take options off the table when it comes to US security, period,"

No options against Iran off the table: Obama
July 9, 2010
"I assure you that I have not taken options off the table,

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Consider context. The sanctions merely push Iran closer to China, Turkey and Russia, while screwing Western companies. They won't work. The US economy is tanking, and unemployment is intractable. Israel is putting on the pressure. The Congress too. So that increases the pressure for action, either diplomacy or war.

How about diplomacy?

The problem with diplomacy is that there is no agreement on any agenda for negotiation.

Iran has a legal civilian nuclear program which has been in accordance with the NPT, a document that actually encourages civilian nuclear programs. The IAEA has continually verified that Iran has not diverted nuclear fuel to a weapons program. Iran wants to keep its program and is legally entitled to do so, according to the treaty it signed in good faith.

The US position has been all over the place with many false allegations. Iran has a weapons program that it must surrender, Iran has a secret nuclear facility, Iran hasn't fore-sworn a nuke program and needs to do so, Iran is obligated to obey UNSC dictates, etc. So the US wants Iran to give up its civilian program, but what would this solve? How would such a move be verified? Why would such a move stop the verbal political attacks on Iran, and the false charges against Iran? In the meantime the US has promoted more and more sanctions which merely help China, Turkey and Russia, among others, at the expense of Western nations.

So, in this light, the fictitious "Iran problem" obviously has another agenda and other motives, having everything to do with profiteering, political advantage and campaign contributions and nothing to do with negotiations which obviously aren't possible.

Of course the idea of failing at negotiations is appealing to the warmongers. "Well, we tried."

And since all options are on the table . . .

But Iran is no third rate banana republic -- they have the capability to retaliate, to destroy cities and sink ships. So the Pentagon will say no.

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There we are, DB : what is the real reason for the proposed attack ? The alleged nuke program is a false pretext cooked up by the same liars that cooked up WMDs last time.

Also : what is the REAL reason the USA attacked Iraq ? We have never been told ... and it sure was not 'faulty intelligence' ... that 'intelligence' was FAKED.

So if we do not know the reason for the last invasion, could it be the same as the reason for this proposed war ? What do Iraq and Iran have in common ? Oil and gas, maybe ?

Why are so few people asking these questions ?

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Look at Iraq. Since the sanctions and invasion, Iraq has also been completely dedeveloped. What metric do we use as progress: More Iraqis than ever have (imported) cell phones. This metric is also been touted in Afghanistan. Notice, they don't make the cell phones. They use their oil review to import just about everything.

When will people wake up? This is all about predatory capitalism. You force resource countries to sell their resource (oil) in exchange for your goods (cell phones, manufactured goods, etc.)

We are returning to 19th Century capitalism. That is why Iran will be next. Iran manufactuers its own satellites. That's not supposed to happen.

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I really don't think it's fair at all to call Dennis Ross a neocon. I get that you strongly disagree with his views on I/P peace. However, he's been in government since Bush 41, except for the 8 years of the Bush administration. Why do you think that is? Maybe because he wasn't welcome there and/or he couldn't stand the stench of Bush 43 and what turned out to be the most incompetent foreign policy team in our history. Basically you're tarnishing a strong Democrat with the neocon label because you don't like his stance on one issue.

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He He's not like a Daniel Pipes neocon admittedly -- he's a lot more subtle and likes to work behind the scenes than the Pipes of the world. However, he is a PNAC'er, and I believe could be considered more of a liberal neocon -- a neo-liberal internationalist interventionist ultimate 'regime changer' type hawk.

Dennis Ross has always seemed to be like a broken record, having a one track mind i.e. 'what does Israel think.' Before he got the job in Hills State Dept, and then n: miraculously ending up inside the WH he worked as Chairman for an Israeli interest think tank: the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute (JPPPI) in Jerusalem, established by the Jewish Agency in 2002. So, yes I do have a little problem with him supposedly driving U.S. [foreign] policy now.

Jewish People Policy Planning Institute (JPPPI)
http://www.jpppi.org.il/

Jewish Agency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Agency_for_Israel

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I forgot about some of those things. And I looked it up and it turns out he did support the Iraq war, contrary to what I had believed. Agreed though, not fair to compare him to Pipes or an Elliott Abrams.

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As was stated by RTBG and DB, and assuming Obama means what he says and says what he means, the Military option has "never left the table". Joe Klein's remark that it is back on the table means he either never believed Obama to begin with or just hoped that Obama would forget that unacceptable really means unacceptable.

I'm not sure MJ, what you mean by the US might not "let" Israel attack Iran. I think Israel has always said, and its pretty believable, that Israel will defend itself against any existential threat, come what may. We could threaten Israel with sanctions or pull the financial plug on them or whatever, but I don't think anyone doubts that if it came down to losing aid or ceasing to exist that they would choose the former.

If there are doubts about them needing our military assistance, or flyover rights, the Saudis took care of that last month when they granted flyover rights to Israel in the case of an airstrike on Iran. There have been some denials in the royal family, but it is generally accepted that the denials are show.

If their motivations are surprising, consider that Saudi Arabia and the other Sunni gulf states are much more terrified of Iran than they are of Israel. Saddam spent 20 years playing on their fears of Iran and the US has quietly reminded them that Iraq is the bulwark that keeps Iranian tanks from reaching the Red Sea.

If Obama says a Nuclear Iran is unacceptable, don't you think he means it. And doesn't it make sense that Israel is even more serious about the true meaning of the word "Unacceptable". The Military option has never left the table and if we don't do it, Israel will.

If anyone is thinking that the US would actually attack Israeli planes en route, in airspace that is within Saudi Arabia or over the Persian Gulf, then I guess the word "let" comes into play, but that would be truly insane and an act of war against Israel. That is insane.

War will be made on Iran and only they can stop it. They won't.

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There is only one solution, and that solution IS NOT WAR either to satisfy the warmongers in Washington or TelAviv.

That solution is A NUCLEAR WEAPONS FREE MIDDLE EAST that includes all states in the region, specifically ISRAEL and IRAN.

Let the arms manufacturers gain their profits elsewhere.

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Who "get's it?" is my favorite fable for the day. Iran, Israel, the United States, or the Republic of Mexico.

In the olden days, the oil and gas boyz kept insisting to the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton admins that each had to send the Marines into Mexico, in order to cure the 'corruption' while privatizing Mexico's oil and gas industry. With Bush43, these Boyz got a thrill down their legs.

Today, we all should be quite skeptical of what we are seeing and hearing, since none of it is coming via the usual channels utilized by the oil and gas industry.

Jaango

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MJ, You seem to be trying to disprove Krauthammer's statement about the UAE ambassador's statement by saying that he has repudiated his own statement. His statements were lengthy, specific and made in public. Rep. Jane Harman witnessed them as did Ambassador Bolton. Could you at least supply a link or an explanation why you would believe that this ambassador did not mean what he said.

The Saudis and the Gulf states have made clear and significant gestures that they both support an attack on Iran, because they consider Iran a major threat. Both the UAE and the Saudi government regularly make statements and later repudiate their own statements as a way to cover their butts. In the period of a month we have seen this exact same phenomenon happen in two arab countries on the same subject and you want us to think this is just a coincidence?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you will be able to supply some sort of believable proof. Until then Krauthammer, Harmon, the Atlantic and Bolton remain the more believable witnesses.


And here's your Friday warmongering from Krauthammer. He says it's not true that only neocons want war. So does the ambassador from the United Arab Emirates (who has since repudiated the report Kraut refers to).

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[Crickets chirping]

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OK, MJ, I made a mistake in giving you the benefit of the doubt. It appears you have absolutely no evidence or even a believable premise to back up your premise about the Ambassador, which basically undercuts the entire premise of your post.

Since your post has been proven to be nothing more than a rant about the way you wish things were rather than a reflection of reality based on facts and evidence, I recommend you retract your previous remarks.

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Raise your hand if you can remember the last time Iran was the aggressor in a cross-border military conflict.

Me neither.

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