Stupid Question
The Public Editor at the New York Times, Clark Hoyt, is doing the public a great disservice, not only by calling for Ethan Bronner's reassignment, but for asserting a reason, apparently supported by Harvard's Alex Jones, that makes a nonsense of reason itself.
Let me be clear: Ethan Bronner is a friend, and I have followed his writing about Israel and the Middle for 20 years, that is, since before I knew him. If you think my friendship with him means that everything I am about to say is not to be trusted, then you have pretty much bought in to the standard Hoyt is proposing, and you might as well not read on.
The (sublime) problem of truth is not just for journalists, of course. Every scholar, every judge, every scientist, struggles with it. The best answer we have is something like this: Ask a good question. Then hold yourself stringently to rules of evidence. To be sure, how you get to good questions is not a predictable matter: ask, say, Thomas Kuhn. And how you hold yourself to rules of evidence is not a simple matter: ask, say, Karl Popper. But if your question is stupid or you violate the rules of evidence, then you should not be trusted.
Which brings me back to Ethan Bronner. A good journalist knows questions most readers do not and then works diligently to answer them with data, witnesses, and obvious experts. A very good journalist knows questions most journalists do not, and then works tirelessly to answer them with unimpeachable data, by becoming an eye witnesses himself or herself, and finding experts who are not obvious. I have not agreed with the thrust of everything Bronner has written over the past couple of years, but he is very good journalist.
If Bronner had been found to be ignoring compelling questions, or cooking evidence in some sly way, you would have the right to explore his state of mind: whether some pay-off or family loyalty explains his lapses. But what if there are no obvious lapses? Why go ad hominem when there is no rationale for this? The sophomoric revelation that "we all have biases"--worse, that biases come from determined psychological states, explicable by families, or class, or tribe, etc.--is not enough to discredit arguments or the person who makes them. One son of a factory owner turns out Richard Arkwright; another turns out Fredrick Engels. I don't mean to be melodramatic, but transferring Bronner from Jerusalem for his son's decisions borrows from the same grotesque epistemology with which people were transferred to the Gulag for their son's decisions.
WHAT, IN THIS context, is Hoyt's specific claim? He writes:
In other words--or so we are to surmise--if Bronner's son is in the Israeli Army, most will assume his arguments are biased toward the Israeli Army, and the Times's integrity will suffer. After all, who trusts journalists to begin with? But if he took his job seriously, the Public Editor would not avoid the question of whether most should think this. He would educate, well, the public. I mean to the classical liberal assumptions about how we reasonably get at the truth, assumptions underlying the Constitution, and the freedom of newspapers, for that matter. Hell, the public might even trust journalists more if they actually stood for something this important, and held themselves to this standard. (Bill Keller's answer to Hoyt comes close.)
Instead, Hoyt is valorizing crude behaviorist ideas masquerading as liberal ones, that we are, really, nothing but bundles of "socialized preferences." What we think is the product of our "demographic." Our claims of fact (about history, society, etc.) are, by extension, an expression of our material "interests," or if we are deeply socialized, "values." The only truth, as Chuck Todd would say, is "the perception out there." The only game is "shaping the narrative." Perceptions, presumably, can be polled. How scientific of him.
I have written about this problem with the press before. It makes you weep with missing William Shirer and Edward R. Murrow and Alexander Kendrick and the generation of reporters who covered the war of liberal societies over European tyrannies and could smell totalitarian ideas a mile away. Bronner can. Anyway, just because this behaviorism is false doesn't mean it can't win. Moving Bronner would be a small victory. Sarah Palin's demographic--abetted not by a sympathetic press, but a hopelessly cynical one--is waiting in the wings.

















Actually, Bronner has been found on numerous occasions to be producing Israel-centric news. Unfortunately, Hoyt didn't include this information in his column.
Please see my CounterPunch article, "NYT's Israel Editor's Sticky Situation: Ethan Bronner's Conflict With Impartiality" for details on Bronner's highly flawed journalism.
http://counterpunch.org/weir02052010.html
For more information on Israel-Palestine see http://ifamericansknew.org
We need full, accurate, unbiased information on Israel-Palestine. Bronner has not been giving it to us.
February 7, 2010 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
It boggles the mind how totally oblivious you are to your utter lack of objectivity.
February 7, 2010 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really appreciate your full disclosures here, Bernard. And I think you know how hard most journalists wrestle with questions of truth and then quite rightly go back to those things that they CAN control like being fair, being open and being honest.
Having a son in the Israeli military is a tough one. But, come on. Has an American reporter ever been reassigned for having a spouse, sibling or child in the US armed services? Of course not. Heck, it's unthinkable that a US reporter would ever be actually criticized for being "biased" towards the US military!
If the only bias is hoping that people don't die, then I can live with that from my reporters.
And that's another thing... one might well be biased towards the members of a military in that they want the best for them. But that doesn't mean they are biased towards militarism. We liberals are fond of pointing out that "supporting the troops" always means "opposing frivolous warfare."
If more reporters and citizens truly were biased in favor of their soldiers we would have fewer wars.
February 7, 2010 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
But, come on. Has an American reporter ever been reassigned for having a spouse, sibling or child in the US armed services?
Very interesting point, destor, one I had never thought of. It's proof to me that you really are a professional journalist as you claim, as you are giving us a view "from their shoes."
It's kind of sad that if the Bronner case was in any other field of news besides IP, it would not be as much of a problematic issue for the Times. Your comment inspired me to think of other conflict of interest scenarios--say a Times Bureau chief in Europe somewhere had a spouse that was an important minister in Europe, they might prefer that person over another because of the insider understanding they might bring to the job as long as their was full disclosure for readers to judge for themselves.
That people reading IP news cannot deal with a full disclosure situation for themselves, that they are intelligent and rational enough to do so, and that the Times has to worry, as David Shipler says in Hoyt's article, about whether there is not just an actual conflict of interest but an appearance of conflict, really says something pitiful about state of world of IP. It's a world where fantasies of conspiracy keep people busy avoiding dealing with reality. The type of reader responses that Hoyt describes, and that we all see in the blogosphere on the issue, it's just so pitiful, things like fixating on a single word....
February 7, 2010 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was a professional journalist, double a. As for last Monday, I'm a marketing guy. Which is also why I bristle at seeing that another journalist can be "reassigned" for such a minor objection.
The entire profession is under assault by single issue extremists and the results will not serve us well. Bernard is right on about this.
And, you know what? I'll just reveal myself here. Name's Michael Maiello. Bernard, who I criticized for writing for Harvard Business Review, will be pleased to know that I spent the majority of my journalism career as the liberal at Forbes.
February 7, 2010 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
you rock, er rocked, er, wait....
You Rock. Period
February 7, 2010 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
destor, it happens to be the NYT's policy to reassign. As such, the legal department at the Times clearly doesn't consider conflict of interest issues "minor," and there's nothing "offensive" about reassignment, as Josh claims below. The policy is in place for legal reasons, as well it should be.
The fact that the public editor gets hundreds of letters about the IP situation (which can also be viewed as a political conflict of interest) also demonstrates the issue is not a minor one to the Times readers, whom the Times is supposed to serve. This is a really obvious call to me.
Of course Bill Keller makes it worse by not disclosing it. So why didn't Keller disclose it if he's so confident there's nothing wrong with the decision? Because it's a bad decision, LOL!
February 7, 2010 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll just reveal myself here
Hey, I just thought of something--you uncloaking means Amitai Etzioni won't have any excuses for not responding to your comments should he ever post here again. :-)
February 7, 2010 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Talk about out of sight, out of mind.
February 9, 2010 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would like to add that I have my own fantasies! How about the New York Times moves the whole bureau, everyone, to the Congo where they just passed the Holocaust in the number of deaths, and which has alsso been on the short end of the stick for interest and coverage for a decade or more, while talent reporters have been assigned to detailed stories about arguments about a block or two of land in IP, or the miseries of one Palestinian family, or the fears of one Israeli family, for readers from Brooklyn, NY to Dubuque, Iowa. (Pssst: guess what, there's even natural resources of interest to the world in the Congo, if you don't care about its people, something that can' be said about IP.) It would be great if all the big international news media did the same thing, including Al Jazeera, just boycott them, i.e., we in the rest of the world don't care, we paid attention long enough and you are boring us with your eternal infernal bickering over relatively stupid little things. Why do we all need to know so much about their bickering? Let the IP area take care of it's own journalism and P.R. Let's see how they do without anyone like the Times at least trying hard to be objective. :-)
February 7, 2010 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. I like to carry my fanstasies further. If the Times doesn't like my Congo suggestion, perhaps they could move the entire IP bureau to Haiti for permanent intensive coverage of a nation with terrible problems, one only a short boat trip away from the U.S.
Haiti: 11,000 square miles; population 9,700,000 (tragically the latter number has probably been greatly reduced as of recently)
Israel/Palestine: approx. 10,000 square miles; population: 9,500,00.
Natural resources: about the same--near zilch. Tourism possiblities: endless for both, depends on whether you like tropical ocean beaches or ancient religious sites.
But lots of people in NYC are interested in IP because they have relatives there, you say? Well, there's plenty of Haitian expats in NYC. There's plenty of U.S. Muslims and Jews interested in IP because of ideological conerns, you say? Well, get interested in Haiti for these ideological reasons: it was the second democratic republic around these parts of the world, the U.S. the first, and one started by slaves, a pretty damn inspiring narrative, approaching the narrative of other states that will remain unnammed, and it's been flailing in that quest since it began, the subject of our past nefarious interference alternating with total neglect, as if it didn't exist.
February 7, 2010 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
What if it was reported that the Jerusalem bureau chief of the NY Times had a son in Hamas? Would he be reassigned then?
Oh wait... THAT is a stupid question!
February 7, 2010 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another interesting disclosure by Keller in his response:
"Nazila Fathi, our brave Tehran correspondent, was hounded out of her native country and into exile by the current regime. Does that “conflict of interest” disqualify her from writing about Iran?"
Of course not! She might even be qualified enough to write the next "Let's bomb Iran" op-ed in the NY Times.
February 7, 2010 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keller adds: "Would you prefer to have a correspondent in Tehran who had NOT been persecuted by the Iranian government?"
You might also wonder: "Would you prefer to have a correspondent in Jerusalem who HAD been persecuted by the Israeli government?" Instead of answering the concerns of Hoyt, Keller's response only confirms the systemic bias of the NY Times in its coverage of (at least) the Middle East.
February 7, 2010 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't worry he is A self hating jew like all the other "JEWS" in the NYT !
I prefer Muslim or Christian reporter and not the Self hating Jew type- they are the worst - The hamasniks in Gaza have more pro-Israel view than the
Jewish reporters in the media (Take MJ Rosenberg for example - he can write in the Hezbollah magazine and you will notice he is a Jewish one )
The jewish liberals are the worst of their kind (Rham emanuel , Barnnie Maddof ,Roger choen and etc...) - Be aware!
February 8, 2010 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course US citizens aren't 'biased' by being 'patriotic' toward our Army. Destor's got a point there.
I just can't get over the idea that an American citizen (his son...right?) can join ANOTHER Army.
Besides Israel, what other nations are US citizens allowed to fight for in an official function? Can I go fight for Jordan? How about Syria? Everybody OK with that?
I think it just goes to show that attempts to be 'even handed' by US reporters is nearly impossible.
February 9, 2010 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess you struck a hot button with me sneering at Palin's "demographic". What demographic would that be? American parents with American kids in the American Army armed forces deployed to fight the TWO wars America is fighting right now?
If as Destor says we might have fewer wars if reporters and citizens were biased in favor of THEIR soldiers, I sure the heck wish we'd remember that when OUR country is involved in TWO wars, that OUR soldiers are the AMERICAN armed forces.
So there you go. I'm biased.
February 7, 2010 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was, in context, a swipe at the very idea of reducing people to "demographics," obviously. What I fear is that people who think we are nothing conditioned impressions will think Palin's stupidity is irrelevant because all people are a bundle of biases and we might as well vote for the bundle who looks like us.
February 8, 2010 5:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
You quote: "In other words--or so we are to surmise--if Bronner's son is in the Israeli Army, most will assume his arguments are biased toward the Israeli Army, and the Times's integrity will suffer."
Apparently, you don't understand that credibility is damaged by the appearance of a conflict of interest, not just by an actual conflict of interest.
February 8, 2010 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
mr. bronner recently gave a lecture at vassar. here is the reporting from philip weiss:
"Now that Israeli courts have cleared the titles, some Jewish owners have chosen to sell their houses to settlers. Bronner said the problem is that by granting pre-48 title to Jews, the court opened the door for Palestinians to claim their old houses in West Jerusalem."
talking about himself, mr. bronner says:
"I live in West Jerusalem. My entire neighborhood was Palestinian. … So I think it’s a very worrying decision… and one causing a great deal of anxiety there.."
anxiety for who, mr. bronner?
bronner said "...there was a case you could make that the occupation was not illegal."
biased much?
http://mondoweiss.net/2010/02/rage-at-bronner-and-at-the-times.html
February 7, 2010 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, context matters. I would have wanted to hear the whole exchange. But for the record, the Geneva Conventions did not presume the 1967 occupation of the West Bank to be illegal, given Jordan's attack; the conventions absolutely considered colonization of the territory to be illegal. But, anyway, the legality or illegality of this insane occupation has long ago stopped being of interest, surely.
February 8, 2010 5:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
But, anyway, the legality or illegality of this insane occupation has long ago stopped being of interest, surely.
Do you really mean this? As an Israeli you must be very concerned that your own courts are upholding eviction notices against Paletinians in E. Jerusalem. I recall you expressing concern about this a few weeks back. Is the idea of Israeli justice uninteresting?
February 8, 2010 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really agree with Bernie's take here and I find the premise -- that Bonner should be reassigned because his son enlisted in the IDF to be ridiculous bordering on offensive.
February 7, 2010 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seconded.
February 7, 2010 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wrong answer, Josh. But of course you shouldn't even be weighing in on this.
Which is pretty hilarious, actually.
February 7, 2010 7:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
You get offended too easily.
February 8, 2010 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a silly comment. You ignore an obvious appearance of a conflict of interest and then criticize those who point it out.
Considering that in the future Bonner's son may actually be pointing a gun at my wife's relatives, to deride concern about his objectivity, is frankly, pretty childish.
February 8, 2010 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely, Josh. In theory he could be a superb reporter while having his son in the IDF. Similarly, someone could be a superb reporter if he or she has a son in Hamas. As it happens, though, he is biased.
link
Not that I needed the link--Bronner's bias was first evident to me when reading his work years ago.
February 8, 2010 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "...Clark Hoyt, is doing the public a great disservice, not only by calling for Ethan Bronner's reassignment..." - Avishai
RESPECTFULLY, TWO DIFFERING VEIWS:
Richard Silverstein - http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2010/02/06/n-y-times-public-editor-reassign-bronner/
Philip Weiss - http://mondoweiss.net/2010/02/the-times-now-owes-it-to-its-readers-to-assign-an-arab-american-reporter-to-jerusalem.html
February 7, 2010 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. In my opinion, the coverage of I/P issues by both Haaretz and Ynet News is considerably more evenhanded than is the coverage by either the NYT or the AP.
February 7, 2010 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
May I suggest readers go to this site
http://labs.daylife.com/journalist/ethan_bronner
and peruse what he has written and judge for themselves?
February 8, 2010 5:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, I'll save everyone some time. We all know who Dershowitz is, right? And here's a book review by Bronner where he praises Dershowitz's book and agrees with him about Israel's critics--
link
I urge people to read the review and tell me that there's no pro-Israel bias peeping through here.
February 8, 2010 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: May I suggest readers go to this site - Avishai
http://labs.daylife.com/journalist/ethan_bronner
MY COMMENT: Thanks for the link! I will spend some time reviewing his articles. Note that I referred to the "coverage by the NYT" (and AP), and not to Mr. Bronner's coverage per se. That was a conscious decision. I doubt the I/P conflict coverage is determined exclusively (or perhaps even primarily) by the Jerusalem bureau(s). I think all of the NYT's foreign coverage has suffered in recent years. The AP has become a joke* (as has the Jerusalem Post). It is often a matter of what they fail to cover (or consciously choose not to cover).
*‘AP’ misquoted UN Sec’y Gen’l as praising Israel - http://mondoweiss.net/2010/02/ap-misquoted-un-secy-genl-as-praising-israel-re-goldstone.html
February 8, 2010 10:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: "The AP has become a joke"
ALSO SEE: AP Article Fuels Iran War Hysteria, By Jason Ditz, 02/08/10
(EXCERPT) In a widely-circulated article which has further fueled Western hysteria about the prospect of an imminent war with Iran, the Associated Press today claimed that Iran’s uranium enrichment program move, an effort to produce medical isotopes which are rapidly running out in the nation, was a secret plot to build nuclear weapons.
The article, entitled “Iran moves closer to nuke warhead capacity,” claims that Iran had informed the IAEA that it “will increase its ability to make nuclear warheads,” an allegation which is not only unsupported by fact but even goes beyond the ample bellicose Western statements quoted in the piece...
SOURCE - http://news.antiwar.com/2010/02/08/ap-article-fuels-iran-war-hysteria/
February 9, 2010 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
ALSO SEE: The New York Times, Israel and Ethan Bronner, By Robert Jensen, COUNTERPUNCH, 02/09/10
(EXCERPT)...The problems with the coverage of the Israel-Palestine conflict in the Times, and virtually every other corporate-commercial news outlet in the United States, are not the result of biases of specific reporters, though individual reporters may indeed have allegiances to one side of an issue. The mainstream media have a conflict of interest at a deeper level -- they are unwilling to break with the conventional wisdom about the conflict that dominates in the United States, especially among U.S. policymakers. U.S. news coverage of the conflict relentlessly presents the news within this Israeli narrative, primarily because powerful forces in this country find that narrative useful for U.S. strategic interests in the region, and U.S. journalists tend to fall in line with that view...
ENTIRE ARTICLE - http://www.counterpunch.org/jensen02092010.html
February 9, 2010 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bernard, this is not a very careful reading of the argument in the Hoyt piece.
You write, "In other words--or so we are to surmise--if Bronner's son is in the Israeli Army, most will assume his arguments are biased toward the Israeli Army, and the Times's integrity will suffer."
But your characterization doesn't follow at all from the paragraph you are characterizing. That paragraph only states the Times's very reasonable ethical guideline that acknowledges the possibility of bias when reporters find themselves in circumstances, such as the activities of a family member, that could affect their credibility, and that requires reporters to report these circumstances to their editors, so that the editors can make the call. It says nothing about any assumptions or presumptions one way or another about what the majority of readers will think or ought to think, and apparently leaves the judgment to the editor.
The paragraph you quote doesn't even contain Hoyt's argument. Bronner did report the potential conflict to his editors, so he did the right thing as far as the ethical guidelines are concerned. Hoyt then addresses the question of what should be done, and after going back and forth on the pros and cons of removing Bronner, he at last comes to his conclusion:
But, stepping back, this is what I see: The Times sent a reporter overseas to provide disinterested coverage of one of the world’s most intense and potentially explosive conflicts, and now his son has taken up arms for one side. Even the most sympathetic reader could reasonably wonder how that would affect the father, especially if shooting broke out.
Do you really doubt the assertion made in that last sentence? Don't you agree that such a concern on the part of the reader is at least rational? You say that Hoyt avoids entirely the question of what the reading public should think about Bronner's trustworthiness - and even suggest that this avoidance means he doesn't take his job seriously. But Hoyt doesn't avoid this. Rather he judges that a reader's wondering about the effect of Bronner's son's participation in the IDF is reasonable.
Now obviously, one possibility is that the paper simply make Bronner's close personal relationship to a members of the IDF well-known to its readers, and then leave it to the readers to judge Bronner's credibility for themselves on the basis of his track record of reporting over time. However, a paper like the New York Times, which aspires to be the "paper of record", tends to aim higher with its reports. It doesn't present these reports as just one entry among a large variety of testimonial reports that rational readers are then expected to sift through and weigh in total. Rather, the Times strives to be preeminently authoritative. They want their readers to think that when the Times says, "that's the way it is," well then, that's the way it is.
I would think that strongly pro-Israel readers have even more reason to be concerned about bias than Israel skeptics. What if the Israeli government sends Bronner's son into some engagement in which he is killed? Bronner might then, like any normal human being, be more susceptible to biased criticism and second-guessing of the military judgment than a reporter with less of a personal stake in the outcome of the decision.
Your discussion goes off the rails a bit in your tirade suggesting some weird and unholy latter-day combination of radical subjectivists, behaviorists and postmodernists have driven Hoyt into the denial of the very possibility of truth and objectivity, and have made "nonsense of reason itself", as though these degenerates are responsible for the very notion that one's emotional engagements with and interests in some subject matter can impair one's capacity for objectivity about that subject matter. But it is a commonplace in the canons of evaluation of testimonial evidence that one appropriate consideration in the impeachment of such evidence is evidence of bias on the part of the testifier, in the form of personal interest in the outcome of a case.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of overly-simplified and poorly digested introductory logic class lore about ad hominem argumentation that has left many people, even well-educated ones, with the impression that considerations of a speaker's background, commitments, interests or emotional engagements are uniformly lacking in evidential relevance when it comes to evaluating the speaker's testimony. That is not true; and recognizing it is not true is not some recent perversion wrought by Kuhn, Derrida or other recent thinkers.
Now, in defense of your own position, I think the strongest argument would be that the standard Hoyt appears to be proposing is impossibly high for practical, real-world journalistic enterprises. For illustration, surely there are reporters all over the United States, perhaps even at the Times, who report on defense and national security matters even though they have close family members in the US Armed Forces. If it's OK for these reporters, why isn't it OK for reporters whose children are in a foreign military?
On the other hand, the Times has a particularly heightened interest in being concerned about its journalistic credibility where the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is concerned.
February 7, 2010 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dan K, as usual you get to the heart of the matter and, as usual, come out in a very different place from mine. You write:
"That paragraph only states the Times's very reasonable ethical guideline that acknowledges the possibility of bias when reporters find themselves in circumstances, such as the activities of a family member, that could affect their credibility, and that requires reporters to report these circumstances to their editors, so that the editors can make the call. It says nothing about any assumptions or presumptions one way or another about what the majority of readers will think or ought to think, and apparently leaves the judgment to the editor."
How can the standard be "credibility" and not be about "what a majority of readers think."
My point was, precisely, that the public editor should have taken on what people "ought to think." And he should have insisted that the difference between Bronner's integrity (leave aside "credibility," which is too squishy, since we don't know credible to whom?) and, say, "the activities of a family member" is that raft of big things called discrimination, logic, exposure to manifold life experiences, the confrontation with contradictions, knowledge of rules of evidence, and fact checking--in short, the difference is a person's complex (or as Keller says, "sophisticated) mind and knowledge of craft.
Objectivity is not "admitting your biases" and struggling against them, as if objectivity is a kind of sobriety and getting to objectivity means going to a kind of journalist's AA. Objectivity (a foolish word in any case) is a process. Bronner adheres rigorously to it. Only his questions are better than most.
I have three grown children and three grown step-children, doing all kinds of things, and married or coupled to all kinds of people. If you think this means my credibility depends on my recusing myself from comment on every issue where others will rashly suspect my arguments are tainted in advance that is, by my loyalties, then you don't understand what it means for writers to broaden their horizons.
February 8, 2010 5:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bernard, first of all, your own situation is not very relevant. You are producing thoughtful opinion pieces here at TPM Cafe. You are not a reporter; you have not been assigned the task of reporting by the site's editors; the editors have not held you forth to the site's readers as a reporter practicing world-class standards of reportorial accuracy and objectivity in generating a record of events.
The standards here are much lower. TPM Cafe, like most blogs, is just one big op-ed page. It's all opinion pieces, all the time, and is virtually unfiltered. And the standards aren't even the same as a newspaper op-ed page. Anybody in the world can create a user name here, write a blog and unleash the contents of their mind on the world, no matter how crazed, dishonest, hysterical or incompetent. TPM Cafe does not strive to be the "paper of record" that produces only news that is "fit to print". It's a free-for-all.
The Times strives to place its reporting above reproach, because that is it's stock in trade. The paper should be even more concerned about this than it used to be, given its recent history of a few notorious failures of honesty and journalistic integrity. It is good to see that you trust and respect your friend's judgment and professionalism, and his commitment to the truth. But as I mentioned, Hoyt did not say that each and every reader response to Bronner's situation should be credited, no matter how prejudiced and unreasonable that response is. What he said is that he thought the reader concerns in this case would be reasonable. And they certainly are. Having a close loved one serving in the military of some country, in harm's way, gives a reporter a very different kind of personal stake and interest in the that country's military actions and policies than a reporter who does not have that kind of relationship to the country.
The Times also has a collection of ethics rules on trading stock in the individual companies one is assigned to cover, or that one assigns reporters to cover. Isn't that a reasonable guideline, since a person who owns stock in a company has a personal stake in the outcomes of the company's various travails, outcomes that the reporter is in a position to influence through the content of her reporting? And isn't having a loved one in the armed forces of another country a similar case of having a personal stake in the outcomes of that country's decisions?
Now maybe these reasonable reader concerns about objectivity should be trumped by other considerations touching on Bronner's personal qualities. Fine. That's a defensible position, so long as one recognizes that the concerns are at least reasonable. But it is not fair to characterize Hoyt as just caving in to the ignorant prejudices of the masses, rather than the rational concerns of the typical reader. And what is rational from the standpoint of the typical reader is not the same thing as what is rational from the standpoint of the people who know Bronner personally. Those typical readers don't possess the same body of evidence as is possessed by those who know Bronner personally and are in a position to vouch for his objectivity.
The standard you seem to want to impose is that the editor should make a personal judgment about the qualities of the reporter in question, and if he finds them excellent, he should keep reporters where they are. But this is not a good policy if your goal is to make sure your paper's reporting is above reproach and avoids even the appearance of a conflict of interest.
It's interesting you bring up the concept of recusal. Would you apply the same standard in the law that you are applying here? Would you say that the decision on whether or not a judge should be recused from a case should depend only on that judge's judicial temperament, and not on the facts that bear on a judge's personal and material interest in the outcome of a case?
February 8, 2010 8:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have reported often on these issues since 1973.
February 8, 2010 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
We read you for opinion, not for factual reporting. Big difference.
February 8, 2010 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
While it might be useful for the public editor to defend Bonner's integrity as a reporter, ultimately the NYT's mission is to report the news--and to report it in a way that is credible to its audience. Reporting with integrity may well be more important that reporting credibly, but succeeding at integrity while failing at credibility won't make you a good newspaper. You need to succeed at both.
I do think you hit on something important when you say:
How can the standard be "credibility" and not be about "what a majority of readers think."
Credibility is something that readers judge . . . and therefore it is in some ways a matter of opinion. But I'm not sure it comes from reporting back to readers exactly what they think (i.e., reporting what the majority of readers already believe to be true). It comes rather from being a good reporter (i.e., having integrity or following the right process and asking the right questions, as you say) but also from being free of real or apparent conflicts of interest that might cause or suggest bias. Unfortunately (fair or not to Bronner), Bronner's son's choice makes the issue of possible bias rise to the surface -- and fairly or not, that hurts Bronner's ability to report the news in a way that will be credible to all readers. You can lecture those readers and tell them that their concerns about bias are invalid (tell them what they "ought to think") . . . but ultimately they are the judges of credibility and if they are unconvinced, you remain less than credible. That's not a tenable position for a newspaper like the NYT to be in. That's why they try to avoid both real and apparent conflicts of interest even if in doing so they may end up reassigning a perfectly fair and good reporter to some beat where nothing in his or his family's choices suggests a possible conflict of interest.
On the ability of reporters to follow a process (almost like a scientific method) that removes bias . . . I'm skeptical. I think reporters can learn to strip out a lot of obvious bias and be discriminating and careful in their judgment. But a lot of bias is far more subtle and hard to recognize because it comes not so much from our personal beliefs and situation than from the general milieu in which we live. There's even a danger that in stripping away what seem to be our personal biases--and by ignoring what we think is biased in others--all we do is come closer to accepting the conventional wisdom of the society (or the subset of society) in which we live. If the NYT has a bias, it isn't so much the kind of obvious personal bias we see in a FOX, but the bias of clinging too strictly to what is conventional.
February 9, 2010 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dan,
I am afraid you are missing the point. Hoyt, Avishai and Keller are involved in a theoretical, philosophical argument about whether and to what extent journalists can be trusted to overcome their personal lives in pursuing objectivity. That's a fascinating debate only when it is NOT used like a diversionary tactics, for the purpose of calling the audience's attention away from the man behind the curtain.
Bronner is a Jewish-American who is deeply invested, both personally, through marriage and now through a son in the IDF, and ideologically, as can be seen from many quotes from him, in the idea of Zionism, a Jewish state that privileges people like him on the basis of their Jewish identity, allowing them to "return" while excluding Palestinians. He covers a conflict between Jews and Palestinians while speaking Hebrew but not Arabic, while sharing the daily experience of Israelis and not sharing that of Palestinians, while being immersed in Israeli culture and not in Palestinian culture. He is furthermore a believer, indeed he takes for granted and beyond questioning, a whole series of factual and moral claims that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians, (one side of the conflict), consider hogwash, for example, that the Israeli attack of Gaza was motivated by Qassam rockets.
So this theoretical discussion of whether Bronner can be objective is totally beside the point. He plainly isn't. Nor is Avishai, who only writes posts about non-violent protests in Israel when Jews lead the protest.
Objectivity does not exist without a reference to a community with shared experience. There is no shared experience between Israelis and Palestinians, and it is ludicrous to expect journalists immersed in one experience only to report fairly on the conflict. That would be true in any case, but it is especially true when the experience one is immersed in is that of the oppressor. Why? because, as the Hegelian Master-Slave dialectics reveals and as historical experience confirms, the Slave needs to understand the master to survive, but the Master can live in complete ignorance of the slave. So assuming equal competence and professional ethics, one is more likely to get a fair account of the conflict from a journalist living in Nablus and speaking only Arabic than from someone like Bronner.
Everybody at TPM thought having a Latina in the Supreme Court is a good thing, and that it will expand the ability of the court to understand the world.
But Avishai, Bronner, Josh, Keller, and Hoyt all agree that it is better to leave Palestinians as much as possible voiceless and let superbly professional writers like themselves, that is mostly Jewish and often immersed in Israeli culture, be as objective as possible.
Wonder why?
February 8, 2010 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did Bronner really say (at Vassar), roughly, 'that there was a case you could make that the occupation was not illegal, though oh yes, most countries regard it as illegal.'
The International Court of Justice did not call the occupation illegal (July 9, 2004, opinion) but did rule that the separation/apartheid wall is illegal and must be removed and that the settlements are illegal (so that, by clear implication, the settlers must be removed).
What does Mr. Bronner say about whether the 500,000 or so Israeli settlers in the occupied West Bank (including, as it does, occupied East Jerusalem) are present there legally or illegally? And the wall?
Legality is usually a matter of law for courts to declare rather than for nations to declare (although states, like people, have opinions).
If Bronner remains silent on this issue, I'd have no difficulty removing him for bias. Silence, as they say, gives consent.
February 7, 2010 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are there no WASPS to serve in this post. Yes, there are plenty of Jews for whom Israel is utterly and completely a foreign country.
And those would be fine too.
But I don't think Jews who are Zionists should serve in this post.
Or anti-Zionists.
Let all the brilliant Jewish kids who do "area studies" go to Latin America, Asia, or whatever.
And let the non-Jews and non-Muslims have this post.
I want my correspondents to be disinterested. I don't think they should be attached to the country in which they serve.
As for Bronner's son choice, it is no problem if he grew up in Israel, fell in love with the place, and decided to join up. But, if his family is devoted to Israel, with his serving a logical extension of his family's devotion to the place, then he should serve and his dad should be covering Paris or Warsaw or Seoul.
I don't know Bronner so I don't know if he is devoted to Israel. If he is, he shouldn't cover it.
I'd apply the same standard to an Arab but that won't ever happen.
February 7, 2010 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen MJ
February 7, 2010 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
While we're at it, we shouldn't have Americans covering America.
February 8, 2010 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you would support the NYT only hiring Arab American journalists to cover Israel?
(Sound of crickets....)
February 8, 2010 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
The public editor is doing the public a great disservice by not consulting with the Times legal department before writing his article. The company policy exists for a reason, and when you are unsure whether something qualifies as "the appearance of conflict of interest," the legal staff will provide an answer, whether you like the answer or not.
But I suppose the public editor doesn't have the authority to go over Bill Keller's head. So he went public. As he should! That's his job. To inform the public, especially when Bill Keller doesn't want to inform the public.
Meanwhile, Bill Keller's judgment is seriously flawed (like we didn't already know this) if he thinks there's no political component to a foreign bureau chief's son serving in that country's military, not to mention, it just happens to be the IDF! Come on! Is this a joke? The Jerusalem bureau chief's son enlists with the IDF (I'm laughing as I type) and there's absolutely no hint of a conflict of interest? (Falling on the floor now.)
The point of company policy is to defuse subjective management decisions. The legal department will make the call in the end, now that it has been made a public concern.
If we should rend our garments about anything, it's that Bill Keller still heads the New York Times and will, eventually, destroy it. After the lead-up to Iraq, Judy Miller, withholding the domestic spying story until after the 2004 presidential election, and this no-brainer bad judgment call, one wonders how the guy still has a job. If the Times goes down on his watch, it deserves its ignominious death.
February 7, 2010 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
MJ, I am sure there are WASPs to cover every posting. Seriously (if seriousness is really warranted here), you are jumping to all kinds of conclusions about the Bronner family, which are not relevant in any case. We need a little more Dostoyevsky here and a little less MSNBC.
February 8, 2010 6:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, Bernie. I think your friendship for Ethan is obscuring your vision. I could not cover Israel objectively but I could cover Bolivia objectively. That applies to every Jew I know who feels an attachment to Israel. It stands to reason.
February 8, 2010 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, MJ. The fact that Bernard must involve the Bronner family suggests a grave personal investment.
February 8, 2010 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Instead, Hoyt is valorizing crude behaviorist ideas masquerading as liberal ones, that we are, really, nothing but bundles of "socialized preferences." What we think is the product of our "demographic."
I don't think Hoyt is doing any of the above. I don't think he questions Bronner's ability to be objective at all. I think he's just stating that there may be an appearance of a conflict of interest. And avoiding the appearance of such a conflict may be enough to warrant the reassignment of Bronner. I'm not sure I agree with Hoyt, but I do think there's something strange about the intensity of Avishai's reaction to Hoyt's article. How can he not see that there is at least the possibility of the appearance of a conflict of interest in this situation and that avoiding such an appearance would be in the interest of the Times?
February 7, 2010 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
All the good guys/girls join the IDF:
Jews,Muslims,Christians,Druzes,Bedouins,Atheists
White,blacks,yellow even red ppl
Israeli citizens ,NON-Israeli citizens (From almost any country in the world)
,foreign workers kids
rich ,poor , from the kibbutz , form the city , from the moshav ,from the settlements , from the Negev , Galilee , from the center ..
heterosexuals , homosexual ,transgendered -our sport instructor in the training - you can watch him(her) in http://yes.walla.co.il/?w=1/8020
Ethan Bronner's son is in good company - the most multiethnic/multicultural melting pot that you will ever seen !
February 8, 2010 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
How many Christians and Druze are IDF generals? Name them.
February 8, 2010 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Druses (1.7% of Israel population) : Yosef Mishlav !
The Druses have the highest number of officers compare to their share in society !!
Christian(2%) : Not yet
There is also special battalions :
"Herev" (sword) battalion of Druses
and the Bedouin (Muslims volunteers) battalion "GADSAR" (The desert scouters)
Beside this 2 battalions most of the Christians and druzes and Muslims in the IDF joining the regular units !
Now , name me one Muslim general in the US army ?
February 8, 2010 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
So your answer is zero. Thanks.
I know the IDF likes to use the Druze to run the motor pool and likes to use former SLA veterans to drive bulldozers. Pretty classy to get Arab Israelis to help brutalize Palestinians.
Class outfit. All the way.
February 8, 2010 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have never said zeros - currently there is ZERO christian general in the I.D.F -Israeli Christians have an exempt from service but teenagers are join voluntarily
February 8, 2010 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
There was a time when New York Times readers could assume stories were as close to the truth as fair journalism could get. Nothing's perfect, of course, and the Times' actual performance in the past century has been spotty, at best. (Walter Duranty stooging for the Soviets was one BAD stumble, making the newspaper of record accessory to collectivist genocide on a vast scale.) But any illusion of factual certitude the Times may have cultivated has been lost in the sands of Iraq, searching for Judith Miller's WMD mirage. No wise reader peruses the Times with anything more than skepticism now, especially when the subject of the Mideast pops up. I doubt Bronner's reassignment will change the situation at all; he never should have been in the post to begin with.
February 8, 2010 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I would take serious issue with the idea of Bronner as good journalist who educates the public or some such twaddle. If you read his work, he almost always exclusively quotes from Israeli sources - rarely corroborating with independent human rights groups, or ghast, actual Palestinians - when rendering events. In a recent piece he wantonly disparaged the Goldstone Report's assertion on the destruction of the Al-Bader flour mill by, get this, quoting an IDF spokesman. And you know what, it turns out, he was wrong. In fact, his work includes an incredible amount of IDF schlock. But that aside, the issue of NYT does raise some serious issues about reportage on this topic, which I think MJ touches on.
The New York Time is the most influential newspaper in the country, especially on the I/P conflict. And yet, its two Jerusalem correspondents are Bronner and Isabel Kershner. Bronner is married to an Israeli and his son serves in the IDF. Kershner is an Israeli. So dare I ask: Where are the Palestinian (or Arab) Jerusalem bureau reporters? Are there any Palestinian or Arab NYT journalists with children in Hizbullah or Hamas (and spare me the purity of arms!). Of course not. They would be pilloried. It would never happen.
Why is it that the NYT needs to have a an israeli-centric view of the conflict? Is there anything particularly special about this issue that only warrants presentation by Jews with Israeli lineage, backgrounds and possibly loyalties. Me think not.
I fear you miss the issue: it is not about Bronner per se, but the overarching issue of how the "paper of record" presents and reports on the conflict. Is no one else entitled to speak on this issue? Has the times done a particular stellar job? It think we all know the answer to those questions.
So please stop personalizing this affair as an issue of Bronner's integrity and meet the issue where it begs. Are the standards fair? Why is there a sense of exceptionalism to reporting on the conflict? Where are the Arabs or the view which the wider world shares?
February 8, 2010 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll say it one more time. Humans have judgment which is not the same thing as saying they have biases. Between one's origins/families/friends and the world is one's brain, which is not just a dumb terminal, receiving signals. It is not my friendship with Bronner that moves me, but my passion for a way of thinking about thinking that "liberals" are losing. People who think that my friendship clouds my judgment are the disease who presume themselves the cure.
February 8, 2010 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are liberal values a matter of narrow ideological coherence, suffused by a particular religious/ethnic coherence? Notwithstanding the nuance of "liberal thought" (an issue not quite so clear), I presume you mean judging reporting on its intellectual merits, integrity etc. I concur. But Bronner fails this category.
According to you: "If Bronner had been found to be ignoring compelling questions, or cooking evidence in some sly way, you would have the right to explore his state of mind."
But does he not routinely ignore compelling questions and evidence? Many have documented his record on these matters. If need be, I will furnish you with evidence - but I think you are quite familiar. Bronner controls the information from Jerusalem to the US and ignores human rights reports, questions of international jurisprudence and so forth continuously. According to you, this is grounds for "the right to explore his state of mind." And all I ask is that we do. The Times does a uniquely poor job, considering its perch, of explicating the conflict to the American public. And accordingly, the American public is preposterously uninformed. Is it this incorrect? And if not, is scrutiny, of the Mill/enlightment variety not warranted in this case?
Why does the rest of the civilized world seem to be in agreement on the conflict? Why during UNGA votes are the US and Israel (and various US protectorates) the only countries on the other side? Real "liberal thought" as you propose would seek an answer to these questions. And the result might suggest the Times is not as pure as the virgin snow peppering are Eastern shore.
February 8, 2010 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, Hoyt's piece doesn't call for Bronner's reassignment. He quotes Alex Jones to that effect, but he also quotes several others who suggest that the fact that his son is in the Israeli Defense Forces shouldn't be an issue. I am critical of Israel's policies in Lebanon and Gaza, as well as on the settlements, but that would in no way lead me to think Ethan Bronner should be reassigned. It wouldn't have occurred to me to even raise it as an issue. My reading of Hoyt's article is that he is reporting conflicting views, not advocating one or the other.
February 8, 2010 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
But you are not critical of Israel's policies in the West Bank? (Interesting omission.)
February 9, 2010 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Avishai sez:
"People who think that my friendship clouds my judgment are the disease who presume themselves the cure."
How amusing.
This manifestation of the disease that doubts Avishai was quite struck by the disclaimer issued by a journalist who supports Bronner remaining at his post:
http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/rosner/entry/should_nyt_jerusalem_correspondent_leave
Shmuel Rosner, rightwing Israeli and a professional journalist by trade, carefully details the extent of his casual contacts with Bronner in order to reassure the reader that his opinions are not influenced by a personal friendship with the man.
Is Rosner a bad liberal?
February 8, 2010 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand the controversy; it seems so obvious. Bronner loves Israel, therefore he should cover someplace else.
The problem with this particular bias is that it is so overt, no one sees it. Is Tom Friedman biased? I don't know. But a disproportionate number of the experts he quotes on every issue is Israeli.
Certain Jews (me, among them) are brought up to love Israel like it's our mother.
Is not Bronner one of those?
If so, he should cover someplace else. It is so obvious that I cannot believe anyone could argue about it.
He didn't just go local. I suspect he alwys was.
I greatly admire Bernie but this is really a cse of forest and trees.
February 8, 2010 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
You "don't understand the controversy" MJ because you don't automatically assume that the pro-Israel position is the "objective" position on the ME.
The fact that Josh tried to big-foot into the discussion actually makes that point.
February 8, 2010 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Certain Jews (me, among them) are brought up to love Israel like it's our mother."
May I humbly suggest that what we are "brought up to love" does not exhaust how we will think about things throughout our lives? My mother thought I should be a rabbi. This, it is true, got me very interested in rabbis when I was about 10. Jim Carroll actually became a priest. But things didn't end there, for him or for me.
Would the fact that Carroll was a former priest disqualify him from covering the Vatican? If the Jerusalem bureau chief does not speak Arabic, would it be better if he or she spoke no Hebrew as well?
What's missing here, I must stress again, is an appreciation for a cultivated mind. George Kennan was married to a Russian and spoke fluent Russian. William Shirer was married to an Austrian and spoke fluent German. Such things can open us to good questions we might not have otherwise seen.
February 9, 2010 5:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
You say: "Would the fact that Carroll was a former priest disqualify him from covering the Vatican?"
Yes, it does. Among Vatican devotees (like me!), Carroll is almost an apostate who has zero credibility about matters concerning the Church.
Your example is poor.
February 9, 2010 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
No,what is missing here, is that you pretend Bronner has "a cultivated mind" rather than a narrow, parochial mind that only sees things from the perspective of people very much like him. As you do.
Are there people who can transcend their social experience? Sure, take journalism from Amira Haas for example. That would be a perfect example of a cultivated mind that expanded, with hard work, to include experiences far away from her social milieu. Bronner is no Amira Haas. And neither are you.
February 9, 2010 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you cannot argue against the obvious you have no business shilling for zionism. (Oh you don't?! smart decision, because obviously you lack the skill of looking at the blue sky and calling it brown. some people can do it. Like Avishai. Some just can't. Count your blessings! )
February 9, 2010 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
For many years, conservatives complained of a "liberal bias" in mainstream news (a complaint that came as a surprise to many on the left who had leveled precisely the opposite claim, but that's for another day). As proof, conservatives trotted out statistics showing that a significant majority of reporters are in fact left-leaning politically. Ergo, according to conservatives, the reporting must be biased. I suspect many of those calling for Bronner's removal had no problem recognizing the faulty logic of the conservative critique. Is this situation really different?
Liberals cover Republican politics. Americans, many with family members and friends in the military, cover our wars. Foreign correspondents are often given assignments precisely because of some connection to the area they are covering - an understanding that permits and enriches their reporting. That comes with the territory. Keller uses the example of Anthony Shadid, a Lebanese American, who covered the Israeli war in Lebanon for the Washington Post and now covers Iraq. (I would hardly be surprised, or outraged, to find that NYT reporters in other Arab countries have ties to the Arab world. I would also point out that Bronner and others covering the conflict rely extensively on stringers who are part of the local population - in this case, Palestinian. Should they too be barred from participating in the paper's coverage?) What about correspondents covering India/Pakistan? Should we insist, as MJ suggests, that all reporters have no family or personal ties to the area they are assigned to cover? Obviously, that's no way to run a newspaper.
So, given that the notion of the reporter as a purely objective vessel exists only in an imaginary plane, where do we draw the line?
While I respect Hoyt and the thought process behind his "recommendation," I think Keller's response gets it pretty right. There are some situations that are clear cut (i.e., covering a business in which the reporter has a direct financial stake) and others less so. This is one of those situations where one has to consider the whole picture of the reporter and his body of work as well as the connections and determine whether the appearance of conflict is such that the reporter's fairness is called into question. Keller seems to have done that.
I'll admit to some built in bias myself. If the Times correspondent had a son in the Quassam brigades, I'd sure as hell be pretty concerned. But, as the arch evildoer points out, "[o]bjectivity does not exist without a reference to a community with shared experience." This means you're not likely to see a Marxist covering business news or someone who believes Israel should not exist as Jerusalem bureau chief. But within those fairly broad parameters of consensus, we strive to find those who can separate out their personal opinions and report the news accurately and fairly. Nothing I've read about Bronner (and I've read the criticisms from both sides) suggests he's not up to the task.
February 8, 2010 10:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Armchair, you are to trying to prove a value judgment. That is impossible.
The whole concept behind the "appearance of a conflict of interest" is the notion that things must appear fair, not that we must have faith that someone else says are fair.
We all make our own credibiltiy judgments. That is not for you or Bernard or Bill Keller to make for the rest of us.
February 9, 2010 9:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think this is the wrong discussion. I have no doubt that Bronner CAN be a fair reproter in principle despite being Jewish and married to an Israeli. Just as I am sure IF stone was a fair reporter about US politics despite being American. Keller and Hoyt harp about "the appearence of conflict of interest" as if the question of real bias cannot be even measured, and is anyway wrong because Bronner is such a superb and objective kind of guy. This is horsehit. This is like lynching somebody and then getting worked up about how it is important that "justice be not only done, but seen." The "appearance of conflict of interest" is a discussion only worth having when you are at least pretty sure the person's actual behavior is above reproach.
The question that must be asked first is "is he objective?" And he isn't. Amira Hass from Haaretz is immersed in Jewish and Israeli culture as every Israeli is, but in order to cover the occupation well she went to live in Gaza and learned Arabic and immersed herself in the culture and experience of the people on the other side. You will never read her repeating official Israeli propaganda as fact, as Bronner does. Nor does she merely recycle Hamas press releases to show the "Palestinian side." She covers by getting to know her subject and writing about what she understands to be the objective truth. That is objective journalism. That's what a good journalist would do. But not only Bronner doesn't do it, but the whole NYT editorial board would consider that unacceptable. Bronner's mission is to show things from a mildly US liberal/Israeli left perspective, and that is what he does very well. It has nothing to do with objectivity. It is a work of mostly recycling cliches and providing fodder for preconceived ideas about Israelis and Palestinians, based on the expectation that Israeli concerns are real concerns and Palestinian concerns are exotic spice to the coverage and Israeli propaganda is generally authoritative and the best for Palestinians is to obey American directives. If that's the point of departure then Bronner, an american Zionist Jews who buys into Zionism, takes Israeli bull for granted, and indeed took advantage of the privileges the state offers to Jews only, is the perfect journalist.
d.
February 9, 2010 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
"The question that must be asked first is "is he objective?"
Yes. What's perplexed me about this entire thread is that THIS question has never been addressed directly. Surely this is the question that counts--much more so than appearances.
I THINK, though I find Bernie's writing a bit dense, Bernie would say that Bronner is objective and therefore shouldn't be "lynched" based on appearances or the possibility of appearances.
Evil says he is not. Shouldn't an examination of his writings and methods ensue to prove the case one way or another--as far as these things can be proven?
February 10, 2010 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I'll admit to some built in bias myself. If the Times correspondent had a son in the Quassam brigades, I'd sure as hell be pretty concerned."
Isn't this, then, your own personal test case. You would accept a father of an IDF member, but you wouldn't accept the equivalent on the other side. Or what would the other side be for you?
Surely, the Qassam brigades exist within the broad consensus of parameters, if only because they are one side to the conflict. You can't have a truly broad set of parameters unless you include both sides to the conflict--yes?
Or maybe we'd have to choose a Hamas "regular" or something, rather than one of the splinter groups. And perhaps we'd reject a father with a settler son who goes out and kills Palestinian goats and beats up herders.
AG--don't get me wrong. I'm NOT piling on you; just trying to think this out.
February 10, 2010 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely. Josh Marshall was right in stating it so succinctly @ February 7, 2010 6:01 PM above.
Here's an example in the recent news: Father and son..
Need I say you can find many many other such stories in literature, history, legend and song through the agess.
Or do it this way: I think my own father and one brother would make lousy biased reporters about anything, but I'd trust two other brothers to be great objective ones, and I love them all.
I think you yourself might be getting too carried away with parsing all the reactions. It's just that IP issue is one of those that makes people paranoid nuts and lose normal sense, to look for conspiracy and ulterior motives everywhere there could possibly be some. The work is all you got because you can't read the writer's mind. Nobody here knows if Bronner hates what his son is doing or is proud of it or inbetween.
The father is not the son and vice versa, most of the time most of us realize that.
February 10, 2010 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
another example.
February 10, 2010 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bronner should continue in his assignment with his byline automatically followed by
Ethan Bronner's son serves in the Israeli Army.
.....as should have been the case already. Hoyt did the Times a service by forcing Keller to face this issue.
February 9, 2010 5:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I THINK, though I find Bernie's writing a bit dense, Bernie would say that Bronner is objective and therefore shouldn't be "lynched" based on appearances or the possibility of appearances. domain registration
July 15, 2010 3:51 AM | Reply | Permalink