AIPAC's Secret Talking Points On Iran and Palestinians For Next Week's Lobbyfest
THIS AIPAC inside document comes from Americans from Peace Now. For some reason, I don't have much access to their stuff. H/T APN
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I understand what is going on at AIPAC right now. I know it because I volunteered there for a year back in the 1970's and then had a senior job there in the 1980's. I left for a better job. But I left on great terms. My then-boss, Tom Dine, the Executive Director is a good friend and took me with him when he left AIPAC for the Clinton Administration.
But times and people change. So do institutions. Back then AIPAC was less rigid. Yes, it rarely, if ever, deviated from the Israeli line. But, one, the Israeli line was not as hard right as it is today. And both AIPAC and even rightwing Israeli prime ministers (like Menachem Begin) tried to avoid conflicts with American administrations.
When I worked at AIPAC the first time, its founder and executive director, I.L. Kenen, told me this: "My worst fear is that a President of the United States will get on television and say to the American people, 'I have made the following request to the Israeli government.' He then describes it and says that Israel's refusal to accept it would harm US interests. At that point, the Israeli government would fold and so would AIPAC."
I said, "But what if it was a life or death issue?"
He said, "But it never would be. America will never ask Israel to commit suicide. If it happens, it would be a demand to get out of the occupied territories or divide Jerusalem or something like that. Life or death it would never be. Still, it's my biggest fear."
That theory was tested a few years later when conflict came and even Begin backed down in the face of a resolute President. (From Lou Cannon's biography of Reagan, "The Role Of A Lifetime").
In 1982, the Israeli air force was bombing Beirut relentlessly. President Ronald Reagan saw the destruction and carnage on television and, on his own initiative, picked up the phone and called Begin. Reagan National Security Council staffer Geoffrey Kemp remembers the call:
"'Menachem, this is a holocaust' Reagan said.
'Mr. President, I think I know what a holocaust is' Begin replied, in a voice that Kemp would recall as 'dripping with sarcasm.' According to [Deputy Chief-Of-Staff Michael] Deaver, Reagan continued 'in the plainest of language' to tell Begin what he thought about the bombing of Beirut, concluding by saying, 'It has gone too far. You must stop it'
Twenty-minutes later Begin called back and said he had issued the order to [General Ariel] Sharon to stop the bombings. After he had hung up the phone Reagan said to Deaver, 'I didn't know I had that kind of power.'"
But he did. And so does Obama. And that was at a time, not quite two years into his Presidency, when Reagan's poll numbers were so low that it was thought he might quit after one term. Two years later he won 49 states.
Reagan's decisiveness, and its effect, is the happy part of the story. The terrible part is that if Reagan had flat-out told Begin "don't even think of invading Lebanon," tens of thousands of lives would have been saved, most of them Lebanese and Palestinian.
1,221 Israelis were killed between 1982 and 2000 (when the last Israeli soldier left Lebanon). They left after endless protests led by bereaved parents made a continued Lebanon involvement politically impossible. They left unilaterally and, after 18 years and all those dead, they left with nothing to show for all the destruction.
Luckily Reagan made the bombing stop. Too bad he didn't block the entire disaster.
Of course, AIPAC opposed - as it always opposes - US pressure on Israel.
And it is undaunted by the fact that US pressure, if Israel had yielded to it, would have spared thousands of Israeli lives. If the Israelis had listened to President Nixon in 1971, who told them to withdraw from the banks of the Suez Canal and accept President Sadat's peace offer, there would have been no Yom Kippur War. Israel would have given up a fraction of the Egyptian territory that it ended up yielding in peace negotiations five years later. Instead, Israel said no, lost all the Egyptian territory it held, along with 3,000 young men.
Naturally, the lobby in this country backed Israel in that refusal.
The lobby wants to paper over the differences the United States has with Israel - especially before the big AIPAC rally this weekend and certainly before the President meets with Prime Minister Netanyahu.
I know, from my years at AIPAC, that it wants Obama to back down. I also know that even the slightest retreat from our demands will be presented by AIPAC as a great victory. "All is back to normal," AIPAC will say. And the whole world - especially Israelis and Palestinians - will see us as chumps.
The latest polls show Obama's position favored (by a 2-1 margin) over Netanyahu's here. In Israel, they are pretty much tied, with Obama far more popular than previously believed.
The shift in US opinion - from seemingly solid support for Israeli positions to a 2-1 support for Obama's hard line on settlements - indicates that General David Petraeus' statements have had a powerful effect. Once Petraeus said that perceptions of American one-sidedness put American lives in Afghanistan and Iraq at risk, the game was essentially over.
Unless the United States blinks.
I know that because I know AIPAC. Right now they are terribly worried that Obama will not back down. No matter how tough the AIPAC big shots talk to Rahm Emanuel, Hillary Clinton, or David Axelrod, they are very, very nervous. The are desperate that the US back down for many reasons, not so much about Israel, which needs peace, but for AIPAC and its standing as the most powerful foreign policy lobby in Washington.
The President and Secretary of State must not back down. Not in action. Not in words. If they cave, the Israeli-Palestinian peace process is finished for the duration of this Presidency. Like health care reform, Obama must win it now or lose it forever.
***
Also read this piece from Foreign Policy by Henry Siegman. Siegman, an ordained Orthodox rabbi, is director of the U.S./Middle East Project and a visiting research professor at the University of London. He is also the former national director of the American Jewish Congress.
I think Hillary Clinton made a mistake in over emphasizing the strength of the alliance between Israel and the US. Instead, she should have simply stated that Israel remains an ally, one that we value, but one that we will call out when they do something that is against our interests, just as we would with any other country.
The day when we stop touting Israel as our lone ally in the Middle East has to come and come very soon.
March 19, 2010 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
is there are a ratified mutual defense treaty between the US and israel? the answer is no. for there to be such a treaty, israel would have to demarcate it's borders - something it refuses to do. the US has no binding legal obligation to defend israel.
sorry, you can’t create an ally by just repeating the word over and over. but that what has been done.
March 19, 2010 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why insist on 'mutual'? Can anybody seriously expect the Tel ’Avîv government to help Uncle Sam out with the crimmigrant invasion from Mexico and south of the border generally?
Or if the Russians decided suddenly to take back beautiful downtown Wasilla?
Or . . . .
Anyway, 'ally' is an inaccurate expression of the tail-dog relationship in question. It may be best to think back to the 1917-1918 troubles and consider that M. de Nétanyahou et Cie. graciously allow the United States of America to call ourselves "an Associated Power."
‘Alliance’ proper would imply an equality of contracting parties. There can be no question of that when the T. A. folks are at least as much superior to ourselves as President Wilson was to those greedy, self-servicing Old Euros.
Happy days.
March 20, 2010 2:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
When I worked at AIPAC the first time, its founder and executive director, I.L. Kenen, told me this: "My worst fear is that a President of the United States will get on television and say to the American people, 'I have made the following request to the Israeli government.' He then describes it and says that Israel's refusal to accept it would harm US interests. At that point, the Israeli government would fold and so would AIPAC."
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December 13, 2010 10:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
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February 12, 2011 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
You don't have any real ally in the middle east , Stop fantasize!
The Primitive Saudi monarchy , Egyptian dictator , Jordan Bedouin Monarchy are puppets of the USA and sponsored by them -
For the ppl in those countries and not the governments - you are just "Infidels" , "Crusaders" , " apes and pigs "
Very famous phrase the Muslims use :
"After Saturday comes Sunday "
March 19, 2010 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't have any real ally in the middle east...
Including Israel, which was made during Biden's recent visit.
March 19, 2010 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did not know that the Arabs were such a primitive lot.
This is an excellent way of justifying apartheid.
"Primitive Negroes", who must be enslaved.
Right, Nazi you are.
March 20, 2010 4:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
And the Arabs are going to be labeled as lot more primitive as the Quartet really starts to push on the peace process. Just wait and see.
I support a two-state solution but have zero expectation it will happen. So long as American politicians claim the relationship between America and Israel is "unbreakable," why would a rational Israel make the sacrifice? Have you ever negotiated with someone this way, "I'm going to buy that TV regardless of the price, but would you lower it anyway?"
Moreover, the "peace process" is good for Israel. By engaging in them the country gets the benefits of peace with the Palestinians, including international support from the US and the EU and cabinet level meetings with various EU governments, and favorable access to the EU market. These perks are not contingent on the peace process producing a Palestinian state, merely that Israel engages in negotiations.
The West has internalized the Dennis Ross Delusion. That delusion states that Israel will only make sacrifices when Israel feels secure. Notice that there is no corollary delusion for Russia, China, or Iran. They are supposed to change, regardless of their level of angst.
So on we go. We pretend that "talks" will produce a Palestinian State. The settlements will continue to metasticize on Palestinian land. And America will keep brokering (ineffectively) for that TV.
March 20, 2010 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Saudis are not primitives , really ?
Cutting hands of heifers and not letting women drive is very Liberal thing ? you FRICK !!
Yes , the Are fucking Bastards , Primitives, , Barbarians with animalistic characters ,
You want to call to this REALITY a racism Be my guest
And next time do not Change the subject by sticking Blacks , Whites issues
March 20, 2010 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
good pt i mean when u demean the ppl then atrocity become expected..i do agree with amanda1 that this conflict will continue..
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August 1, 2010 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
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August 1, 2010 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, the mistake people make is trying to get Americans to give a damn about Palestinians. If you want to combat AIPAC, you need to convince Americans that AIPAC is working against AMERICAN interests. That is getting increasingly easy to do.
March 19, 2010 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it happens, it would be a demand to get out of the occupied territories or divide Jerusalem or something like that. Life or death it would never be. Still, it's my biggest fear.
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July 4, 2010 7:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hoppycalif2! I agree with you. It's completely a mistake from Hilary Clinton.
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August 16, 2010 6:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
agreed. demand to get out of the occupied territories. fear would be everywhere.
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December 3, 2010 8:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
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August 19, 2010 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
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August 22, 2010 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish all of this fighting would just stop! Very tired of it. Can't we all just get along?
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September 9, 2010 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Hillary did make a big error in saying that Isreal is our only ally. I'd love it if she would have been a bit more diplomatic or would have shared a few more countries instead of flirting with danger in this manner. But its never too late though.
October 11, 2010 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
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December 3, 2010 8:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
everyone thinks obama is weak.
the republicans dont fear him.
"no one in washington is afraid of him", Bill Moyers.
he has yet to stand up to anyone except a few progressives.(dean, kucinich)
Netanyahu and the israeli government insult him.
aipac ,israels agents, use their influence to get members of the American congress to attack him while they support the policy of a foreign government that puts the lives of American soldiers in added danger.
And we are supposed to settle for the hope that he doesnt back down?
what is wrong with this picture?
March 19, 2010 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
"If the Israelis had listened to President Nixon in 1971, who told them to withdraw from the banks of the Suez Canal and accept President Sadat's peace offer, there would have been no Yom Kippur War."
At leas do not lie and rewrite History ?
Honesty is the minimum
March 19, 2010 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here'e some honesty. You'll be tossed out of the West Bank within 5 years.
March 19, 2010 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
YEE YEEE
We Will wait & see
meanwhile Keep barking !
March 20, 2010 5:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
No need for any out-tossing: this rude barking dog is far too timid to actually go to the West Bank where the really rabid hounds are.
March 20, 2010 5:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Lord Haw Haw ?!
March 20, 2010 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
anyone really believe this conflict will be resolved?
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August 1, 2010 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
And an article in the current (next?) New Yorker concludes:
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2010/03/29/100329taco_talk_remnick
March 19, 2010 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for this useful information.
There is officially insistent but polite guy AIPAC and then there are his many nastier bad guy henchman. They are fanatical, unscrupulous, and hooked on deceit.
One of the best services you can do, MJ, since you've been either in the loop or in the information net for many years, is to tell the real history of what happened over these decades.
I am long past sick and tired (for one example) at the persistent big lie that the peace negotiations collapsed in 2000 because Arafat refused some incredibly generous offer of Barak. It is quite true that Barak went further out an limb than Arafat did, but I was reading the newspapers every day then and remember damn well that that there was a mixture of give and take and stubborn intransigence on both sides, and what REALLY sank the peace process was not Arafat's resort to terrorism, as idiotic and counterproductive for his people as that surely was, but the election of Sharon (and his soon-to-be-lap-dog GW Bush) who not only had no intention of EVER negotiating, but was skillful at setting one trap after the next for the vain decrepit Arafat (starting of course with the infamous, but NEVER acknowledged by AIPAC and its nastier co-tools, provocation on the Temple Mount) and ruthlessly blasting the hell out of the occupied territories at every possible opportunity. Neither Israelis nor American Jews are well served by the incessant lie-filled fake history that claims quite loudly and idiotically that it was all the Palestinians' fault things went sour.
Please continue to speak out, the deceit-masters have been getting a mostly free ride for far too long.
March 19, 2010 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will do it. Have you read Clayton Swisher's THE TRUTH ABOUT CAMP DAVID. It blows the whole "Barak's generous offer" myth to smithereens.
March 19, 2010 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, I'll look it up. I meanwhile found some good material on the 1940s at Mondoweiss' website. A very different era (as Mythbuster I think pointed out, it was a time when nobody had ever heard of Elvis) and less relevant to today, but it is still helpful to get the history straight.
Keep up the good work, MJ. In my googling, your posts kept coming up. It is an important information service you are providing. Thanks, PT
March 19, 2010 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. Funny, I'm always tring to check my facts but, half the time when I google, it's just me I come up with.
I do feel like I'm producing a counter-narrative online to AIPAC's.
Worth noting. I produce much more and infinitely better material than AIPAC because my job is to try to persuade.
AIPAC just threatens. No need for material, just reminders of who the donors are.
What a system!
March 19, 2010 10:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but your goal is to seek the truth, which is more powerful that a thousand dishonest talking points...
BTW, your minority position here is the majority position outside the US...and the Marshall Islands (our ever reliable UN ally).
March 20, 2010 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ. What is the best thing we can we do to counter the AIPAC and Christian Zionist lobbying campaigns against Obama? I know a lot of people would pitch in for a counter-effort.
March 19, 2010 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing -- see Howard Dean's experience in Iowa in 2004 when he called for "evenhandedness" in U.S. policy vis-a-vis Israeli-Palestinian relations.
Pro-Israeli contributors funded the stealth 527 organization called "Americans for Jobs & Healthcare" which blanketed the Iowa media with vicious anti-Dean ads.
There are rules to America’s presidential campaign season. The Iowa caucus comes first and the New Hampshire primaries come next. The person with the most votes wins. And candidates, unless they are named Kucinich, Gravel or Paul, must stay put within the four walls of the house that Aipac built — that is, within the walls of pro-Israel orthodoxy. The Jewish Daily Forward 1/16/2008
And every Congressperson knows that what holds true for Iowa primaries holds doubly true for the primary in his/her district and ultimately, the election.
March 19, 2010 8:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: “What is the best thing we can we do to counter the AIPAC and Christian Zionist lobbying campaigns against Obama?” – Mad As Hell
MY COMMENT: I sent an E-mail urging my representatives to support the Obama Administration’s call to end Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem. You can send your own E-mail today by clicking on this link – http://www.aaper.org/endthesettlements!
ALTERNATE LINK – http://www.aaper.org/c.quIXL8MPJpE/b.5868033/k.812A/Tell_Congress_to_Support_an_End_to_Settlements/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx
P.S. What is AAPER? The American Association for Palestinian Equal Rights (AAPER) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit educational organization whose mission is to inform the American public about the human and national rights of the Palestinian people and the role of the United States in the Middle East.
March 19, 2010 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mad: Write your Representative and Senators, and pass the word to likeminded friends. When the pro-Obama mail exceeds the pro-AIPAC mail the Congressional wimps will start to flip. This is especially true if your reps are Democrats. The Dems are finally becoming sensitive to the fact that they've been blowing it for Obama by not rallying around him the way Republicans do for their leaders. And if Obama suffers, they suffer doubly. They need to close ranks on foreign policy where Obama still looks rather good domestically and abroad compared to the Cheney-Bush horror. There may be not much better than a snowball's chance in hell of actually closing a Mideast peace deal until the Israelis kick out Netanyahu, but an American President NOT being a door mat for Israel has something of a novelty appeal internationally.
March 19, 2010 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with MJ below (thanks for chiming in), who anyway knows better than I, that in-person comments and letters to the editor are much more effective than letters and e-mails to members of Congress (though the latter are better than nothing at all). Keep them short, polite, and to the point.
March 19, 2010 9:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the best thing, based on my years of service on Capitol Hill starting with the Garfield administration, is to corner your member of Congress at home. If you don't like their stand, tell them at town meetings or go see them with an appt. Letters are worthless. Since the anthrax scare, paper letters take months to get through. E-mails don't do much either.
Find them (easier with House members) and say, "Congressman Grayson, I find your statements on Gitmo etc cynical considering your blind support for Netanyahu." Etc.
And then write letters to the editor of your local paper about the legislator. Critical letters in local papers, including local weeklies and alternative papers, drive them insane.
Go public. Let them know you know what hypocrites they are. If they are. If Lois Capps of Santa Barbara or Keiith Ellison is your repm (or any of the other good ones, you are ok).
My Congressman Chris Van Hollen is thought of as a liberal. But on Israel, he is a rightwing Republican. Bur right next door is Donna Edwards. She is the opposite.
Some of you are lucky in your representation. Not me. Van Hollen, Mikulski and Cardin are all AIPACers.
March 19, 2010 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is the AIPAC letter from the House of Representatives started by Kirk and Carney. Apparently, there is a similar letter by Boxer and Isaacson from the Senate. The letter calls for Israel to keep E. Jerusalem and says:
"While the recent controversy is regrettable, it should not overshadow the importance of the US-Israel alliance. A zoning dispute over 143 acres of Jewish land in Israel's capital
city should not eclipse the growing threat we face from Iran.
To promote Middle East peace and defend America and Israel's national security, we urge your Administration to refrain from further public criticism of Israel and to focus on
more pressing issues affecting this vital relationship, such as signing and enforcing the Iran Refined Petroleum Sanctions Act when it comes to your desk."
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Kirk-Carney_Israel.pdf
It seems to me that this kind of thing makes the US look like anything but an honest broker. And talk about prejudging the outcome of E. Jerusalem! Oh brother.
March 19, 2010 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Boxer is so rightwing on all this. I wonder if she has a clue that her hawkishness on Israel makes her dovishness on America look cynical.
March 19, 2010 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know how indicative it might be, but when I googled to try see where Boxer stands on the current brouhaha, all I came up with was hardline Republican / Likudnik / Jesus Freak sites blasting her for siding with the terrible Obama instead of "defending Israel."
March 19, 2010 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. That would be great. Hard to believe. But hope springs eternal.
March 19, 2010 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the tips on how to counteract AIPAC. You and I share the same set of representatives. Sorry to hear they are all AIPAC because I like them all. Aren't you glad that Maryland seceded from the South today?
March 20, 2010 1:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, we just need to change the state song. Crazy racist lyrics.
March 20, 2010 8:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "The President and Secretary of State must not back down. Not in action. Not in words." - M.J.
SEE:A Serial Obstructionist, By Rachel Tabachnick, zeek.forward.com
(EXCERPTS)...Shortly after Vice President Joe Biden’s arrival in Israel, Netanyahu and Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat were the headliners at Pastor John Hagee’s two-hour Christians United for Israel (CUFI) extravaganza at the Jerusalem Convention Center...
...Monday’s CUFI production was based on the concept of “biblical Zionism,” or the belief that God mandates nonnegotiable borders of Israel, and any leader or nation who thwarts this divine plan will be cursed. Before introducing Netanyahu, Hagee stated, “World leaders do not have the authority to tell Israel and the Jewish people what they can and can not do in Jerusalem.” He added, “Israel does not exist because of a decree of the United Nations in 1948. Israel exists because of a covenant God made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob…The settlements are not the problem.”
In his books and sermons Hagee has promoted a “greater Israel,” that will reclaim all of Israel’s former biblical territory, stating “In modern terms, Israel rightfully owns all of present-day Israel, all of Lebanon, half of Syria, two-thirds of Jordan, all of Iraq, and the northern portion of Saudi Arabia.”
At the Jerusalem CUFI event Hagee described Ahmadinejad as the Hitler of the Middle East who could turn the world upside down in 24 hours, words similar to those he made when lobbying for the attack on Iraq…
…During a performance by singer Dudu Fisher, the God TV camera panned to the audience and centered on Joel Bell, leader of Worldwide Biblical Zionists. WBZ is currently building a center in Sha’ar Benjamin for “facilitating absorption” of Christian Zionists into the West Bank. It was established after a joint meetingheld in Texas of the Board of Governors of World Likud led by Danny Danon, and World Evangelical Zionists led by Joel Bell. Speakers included ZOA’s Morton Klein….
ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://zeek.forward.com/articles/116518/
March 19, 2010 8:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
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August 12, 2010 7:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
MJ, I hope they're on the same page as you in the administration.
March 19, 2010 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have no idea. A part of me expects to be disappointed.
March 19, 2010 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
And the other part?
March 20, 2010 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Robert Fisk tells a good story about Reagan's special envoy, Philip Habib, who arrived in Beirut during the 1982 shelling by the IDF.
Incensed, he gets put through to the IDF.
Habib: Stop shelling the city!
IDF: We aren't shelling Beirut....
Habib: !!! I'm in Beirut right now, and I can see it happening!
IDF: You must be mistaken...
Outraged, he forces Sharon to take his call.
Habib: Stop shelling the city!
Sharon: We aren't shelling Beirut....
Habib: !!! I'm in Beirut right now, and I can see it happening!
Sharon: You must be mistaken...
By this stage Habib is so enraged he can not trust himself to speak; he simply walks across his hotel room, opens the window, and shoves the phone out that window so Sharon can HEAR the explosions.
Q: And how did Sharon respond?
A: He accused Habib of rudeness, and then hung up the phone.
Needless to say, Habib's next phonecall was to Ronald Reagan, and that's where your story takes up the tale....
March 20, 2010 1:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Johnboy. What is the book covering this much-denied and buried history?
March 20, 2010 5:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fisk wrote this is The Independent in 2005:
Not long before he died, I asked Habib why he didn't stop the bloodshed. "I could see it," he said. "I told the Israelis they were destroying the city, that they were firing non-stop. They just said they weren't. They said they werent doing that. I called Sharon on the phone. He said it wasnt true. That damned man said to me on the phone that what I saw happening wasn't happening. So I held the telephone out of the window so he could hear the explosions. Then he said to me: 'What kind of conversation is this where you hold a telephone out of a window?'"
That's what an American diplomat has to deal with then he's dealing with a Likudnik.
How many countries think that they can do that to a PRESIDENTIAL ENVOY and not get their arse kicked from pillar to post by the POTUS himself?
Only Israel, and then it has the chutzpah to act annoyed and amazed when its backside is bruised.
March 20, 2010 6:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
How many countries think that they can do that?
Few of course.
This may be partially explainable in terms of a kind of vicious circle of behaving like assholes, being expected to behave as such, being treated as such, expecting to be treated as such, and therefore cynically assuming, well then make the most of it.
I think that would account for Sharon and Netanyahu, the international face of Israel for the nearly the entire past decade and a half. Of course the other side of this coin is the ongoing rationalization of being opposed by a Palestinian side whose vicious circle of fiendish self-centeredness is comparably entrenched, although much less powerful, significant, and having a greater excuse of being relegated to indefinite non-autonomy.
March 20, 2010 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you look at the situation NOW you are comparing Netanyahu, Barak, Yishai and Lieberman against Abbas, Fayyad, Erekat and Qurei.
Weighing up the venality of those two sides is simply no contest: the Israeli side is a collection of spivs, crooks, and racist bullyboys of an entirely different order of magnitude to the Palestinians.
I'm not saying that the Pals are saints - far from it - but, honestly, they are up against the national equivalent of an East End gang running a protection racket.
March 20, 2010 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Palestinians are too weak to be venal. That is not good news for the settler-terrorists; they prefer more confrontation and violence. Ergo the hype over Iran which they hope will strengthen the hardline clerics in Teheran and help them get the bomb faster. Once the Persians go fully nuclear, the settlers are in Warsaw Ghetto 7th Heaven: the "world's worst terrorists" supported by the "world's worst weapons" arrayed against the brave existential latter-day Warsaw fighters.
March 21, 2010 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
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WHAT I HOPE THAT HRC WILL SAY TO AIPAC:
'As an unelected minority group, you need to recognize that sooner or later - but probably sooner than you think - the American people are going to decide that they want their country - our country - run by democratically elected representatives in accordance with the Constitution and not by those who act for a foreign state.
Zionism, your political creed, is not the business of America. We pay our taxes to be used for the benefit of the United States not for the benefit of your holiday destination where you have your second home.
It is your first home, your primary residence, that should be your focus. The country that gave you an education and a business or a job.
Split loyalties are like split avocados, they grow mold and contaminate others.'
March 20, 2010 4:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Colin,
When prominent Jewish leaders and spokespersons in America say things like this in prominent forums (and no offense at all, but I am thinking of greater prominence than TPM), and on an ongoing basis, when diversity reclaims its rightful place on these issues within venerable tribes, when tribal elders solidly acknowledge the need to dethrone renegade amoralism that has supplanted ethical principles for too long, when every slick propaganda video like the one featured above is countered by one showing the hard-hitting truth of what IDF-backed Israeli settlers are doing to the land, to its prior inhabitants, and to the soul of Judaism, when Jewish American William Lloyd Garrisons call clearly and repeatedly for the abolition of AIPAC...("I will not equivocate, I will not excuse, and I will be heard")...
leading U.S. politicians will eventually follow suit.
Needless say to, we have quite a way yet to go. America's slaves were emancipated in 1963. We are in about 1819 with the Missouri Compromise of 1820 coming up. Let's hope this journey can be shorter than 44 more years, and with a minimum of violence.
March 20, 2010 5:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
I completely agree with you Colindale. the American people are going to decide that they want their country run by a democratically appropriate election program. Why AIPAC and purity rings need talking points on Iran and Palenstine are beyond me. Not even sure why they are considered "secret" because they are far from it
July 25, 2010 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
PT: Amen to that. But I have lived a long time, in many places, with many peoples. I have learned the lessons from the 1938 pogrom in Germany through to Mandela's eventual victory in SA and Obama's election to the presidency, that events can happen very quickly. That established regimes can fall overnight and that although bigotry, bribery and corruption can flourish sometimes for years, eventually they are flushed-out into the searing light of day and the cold steel of justice.
I have also learned that the capacity of individuals to persuade themselves that to kill or oppress others is acceptable if in 'defense of self' or in 'defense of racial purity' or in defense of cabbages, is infinite, albeit that these 'dangers' are wholly fictitious.
We know that these individuals act solely out of self-interest. They act to secure or to enrich themselves and their families, or purely for the gratification of personal power and influence.
But the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were enacted in order to protect society from just such acts of self-interest. And they can, provided that citizens use the powers that they already have.
So many Americans have died in the fight(s) for freedom, yet today we collude in the virtual imprisonment of over a million people in Gaza at the behest of a handful of those same individuals acting our of that same self-interest.
And when a fact-finding mission reports incidents of war crime and crimes against humanity, these same individuals ensure that the report is discredited and that those responsible go free.
One day, soon, America will awake. I have no doubt.
March 20, 2010 6:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Self-interest is the key to a change in American policy.
America will awake when it is clear to the silent majority that unquestioning support for Israel is not in their own self-interest.
Americans are not going to care about Palestinians. It doesn't matter how many Palestinians Israel harms when it comes to American opinion. You convince Americans by showing them how many Americans are harmed.
March 20, 2010 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's true, BLUEBELL, that Americans don't necessarily care about Palestinians. I fully accept that. But they do care about their families and about the essential freedom of the individual. That is why they died on the Normandy Beaches in their hundreds, and because they believed in God, their Country and democracy. And they still do. And I do and, no doubt, you do.
But there are many who believe otherwise. There are those politicians who will vote, not according to the interests of their constituents but according to the amount of personal gain that accrues to them or their family. That is not normal self-interest, that is a corruption of their responsibilities towards their constituency and the state.
The treatment of the Palestinians is symptomatic of that malaise, of pandering to a powerful political minority, and when such brutal maltreatment, such killing and inhumanity is deemed acceptable then we endorse a way of life that is undemocratic and un-American and which eventually harms all of us.
Palestinians and Israelis are both of equal human value. Never believe that one is superior or inferior to the other. It is untrue and claims of racial superiority lead to war and atrocity.
Over 300 children and 100 mothers were killed in Gaza plus another 500 civilians. They were killed not in self-defense but for no reason other than to terrorize the population.
Do you really want your state representative(s) to endorse such actions?
March 20, 2010 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, but I admit that isn't my main concern. I'm more concerned about the Americans deployed in the middle east. Certainly, not all the neo-cons who lied us into Iraq were Israelis or American Jews but all too many of them were. This is what turned the tide for me. I don't want Americans being killed for oil interests and I don't want them killed for Jewish zealots and the union of the two groups is beyond terrifying to me.
March 20, 2010 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
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1. The way negotiations work, one side gives something, the other side gives something. In the issue of the 1600 apartments, Israel is expected to give some land, I think, to the Arabs in return for nothing. That's the problem.
2. All that Israel can get for giving up the theory of the 1600 apartments is another set of meetings with Arab leaders. Been there, done that. He's willing to meet, the Arab's aren't, and Israel is supposed to pay to get a meeting of equals?
3. And what has AIPAC got to do with any of that?
March 20, 2010 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
"For nothing"? Really?
I guess the Palestinians should remove their control over Israel's coastline, airspace and borders as a sign of goodwill?
Should the Palestinians cease building settlements in the Gallilee?
Should the Palestinians agree to pre-approve all Israeli candidates for the IDF and Border Police?
In the real world, since the Palestinians have zero control over Israel, it's not surprising that the Palestinians have "nothing" to give in exchange for their freedom.
March 20, 2010 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
If the Israelis give the land around (next to) Ramat Shlomo to the Arabs, what does Israel get in return? The Arab-Israei conflict is not one where one-sided gifts are the norm. Although it does happen, as in the Gaza pull-out.
The essential formula of the peace process is "Land for Peace". Israel gives up control of some land for recognition and peace. Here, Israel is being asked to give up some land for an improved chance of a meeting. Just to have meetings. Have you ever been to a meeting?
March 21, 2010 7:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
What the Palestinians WOULD give up, in exchange for the Netanyahu regime not appeasing Israeli terrorists by building fortress housing for them, would be to rein in their terrorists (Al Aqsa, et al). But as Netanyahu is flat out refusing to confront his terrorists, wanting to keep them in his coalition, I am afraid we can expect the Palestinians to very stupidly but typically act with some kind of tat for tit barbarism in return.
March 21, 2010 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
The "Peace Now" site that Rosenberg is linking to, now says the talking points aren't secret or inside, as Rosenberg said. "Peace Now" says they are from public AIPAC documents and web sites.
Neither "Peace Now" nor Rosenberg is actually saying that there is anything unreasonable about the AIPAC points, just that they happen to disagree. Shocka!
March 20, 2010 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
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I agree that the US cannot back down on this issue. President Obama seems to be a leader that acts against the old grain of US diplomatic thinking, so I think we may have a good chance for positive Israeli/Palestinian relations for the next three to seven years. refinance mortgage rates
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By refusing to reprimand Israel firmly on the issues, the US is playing right into Israel's hand. As such, we can expect Israel's expansion of Jewish settlements into Palestinian territory, the sporadic military excursions into Palestinian territory, nuclear armament and general impunity to continue rather then lessen. Kenya culture
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I absolutely a big supporter a two-state solution. But not a second of me have non-zero expectation that it will occur one day. They hate each other till the last of their blood Gamer
April 28, 2010 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this article a reflection of the official palestinian position towards negotiations? (Or is purporting to the voice of the average palestinian on the street?)
I've read it twice and I still can't tell
If this is an accurate description of the official approach to negotiations, this is a big deal and has the potential to dramatically change the conversation. (If not, it is just another handy way to beat up on Israel for building apartment buildings.)
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April 29, 2010 8:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama just might be experiencing several large stumbling blocks in his effort to spearhead Israel peace talks in the Middle Eastern region. One of the bigger problems facing the Obama administration is the sudden shifting of Israel to the right. Fixed Annuities
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It’s good to see that you have left that place on good terms. What all happening right now in AIPAC is pretty much known to everyone? However the decision of you to leave that place and going for a better job was very wise! Anyway the fact that times, people and institutions change is very much the reason now why the AIPAC is pretty much rigid! cheap ebooks star ebook
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People try to get Americans to give a damn about Palestinians. If you want to combat AIPAC, you need to convince Americans that AIPAC is working against AMERICAN interests. That is getting increasingly easy to do.
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"But it never would be. America will never ask Israel to commit suicide. If it happens, it would be a demand to get out of the occupied territories or divide Jerusalem or something like that. Life or death it would never be. Still, it's my biggest fear."
Just bs, they are all getting killed anyways so what's the difference? Its not like their living conditions are improving. Its just death if you're in the wrong place.
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Neither "Peace Now" nor Rosenberg is actually saying that there is anything unreasonable about the AIPAC points, just that they happen to disagree. Gautrain
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I think that on an ongoing basis, when diversity reclaims its rightful place on these issues within venerable tribes, when tribal elders solidly acknowledge the need to dethrone renegade amoralism that has supplanted ethical principles for too long, when every slick propaganda video like the one featured above is countered by one showing the hard-hitting truth.
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All that Israel can get for giving up the theory of the 1600 apartments is another set of meetings with Arab leaders. Been there, done that. He's willing to meet, the Arab's aren't, and Israel is supposed to pay to get a meeting of equals? Depannage Informatique
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By refusing to reprimand Israel firmly on the issues, the US is playing right into Israel's hand. As such, we can expect Israel's expansion of Jewish settlements into Palestinian territory, the sporadic military excursions into Palestinian territory, nuclear armament and general impunity to continue rather then lessen.
Boxer is so rightwing on all this. I wonder if she has a clue that her hawkishness on Israel makes her dovishness on America look cynical.
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July 4, 2010 7:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
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The Dems are finally becoming sensitive to the fact that they've been blowing it for Obama by not rallying around him the way Republicans do for their leaders. And if Obama suffers, they suffer doubly. They need to close ranks on foreign policy where Obama still looks rather good domestically and abroad compared to the Cheney-Bush horror. Chiropractic Marketing | Kartenlegen
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July 20, 2010 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know, from my years at AIPAC, that it wants Obama to back down. I also know that even the slightest retreat from our demands will be presented by AIPAC as a great victory. "All is back to normal," AIPAC will say. And the whole world - especially Israelis and Palestinians - will see us as chumps. Forex trading | Forex trading
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"If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?" -- David Ben-Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel. drug store
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"My worst fear is that a President of the United States will get on television and say to the American people, 'I have made the following request to the Israeli government.' He then describes it and says that Israel's refusal to accept it would harm US interests. At that point, the Israeli government would fold and so would AIPAC." Its a very real fear - thank you for the informative article.
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There is really not a good answer to this conflict, as both sides are to no doubt to blame. I would just implore the Israeli's and the Palestinian's to stop the madness once and for all!
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The current rift between the U.S. and Israel takes me back to the 1988 presidential transition. At the time, the U.S. under President Ronald Reagan moved to open contact with the PLO.
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Twenty-minutes later Begin called back and said he had issued the order to [General Ariel] Sharon to stop the bombings.
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April 23, 2011 7:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just passed this onto a colleague who was doing a little research on that. And he actually bought me lunch because I found it for him smile So let me rephrase that.
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April 27, 2011 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Back then AIPAC was less rigid. Yes, it rarely, if ever, deviated from the Israeli line. But, one, the Israeli line was not as hard right as it is today. casino en ligne
April 27, 2011 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink