Beware Racial Conspiracy Mongers -- on All Sides
The New Republic recently published (unwittingly, no doubt) a right-wing alarm about a curse that's supposedly been cast on African-Americans and all of us by the leftist-activist professors Frances Fox Piven and Richard Cloward, who, their critics say, tried to bring down capitalism by flooding the welfare rolls in the 1960s.
TNR's purveyor of this long-exhausted half-truth is John McWhorter, a young black linguist-turned-conservative racial bargainer who casts Piven and Cloward among the crackpots he'd love to erase from public memory: "Rarely in American history have people with such a destructive agenda [as Piven and Cloward] had such power over the lives of the innocent....., helping to ruin the lives of, for example, some of my relatives."
Such power? Wow! McWhorter is certainly on-message here with recent thunderings about Piven and Cloward by Glenn Beck and by the right-radical provocateur David Horowitz, who's everyone's source on the horrors perpetrated by these two. But there's a wrinkle: Horowitz's own source on Piven and Cloward was me -- in The Closest of Strangers, Chapter 3, "The Politics of Polarization." I know this because Horowitz told me so. And thereby hangs a tale and, with it, a sobering lesson.
Piven, Cloward and many on the left in those years were in thrall to an ideology about American capitalism's dependence on racism that carried an immense burden of truth. But it nevertheless needed some deconstruction, as I showed in my Chapter 3 and on pp. 159-162, drawing on my long immersion in inner-city Brooklyn. In 1990, soon after my reckoning was published, Horowitz, whom I did not know, called to tell me that he loved the book and had a black in-law who could testify to its profound truth.
Easing myself off the phone with a polite "Thanks, but no thanks," I didn't realize that I was about to learn the danger of racial truth-telling in polarized times. The Closest of Strangers was slammed by the Piven-oriented left and showered with sloppy wet kisses from neo-cons. That helped me to understand how George Orwell felt when he tried to tell the London left what was really going in within the anti-fascist struggle in Spain, which wasn't as pure a social movement as some young idealists believed -- and as cynical Stalinist operators wanted them to believe. For telling a more difficult truth, Orwell was promptly accused of giving aid and comfort to Franco and Hitler.
A lot of leftist ideology was similarly disingenuous in presenting black disruptions of America's postwar bourgeois and white working-class paradise as the cat's paw of revolutionary change. Most of America had, indeed, consigned blacks to a "reserve army of the unemployed." making their resistance to it a humane and liberal as well as progressive imperative, but Piven and Cloward's call for a racialized "Politics of Turmoil," which they celebrated in a book by that name, held no solutions for American political culture, unjust and hypocritical though that culture often was. They certainly offered no sound strategy for a socialist agenda by relying on a politics of racial paroxysm.
Neither, however were Piven and Cloward and their admirers the powerful, malevolent conspirators they're now being made out to be. They certainly weren't the main reasons why the liberal capitalist welfare state, such as it was, did so much damage to its supposed beneficiaries.
The Closest of Strangers makes all this clear, as it does some deep, formative, moralistic, ideological and tragic reasons why many on the left still cling to overly racialist strategies for tackling broader structural problems that, we now see, are engulfing millions of whites as well as blacks. Some on the left dismiss, as neo-liberal mystifications, Obama's reliance on less-confrontational approaches to race like those I'd been commending since the early 1990s. Back then, most people scoffed at them, except for some piously hypocritical conservatives who loved preaching black "moderation" for reasons of their own.
Obama's successes (such as they are), including his 2008 election, are maddening to racist losers. But so was the demise of segregation, which drove such losers to flail at liberals and to bomb black churches in the 1960s. That wasn't a reason for those who were winning, however painfully and slowly, to behave just like the losers, as a lot of racial protest artists certainly did.
Anyone who wants to consider these arguments more seriously than a blog post can do should read the book or at least this TPM column from the 2008 campaign, in which I assess what both well-meaning progressives and black conservatives such as Shelby Steele and, by implication, McWhorter.
I rather admired Steele's The Content of Our Character, published in 1990 just before The Closest of Strangers, and my book I quoted observations of his that were and remain profoundly right. In TPM, I sketch what those were, and where he's gone wrong. Real life is like that.
I rather admired McWhorter's Losing the Race, too, in a review for The Washington Monthly in 2000. But I cautioned McWhorter then against becoming the conservative-movement water-carrier that he is, at least in his facile New Republic piece, which also dismisses the Brazilian radical educator of the 1960s and early 1970s, Paolo Freire. Unlike Piven and Cloward, Freire has been one of my inspirations (as I once had occasion to explain by quoting Freire in a pained meditation on some of my early encounters with poverty, race, and a rich congressman in Brooklyn).
The frightening effects of conspiracy mongering about the Piven and Cloward should give McWhorter pause. Those effects are described in The Nation by Richard Kim, who also disproves any Piven-Cloward conspiracy by noting (as McWhorter did, too, but not in their defense) that The Nation itself published their manifesto for a revolution in welfare and income support quite openly in 1966.
But Kim's account also seems to me to carry an almost-eager anticipation of still worse from the right -- hoping, perhaps, that such eruptions will vindicate progressive virtue and wake everyone up to the real, right-wing dangers facing the country. It's almost as if each side is succumbing to the empty temptation to egg the other on.
To which I say, Beware stripping bare the Evil in others, unless you have a larger, longer-range strategy. Yes, the Evil Ones are out there. But just as George Kennan was right to urge containment of the Soviets rather than a desperate rollback, we keepers of the American civic-republican faith and flame had better develop new ways to stand strong against the racist and capitalist abuses without lashing out histrionically and widening William Butler Yeats' gyre.
LATE NOTE: The morning after this column was posted, a fragment of it was quoted to Piven on NPR's New York Station, WNYC, by show host Brian Lehrer. Here's the link. In response, Piven did an old-left dodge, calling me a "wobbler" between "the liberal left and the conservative right." She'll never understand that, as a civic-republican, I am occasionally scathing of both left and right, not because I think that both sides are equally bad but because Piven's left plays inexorably into the hands of the more-powerful right. They do it every time, and they know not what they do.
Someone who does know posted a comment on the WNYC site. "Jimmy of Staten Island," one of the New York City boroughs where many "Archie Bunkers" live isn't fodder for the Tea Party movement, but neither will he ever be reached by people who think as Piven does or who write him off as a racist or "enabler" of racists. Read what he says, below. And remember that the welfare-rights histrionics that Piven and Cloward touted as "the politics of turmoil" was a lot like the Tea Partying -- just as orchestrated and demagogic, despite Piven's pretensions otherwise.
Jimmy from Staten Island:
"Still a Democrat, still Union, but Lord Almighty, folks like Ms. Piven do little but alienate the folks in my local, and weaken their allegiance to the Democratic Party.
"Her 'strategy' to cause rifts within the voting blocs that make up Municipal Democratic Parties, ostensibly to force LBJ's hand, did nothing but bring about Nixon-Reagan, and the long-term kneecapping of the greater, national Democratic party.
"To still spout that 'rights' without 'responsibilities' is 'humiliating' is just sad, and does nothing to retain a cohesive Democratic majority."
I rest my case -- against Piven & Co. for being so hapless, but, even more, against Beck, Horowitz, and McWhorter for trying to make political hay out of their and others holding "such power over the lives of innocents," as McWhorter puts it. Only perversely hypocritical conservatives -- and perhaps a few well-meaning neo-liberals at The New Republic -- would fall for phony indignation like that.
But then, perhaps McWhorter will now trot out the relatives whose lives he says were ruined by Piven and Cloward's power, not by the capitalist racism they challenged so ineptly and counterproductively.
Apr. 06 2010 11:35 AM

















RE: "radical-right provocateur David Horowitz & sloppy wet kissing from neo-cons" - Jim Sleeper
MY COMMENT: Talk about a 'double whammy'. Thanks to you, I might well be permanently scarred! There is no telling how many times I will awake tonight in a state of acute panic and suffering from severe 'night sweats'. Columns like this should have a prominent warning about their containing explicit language and graphic violence!
April 5, 2010 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
jocuri mario did you have account there ?
January 29, 2011 6:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
stiri de ultima ora double whammy is not ok. trust me
March 19, 2011 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fine piece, as usual. But I do reject the seeming equivalence between violence-fomenting racists like Rush Limbaugh and those of us who view them the way, say, German social democrats viewed national socialists in 1930. ("It's almost as if each side is now feeling a temptation to egg the other on." )
American liberals, even left liberals, are not armed, do not threaten violence, and do not engage in incitement. As for the Limbaughites, we both know who they are. As Jews, how could we not?
(Not to say that Israel does not have their equivalent: fascists like Avigdor Lieberman).
Why not call racists and fascists who and what they are? Isn't it dangerous not to?
April 5, 2010 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ, when I criticize leftists and liberals for trying to fight racism the way that Piven, Cloward, and so many others we know did, and when I warn against crying "racist!", I'm not equating leftists and liberals who don't listen to me with the racists and proto-fascists they're trying to stop! I'm saying that they aren't going to succeed and that they'll bear some moral as well as tactical responsibility for blowing it, as Piven and Cloward did with their "politics of turmoil."
In politics, it isn't always wise to call everything by the name one is certain it deserves. Sometimes, yes. More often, no. And I say so because I lived with the backfiring of so much of what we thought was righteous and/or progressive anti-racism. It was a dead end, and the left lost twenty years kow-towing to some of the worst leaders who perpetrated it.
April 5, 2010 8:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree. I think that if Israelis on the left had flatout said that the rightwing rabbinate and its followers were inciting the murder of the Prime Minister, it might not have happened. When Netanyahu stood on the balcony and watched, smiling, as his followers marched around with their Rabin/Nazi placards, the stage was being set. Suppose the Israeli left and center used every means at their disposal to say that Netanyahu, the crazy rabbis, the crazy rightwing professors at Bar Ilan, the crazy settlers were, in fact, calling for assassination.
Would not that have been better? Could it have been worse?
I think the Limbaugh/Beck/Savage right here is inciting against the President (who is well protected) and also against Democrats in Congress and ordinary federal workers who are not.
I don't think we wait until they succeed before calling them out for being assassins and thugs and certainly racists.
If we believe it, we should say it.
And, frankly, I'd trade 20 years in the political wilderness for the 47 years following 11/22/1963. I don't think relative levels of D's and R's is very important compared to the threat posed by these people.
April 5, 2010 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ, I can agree that Fox and the Wall Street Journal and all the other Murdoch outlets are basically devoted to teaching Americans to fear and mistrust one another. In that way, they are definitely pushing this country toward violence, but not just along racial lines. If Hillary Clinton were president, many of them who are already really more deeply upset by what they think is happening to manliness than they are by racial integration would be yelling bloody murder, too. And I am in favor of calling them out on that -- from Murdoch on down.
But calling them out on that is a long way from pursuing Piven and Cloward's racialized "politics of turmoil," the demonization of which prompted by post and this discussion. Yes, the right-wing has demonized it, and they think it the perfect hit because they're attacking not two blacks but two white people for selling out blacks by keeping them dependent and on welfare. But the fact that the right wing demonized that policy doesn't mean it was a wise or good policy, and I'll say what I believe on that, just as you do!
I don't think that the Israel analogy is helpful. It's a much tighter society, even with all its divisions, and, as Bernie Avishai have pointed out, Israel and Palestine are roughly the size of greater Los Angeles. Well, Los Angeles became murderous, too, as we all remember during the Olympics there and apropos the Rodney King horror. That was a time to call out racism for what it was -- and black crime and rioting what it was.
April 5, 2010 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
yeah, much tighter society, with less than 60% even speaking the main language well ( 20% speak Arabic at home, 20% speak Russian at home and ca 15% speak Yiddish at home.)
April 6, 2010 10:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
This piece has so many references to articles and your prior books that it is difficult to make out at all what your point is.
Not being a fan of McWhorter to begin with I was hoping to hear your perspective. As it stands, all I can say is that I do agree with this:
"I cautioned McWhorter there against becoming the conservative-movement water-carrier that he did become and that he remains"
As an aside, I can also say McWhorter, is a self-hating biracial individual who has never come to grips with his own racial identity. Unlike Obama.
April 5, 2010 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're right about all those links, but a blog post is only a blog post, and since I can't reprise every argument I've made and piece of evidence I've known, I try to document what I can through the links for those who are really interested in pursuing it.
If I had to pick just two of them, I'd say, click on the link to the TPM column from the 2008 campaign, and also the link to the review I did in the Washington Monthly of McWhorter's book and one by Thomas Sowell.
The Closest of Strangers isn't on Googlebooks, but if you get a copy of it, read Chapter 3 for my assessment of Cloward and Piven.
April 5, 2010 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
So we shouldn't address it when they unmask themselves? I agree on not going on 'witch hunts' Jim but are you saying we should remain silent in the face of overt racism?
April 5, 2010 7:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, I'm certainly not saying that, Libertine. I'm saying that we should be wary of shouting that certain arrangements and people are "racist" when only a rather sophisticated analysis might support our claim that they are.
My closing sentences in the book Liberal Racism read, "Liberals must lead struggles against discrimination and abuse. But for those struggles to succeed, in all other endeavors liberals must let race go."
By that I mean that we should stop trying to color-code culture and policy, and even controversies over class difference, as much as we've tended to do it. We've done it because it seems to focus and highlight the evils we're facing in ways that anyone can understand, but actually what it does is block or distract the accused whites from any chance of seeing the larger economic abuses they are experiencing alongside blacks, even if in somewhat-different degrees.
Calling these people "racist" is a conversation stopper in a very destructive way, more often than not. But some liberals and leftists refuse to see this because, daunted by the immensity of the class problem, they feel clearer and more noble by reducing that problem to the obvious evil of racism, even in cases where racism isn't the independent variable or deepest cause of the problem and where, therefore, calling people "racist" permanently alienates potential allies.
And then we rationalize that blunder by claiming that those people's alienation from us just proves how racist they were, anyway. Anyone who has actually lived with this on the ground knows how much more complicated it is than that and why it's foolish to do what Piven and Cloward recommended. Instead I recommend Mark Naison's "White Boy," about his growing up amidst these dilemmas.
April 5, 2010 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, Jim, in the case of many tea baggers, for example, sophisticated analysis, in my estimation, isn't required. Are all of them racist? Nope. But that doesn't mitigate 'the company you keep' observation. I do criticize the tea baggers, and their corporate/political/news personality supporters, who don't denounce overt racists in their midst. To me they are nothing more than enablers.
You seem to be of the opinion that it serves no good purpose to call purveyors of racism racists. I am not looking for allies from the ranks of racists or anyone who enables racism. How many more racist "Obama the Witchdoctor" or "Obama the monkey" slurs do we have to hear and/or see before we say in 21st Century America this is unacceptable?
I am all for moving forward in the cause of racial equality in a calm, level headed and sophisticated way. I do think that well meaning liberal policies have inadvertently exacerbated racial inequality in our society. But that is independent from the need to address overt racism when it rears its ugly head.
April 5, 2010 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your sentence, "I am not looking for allies from the ranks of racists or anyone who enables racism," strikes me as the kind of sentence that is morally very satisfying to write but that also announces that one is avoiding politics and the complicated reality about people.
No one is saying that one should throw one's arm around someone who's shouting racist slurs and try to march together, but lumping all the others at those rallies under the category of "enablers" is a little like calling everyone who voted for Henry Wallace in 1948 a Communist fellow traveler. Henry Wallace (who had been FDR's vice president for a term and his secretary of commerce before that) was a somewhat dreamy but also a very deliberate "enabler" of Soviet policies and agendas, long after most people realized that Stalin's regime had become monstrous and enslaving. George McGovern and many others like him voted for Wallace in 1948. Should an anti-Communist draw the conclusions about McGovern similar to the ones you are drawing about "enablers" who go to a Tea Party rally?
April 6, 2010 5:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry to see you keep trotting out this outdated artifact of a strategy for progress in our country. I refer you please to Destor23's post today: "Like me, I'm a moderate."
April 5, 2010 9:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
The question we need to ask ourselves in a given situation is it the victory we seek defeat of the other or inclusion of the other.
A basic implication in much of the discourse dealing with the current tea party folks and right wingers is that they are racist and that is that. Issues like the HCR reform which have a short time between success and failure tends to facilitate the view that the strategy victory is to eliminate, delegitimize the opposition in any way one can. Find any weakness and pounce. If what we are dealing with are racist opponents who will never change, no time like the present to defeat them. I am guilty of this as the next person.
But in the wide spectrum of engagements that entail community growth, progress is made when we accept the idea that the racism, sexism, classism, homophobia, etc. is merely a mental oonstruct. Although years of cultural reiterations of affirmation to these paradigms for the individuals make them very robust, they are malable, capable of evolving.
The goal is to find the right environment, the right words and action of engagement. The more inclusive that environment, those words, these actions, the more likely we achieve success.
April 5, 2010 10:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very good points, Camus.
The "us" vs. "them". We do it even amongst ourselves on the left. When it comes to something as simple as health care, that we *all* need, you'd think we'd stop fighting for a moment.
It's my hope that will happen, and I'll try to remember this comment every time I react too quickly to the opposition, next time.
April 5, 2010 10:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
*poke*
April 5, 2010 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eggzelent...
April 5, 2010 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
hee. Now I'm prepared to join others down at community garden's compost pile and participate in some shared toiling of the earth.
April 6, 2010 8:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I agree with Camus here. See my response to Libertine just above; I think that Camus' comment is, in effect, a similar response.
If moral people intend to do anything more than satisfy their own moral cravings, they have to show political as well as moral judgment -- a difficult but necessary thing to do, as the two are often at odds. See Reinhold Niebuhr, "Moral Man and Immoral Society." He wrote it in the late 1930s, when he was both a socialist and an anti-Communist, both a Christian and a heard-headed political activist.
April 6, 2010 5:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I go back to the speech by Obama at Norte Dame, the notion of finding common ground even on the issues where we ultimately disagree, such as abortion.
Another way to look at what you are proposing here would be who did we have more respect for - those anti-abortionists in the audience who showed respect to Obama and let him speak or those who tried to disrupt the proceedings. Which of those two groups offer a better way forward for our country and communities collectively.
April 6, 2010 8:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your sentence, "I am not looking for allies from the ranks of racists or anyone who enables racism," strikes me as the kind of sentence that is morally very satisfying to write but that also announces that one is avoiding politics and the complicated reality about people.
No one is saying that one should throw one's arm around someone who's shouting racist slurs and try to march together, but lumping all the others at those rallies under the category of "enablers" is a little like calling everyone who voted for Henry Wallace in 1948 a Communist fellow traveler. Henry Wallace (who had been FDR's vice president for a term and his secretary of commerce before that, was a somewhat dreamy but also a very deliberate "enabler" of Soviet policies and agendas, long after most people could see that Stalin's regime had become monstrous and enslaving. But George McGovern and many others like him voted for Wallace. Should an anti-Communist draw the same conclusions about McGovern that you are drawing about people who show up at a Tea Party rally?
April 6, 2010 5:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oops, sorry that this one got posted twice, and this time in the wrong place.
April 6, 2010 5:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Forget the issue of racial animus for the time being. The larger issue is how progressives, who if they believe in anything believe in activist government, can find any basis for common political cause with the tea partiers and their small government, limited government, no government fanaticism? The fact that we share a general pissed-offitude doesn't help. Everyone is pissed-off
The patriot patrols want to drown the government in a bathtub, and then drown us. How do you build a bridge to that?
April 6, 2010 8:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the point is that for many in these folks, if one was able to get them into a real dialogue, they would see a role for government. And this beyond the anti-government health care person on medicare. In many cases, it is a matter of breaking through the floating notions and rhetoric that has them irrationally reacting to something labelled "socialist" by someone else. It is getting them to see that the idea of a fair wage in a safeworking environment, for instance, is a progressive idea, that without government interference we would be working 12 and 14 hour days 6 or 7 days a week with little compensation.
I think of the generally conservative labor union Democrats who if it wasn't for their exposure to the ideas of exploitation by corporate management would more than likely be right there at the tea party rallies.
They are indeed angry. Not only at government but big business and wall street. One can look at this as an opportunity to expand the consciousness of some of these folks by focusing on how do we get justice for main street.
I think to the Tin Win coalition in British Columbia, that was able to bring together loggers, First Nations, and environmentalists against the common "enemy" - multinational corporations (and their governmental enablers). If there were three groups who not only had bad blood between themselves, but also did not see one another as allies it was these three. But once they were able to sit down and talk, they all saw that in the long run and in many cases in the short run they had the same agenda.
April 6, 2010 9:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think this captures the spirit of the tea party. These folks are old-fashioned government haters of the most traditional sort. They hate government because the government taxes people, and then gives the money they take away from the people they tax to other people.
April 6, 2010 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
On one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, I believe that what many in the tea party want in the end is a sense of security regarding the quality of their lives, whether they can articulate that or not. In this sense, the challenge is similiar to getting people to realize that it is better to spend $1 in prevention than it is to spend $7 for incarceration, which would not only save money but avoid creating new victims of crime in their communit. Not easy, but possible. Undoing the years of rhetoric of "government is the problem" and "taxes are bad" won't happen overnight that is for dang sure.
April 7, 2010 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
So... Were Piven and Cloward - was the Left itself then and now - really interested in achieving racial equality in a capitalist democracy? Or were they more interested in worsening conditions to prompt revolution? In your post, you indicate early on that is McWhorter's proposal.
Historically, one of the obstacles to any progress on this issue is the Left's obstinance promoting revolution as solution - the only solution, in fact. There could be no equality in capitalist structure, and the Left tirelessly worked to prove this was true, undoing potential remedies, sabotaging rapprochement between disparate, antagonistic groups. To what extent have racial politics been aggravated by racists, and how much by followers of a political philosophy that tolerates no others, no compromise?
By making African-American issues the cat's paw of revolution, did the Left not consider American blacks mere pawns in their larger game?
And how much can we even address this subject - honestly?
April 6, 2010 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, the reason the US has the highest gini coefficient in the industrial world, and the reason African American average household net worth is 10% of the white equivalent, is because the left has been riding the wrong horse. If only Malcolm X had been like obama, the US would have been like Sweden.
You rock! I see the coming revolution is social science. Looking forward for your book deal with Rupert Murdoch.
April 6, 2010 10:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hyperbole, hyperbole, hyperbole...
A sprinkling of ad hominem attack...
...And no answer.
Typical.
April 6, 2010 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
The answer is "no".
Please, before we discuss tactics and what is the best way to achieve our common goals, can we first be clear about the goals? What "compromise" with the "other" seems fair to you? How much do you think is the "right" gap between the net worth of whites and that of African American households?
April 6, 2010 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whatever it is, Marxism won't get us there.
Here's the goal: We work toward a more equitable and just society implementing ideas that actually work, here, in the real world. This physical plane of reality - the one with atoms, gravity and hemi engines. As template for government and economics, Marxism is worthless; it failed, and the last century proved that.
Ideas that WORK, evildoer. Practically. Here.
April 6, 2010 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
As usual, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Marxism is a theoretical framework of analyzing political economy, and one of the most fruitful one, including today ( http://www.urpe.org/ ). Marxism is also a theoretical framework for telling history, also known as "historical materialism", and your ignorance notwithstanding it is going strong, because it beats the alternatives. It is going so strong that its insights are by now almost universally accepted by mainstream historians. You can read bits and pieces of Marxist analysis in the NYT. It's mainstream.
Struggles for justice fail all the time. It's normal to fail against superior odds. Then it starts over. You know how many times peasants rebelled against their lords and were defeated? Here's a super shortened list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peasant_revolts
They are thousands of people who work today for racial equality in the US. You don't like what they are doing? Fine. Do you even know what they are doing? Do you have a better idea? Go on, join! Do the kind of work that you think is useful. Say what it is at least. You haven't said a single thing except calling for more "compromise," which you refuse to define, and ranting about what you think is not useful, without showing the slightest effort to even know what it is that you are ranting against. What is not useful, specifically, people, statements, demands, actions, plans? WHAT?
April 6, 2010 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I feel like I'm standing in a cloudburst of soapboxes.
April 6, 2010 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
In other words, Curt, you have nothing to say on the subject. That's fine--neither do I. I can't make up my mind what to think about what Sleeper is saying, for instance.
April 6, 2010 9:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I somehow feel that discussions of race, and of battles between Right and Left-- and even the seemingly endless habitual and comfortable, bloody tribal pettiness between Jew and Arab-- mislead by focusing on the particulars and not the whole.
I have the sense that the world is somewhere in the process of a massive shift, not unlike that rolling shock of the industrial revolution near 300 years ago, and the two World Wars. We're running out of the fuels that created the former, and drove the competition that sparked the latter and so much strife since. Population is unsupportable, and the air is fouled and the water is filled with floating plastic and industrial garbage.
Yet we argue about the Left and Right ideas of 50 years ago?
Yeats wrote this in the immediate aftermath of WWI, and some think he was fearful of the effects on the old order represented by the Russian Revolution. Maybe.
But change, really big change, looms, and none of the old prescriptions and habits and favorite hatreds that we humans hold so dear will do us the least bit of good. We're just not ready.
Sorry to go all mystical and strange on a thread like this, but I just felt a shiver go up me spine and happened to stumble across the Yeats poem while looking for something else. Something massive and different is up ahead, "And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"
Indeed....
The Second Coming
William Butler Yeats
TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
April 6, 2010 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
i think evildoer has the right question when he asks:
"Please, before we discuss tactics and what is the best way to achieve our common goals, can we first be clear about the goals? What "compromise" with the "other" seems fair to you?"
It seems to me that Camus and Monsieur Sleeper are suggesting that economic inequality in general, and not that between different "races," is a more effective means of organizing the masses into a working coalition. I do not think that they make a convincing arguement here but monsieur Sleeper may do so at one of his various links- I guess i will have to investigate if I wish to engage in a meaningful discussion here.
April 6, 2010 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would point to the Harlem Children's Zone led by Geoffrey Canada, one of those successful programs in dealing with economic inequality in the African American community.
What is significant, I think, is that they do not mention African Americans specifically. It is all about helping low income families.
http://www.hcz.org/about-us/history
"...HCZ continues to offer innovative, efficiently run programs that are aimed at doing nothing less than breaking the cycle of generational poverty for the thousands of children and families it serves."
That the people they serve are almost entirely African American is irrelavant to model of engagement. In this case in Harlem it is African American. The next on may be white, or Hispanic, or Asian.
There is approach catching on in Europe regarding dealing with low income population. Rather than approach it strictly from an income point of view, it looks at the totality of their social exclusion - from education, health care, transportation, opportunities for employment, etc. This looks at the problem about providing access and support to those excluded regardless of urban/rural, ethnicity, religion or any other category one wants to put the people in.
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